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#63593 - 10/11/05 06:10 AM topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Help!

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#63594 - 10/11/05 06:17 AM Re: topics that vanish?
yepthatsme2 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 816
Loc: Fredericksburg, Va.
oh my!

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#63595 - 10/11/05 06:18 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Maybe I've been visiting a different planet, but it seems some topics have vanished.

"First kiss...best kiss...."

".....bag of tricks"

Am I losing my mind?

Danita

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#63596 - 10/11/05 06:28 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Sadie Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 1274
Loc: MD
Damta.
I went to look for that topic in remember thread and can't find out where it went . What happen ?

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#63597 - 10/11/05 06:43 AM Re: topics that vanish?
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
I was searching for them too and even opened every single thread one by one. Someone PM'd me to look at one where I was accused of being overly sensitive. Not so, just did not particularily agree with the way someone stated a fact incorrectly even after someone else mentioned it nicely to her. Oh well, who knows? I believe the person starting a thread can delete it, but don't quote me on that because I am not sure. I know for a fact Dotsie as Administrator can. Hey you win some and you lose some, thats life! [Eek!] [Roll Eyes]

[ October 10, 2005, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

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#63598 - 10/11/05 06:50 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
I did a search for the "bag of tricks" topic, and the search engine found it, but then said it didn't exist, which I think is what it says when the first post of that thread has been deleted. It seems that many posts by this one poster have been deleted in the past couple of hours.

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#63599 - 10/11/05 07:08 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
That is such a shame, I tried to get her not to "leave", I even emailed her and asked her to reconsider.

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#63600 - 10/11/05 08:07 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
So, the person who starts the thread, deleates THEIR posts, and all of ours disappear also?????

Even the records of MY post are gone from my profile and recent posts page.

perplexing!

Dotsie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

d.

[ October 11, 2005, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Danita ]

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#63601 - 10/11/05 10:43 AM Re: topics that vanish?
mrs_madness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
After reading this I looked around to see if I could figure what you all were talking about. Indeed there are many topics and posts missing. I've seen this happen before when the poster requests to be deleted from the registered user list, but this person is still registered.

I'm sorry she got upset and left.I hope she'll be back. There should be room for all kinds of women in here, including women going through personal crisis and unhappy moments. I have seen a low tolerance level for women having mid-life *issues* that they can't deal with. There is a lot of good old American pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps advice in here, which is not always an option for women in a emotional quandry. Sometimes we haven't got what it takes to make that happen.

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#63602 - 10/11/05 05:03 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
I agree that there's always room for more compassion when dealing with each others' emotional crises. We are sometimes quick to pounce on what we see as the most logical solution or best way for that person to go. We do so with sincere care and genuine desire to help. But the reality is that it's not always possible for the person mired in that quicksand to follow the advice given. And I've seen some impatience here when that happens, when we think someone isn't taking our advice quickly enough.

Healing always takes time...some more than others. When we've offered our wisdom, if we truly want to be compassionate healing women for these wounded others, our role ought to then become (IMHO) that of "companions-along-the-way" while those women find their own way out of their quandaries. When we try to push people in the direction we think they should choose, we often end up pushing them further into their darkness.

Having said that, I think that when a person leaves and takes their posts with them, it's possibly indicative of the anger and hurt they feel, but taking EVERYONE's posts (i.e., the entire thread) with them seems rather vindictive to me...but I'm trying to keep an open compassionate mind.

I too saw the warning signs but didn't really know how best to handle the impending departure. I too hope she'll be back. This really can be a healing place if we hang in here long enough to see the genuine love and care behind the wisdom of the women here.

PS And now I have to do my own vanishing act for awhile...we have to go back to Montreal to lay some laminate flooring...don't know when I'll be able to get online to participate in this thread again. But I'll be back!

[ October 11, 2005, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Eagle Heart ]

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#63603 - 10/11/05 05:24 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Eagle, make the most of your endeavor. Enjoy those you are working with. I'm sure you will.

Danita, I have deleted posts, or a portion of a post in the past, but not entire topics. This is new to me too. I'm guessing that when the person deletes the first message in a topic, the whole post disappears. I'll check this out. My understanding was that you could only delete a post written by you. Hmmm...

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#63604 - 10/11/05 06:25 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Ladies,

I don't think this was a case of people not being compassionate. I think it was a case of communication errors.

