dj: thanks for explaining.

jabber: i think you are correct. i know a young person who was fearful and wanted to bolster up confidence and thought acting tough was the way to go.

I agree that one must confront their racism to get rid of it but I will NEVER admit that I have racism in my blood, and neither would anyone who knows me. I've spent my life fighting it, my son carries on after me.

Those are just the facts.

Also, I am not "white," I don't "pass," so I can't stand in judgement of those who are of any culture and hold myself higher. I, too, have had racism applied to me.

Chatty has been around a culture that does not allow for racism and I know she has none in her.

It's just the way it is. Anyone else, I just don't know about but I see racist statements being made on the forum again and again, leaving me a bit sick. I leave this subject because I can't see it going anywhere else but finger pointing at this time.

It's a shame, but I've always thought it was a shame.

Dancer, include me in no slights to anyone, I'm not the type. I may get angry at racism but I know its all about ignorance...

I want to make a comment about "diversity training" which has the potential of being quite destructive. The approach that is used in Maryland for teacher training, and the one that was used where I work, is the same approach I saw when I was involved in civil rights activities in the late 1960s -- i.e., it claims that everyone is racist, and everyone needs to own up and confess to everyone else in the circle. And if we don't admit it, it's because we're not aware of it. Kind of like Freudian psychotherapy that says all women have penis-envy. Someone conducts the workshop, and leads you through exercises designed to show how racist you are, and the facilitator presents him or herself as the one with insight who will guide you to self knowledge.

My doctoral work was in intercultural communication -- I have taught teachers in grad courses, many of whom complained about the "diversity training" they'd been involved in, and how it filled them with anger and resentment. They were relieved to find that my course was nothing like that. One reason so many of them were angry was that they'd found that only white people were accused of being racist and minorities were all innocent victims.

Yes, there is institutionalized racism that many are unaware of and it's not the same as bigotry -- it's the kind that presents what's _normal_ based on what those in the dominant culture do. It's the kind that says that black people are good athletes and entertainers and the most spiritual, that Asians are good at math, and that white men can't jump and don't have rhythm.

The underlying, unstated presumption is that humans come from different _races_ which are essentially different species, like cats are different from dogs, and each of the races has different strengths and weaknesses. This was a 19th century theory that has been discounted and disproved by almost every branch of science.

We learn these stereotypes. Among children, this "knowledge" starts to circulate at about middle school, when they start to understand their roles in life. Talk to black people who grew up with white friends, and then at about age 12, they're left out or called names. They didn't suddenly and magically change from being the same to being different.

There are many theories and much information that helps understand how the construct of race operates, but the diversity training approach is like a pop psychology approach, with a one-size-fits-all premise. I don't think it helps.

i don't know what specific kind of diversity training you are referring to. i am aware of several different models. sounds like a particular model may have been oppressive for some people.

i have had the experience of people having a hard time with some kinds of diversity training.

i personally am grateful so many people have worked so hard to put so many diversity training programs together. you can't really paint them all with the same brush.

also, i notice that most people are uncomfortable owning anything negative in themselves. as long as all problems are "out there" and the "bad" people are out there, we will not have understanding or peace.

i half-heard a quote the other day that was very interesting. i wish i had been paying attention because i will probably not get it right, but the gist of it is that some factions were fighting with each other and fighting with each other and fighting with each other, and killing each other, and blaming each other . . . and this went on for 800 days and then one day it stopped.

all it takes is consciousness and someone doing something different.

i was thinking about this because of the israel/palestinean conflict and it made me feel hopeful. i was thinking how it applies to racism and always seeing the other person as bad and oneself as good and moral. we all have the capacity for good and bad (is my belief). i have racist thoughts. i try to become aware and more tolerant and more educated. sometimes my ego takes over and i do not succeed. other days it is easier.

i find it interesting that there is such resistance around co-exisiting in peace, in general and i am personally very troubled and can become despondent about our world.

Look, a test of cross-cultural understanding (including mannerisms, inside slang of 2 different cultures)...is knowing when a good ethnic-specific joke is...just simply funny..if it is delivered by person, at the right time and place. And by a person who has experienced some of the crap.

Tell, me if you found any of the clips funny or just find the 2 videos unfunny/offensive. And remember we are grow-up gals, our ears can take this... (I bow to Dotsie if she feels strongly about this stuff.. Dotsie: Test this on your Korean children.)

Preamble:
This comedian of South Asian descent was raised primiarly in Canada in a surburb of Toronto. He's a real hit and many people of colour worldwide find him funny. He started off with comedy in Canada and moved beyond the borders. He is real from his jokes as an Indo-Canadian...but a white person could not tell particularily the Asian based jokes and get the same open reaction.

Comedy and satire...can be test of cross-cultural understanding and history of cultures....if you can "get" the jokes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Peters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Peters:_Outsourced

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/08/01/i...pes-ever-funny/

http://www.veoh.com/videos/e1560065DBTxsEp

And there are jokes about Italians, as well as Chinese and East Indians.

Well, I'm not Chinese or Italian (though I can speak Italian and lived in Italy) and laughed out loud in a few places. The Italian at the Indian buffet was great, and the saving a dollar on the 34.50 purse.

Have you ever seen Dave Chappelle? He gets mixed reactions from lots of people, white and black, and is much more over the top than Peters. But some of his stuff is pretty funny.

I'm a real sucker for stand-up comics, I must say. And Toronto is great for comedy -- after all, they've got a branch of Second City improv group (originally Chicago) which produced many of my favorite comics. When I went to Second City in Toronto I heard a lot of jokes about Americans which were hilarious.

I don't know that I'm uncomfortable owning up to anything negative within myself. But I try to avoid thinking negative thoughts, because that feeds into depression. Norman Vincent Peale's, "Power of Positive Thinking," teachings helped pull me out of a depressive state years and years ago. And I train myself to focus on the positive side of issues, when I can find a positive side. The old folks' sang, "Keep on the sunnyside." To me, That's sage advice!

DJ, I actually thought the skit that was the take-off on entreprenurial tendencies of the Chinese and East Indian was quite funny...and enjoy the humour, one does have to understand those cultures..to understand the enterprenurial/wheelin' dealin' tendencies that's embedded in those 2 cultures..

No I'm not familiar with Chappelle's stuff. And yea, Second City stuff is funny. I am not sure how many Americans laugh at jokes about themselves.

orchid,
I thought it was funny, but really wasn't aware of those descriptors (stereotypes?) I have a number of Iranian friends, though, who are probably similar to the Indians in their love for bargains.

Actually, I think a lot of the best humor is when we're made to recognize our weaknesses and failings and then laugh at ourselves. It's the recognition that makes it funny. I suppose most people think it's funnier if one of "their own" makes the joke rather than someone else. At spare moments, we look at stand up comedy on Comedy Central. My husband had a Mexican mother and was in stitches over Mencia's jokes about Mexican mothers. But I laughed too, because I met his mom and heard his stories. He was so amazed to hear the jokes because he could really recognize her.

Chappelle can be hard to take but he does make me laugh. He's all about racial stereotypes, both black and white.