I have some major concerns about my youngest children ages 15 and 16.
I have written about my eldest son for a while now and the challenges he has created for not just me, but my children.

Family background. My children have a father who was an alcoholic, his mother and her mother both were. Both grandpa's on my ex- husbands side committed suicide. My ex's father did when my eldest was 9 years old.


My children's father to my knowledge does not drink now, but when we were all together as a family he did and was abusive to myself and my eldest son. I saw the writing on the wall and left with all three children when the youngest was still in diapers. It was a a very difficult situation and I had to get a restraining order until my ex got into anger management. He also went to AA. He now lives with someone and they have a 6 year old. They also have mental health issues as the women my ex lives with has a schizophrenic sister and it appears her youngest daughter age 11 has it too. She has now sexually abused her younger brother (my ex's child, my kids half brother)

My youngest two have had to deal with a lot but don't mention it. Seem to take it in their stride. My son is angry and at least deals with it by working out and playing rugby, a tough sport. My daughter I believe deals with it internally which is common for girls. It must be so difficult for them to have to deal with the fact that their brother is a drug addict. And now all of the trauma with what their little half brother has to now deal with. My daughter babysits him. Other then that neither of them see their Dad much. He is quite selfish and is always having some crisis of some sort. He also travels away for work and isn't around much.

My concerns are well founded as both my two children are losing interest in school. Both of them sleep in and are always late, which results in them missing the first class of the morning. I can't seem to get them up and going. I'm wondering if I am not being understanding enough considering what they have to deal with. I know I am a basket case a lot of the time each time my son relapses or goes to jail. This is very hard on them too. I just want them to do well and am worried that they are slacking off. I am tired of nagging them. I get up early and spend my morning trying to get them to school. It's a battle that I am very tired of.

My daughter was and could be an "A" student but she doesn't try. My son has ADD and struggles in school so focuses on the sports and not the academics. Neither of them have ever been in trouble and to my knowledge done drugs but you never know. I do know that my daughter has been out a couple of times and came home smelling of alcohol. Both of them may have tried pot as the majority of kids do. Other than the sleeping in they are good kids.

What should I do about the school? Begging, nagging, taking the computer away, none of this works. My kids tell me I only focus on what they don't do not what they do. They say, at least we go to school. (their older brother dropped out in grade nine)

Just needing some advice around this from others. They refuse to get counselling.

Should I just try to keep encouraging them and stop nagging? I am really worried that they will not pass this year.

Kate

I don't have children, Kate. So I can't say a whole lot. I just have memories what I did want so much from my parents (like we all probably did) when they got overly critical:

Validation of the best things about myself.
Already your kids are asking the same from you (based on their remark that at least they are going to school).

Glad to hear that your son plays rugby and hope he continues to engage in some sort of sport that he likes.

What does your daughter naturally seem to like/do best? What are her hopes for herself in the next few years?

My daughter is taking hair dressing at school as part of her high school courses. It gives students a chance to try on a career and counts as credits. She has two classes in the morning and she loves it. But, not enough to get her there on time. Her teacher tells me she will only get to go to a good salon for learning experience time if she shows up everyday. She knows this but continues to be late.

My youngest is really into athletics. I think he likes the male bonding especially kudo's from the coach. He craves male attention and rightly so. I am so glad he has this outlet. He is driven, but not driven to do well academically. He thinks he can skip this part. I keep telling him school counts too, but he ignores me. I know he hears it from the teachers as well. He thinks he can get away with it. Or, he thinks he has lots of time.

My daughter is a gifted artist. She is not doing much now but occasionally comes up with a great sketch. I try to encourage her but maybe not enough.

It is so easy to be critical, why is that. I only do it out of concern but I need to remind myself to give praise too.

Kate

Kate said: "It is easy to be critical, why is that?I only do it out of concern but I need to remind myself to give praise too."

Kate, it sounds like you have partially answered your own question. Why not ease off them entirely for say 30 days. Let them do whatever they want as far as school is concerned etc. Take a mental health, stress break for yourself. Nothing will happen in 30 days to end the world as you know it. Back off and OFFER ONLY PRAISE for the good they do.

See what happens. They are going to grow up, mentally mature all in good time and will most probably be very nice, normal people. Nothing you say or do at this stage of their lives that only causes grief for you all, will change anything.

