Orchid,
A lot of this thread has been going over old ground for me. I have discussed racism so many times that I think I've heard it all.

What was new for me was to hear of your childhood and the evils of some people toward you. It is not excusable and I'm sorry for it.

Damn it! Will people ever treat otheres according to their merits? I dare say that you might have been a slightly different adult if you were treated with complete respect for your race and accepted everywhere? I believe you would.

Just know that again, my oldest friend is Chinese and her merits are high. I caer about her for who she is and always have.

Thank you for sharing.

Dancer

dj and dancer: we will just have to "agree to disagree" on the issue of hardwiring and sexual preferences. of course there are other factors that come into play (social, psychological, status, etc.) but i was specifically referring to the phenomenon that females tend to prefer dark haired males (not sure about skin) and the subconscious association with verility.

i am a little surprised that you don't think that most males prefer females that they subconsciously rate as "fertile." that's a lot of what biological sexual preference is about in the male/female dynamic. there has been quite a bit written about this. of course there are many exceptions . . . but i do think they are social or psychological trumping exceptions.

anyway, we disagree and life will go on!

I've read that too. It makes sense to me; it's part of nature; Survival of the strongest...

My point gets to the definition of what is a "human"? Part of nature, survival of the fittest... is that what we're about? Virility? Fertility? Are we simply biological urges? We have an animal side, it's true. Technically, and biologically, if you want to talk about urges, a human could have sex with anyone and anything, and some do.

I'm familiar with the types of studies you mention, seek and EW. There are many things that have much written about them that I also disagree with, many of which use biological "scientific" research to try to prove some theory or another about humans.

We also have a spiritual side. I think that the spiritual qualities we recognize in each other are like magnets, and have as powerful a draw as physical urges. I wouldn't call these "trumping exceptions" but basic attractions. Scientific research may be too much in its infancy to be able to do and publish studies on this.

Many scientists still think that spirituality is all about electrical impulses in the brain and that humans are a collection of stimulus-response reactions. These are the guys writing those studies, besides the fact so many of these studies are based on current practices among college students. Do they factor in the effects of advertising images and [censored] use?

Of course we can disagree, and everyone can continue to think what they want, but then what's the point of having a discussion?

DJ my post just happens to follow yours but what i am going to question is not directed soley at you, just making that clear.


poooowww some heavie reading last 10 pages as iv been away doing holiday stuff but ws intrested in this enough to keep reading AND IT BEATS DOING THE HOUSEWORK, LOL.

i LOVE A GOOD WE DEBATE AND DESCUSION (SORRY caps )

are we a little hostile in heer?

if so why?

i am open to being sighted as misreading posts put me straight if i have (not litralie lol) but i read a good few posts weer some people have been misquoted by a good few but diffrent people, over and over on between 1-5 seperate but related areas or subjuect.

they weer misquoted every time, insulted once or twice and i can't see the reason within what they have written.

Iv read explinasions several times but the misquoting continued.

I just wanted to point this out in case something is going on i am not aware of thats not printed heer in this descusion BUT reading this descusion it looks strange and ALMOST as if someone is being picked on. Is that the case?

Just an observasion as to how it looks from the outside.

Id prefare their not to be an open descusion about this but perhapps some self-reflexion might be required.

in saying that, im fallen out with no- one or am i thinking bad about anyone

just wonderring why so many loaded guns.

plz don't throw vegtables at me now.

if i am wrong then opps i should have hushed up

research to try to prove some theory or another about humans.

yea and i am sure you noticed how singulare a or any theory is to explain anything.

but it is part of sintifik methodologie to have left one part of a therie to explaine whats been observed or the point of the experimental desine.

Just my oppinion :its my very gripe with sciense that makes sciense sciense, if thats clear.

trouble with therie aswell they often can't contend with a multileveled approch to things or behaviour. Almost as if one sub part being right would natralie disqualifie the other as being not right. which is what sciense dose, in effect.

In its defense, Whear would we be without sciense or therie for that matter.

i do get frusterated as hell with sciense and therie despite my love for it but i think we can all acknolige its limitasions, grumble and get on again with it lol.

When we know we'r all far to complicated, (anyone of us) for to be catigorised and sumerised by any one experiment or therie.

behavorists verses cognativists, verses klienian verses fraudian psychodynamics. Its just a big battle of the theries lol.

pitie therie and sciense can't handle recgonise multidemensional explinasions about things. goodness the very fabrik of existanse would ripp apart lol :p

In my owen experinse i do try to be "concsiouse" as i can be about it all or about all of me, but anyone rember the last few weeks of pregnancie? Id have ripped heads of off sholders if i thought anyone would have harmed me thefore my child. Hormonilie i think i was just being primed to give birth and protect that life. In all honestlie i never felt any thing so strong in my life. So id say ther was something in biological explinasions to certine stuff.
I dibn't ripp anyone head off so thank god for the cereable cortex, so i have consiousness not to do to those i considered as threats.

that old "primale brains" still at the core of all that cortex and i do think it has some influenses over us in dailie life and our consiousness is influensed by culture, learning what theries we read (lol) and our abilitie to be self reflexive in life.

so maybe attractivness is more to do with assumptions on fertilitie or fertilitie markers and survival of fitness than we'd belive or id like to belive anyway.

anyway just to contradict my owen self and for fun can anyone use the genetic and fertilitie explinasion to explain why some women also prefear young attractive curvie females? :P

when thers certinlie no reproduction being done in that case.

see the trouble with sciense and an one explinasion for us ALL type of stuff.

anyway is so late i gotta run right now to pick the child up from the school, chat to ya all later

Once again you grab the bull by its horns, Celtic. You are a delight.

Yes, that is true...where is the fertility attraction with homosexuals? Hmmm...guess that takes care of the other generalization.

I mentioned Roland Burris because IMO Gov. Rod Blagojevich
had a moment of genius when he appointed Burris. Gov. B knew
what kind of uproar would ensue. And it did. I guess they're
gonna let Burris activate his senate seat, with the condition that he doesn't run for a second term. But I bet Gov. B. was laughing at all the fuss. I don't think Burris's race is a factor. But I think Gov. Blagojevich's audacity is a riot. That's all!

celtic ... you are a breath of fresh air. such a charming soul. charming. your energy is so fun, no matter what the subject. it's a gift, for sure.

dj: the comment about "agreeing to disagree," is just to say that we all have different opinions and beliefs and i would hope there would be space for them all to be heard and respected.

i like friendly debate.

i think all of us, myself included, get very attached to our beliefs. are they just mental constructs or "knowing?" we act as if it is "knowing," and again, this goes back to the problem of people thinking they are right and then fighting to the death.

i just want to be able to say, "i disagree with you," but i do not wish to harm you," and hopefully the sentiment can be returned.

i also hold the view that humans are born with a certain wisdom and that all should be honored, no matter what their education or experience.