I don't think the death penalty is allowed anywhere in Europe. Turkey is an exception, but that's not Europe.
Americans are usually the first to fight for human rights. They fight against abortion. They fight for mistreated animals. It doesn't make sense to me to allow the death penalty. I say, if you aren't able to pull that rope, or press that button yourself, then you shouldn't expect another person to do it.

Okay, here's my 2 cents...he got what he deserved...period.

Good ridance to bad rubbish. Too bad he didn't die at birth there would be thousands of innocent people he slaughtered, still alive and well....

Now where is that Bin Laden character? Yu-hoo, oh Binny baby, come out, come out, wherever you are....We have something for you!!! Lock and load!!

Nancy, just one more thought on your theory of a vendetta from Bush JR...if that were the case, then why didn't the American soldiers just kill Saddam in the hole where they found him, instead of turning him over??? In many peoples eyes, Bush is simply wrong, even when he is right. Sorry, but I guess this means I had 4 cents to put in on this topic.

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I wish that the rest of the world would follow the UK and do away with the death penalty

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With respect to my sisters in the UK, I certainly hope not. When was the last time a rapist and murderer who was executed went out and committed the same crime? There is no out on good behavior. Many hardened criminals, who were out on good behavior, have repeated their crimes. Poor Polly Klas would be alive if her murderer was executed to begin with. Quite frankly, I care more for the little girl than I do for her murderer.

The one mistake that our President made was selling us on the WMD's. I see more clearly other reasons now than I did before, as to why we went to Iraq. As for the WMD's, I believe they were there. How else could saddam have gassed all those innocent people? The WMD's were moved and the UN gave him enough time to do that. There have been evidence of mobile chemical labs in Iraq. I am sure you will not hear of it on CNN.

Here are some other reasons and some of it has to do with bin laden.

1. Saddam has funded alqaeda in order for them to commit their terrorism. 911 wouldn't have been possible if these guys didn't have any money. Saddam was a large contributor along with the Saudi's.

2. There have been underground alqaeda cells in Iraq, which were uncovered by our soldiers. That was reported in the news several times. I guess it's more important to hate a person, as our President is hated.

3. After we defeated the taliban in Afghanistan, the taliban needed a place to regroup and start over. Who hated America as much as or more than bin laden? Saddam did and that is where the taliban were heading next to build their training camps in order to regroup and start over. This has plenty to do with committing more 911's and worse. They are not like the Japanese after WWII. They do not give up, not at all!

I have been studying muslim's for many years, even before 911. They are extremely patient people. Unlike us in the western world who want everything yesterday. They take their time. So much so that some are aware that they will die before their mission is through. They pass it on to the next generation. These are fanatics and if it takes them 300 years to accomplish something for the glory of allah, they are okay with that. We are infidels to them, and they want to get rid of or convert all infidels. We are the infidels to them.

This is not a joke and calling our President a liar certainly is giving them more empowerment. Speaking of lying. Did Bush go to Iraq secretly and looked for WMD's? Did he look for them and not find any, then came back to America and told us they were there? That would be lying.

I am confident that history is going to show us this was the right thing to do.

Anyway, I am not trying to change anyone's mind/beliefs. I just think it fair to be able to give another side to all this. I lost a friend in the pentagon on 911 as well. She was a kind and talented person who didn't hurt anybody. She was 43 at the time, left behind two pre-teens and a husband. Now her children are without a mother. My sympathy goes to them. I really wish that we had enough patience not to go back to sleep again, like we were before that tragic day.

Peace out,
Cathi

The 9/11 commission found that there were no WMD and Saddam Hussein had no relationship to 9/11. I myself heard George W. Bush say that he wanted to go after Saddam because he tried to kill his father. I have not heard that US soldiers found evidence of AlQueda cells in Iraq so I won't comment on that statement. It appears that Saddam was found guilty of a crime, sentenced to death and executed. I just ponder the whole of the situation in light of so much questionable decision making that has cost the lives of thousands of people and mangled the bodies of so many more. I keep thinking about the movie "Wag the Dog" and wonder how the situation in Iraq and the premise of the movie feels related to me. Killing people to show that killing people is wrong is a contradictory concept that makes no sense to me. I pray that more people don't have to die for another's pursuit of power and greed.