Its hard to just step back, but it does work usually. Think of them as other peoples children, we somehow seem to understand other peoples children more than we do our own...Why is that I wonder?

Leave them wondering Kate, "who is this woman and what has she done with our mother?"

Hi Kate

I'm soooooo sorry all this is piling in on you...it makes it tough to parent with all that other stuff going on, doesn't it? I do understand some of it (although not all)...my kiddo (now 21) is ADD, had a horrible time in school with homework, although he is tremendously bright, and came home at 13 and said "I want to run out in front of a car". Whew...tough stuff this parenting thing, isn't it?

And when we're struggling with things like exes, drug addictions, working, etc., it is even tougher.

I know it might be hard to do what Chatty Lady suggested AND I think it is a fabulous idea...for you and for them. It has been my experience that we are as tough on others as we are ourselves and we tend to take responsibility for everything our kids do...both these amazing blessings may need to have some of the natural consequences of not doing the things you want them to do...like not getting into the best college or sports program.

What could you do, that would be in integrity for you, to encourage those things you want to happen and set aside, temporarily, those things you don't want to happen (unless they endanger their lives, of course)? And, while you're at it, how are you treating yourself these days? Well, I hope...giving yourself lots and lots of kudos for all the things *you* are doing well...or at all! Since things have been so tough, I wouldn't be surprised if you're being tough on yourself sweetie. No?

If you were raised, in any way shape or form, like I was, praise wasn't the thing to do. It would *spoil* the kids and make them irresponsible. What "voices" do you hear when you think of focusing on praise/gratitude vs. when you give criticism? That is often a clue as to what is happening inside you. And we are, all of us, products of the environment we were raised in.

If there is anything I can do to support you...or you want me to simply take my advice and jump off a short pier, do let me know!

This may not be encouragement...and my son is now realizing how much his previous choices have affected his current opportunities. It is tough, really tough, to hear his dreams and know he has some "making up" to do to get there. he is MUCH more responsible than he was before and it is so kewl to watch it happen...although I wasn't sure if it ever would.

Well your right about upbringings. My Mom still nags me often about my parenting skills, like she nagged me when I was young. Always pointing out what I don't do instead of what I do. I was never praised as a child as she thought it would inflate my ego. I remember her saying "who do you think you are" her comments broke me down. My self esteem suffered for it big time.

I hear you MamaRed and Chatty loud and clear. I don't want to hurt my kids self esteem. I do praise them quite a bit though and when they were small I went overboard with it as I didn't want to be like my Mom. Just lately with the school thing I've been on their case quite a bit. I will back off, just point out the good things and stick to positive comments offering praise and avoiding negative comments.

Kate

Kate, I feel with you and know that the school time can be nerve racking. I went through that with my sons as well.

Neither of my boys went to college. That was something unthinkable for me. I wish I had spared myself all the grief I went through…because if I could have peeked into a looking glass I would have seen that they have made their way in life and are happy and successful where they are at.

But still there are different grades of school neglect. Just not going or too late to class should not be accepted. Maybe your son’s coach could have a good heart to heart talk with him. How about if he had a goal, like studying sports, as a sport manager ( great profession) or becoming a college coach.

How about visiting a museum with your daughter. Get talking about art, and all the different professions that go along with it; Like art teacher, museum director, owning an art boutique, and so on.

I wish my parents had done that with me. I was unmotivated, because I saw no goal or dream job ahead of me. I’m still the same way. I need a goal in order to work hard.

Have you any of your daughters sketches on display? IF not then putting one in a clip frame
may be that if you re arrange a room and an obvious place for a picture "presents" itself. also pictures in a collage of their earlier times when life seemed less worrying.could be an ongoing project that you leave on a table where both children may recall those times as they go about.they may not sit with you...to do a collage (unlikely at that age.)but feel good at your love showing in this way.
Does your daughter do you hair? another way to bond.

I have met many teenagers who were swwitched off with school and then returned to vocational training..after a break.Lifelong learning is gained in many ways.and often a break allows them to gain a wider picture .
Mountain ash

Hi Kate

I thought that might be the case...it was definitely the accepted approach when I was growing up (I'm 51). To this day it surprises me when my mom says some form of "good job". I know it came out of her upbringing and her love for me...still does. I remember coming home with lots of As...and a B or two. The first comment was always on what I hadn't done! That definitely does a number on the old self esteem, doesn't it! To this day I have challenges thinking anything I do is "enough"...it has be a reprogramming process for me to get over that!

