To All,

I swear I was not going to say a word , but his my last words for I have read ,and read ,read this topic on Race, Racism for what is the purpose of this conversation to , but debate who or whom is red , white or yellow or who is being discrinated againist .A lot of what Mountain Ash has said in the above post is true , the Irish were discrinated againist when they came to this country and the Jews . What about age discrimation today ? What about the word "Black" if I am policially correct the word "Black" is no longer being used it is "African American " in this country today .Their are now in the New York City Ballet Co. in NYC that are African American today and The Radio City Music Hall in NYC who have in their Company African American . We were always taught that everyone has a right to an education either white , yellow or what color and a write to work . No matter what color they were . Now I grew up in the 60's the time of turbance in the South of Little Rock , I have seen all and heard it all , and guess I have long enough to do it .

I found this whole thread growing weary and tiring and don't see what purpose or reason . That is just my thoughts on the matter whether you agree or disagree . You don't have to . I am giving my thoughts like anyone else .

My curtian is closing down and I am finished .

Good night all and good luck ,

Renee

Thing is Rennee
a discussion is totally about sharing and learning.And you as someone who was "there" has a voice deserving of listening to.
Just as I with a UK Scotish background can add what I perceive is happening here.
Sharing my conclusions of society and how outsiders were treated.
Using witting testimony and not just value judgement.

Irish men changed their names to merge with UK residents.Learning how to ask for necessities without an accent.
Yet without the manpower the railways opening up the UK in the 1840's Britain would not have been prosperous.

Polish soliders airmen and navy did not "get" to march in the parade after WW2.A sad ommisoin.Think of Arhnam and how brave this army paratroopers were.
The list goes on.

To try (as I have here) to explain class in the UK.
It exsits.Its not dress sense or money or beauty ot fame.It is unique and mysterious.

Think of Lord the Flies by Golding.

As long as the conch shell was passed there was civilised discussion.
So we must adopt a virtual conch shell and share.

Either that or there is a self imposed (I include myself in this) censorship.And no forward movenment.
As Boomer women we have status..Grandchildren for many who do absorb what we say.Once written anywhere its in the ether.

You Rennee like everyone here has a voice..I want to hear what you say.

In my work as a lecturer I often saw how I was a faciliator.Allowing space and time for a topic to be absorb..have discussion and discourse and in a place of safety.
And if necessary pointing out when bounderies were breached.
This seldom happened..ground rules were discussed..noted and rewarded if kept.
I believe that is what Dotsie started.

Mountain ash

Mountain Ash...I so hear you...ignorance continues to be the boulder that blocks the path to enlightenment.

When I first came to Mobile I went to a local store (won't mention the chain)...I was at a jewelry counter and was waiting my turn to be served. A black man should have been next but the woman at the counter ignored him completely and waited on another customer. Patiently, the black main waited without showing frustration. The woman then turned to me and asked me if she could help me. I pointed to the man who had been waiting patiently and told her it was his turn...she looked put out but reluctantly approached him...with a half-hearted effort she asked him what he wanted...and then sent him to look at things at the end of the counter. She turned to me, rolled her eyes and said, "You know how they are." Stunned by her remark, I repliaed, "No, I don't know...How are they?" My tone let her know that I was not agreeing with her. I left immediately in search of the store manager. I spoke with her and she gave me an address to send a letter of complaint. Evidently the space the jewelry store occupied was leased and they couldn't do anything, but complaining customers could...I sent a long letter (probably too long) to the head of the co. and told them that I thought anyone who showed prejudice within customer service needed to be, in my view, fired. I was told I wasn't the first to complain about this woman and to be honest I haven't been back to that store. As I was leaving I did see the gentleman and told him how offended I was to see him treated the way the woman had treated him. He smiled and thanked me.
I just don't understand why people have to be this way.

my opinion

'...ism(s)' is/are labels given to [mis][pro]treatments of our fellow human beings.

I experience and observe '...isms' (plural) on these very forums, often... certainly not saying I'm not guilty of '...isming' of some sort, myself, at times.

The root of '...ism' is ignorance and a lack of understanding/remembering we are essentially the same in persons, and definitely the same in spirits...
The fertilizer for '...ism' is self.

my opinion

I agree, Gims. Racism is an ism and within one's personal power to change.

But Dee is also talking about a system.

Good for you, Dee, for complaining to the offending party, the boss and the offended party. The woman behind the counter can continue to be the way she is, because the system allows her to, until someone like Dee comes along and doesn't play along.