I talked to her offline because I saw it coming - she was VERY open to what I had to say - but in the end, I think she felt like she didn't fit in.

When people speak in "generalizations" and they use "fighting words" other people get offended. And when called on it - she began to feel picked on. She chose to take her ball and go home.

As the forums grow, situations like this will grow also. We will have people come and go.

I think we are very much an OPEN group, willing to accept people where they are at. I think it becomes difficult when people come to us - and myabe they aren't careful how THEY communicate.

You know Dots, I think we should have a sticky that shares "everything I learned about communication, I learned in Kindergarten". Maybe we could put some words of wisdom out there for new posters.

I have never been a part of a more active, positive, accepting group.

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#63605 - 10/11/05 06:41 PM Re: topics that vanish?
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Excellent idea and I think it might save some wounded hearts along the way.

Everyone has an opinion and a right to voice it... we just need to make sure we are not "categorizing" and lumping other people's feelings/opinions, dismissing them, and forcing or shoving our own to the front as gospel. Self-included!!!! Lesson learned.

I think we should, as Danita wisely put it, have the 10 Commandments of BWS, so to speak.

BTW Danita...your pm is full. Please empty and I'll respond to your last message.

JJ

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#63606 - 10/11/05 06:57 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Here is what everyone reads when they register for the forums:

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We promise to provide a safe place where members are encouraged to treat each other with respect and to support and encourage each other with enthusiasm.

If you are new to the site, come on in. If you’ve been around for a while, be sure to welcome our newcomers. We know you might think you have a dumb question or post, but there is no such thing on our board. Anything that comes to mind is okay with us as long as you follow our guidelines. Whether you are rejoicing over a new job or are upset about a relationship, more than likely another boomer woman is going through the same thing. Being supportive of one another is why this board exists. Remember, “FRIENDS HEAL FRIENDS.”


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#63607 - 10/12/05 07:35 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
I feel the need to speak my mind on this. First, we are all avoiding using this person's "name" and we shouldn't. She has an identity and here it was Ladybug. I could see that sometimes she appeared to be coming off as bragging or judgmental but each time she was called on it, she apologized and tried to explain what she meant. She never tried to hurt anyone and most of the time, she was sincerely trying to share her knowledge about health issues and her outlooks on life. I do think she was being "picked" on by some. There is a real human behind that screen name, a woman who wanted to be a part of something and feel safe to share. I understand how things get twisted and misunderstood and I know how it can hurt to feel like you're being picked on. I tried to stop her from leaving and to reconsider. But what is hurting now (and I do feel her pain) is that some don't seem to care that a soul is hurting, only that there are posts missing. It is sad.

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#63608 - 10/11/05 08:08 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Bluebird,

I chose not to use her name, because she has chosen to no longer be represented here. So, my "not using her name" was in honor of her wishes.

I don't know how you could possibly know how "some people are" feeling about this situation. I for one liked her, and communicated with her off-forum.

If being "picked on" is being accountable for the generalizations that one makes...then so be it.

WHEN we communicate, we need to be careful that we speak for ourselves, and not a group at large. Generalizations tend to offend people. Wouldn't you agree!?

So, I noticed missing threads - topics I had poured my heart out on. I was just perplexed. That shouldn't be able to happen on this website - regardless of decisions that individuals make.

danita

[ October 11, 2005, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Danita ]

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#63609 - 10/11/05 08:37 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
Danita, I thought I was being careful not to speak for everyone, which is why I said "some"...
and I stand corrected on the missing thread issue. I wasn't seeing it as feeling bad after pouring one's heart out about a topic. You're right, that could be upsetting, thinking someone was "deleting" your thoughts and feelings. I don't think she knew the whole thing would get deleted, so I don't thik it was done vindictively.

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#63610 - 10/11/05 09:07 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
BTW, Danita, how much snow did you guys get up there?? This is my first autumn in CO so just seeing the snow on the higher peaks is blowing my mind! We've just been getting rain down here, but it's chilly. The aspens are still gold, though and some are still turning.

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#63611 - 10/11/05 09:17 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Bluebird,

I'm in the Denver area - the ground was too warm to hold the snow - so it's just been soggy!

You'll get some SNOW and COLD this year - I can almost guarantee it!