I wish you all the best and I'm sure all of us with kids know the angst you're going through. I've yet to meet a parent who doesn't have some regrets about their kids, how they raised them, what they said to them, etc. Not the easiest job in the world, is it?

Lots of hugs winging their way to you...and please do be kind to you. You deserve it you know!

I have my daughters artwork hanging up around the house. Her school had an art show and one of her paintings was displayed.

I plan to take her to an art college in Vancouver for a tour. It's called the Emily Carr (famous Canadian artist) Art Institute. I'm sure this will motivate her. I have loads of art books around the house and painting supplies as I love to paint too but continue to put it off. hmmmmmm......not a great message on my part.

It's a tough time for kids, I know she wants a boyfriend as she hasn't really had one. She is a beautiful girl and I'm not just saying that because I'm her mother. She did go on a date the other night with a boy she just met.

I guess with all of the pressures, dating being one of them it can be a real struggle being a teenager. I remember it well. Both of them are really good kids in so many ways so I am not going to nag them. From now on I will try to inspire them. That may be a better approach.

Funny how we often turn into our parents, not wanting to but the old voices are still there in the background.

Kate

All any of us can do is our very best! It sometimes seems that no matter what we do, or don't do, "we're dammed if we do, and dammed if we don't!"

My sainted (oh yes she was and she said so) grandmother once said to me when my first son was about a year old...

"Always treat your children as if they were your closest friends. Would you speak to a friend like that?"

There were many times too when I was about to say something unkind to one of them and that thought popped into my head. It really does work...

kate, here's a way out thought. Are they in the right kind of school for them at this time? My daughter has ADHD and a learning disability. She was in the public school system through fifth grade and it was tough on her. The class sizes were too big to get the attention she needed, and the style of teaching didn't suit her.

In fifth grade, she shadowed in a very small private school for kids with LDs and ADD, and show loved it. They required two days of shadowing. After the second day, she woke up to go to her regular school, and asked if she could go back to Valley that day. Unfortunately, she couldn't. She had to wait until the next school year. She then attended Valley (which merged with Jemicy and is now Jemicy) through 12th grade. She's now in her third year of college, another small school, and is hanging in there, having her best semester yet. Her teachers are aware of her LD and they work with her. She learned to advocate for herself very young, which is a gift in itself.

Our youngest son was also in public school and was hardly learning a thing. We chose to put him in another school with smaller classes, but it was extremely structured and he didn't like it. He wanted back in the public school because he felt comfortable there. We allowed it. The public high school had a incredible art program, one of the best in our state. He flourished in that program due to the teachers believing in him.

My point is that if there are other options for schools, you might see if they're interested. I'm not sure what the school system is like there, but ours has a high school for kids interested in the arts. Is it possible they're in the wrong school?

Hope things work out well for you and kids, Kate.

Do you have a digital camera..your daughter would benefit especially during her non-artsy, lazy times of her life...from just simply observing her world more sharply and taking photos.
It would be a great, effortless way for her (and cost no money to you other than camera)to keep her skills sharp on composition and colour.

I know my own family appreciates that I do have a natural fast eye to compose photos quite well. I have been asked and provided my happy services as a free photographer for several weddings at friends and family.

And those photos will provide a library later..to inspire her for artwork.

Oh Kate, the book's in the mail.

Dotsie, my daughter's school is not the best. It's our area high school but it's quite alternative. In one way it's good because it is quite artsy and they let kids be who they are. It's very accepting of differences and a good program for kids with ADD.
The problem is they go overboard by catering to the kids and in my opinion, there is a real lack of disipline. If the skip or are late there are no consequences. She did think about changing last year but only has one more year after this and wants to graduate with her friends. Also she is quite happy with the hair dressing program.

My son changed schools this year because he wanted to go to a "better" more challenging school. He is really into athletics as I mentioned and the moral at his old school (my daughters) is really low. They didn't have enough players for the school rugby team and at his new school there are too many players. There is a down side to his school too as it is very preppy, lots of rich kids with cars and attitudes and we are low income. It works for him though and every school has it's good and not so good points. The sports are great, but he avoids doing homework and getting his assignments done.