I have to pose this question again. When was the last time an executed rapist and murderer went out and murdered an innocent person? IMO, I think it is more important for the innocent victim to not become victims, rather than having a scumbag live with the high probably that person will commit the crime again. I would think twice of doing a crime if I knew this would be my punishment. Getting together and singing kumbaya is not going to solve the crime situation and it definitely will not solve terrorism. Again this is my opinion.

I know what the 9/11 commission found. I forgot to mention this and this is very important at least one would think it would be. But I live in a heavy military populated area. I know some troops that have been there. I have listened to interviews with troops that are or have been over there. I will take the word of someone that is there and has seen more than what those in Washinton supposedly found. So I have heard straight from the mouth of soldiers as to what is actually found and what is going on. BTW, while my dad was undergoing chemotherapy at Walter Reed, I saw some soldiers there that have lost a limb or two. It is so sad to see, but oddly enough some of them believe so much in what we are doing, they want to go back! Yeah, I'll take their word anyday rather than someone like say, Rosie O(Overrated)Donnel. I even heard in one interview from a soldier that he gets really hurt when he hears the rhetoric reported on the news. Like, Bush lied to us, etc... But, I guess the hatred for Bush far outweighs all other things for some people. It used to be in the old days the country united during war time no matter what party they were for. They understood back then that kumbaya wasn't going to cut it.

As for the statement that our President made about going after saddam because he tried to kill his father. I don't doubt that you heard this. I would like to hear the entire radio address in it's full context.

Again, not trying to change minds. Just trying to give the other side of the story which is not told alot. Certainly not by the media with their own agenda.

Peace out,
Cathi

Wittleman, this is a HOT topic at this forum. I've burnt my tongue here several times. Just want you to know you are not alone in your opinion.

Cathy, I could ask you a similar question. When was the last time an innocent person was put on the electric chair? And at the same time, I do agree with you , in that I don't support murderers to be released from prison, unless they have committed the crime in self defense.

Just want to remind you that America was torn as well during the Vietnam War. And there were soldiers then, who lost limbs but still said they would go back to fight. And what good did it do them? What good did it do America?

Kathy, Chatty I truly respect your opinions, and certainly don't want to offend anyone personally. But just as you have your opinions I feel obligated to stand up for mine.

Here are a few examples from thousands of private videos that soldiers taped. Maybe after seeing these you can understand why there is an opposition.

War in Iraq

A personal account

Thirsty Children

I'd send more, but these accounts are enough to break my heart.

This sort of thing is always a moral dilemma for me. I believe in the sanctity of life, from one end of the spectrum to the other (i.e., conception to death). So if I honestly believe that all life is sacred, then I cannot condone capital punishment. Yet, what alternatives do we have to deal with those who have no respect for life and spend their entire lives and energies erasing lives of innocent people? As a global society, we need to come up with better solutions. It makes me yearn for the day when we can send them to penal planets, like they do in Star Trek. But even then we will have to deal with the inevitable escapes and further abuses. So it continues to be a moral dilemma.

What makes it moreso for me is my profound belief that God has created and loves each human person. I also believe that from the perspective of eternity, there is no such thing as being "beyond redemption". While I can and do make judgements on another person's actions when they impact on others and myself, I don't think I have everything I would need to make judgements on a person's heart or redemptive value. I think I'd prefer to leave that up to God. Which then makes me wonder how I can pick and choose who God should love...it would enrage me if I was told who I could love and who I must hate according to outward appearances and outward behaviours. I would want to delve into the heart of a person and sit there for awhile before I made my own decision on whether or not there was any redeeming value left in this person.

I'd like to believe that what we do here on earth is not the totality of who we are in the grand scheme of eternal life. I've made lots of mistakes too, not on the same level as Hussein or Hitler, but there are some out there who could declare me to be "beyond redemption" too. How tragic is that? I've been capable of change. Maybe one's death doesn't change the capacity to change. Maybe God's got other plans for those who didn't learn the sanctity of life while on earth.

