It's so hard to know what to say, but it's easy to pray for you.

Checking in to see how you are today...

And the prayers are the most powerful thing you could provide...I am blessed beyond my capacity to express!

Today is better...

Hej mama red.. you´re kinda all over the place here that´s cool..it´s just that it´s difficult to put it all together..probably my little brain at this point in time..if he´s thinking divorce..I think you should see the red flags waving in your face..but then in another thread you mention that he wants to give it a try..he has seen the light..and, I believe, that this revelation came after his divorce thoughts..just trying to put it together for me and for you..girl, he might be playing you..don´t loose track of what YOU YOURSELF want out of life and a relationship.

We women seem to hang on to every word that the man says..and don´t seem to hang on to what we want and dream of..we don´t see the signs..written on the wall..very often the man says what he actually means..but we don´t hear him...because we sooo want a loving, maybe eutopian relationship. My humble advice to you is..watch the signs..the true signs..HEAR what he is saying..

BUT..these are my humble thoughts only..and nothing else. OK?

Read your different threads..you think differently in each of them..very interesting..hmm..

It took me about 15yrs to divorce my husband..after 32yrs of marriage..5 kids and the death of our oldest when she was 11..so I am no expert or perfect lady..but would perhaps like to give you the benefit of my many years of pain and submission to something I didn´t really believe in..SEE THE BARE TRUTH.whatever it is for you..Listen to what he is saying..men are very pragmatic..they actually say what they mean ..don´t listen to your dreams and wants..HEAR EVERYTHING he is saying..there is truth there. Or so I think and I am not all knowing, by any means..seriously.

All my love

Ladies

I'm sobbing so hard right now...reading your words, hearing your hearts, feeling the "Lift" of your arms raising me up when I feel like I can't go on is the most amazing of gifts. I've spent so much of my life trying to be strong for others that the script to "let go and let God" has been a tough one for me. I've felt I "Had" to be strong, hold up others, be there for others to be an OK person and not be a "taker". To have reached out and be accepted as less than perfect, broken, hurting, and in agony is beyond amazing, simply beyond amazing.

One of these days, maybe I'll learn to surrender first...or not.

I once read a book that talked about "Sarah's Circle" describing how women follow a circular route (as opposed to walking Jacob's ladder) and how we instinctively form circles around others, holding each other up, comforting, supporting, whatever is needed. That is the unique gift of women...to nurture and care for. And I've only recently accepted being female, railing against that "horrible fate" (grin, a lot of damn good that does, eh?) for 50 years. That is one of the things that made this so hard...I had only recently walked through that valley and stepped into acceptance.

Thank you for being my Sarah's Circle. I posted an update in another forum today...not knowing quite sure where to put it.

Short version: he broke down in my arms last night, apologizing for all the pain he had put me through. Your prayers got through, God spoke to his heart. I have no illusions that there are many things to work through and, in some moments, I wonder ...this is the second time for this, will it happen again. Then I catch myself and realize that thinking will not lift us into the vision I carry in my heart.

Hi Humlan

You're right...it IS all over the place. I wasn't sure where to place the update. And am sure I am not making a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing your experiences, your beautiful kind heart, especially in the midst of all you're experiencing right now.

And you're right about reading into every word...guilty! Ever so guilty. I keep forgetting they really are simple...he has said that and I haven't listened and am trying to now. I am, for better or worse, an extremely deep thinker (my mom says too much so at times!) and he is, when not under extreme stress, a lighthearted joyous man.

So, we will see what happens next. I will continue to walk forward, knowing I'm being lifted up. Knowing I deserve my dreams too. And we'll see if we kind find the "meshing" of those dreams again. I do know I can't keep fighting, which is why the act of surrender yesterday was so big for me. And will continue.

I do know I've started the rewrite...who knows what the ending will be!

Yes, Dotsie, I did tell my son and he was hurt for me. We have always been very close. We had reached the point of whether we would stay together in Chicago, move to Indianapolis or he would move to PA to be near his best friend and his father's family.

He has made the decision to move to PA, and I was sad. Not just because of not having him around ... because he is moving to be near a woman he has loved for the last 3 years AND who has walked into, and out of his life. He hasn't had the best relationship model to follow and my prayers are that this will not hurt him as it has so many times before.

He had just started a job (working at Target) and within 3 months had received a small promotion. It would help bring some stability to his life if he would stay...and that is not my choice, it is his. My mom was ready to help him fund a studio apartment or something like that so he could stay here AND continue building on his current successes.