I am working on starting an art group with my brother in-law. Art runs in the family. I think I will be able to get my daughter excited about this.

She does have a camera and takes thousands of photos. She has a great eye for it. Her friend has even had some of her photos on Jones Pop bottles so is an inspiration to her.

I'm going to work on inspiring them and finding opportunities to praise them and let go of the nagging.

Kate

I should have known you already had them in the best schools. You are such a great mom. Don't ever forget that.

When jocks around here act up, it's their coaches that snap them back into shape. Perhaps his coach could give him a little pep talk?

What are Jones Pop bottles?

Best of luck with your new encouraging plan. I'm cheering for you!

Jones pop bottles are popular here in the West. I think it is a Seattle based company. They are a pop company like Coke only much smaller. The bottles are old fashioned glass and they have really cool photos on the bottle as part of the label.

Yes, I'm thinking of calling the coach.

I went to a really good meeting tonight and will go every Monday. Parents like me with adult children who are addicts. This is a support group and the topic tonight was how to say NO.

It is always helpful to be with people who don't judge and are going through similar circumstances and I mean similar.

Kate

Kate, so glad to hear you got back to your meetings. Good for you for taking care of yourself!

Hi Dotsie,
Received the book today. Thanks so much. It is just what I need. The writer is describing many of the situations that relate to me. I had to go out of town this week for my job and managed to read a few chapters.

My son called me from jail this morning asking for money. Said he will get out soon and wants to go to yet another center. Not a treatment center but a place where they are strict and teach them life skills. Treatment is part of the program but not all. The program is $22,000 dollars. It can be subsidized but they need $500 up front. It is a program I told him about before but he said no way he'd go. Now he wants out of jail so has agreed to go. He also sent me a letter asking for the money and also a list of things he will need. It's like deja vu all over again. "I need pants, shoes, shirts", " I need, I need, I need" etc. I just bought him all of this stuff before his last trip which was only a month ago and all of it is gone. This happens all the time as he either sells his stuff for drugs or loses it. He has been to 10 treatment centers, and I'm embarrassed to say, I have bought him clothes, paid for his transportation etc. etc. every time. It never ends.

I told him I will not be giving him money or buying any clothes this time around and I hope he finds a way to manage. The book helped me to see how my doing things for him does not help him. It is also putting me in the poor house and I am already there. Have been for years. I can't even afford to support my other two kids most of the time yet I have given money to him.

I guess you'd call the book a wake up call. I will tell people about it in my group. Is it available in Canada? It should be if not as it would be a help to many of us Moms (Dad's, family members) that do too much. We think we are helping but we are not.

Thanks again. I will update you as I read more. It has already helped me to be stronger. I like her style of writing, she speaks to the reader in a way that sinks in right away.

Kate

Kate, I'm sorry this has gone on for such a long time. I'm not a parent, but I was a drug using adolescent. Now, I did not go to jail, and I did go to school. But my grades slipped the last 2 years because I could not concentrate (Had PTSD) Now, my question is this: how do your children refuse to go to counseling? I did not know children could refuse. I wonder there are school social workers, and/or school psychologists. And you said you were embarrassed as to the ways and number of times you helped your oldest son (I'm paraphrasing.) I don't think there is anything to be embarrassed about. I wonder if your younger ones resent your oldest for all the time, money, and energy he takes from you, and away from them? My goodness how far can you be stretched? And I was wondering about the sexual abuse, are you saying an 11 year old girl abused her younger brother? My goodness you have the world on your shoulders. Can I ask what book you are talking about? I wish you peace of mind. PL

The book is the one Dotsie sent to me called "Setting Boundaries for your adult children"
It's all about how we as parents often do too much for our kids and keep them dependent.

My other two children (teenagers) do not resent me for helping my son. But, they do want me to stop helping him. They are tired of the scene as he continues down the path of self destruction. They love their brother and are hurt by his behaviour.

As for counselling my youngest son did see the school counsellor for a year. When it comes to teenagers, you cannot force them to go to counselling. Well, I guess you can but they won't participate so there wouldn't be much point.