I love the winter - but hate driving on bad roads - it gives me knotts in my stomach....ugh!

danita

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#63612 - 10/12/05 12:23 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Sadie Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 1274
Loc: MD
Good reminder,
Dotsie thanks,

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#63613 - 10/12/05 12:40 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
If I'm remembering right, isn't there info on deleting your messages and isn't there a warning that if you do, it could clean out the entire thread. Or, did I dream that?

I have my own feelings about her departure, which I will keep to myself. We all make choices and she, for whatever reasons, made the choice to leave and take her messages with her. I'm sorry that her or anyone else is in pain. There are many of us here who are suffering right now and it isn't fun. We just need compassion for each other.

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#63614 - 10/12/05 01:35 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
Yes, we do need compassion...I guess I made a big issue out of this because I've always tried to be a peacemaker. It doesn't work in my own family either. I have to learn I can't change people's feelings and I can't make everyone get along. I just like when everyone's being nice to each other. [Smile]

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#63615 - 10/12/05 02:51 AM Re: topics that vanish?
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
You're right WB however many people were disturbed by the words ladybug posted time after time, and felt maybe there was more going on than any of us knew. I personally avoided answering any of those posts except one and then was deemed 'over sensitive' which is preposterous because if I were my answer would have been much different. I was asked by someone if they thought sending ladybug a PM letting her know as kindly as possible that her post were harsh at times and others were getting upset, would be a good thing to do. I said it couldn't hurt so long as done with compassion, and it was done that way, as one sister to another. Her reply was oh, thank you and I will be more careful or something to that effect. Thought all was well and then there she was again doing the same thing. Ladies when theres a large group of women all in one forum this type of thing happens, you win some and you lose some, its inevitable. Usually however what I have observed is that there are those that can dish it out, but can't take it. Hopefully this forum is about truth. When I ask for advice I pray for the answers I receive to be heartfelt and above all truthful. I think we all try to be considerate but sometimes you have to call a flower a flower. Except for Dotsie and JJ I have the most posts on the site and have seen this before and will see it again, because no matter how hard we all try you can't please everyone. I myself had a post deleted because it appeared insensitive. I took time off to think about it for a few days and decided to just be more careful. Some come here loaded with baggage and no matter how we try they can not nor will they let loose of it. Theres a pertinent saying that goes:

"Flexible people never get bent out of shape."

Maybe with time to reflect ladybug will return, maybe not, but we all are still here and life goes on...hugs! [Smile]

[ October 11, 2005, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

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#63616 - 10/12/05 03:00 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
You're so right, Chatty. I considered leaving this site because it suddenly became negative and hateful. I never wanted or expected this site to be that way and I even complained to Dotsie about it. I don't want to focus on what someone or myself hates. I don't want to judge others. So, instead of leaving, I stopped answering the posts that ran along that nature. For me, that was the easiest way to handle it.

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#63617 - 10/12/05 03:03 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
Thanks for explaining your point, Chatty. I guess when you have so many women, with so many different situations, it's hard not to offend or hurt someone unintentionally. We all have our own opinions and we need to be careful that we voice our own without trying to impose it on another.
I really like that "flexible people" quote! It is right on.
Peace.

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#63618 - 10/12/05 03:59 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Evie Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 791
Loc: Nipigon, Ontario Canada
The only thing we all have completely, absolutely in common here is that we are women (unless you are a man who managed to sneak past chatty's radar LOL [Smile] ). Other than that, we have different personalties, backgrounds, cultures, faiths, countries, politics, moral viewpoints, problems, etc. etc.

Learning compassion, voicing opinions without imposing them, allowing others to vent - all of this is an ongoing process. Some people will grow with it, others will leave. Chatty's post put it well.

Really, it's a credit to Dotsie and to all the women who make BWS their "home", that there isn't MORE negativity. I've seen email lists blow up and disintegrate over much less.

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#63619 - 10/12/05 04:55 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Well said ladies. I think we have a very unique and gifted group. We all want women to find this a place to safely share, and just be.

Personally, I hate to see anyone go away wounded, but I understand that this place is not the perfect fit for everyone.


Danita

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#63620 - 10/12/05 05:04 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
Chatty, I really appreciated your post here. And like Evie, I see being able to be here in an authentic, listening, compassionate way for/with each other as an ongoing process...to use Daisy's comment from another post, each of us comes here as a unique "work in progress", with wounds and wisdom that are sometimes unexpected and difficult to delve into, but nevertheless real to the person suffering and sharing.