It's still a moral dilemma. One that's hard for Christians especially to grapple with, because we're human, and our human-ness wants to see someone like Hussein pay for his inhumanity and blatant disregard for the sanctity of life. And yet our Christian faith does exhort us to love and forgive one another.

This morning, I was awakened with the burning call to pray for Saddam Hussein. That certainly wasn't from within my own mercy for him...the man's actions repulse me even now. Yet, there was no doubt that I was being asked to pray for him, just as I'm often awakened in the middle of the night to pray for any one of you or my family, or sometimes people I don't even know. I don't know the "why" of that call, I just know by now to "just do it" and leave it up to God to do what He wants with my prayer.

God has placed a deep burden of praying for this man on my heart. Why? I have no idea. But it gives me yet one more glimpse of the reality of God's mercy...why would He ask me to pray for someone if He has already condemned him?

It definitely leaves the door open to God's mercy and the very unpopular and perhaps undigestable notion that nobody is beyond God's redemption...

I already know that this aint gonna be to populare an oppinion after reading the remainding posts but heer gose anyway.........There gotta be somethng wrong with people murderring someone for their crimes whoever that someone is an whatever they have dun. I say it again murdering someone.....couse to all acounts hussain was murdered by god fearing people who object to murder!!!!!!!!. Dose this makes sence to anyone who isn't filled with hate and fear and revenge, Is this the lesson and the legacy that you want to leave the future generasions........How is it spiritule god loving people get filled with blood lust regarding certine criumes......rape and murder etc never acceptable.........major control by dictators is never acceptable........There are processes ie incaration, for life means they can't rape or murder again. Inteligent solusions are necassary as to what be done with individuels and i put stress on thought processes that are not similare to the criminals, ones that are humane but yet fitting to the crime........

That includes the USA and the UK becouse both countries have had their turn at dictatorship in both our histories and potencilly are still trying. Do you think our countries are beyond such thing's and if so then were is your proof that our countries are squeeky clean in any of it'spolitical deallings, or rights to start war on any other country.....I am not Irish but do you even know the mass slaughter, and torture that the UK and USA visited on ireland, not too far back in history. Did you think that it's only uncivilised dictator countries that behave like this or need taken in hand like this.......

In the name of god thousand, millions, or even billions were tourtured and killed.......not the Musliums but the christions, during the inquisition,(mostly women, 9 million) yet what a populer religion it is today and look at it's history. Now look beyond the history or rhetoric we are force feed.........The muslims doing what their doing in the name of their god aint that diffrent from the ferver of christianity in those past times. How much of todays terrorist threat is really to do with religion when it's seperated from ecconomics, power or mass control. Or is it the weel turning and just another religion or country making it's bid for total dominance over all others

Saying that, two wrong never make a write.....Muslium or christianity or any other supposed holy war in the name of any god. Or any country having total countrol or stranglehold over the others countries. Do you think any country or religion should be trusted with this much power?.........

Singing Kumbaya as a punishment or as the only alternitive to this type of behaviour is a patronising and condiscending slant on those that question the correctness of the murderring of dictaters or any indivduel for any crime..... Supposed sanctifying of murder becouse a government or a court deems it necasary, get a grip.......murder is murder is murder.....it's just as wrong as the criminals and those that call for any individual to be treated in this way.

Death is not the only solusion for hidiouse crime's, it's a short sighted and ignorant solusion, sweep it under the carpet and preety it up with an acceptiable term for it and patriotism. Or ask the survivers of attrocities not all of them want similare revenge, some have the sence to act diffrently from their assailants, despite their anger..

I also know soldiers who now know that they were indoctrinated into an mindset in order to perfore the tasks they did or were asked to do, how else could they live with themselfs, do their jobs and resign to the life they have been left with after all they seen and dune and their injories

i am shaking with distress at what iv just read from good god loving indivduels that do a compleat schizoid u-turn regarding certine topics, ya take my breath away........

and that my tuppence worth.....

celtic_flame