Humlan, you're right. This says it all.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=jBE-lE7g3Rg&feature=related
Eve of Destruction
> P.F. Sloan (1965)
> The eastern worl', it is explodin’
> Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
> You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
> You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’
> And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’
> But cha, tell me, over and over and over again, my friend
> Ah, you don’ believe, we’re on the eve of destruction.
> Don’cha unnerstand what I’m tryin’ to say
> Can’t you feel the fears I’m feelin’ today?
> If the button is pushed, there’s no runnin’ away
> There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave
> Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy
> And ya, tell me, over and over and over again, my friend
> Ah, you don’ believe, we’re on the eve of destruction.
> Yeah, my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’
> I’m sitting here just contemplatin’
> I can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
> Handful of senators don’ pass legislation
> And marches alone can’t bring integration
> When human respect is disintegratin’
> This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’
> And ya, tell me, over and over and over again, my friend
> Ah, you don’ believe, we’re on the eve of destruction.
> Think of all the hate there is in Red China
> Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
> You may leave here for four days in space
> But when ya return, it’s the same old place
> The poundin’ of the drums, the pride and disgrace
> You can bury your dead, but don’ leave a trace
> Hate cha next-door neighbor, but don’ forget to say grace.
> And ya, tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend
> Ya don’ believe, we’re on the eve of destruction.
> No no, you don’ believe, we’re on the eve of destruction.

What I remember about the sixties was that in my small town there were only two rather antisocial lads.Amongst us all.
One went to London unheard of then but he did well...returned in his ffifties bought a large house renovated it..and showed us all he was a self made man.
The other..well he left and no one knows any more.I heard he beat his first wife..
The rest of us were really harmless...went to the tennis courts started to meet other younf folk from neighbouring towns..spread our wings a bit.
Conversly later drink seemed to play a bigger part..even young teens.By then most Mothers worked outside the home and must have handed more cash over (as compensation?) whereas thinking back a coke or ice cream were our vices.Oh and a sneaky kiss at the tennis pavilion.
Mountain ash

Oh, EW..thank you!!! I LOVE that song! I thought about you alot when I was answering this thread..it really got me going..as you can see Since you found the song and thought it was right..let me just ask you..I hope this is ok..but you DO remember the riots in Little Rock? The killings in Kent State? JFK´s assasination? Martin Luther KIng´s..I have a dream..and his subsequent murder? And the Vietnam War? The massacres there? Our use of napalm?

I discussed this all very avidly with my partner the other nite and he said quite calmly to my emotional outburst..well, I bet your friend (that´s YOU ) remembers the GOOD things..because that´s the way she is made. And, of course, I remembered all your humorous and positive posts filled with hope and warmth..and knew he was right..but you do remember, don´t you? The 60´s were wonderful with everything that was going on..both good and bad..it was a time of magic..for those of us that survived it in one piece! And I,too, am grateful for having been a part of it!

Lots of huuuugs!

I smile when I read your post here, MountainAsh..I wasn´t quite as mild then..I took the sexual revolt seriously..and I lived pretty hard then. I was very involved in the anti-war demonstrations. I lived in the Boston area where there were MANY colleges and universities..and many of my young friends never came back from the war..and those who did were broken spiritually..and often wounded physically.

Since Boston is a college town..Harvard is situated there for one thing..we had the fortune of having Bob Dylan around alot..Joan Baez..Peter, Paul and Mary..the music got us going,too. JFK´s assasination..well, Cape Cod is not far from Boston..

And the parties!!! In the midst of all this..beer in bathtubs..drugs handed out openly..well..it was a time..it was (also a song).

Since then I have seen an interview with Joan Baez..and she is a proper lady with a pearl necklace around her neck now and white blouse up to her neck....she has become part of the establishment that she fought against..I was disappointed..but that is life, I guess.

Janis Joplin..she never had the chance to become a proper lady who is very much a part of the establishment..if she ever would have become such..she died of an overdos of drugs..as so many did then..jumped out of windows on LSD or other bad trips..(Puff the Magic Dragon comes to mind..the song..about drugs..and what they do..).

I am mostly sad that my America today is even forgetting the very basic rights that we put out in our Declaration..the freedom of speech and the press..hmm..scarey..but it is all part of a grand design, I guess..one that we cannot understand.. of course, or see in it´s entirety.

Humlan, I grew up in Arlington Mass…I think you lived close by. So we were both exposed to the same things. But I have to admit, I remember the mellow things more. Even the demonstrations I went to were crowded with long haired hippies with love t-shirts on. The scent of sweet pot filled the air, and quiet singing accompanied by guitar music set the mood.

As in every generation, we had our share of violence…but I think the general public tried to counteract with peace signs, smoky essence sticks and Hara rama hara krishna music. That doesn’t seem to happen today. Infact I think too many young people think just of themselves. I hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think so.

What a sweet thing your friend said of me, and thank you, humlan, for sharing that with me. But when I come to think of it,…I sound sort of feeble minded;…like a person tiptoeing through tschernobyl radiated fields…smelling the flowers.

I'll weigh in from several angles.

First, the '60's. The only violence I remember is from the police, the establishment that was supposed to protect us. 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago, I was there with many friends, peacefully protesting the war -- signs and slogans, marijuana, but no violence, no one -- when Chicago police came in swinging billy clubs and then teargas. Lots of my friends bloodied and many arrested. This is what we were protesting against: violence, and the abuse of power. We were FOR tolerance, peace and love, and Let It Be.

The abuse of power continues, but now has more means to kill. We are given certain rights like candy while others are taken away in backrooms and most people don't even give a sh**.