The woman behind the counter might even be a "religious" woman who professes to love her fellow human and doesn't think she's doing anything wrong (isn't "isming") because it has always worked for her. Prejudices and stereotypes are so ingrained that they often fly under the radar.

The real work is to be constantly aware of where our thoughts and behaviors _come from_ and constantly evaluate whether or not they're worth keeping.

my opinion

I was not referring to the post(s) of any particular member, but simply contributing what I believe.
BUT, 'systems' do not have thoughts, feelings or prejudices... people do.... it still boils down to (in my opinion):
"The root of '...ism' is ignorance and a lack of understanding/remembering we are essentially the same in persons, and definitely the same in spirits...
The fertilizer for '...ism' is self (adding: translate 'self ' to 'egoism')."
'....let it begin with me' might apply.

my opinion

DJ...you get me...thanks.

Gims...I respect your views and how you express them and appreciate always hearing your voice. Your voice is needed, too.

I think fear plays a lot into how people look/feel about anyone different to the depth that is within some of my in-law views. The trouble with a lot of the prejudice that I see here is that a lot of folks do not believe that we're the same...they see those they're prejudice against as inferior and below them. When intergration was forced into the white schools down here, the resentment they felt then is still carried on within them now (it's what I hear anyway when it's talk about)...some just will never get over what they experienced as teenagers and how they were taught by their parents...I believe hate and prejudice is taught and tolerated in order to breed...I think I've been quite a shock to my inlaws...here I come with the opposite beliefs and it's like trying to spit on an inferno...basically, has no affect. It's so sad...I can't change some folks' beliefs, but I don't have to be a part of them...I guess that's where I am trying to make a difference...albeit a small difference, it feels huge to me. Tomorrow is another day and hopefully, another chance to make a difference.

Thanks Gims and DJ

Appreciate your stance Dee and about the jewellery store incident where you did also tried to make a difference.

Most likely there are some folks who think it's useless whining and just doing nothin'....

Change is like a rippling brook, where the water will wear down old stones over time and water current will change and find its own way..around the stones. And water speed may suddenly burst into fury will shock/surprise when suddenly the water finds freedom... white water rapids. It takes skill (in advance) to see the anger, fury in advance and to ride those waters.

In response to dancer's comments about what did happen in the arts (ie. performing arts), there are ways not to just sit and whine away. After completing university, I got involved for 5 years on as a volunteer on producing a magazine on the arts, literature and social issues produced/written by Asian-Canadians. This was the magazine. (Notice the 80's style fashion.)
http://faculty.washington.edu/chanant/asianadian/

I learned so much ...while it did speak to artisitic expression of Asian-Canadian artists, over 75% of what I learned from those highly energetic activists, had nothing to do with race....but to do with:

a) community organizing & advocacy
b) developing partnerships with government policy makers
c) how to deal with the local media who report (yes, the exact topic we were all talking about,...the power of the press)
d) how to translate personal values in personal and collective action

It was a magazine that sucked up alot of our personal volunteer time, but we had over 300 subscribers across North America --over 50% were univerisities, government and libraries.

There are articles on concerns of Asian-Canadian women, immigrant, non-English speaking women, domestic violence in the Asian-Canadian communities and specific problems of language barriers..yes, feminist articles.

For those of you who are bored by this thread..then don't read. Don't learn.

Renee: Please remember that there are some topics don't interest me at all either. So I don't respond with any post. I don't waste time telling everyone else I'm tired of hearing about certain common problems...which I personally don't experience but many others in this forum do experience and want to share.

Just as an evolving person gains an extended identity as a development change does a nation and its citizens do this also.
in our birth home we pick up the "norms" there.Only when we venture further though school and education do we see other
opinions.
Then if we marry we join yet another "tribe" and set our own "norms"

There was a time we consider moving to New Zealand..chosing there due to the similarity to Scotland and the industry there.So in our case we wished to continue to keep to what we know.
If this theory exists then we are all evolving as the world changes.Both for the better (health improvment) and worst (conflict and war)
so we may be on a pendulumn.
But discussion and sharing opinions is one way of progress.It opens our eyes and ears.

Mountain Ash,
Good point. Of course the theory exists (There's a theory called "3rd culture building" that describes what happens when 2 people of different cultural backgrounds marry, but can also apply to friends and others).

Cultures are never set in stone but have been changing since forever.

And I absolutely agree about discussion and consultation. It's the _only_ way to progress, imo.