So, the wheel turns.

humlan, I'm sure you realize, as the rest of us do, this is not a cut and dried type of thing. The pendulum can swing so wide, picking up momentum as it does, and sometimes stopping at the most unpredictable places. 'All over the place' is par, IMO, as each party goes through a full-scaled swing of emotions, thoughts, determinations, possibilities and probabilities, visions, and so on... which would include considering the mutual and contra thoughts, emotions, determinations, etc. of the partner... add to that the families of both.

Mama Red, as mentioned above, hubby is going through his own H-E-double toothpick. I'm glad you are open to that. The moment he let the D word slip off his tongue might have been a point where re-consideration began. Our aging brains (the thinking part) sure goes through a lot, thinking and re-thinking what is, what might have been, what could be - none of which is cemented in actuality. If we embrace that (so hard for me to do) the knowing that life is a perpetual teeter-totter (sometimes teetering more than tottering, or vice versa), or a constant tug-o-war, we can adapt more readily. I'm one that wants the teeter-totter to be still and steady... even with the complete understanding that it wasn't built for that.

Hope I haven't gotten out of line by saying some of this, but if we don't share completely, what worth do our individual thoughts have. Mama Red, and others, you know just how messed up I am !!! That doesn't take me away from being here for any of you - trust me on that, please. Lining through because this isn't about me.

PS. You mention being "scared"..OH, I bet many of us can relate to that feeling when eveything is falling to pieces around us..our relationship and marriage, to be exact. But, you know, Mama Red.. we women are able to do sooo much..you won´t be left high and dry.. you will learn how to cope..you have been coping all these long years! You have seen to it that your family and relationship has survived..that in itself requires alot of strength and energy and know how. It is your spouse that hasn´t been able to appreciate your powers..retire into your own little cave..it is not the exclusive place of men..we, women also have caves to go to..and think for ourselves..and determine what we want out of the life span that remains to us..you will find your footing..with the help of your close friends and the resources that you DO have within you..Perhaps you will decide to stay with your man..ok, more power to you both..but don´t let this decision kill the woman that you are inside..IF that be the case..and that only YOU can answer!

I had to leave to find myself..to love myself..have faith in myself..and so..learn to truely love my fellowman/woman..without judgement..but rather to give those around me wings to fly because I gave myself space to fly. Do you understand me at all..not because I am so deep, but rather because I don´t have the words to explain properly . You have son that you mention..themost important thing you have to give to him..is the wings to fly..and the belief he needs in himself as a man and individual. My youngest child..also a son..thanks me today for giving him the freedom to be himself and to love life and himself..what more can you ask for as a mother? He can now give his love for life to his sister and niece that are going thru a nightmare in this life. He gives them the courage to go on..and love life despite all the pain that life serves up to them. Do you understand me?

In this world/life..all we can really do is give our loved ones the courage to follow their dreams..whatever they are..and give them fertile soil to plant that which is they themselves. Why? because there is so much negativity in our current world..that kills and brings on cold and selfishness. We don´t have to comprehend all that is happening in this generation..but we should give this generation trust in their competence and in their life force..The Prophet says that we cannot go forth into the future..that is for our children..and we should have the humility that allows them to go forth..

Ok..this was much more than I wanted to write..take it for what it is..one woman´s voice on this forum..

Hugs

Gims love..I think your reaction is due to the fact that we haven´t been able to air our thoughts and fears and doubts on this forum about the forum...be that as it may

I meant no ill will to Mama Red..and I don´t think you would have questioned me about this at another time on this forum..but we have been pushed..some of us..to hide away our thoughts..sooo you DON`T KNOW ME!!!

I am glad that Mama Red aired her thoughts in different threads..I urged her to put it all together,,for her sake..did you read that,too? If I sound angry..it has nothing to do with you..I think your doubts about me in this case..have to do with the situation on this forum at this time. There are many quiet voices at present who I would normally call upon for help and clarification..

But we are where we are..and so I am tryig to explain to you that i urged MamaRed to read all her threads..for her sake.. I am totally serious about this.There are many facets to the human being...I know this. I am born and bred and educated as a psychologist..and I revere the many facets of US.

Do you understand me, gims??

humlan, you misunderstood my post... the main point I was making was that a predicament like this can be expected to go-all-over-the-place. I spoke directly to you only because you pointed out that it did. I look on you as a caring, understanding, very intelligent woman, with a great deal of life experience to be shared with others. You can be mad at me and yell if you wish. I don't care to go there. I had no ill will in my post.