I choose to stay because I choose to grow and evolve. I also choose to "pay forward" everything everyone here has done for me. You all know what a difference you've made in my life. You have continuously supported and carried me through some very painful moments and issues. The healing you have helped happen here through your care and wisdom is immeasurable, and no matter how tough or painful it gets at times, I find it impossible to leave. Partly because I want to do for others what you all have done for me.

Losing someone we've come to care about is always a difficult thing to grapple with. I always hope for the best for each woman who comes here, and it's painful to realize that it isn't - and won't be - "home" for everyone.

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#63621 - 10/13/05 12:12 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Daisygirl Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 1052
Loc: Ohio
I feel that I should add my 2 cents to this post since I was probably the person who challenged ladybug's posts more than anyone. I hope I didn't seem too harsh when challenging her statements. My intent was only to correct a statement which seemed to include me (or all women my age) when it was not true, or at least not true for everyone.

I agree with Chatty, that every single woman will not be compatible with this site. I'm sorry to see ladybug go, but at the same time I don't regret my words. I guess I shouldn't have read that Boundaries book.

Daisygirl

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#63622 - 10/13/05 12:28 AM Re: topics that vanish?
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Ahhh...excuseeeee meeeee..are we all bout done? Hmm? Aren't you all forgetting a LIT-TAL something here? Gees louise!

Hell-O? IT'S ALL ABOUT ME, ME, ME! k? Are we clear on this?

Ahem...Now, let's see some bowing and scraping, and get things back to normal, shall we? Wouldn't hurt none if you chanted a little of the "I love da Queen" thing too...

Line um up girls, and-a one, and-a two, and-a... (Evie...I saw you roll your eyes...careful missy)

What? what?

JJ

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#63623 - 10/13/05 12:34 AM Re: topics that vanish?
DJ Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 1149
Loc: Ohio
I've been way too busy to visit this site lately, so I missed the Ladybug story. But since many of you know that I did some research on this site, about whether an actual culture was forming online, I'd like to mention a couple of things.

I've been on this site since it began, and interviewed a number of you recently for a chapter I submitted for publication. What appears is that, yes, there is a group culture here, with its own mostly unspoken rules and behaviors. There's definitely a sense of belonging to something, as many of you are aware. And as Danita and Chatty point out, BWS is not for everyone. As Evie says above that there are all kinds of beliefs and values, I found that those who stay have more in common than you might think. Maybe some of this seems rather obvious to you. But to me it's remarkable that such a thing can occur when most of the participants don't even meet face to face.

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#63624 - 10/13/05 12:45 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
What amazes me, is that I've felt more love and encouragement in the 3 weeks I've been here, than years of some of my "face to face" friendships...God bless this forum.

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#63625 - 10/13/05 01:29 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Lynn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 621
Loc: pennsylvania
I have hesitiated and am still unsure but I throw caution to the wind.....

Here is my three cents. I missed the Ladybug incident and really do not know most of the women posting on this thread but I have been around for over 2 years and this forum got me through a period in life that has been absolutely devasting. It may turn out happy in the end and if I am sane it will be because of the women here. I am grateful every day for the soothing comfort and support I have received and most importantly, some one to talk with when I was the caregiver and had no one to vent to.

If you have ever been a caregiver you know what I am talking about. Thank you to all those women and you know who you are. You literally got my feet moving in the morning.

I left, backed out, whatever you want to call it, from the forums a few months ago. I felt slighted not by words hurled my way-I think I could take that. But by literally not feeling like I even existed. I felt like a ghost. I would post on a thread and the conversation would just keep right on going like I was not even there. I have fairly thick skin so this happened quite a few times. Then I started to pay attention to it and it happended almost every time!

Finally, I posted two new topics really looking for some day to day advice that was not rocket science but would be helpful. No action on one thread and 2 on the other.

Could be that no one had any advice to give-yes that could be the case but after the six weeks of being glossed over I became a bit skeptical and talked with Dotsie and explained my position. She respected it and we moved on.

Time passed and I realized I needed to give back to others what I had received. I did not like removing myself from the forum because I had received so much. I decided I would only post when I could offer some advice or let someone know I would keep them in my prayers.