Children/teens have to want to seek help. They find it embarrassing. It's kind of like making someone go to treatment when they don't want to go. They will just close down and be there in body but that's about it.

The 11 year old is my ex's girlfriends daughter. She is abusing the son that they have together. Or at least she has. A social worker is involved and I believe that she was abused by either her father or someone in the family and she is acting out. I find this situation unfortunate as I can't shield my children from the situation.

I try to keep the communication open so they can feel free to talk about it or anything else.
Kate

Kate, I have been following and praying for you and your family.
I will add the 11 yr old to my prayers also. So sad.
Please tell us more about the book as you read through it.

Hi Kate, thank you for taking the time to explain some of the situations to me. As for sexual abuse, not all who abuse have been abused however, when it comes to an 11 year old, she learned that behavior from someone. So no doubt she was abused. It's good that a social worker is involved. You must be at wit's end, at the end of wit's end. I'm glad there is a book that you find helpful.

Kate, I'm so glad to hear the book is helping. Allison Bottke is the author. I correspond with her occasionally. I'm going to tell her what you've said here. I'm sure it will make her feel good to know her experiences, her words are helping others. That was her intent. Please stay strong!

OMG Anne, what an a** he was to do such a thoughtless thing to you. Some people should never be allowed to be parents, especially those who haven't a nurtuing bone in their body.

I adored my mother BUT followed my father around like a puppy dog, and he taught me all the things a man teaches his son. I am very handy around the house. You see my brother was epileptic from age 4, and my mother babied him all the time and he was more like a little girl than I ever was. I guess my dad made me into his son is some ways. He use to brag to his buddies, how good I was at fixing things or just figuring out how to do it. That meant everything to me!

Isn't it interesting how we describe our relationships with our fathers? I wonder if they would describe them the same way...

I'm going to a talk tonight put on by the hospital. It is with a very well known addictions doctor who has written many books on the topic.

I am also going to write a letter to my son explaining that he is basically on his own from now on. I will be here for him as his Mom, but not as his Number #1 Enabler.

I hope to get some feedback from my support group as I am thinking long and hard before sending this letter. As he is in jail he is a captive audience.

I have always sent him letters of support in jail as I feel it's difficult enough to keep a positive attitude so that is why I am wanting to really think long and hard about how to word this letter.

It has to be done though as he will get out eventually and I want him to know that my home is never going to be an option (for him to come back to) and that there will be no more money coming his way.

He is the one that makes these very negative choices, and I am not going to help him to continue in this. I can't make him change, but I can decide for myself if I want to help or not. And, I no longer want to help.

The days of feeling sorry for him are over.

Along with this wonderful book sent by Dotsie on setting boundaries with your adult children, I am also reading a book by Dr. Phil. I don't watch is show but the book he wrote quite a few years ago called "Life Strategies" is very helpful. I picked it up at a second hand shop. This book really hits home with me. It's all about taking responsibility for your life choices. Basically your life is the way it is because of your choices. Only your adult life of course as we can't do much about our childhood. I have been going through this book with a yellow highlighter pen.

Just a few of the lines I've highlighted:

" Life is a journey; as with any other trip, if you don't have a map and a plan and a timetable, you will get lost.

On being a victim (my son)
" By convincing yourself that you are a victim, you are guaranteed to have no progress, no healing, and no victory"

Choice:
"Everything we do is a choice, you CANNOT not chose, even not choosing is a choice"

There are many more. I love this book and encourage anyone who wants to make changes in their life to buy it. ( a little plug for Dr. Phil. You may not like his show, I'm working so can't watch it, but he is an excellent writer.

Kate

Kate, I admire your strength and your insistence or doing what is right. As you know, I pray for you all the time. One of these days your son will see the light.

Thanks Chick,
I pray for everyone on here too. It's such a great group but we all have our issues don't we.
Kate

Kate, you go girl. Glad to hear you are making some decisions regarding your son. I'm sure it won't be easy, but it will be worth it in the end.

Glad to hear Dr. Phil's book is helping. Many years ago, I attended a lecture at our chruch. It was the first I'd heard about life beign a choice. I'll never forget it. It really hleps you take charge of your life. When we're aware of the choices we make, it causes us to be more responsible for our own actions. There's no room for being a victim when we make our own choices.