However, children are NOT taught responsibility today, not at all. We wouldn't want to disrupt their tender egos by saying no. I've seen children jumping on flowers outside a restaurant and the parents just watch. Children steal and the parents pay for it but never tell the children it is wrong. Children are not taught any values because we're afraid of infringing on their rights. We have a society where people sue for their own stupidity, people sue MacDonalds because they're too stupid to watch hot coffee, and we actually reward them. In our rush to say "no one is guilty" we instead hammer home that no one is responsible.

In the 60s we fought against war, racism, sexism. The youth of today fight for what? -- the right to never hear NO? To never be told to take responsibility for their own actions?

We asked the world to own up to its faults. Now no one owns up to anything. Kids are raised with no values and no boundaries. So sometimes they go on a killing spree.

Whatever. It's not my fault. Can't possibly be their fault, because nothing is their fault or responsibility. It must be the fault of society. Whatever. BAM!

Interesting discussion.

I agree with Meredith -- the police instigated the violence in the demonstrations. I was in and around Chicago right before the convention (still in high school) and knew innocent people who were beaten.

However, some of the violence IS the fault of society. It's all our fault. We need to be more outraged about a violent government.

I'm prepping for a college-level class I'm teaching in the fall on Propaganda. One reason I decided to teach this particular course is that I find college students almost completely brainwashed by corporate commercial messages. Like many older people, they can't think outside of the propaganda of desire! They can't imagine life without buying needless objects. They, and most of the rest of us, are victims of an incessant barrage of pro-corporate messages. Corporations have taken control of the news media, and the public is passively supporting this.

Since the early 1970s, there has been an organized, concerted effort to deliver the media to corporations, who were unhappy with anti-business messages in media during the late 1960s. They have succeeded, largely through propagandistic means. One of the biggest lies that has been repeated so that you all believe it is that the U.S. media are liberal. Goebbels, who was Hitler's PR man, said that lies repeated often enough become the truth. He also said the the bigger the lie, the easier it is to pass off as the truth.

We've been fed the whole false idea of "market forces" that determine what's on TV. This is BS! What appears on TV is that which appeals to corporate sponsors, which is sex and violence. The choices we're presented with are from a limited spectrum of programs that appeal to advertisers. The corporate mindset has inflitrated public broadcasting too. And now they're after the internet, so beware!

Watching violence doesn't make audiences behave violently, but more likely makes them identify with victims and respond with fear. At the same time, violent content contributes to a society where violence is tolerated.

Our nation makes money on violence and we don't complain about that, for cryin out loud! Young people can look to their elders, and at the support for wars against our purported enemies. The US sanctions torture, imprisons people whom it prevents from seeking legal defense, and so on. Is it any wonder that youth turn to violence? We need to look at our values as a nation.

The defense industry is the biggest money maker in the country. It has been raking in the dough in Iraq (I read today that 8.2 billion in taxpayer dollars is unaccounted for.) This war is ruining the economy, the dollar is shrinking.

This is the greater violence. Our children will continue to behave violently as long as our country is warlike. The worst thing about the media is that viewer citizens aren't demanding that they bring back reporting, that they get rid of tabloid sensationalism that's only designed to pander and to purchase eyeballs for advertisers.

Boy, this hit a nerve with me.

And you know why it is so easy for Corporations to do so, DJ? Because we've lost community. When there's a void, people (esp. unleashed children) will fill. I look on the generations after ours as bored - our generation having a touch of it, but not to the same degree. Generations after ours (as did some in ours) developed into humanoids who need active stimulation, and who will get it at most any cost, by degree of individual lack. There's a shock factor in violence that feeds the need. Unleashed from community and moral obligations, the media-conditioned generations will evolve further... esp. since we are now global, watching what goes on everywhere, in disgust and/or excitement.

You know, after reading this thread, like in so many others, I have to applaud you ladies on your impressive intellectual discussion. It feels so good to hear intelligent women converse so brilliantly.

That said...I agree with you all too. Gee that was literate.

It's a chicken and egg situation Gims, to some degree. I've been reading much about the history of the development of media because a big issue today is the corporate takeover of media. I've found that in the early 19th century, people were very anti-big business because it was threatening to disrupt communities and take away local control of peoples' lives. In the U.S., most of the rhetoric is aimed at big gobernment. Much of this is big business propaganda. We don't have big government directly controlling our lives so much, but just think about how big business does -- they control the media (broadcasting is based on advertising -- there was a LOT of public opposition to this especially in the 1930s when the govt. gave away the spectrum to big companies and took it away from public control), they buy our representatives so to a great degree businesses decide who gets elected, in buying our reps. they get to write all our laws, because big businesses can afford to pay lobbyists who carry a slew of propaganda with them, they can write or overturn local zoning laws, so we have to look at ugly buildings and endure suburband sprawl...and on and on. Citizens allow this to happen by being passive. Yes, many of us are business owners. But business owners need to be good citizens, not just milk the system.

IMHO people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (who come lately to philanthropy now that they don't know what to do with their billions) have milked the system. Especially Gates was a predator, and thanks to his PR, he's lauded as a hero entrepreneur. They shouldn't be allowed to have so much money. I know that sounds socialist, but I think it's true -- how much money does an individual need? The truth is that money is limited. If some are hoarding it, others go without. These guys could probably pay off the national debt, they could resuce some small countries.

All this is to say that youth look at the world and feel helpless. We're supposed to be a democracy, but they see a world where their voice doesn't count. They've been marketed to and used all their lives. Their creativity and rebellion is packaged and sold back to them. You should all watch the PBS Merchants of Cool -- you can see it online.