So ladies, I came clean. You know where I have been and where, if you care. I just want you to know that it is not just nasty phrasing that turns people away, it is sometimes excluding people without thinking about it. I may have gotten caught in the "growth spurt" of the forum and if that is the case, so be it. I am a big girl and will continue to try to give back some of what I have received.

I hope healthy feedback is not offensive, it is not meant to be. DJ's post just motivated me to post. The culture does exist and is fascinating to watch. Don't fool yourselves in thinking it does not. Cultures exist everywhere and to see one unfold in cyberspace is pretty remarkable.

I will be around, hopefully lending a helping hand when I can.

Lynn

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#63626 - 10/13/05 01:35 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
Lynn, I know that feeling of being a "ghost"...it hurts. I haven't experienced it here, but with my so called friends and family. I email them letters and pictures, I remember birthdays, etc. But most of the time I don't get anything back. What's worse is if I do get an email from them (and I get so excited when I see their names in the inbox) it's always a lame forward. I'm sure it was never intentional here.

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#63627 - 10/13/05 01:48 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Daisygirl Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 1052
Loc: Ohio
Lynn, you are right, feeling excluded would make a person feel like not even bothering.

It's interesting because when I start a thread, I can't wait to see what others feel/think about whatever subject it is. If it dies off, I feel disappointed, as if I was waiting on a friend to call and she doesn't. Maybe that's something we should keep in mind; that we are having conversations and if we were doing it in person, we certainly would not ignore one of the participants. We would at least acknowledge with our body language or facial expression that we agree or at least understand what was said. This is the first time I've ever been involved in anything like this and I am learning as I go.

Daisygirl

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#63628 - 10/13/05 02:00 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
Daisy, how are your cousins doing? Did they ever catch the guy or guys who hurt them? Sorry if you answered these questions already, but if you did, I missed them.

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#63629 - 10/13/05 03:17 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
Lynn, I'm so sorry you felt ignored. I personally, never posted on caregiving because I'm completely clueless about it. So far, I haven't been put in this position. But please know that none of us did it intentionally and I hope you continue to come back...please!

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#63630 - 10/13/05 03:26 AM Re: topics that vanish?
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
One of the things I have taken upon myself is to sift through the topics every other day and anything not answered because someone posted over it or anything that has received only a few replies I pull them forward. Trying to give everyone a chance. And dear Lynn we have all felt ignored at one time or another. I've said numerous times that my name showing up on a post is its death warrant because countless times no one posts after I do. Someone jokingly said, whats to say after you tell it like it is??? We all have to remember to treat others as we want to be treated. So glad your back.... [Wink]

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#63631 - 10/13/05 05:02 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
Lynn, I'm probably one of the ones who has inadvertently (NEVER intentionally) missed or not responded to some of your posts. Ironically, I usually saw you as being in deep conversation with others here and often didn't want to intrude, especially on topics that I have no clue about.

I know what it's like to feel invisible and am sorry to have contributed in any way to your feeling that here (and that goes for Chatty too!) It's hard to respond to every post and every thread, not just because of time and chore constraints, but because what wisdom I might have doesn't stretch very far and I just often don't feel I have even two-cents worth to offer in some circumstances. But that doesn't mean I don't care - and I lift ALL of my sisters here in prayer throughout the day, every day. This place, and every women here, is special to my heart.

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#63632 - 10/13/05 07:20 AM Re: topics that vanish?
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Lynn, I am so happy you are back.

You are a wonderful writer, very articulate, and you gave us great stories about Jimmy Buffet and your adventures on the high seas, and also provided heartfelt responses to others.

You are a very valuable member of this forum and I do not know whether I personally ever made you feel unloved/unwanted or anything negative, but if I thought for a minute I did, I would be devastated. I have always held you in the highest regard. You are just so special to me!

JJ

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#63633 - 10/13/05 04:28 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Lynn, I second what the queen says. Any chance of sharing more of those at sea adventures? Please tell us what you're doing since leaving your job in the spring...

Also, I just want eveyone to know that I have poured my heart and soul into a post and never had a response. It happens. We can't take it personally. If we really need a reply we can simply bring the topic up again and share that we would love a little feedback.

I focus on what's good in these forums. I try hard to ignore the bad because there is truly so little. What we post must be of interest, and helpful to women because this site is now receiving over a million hits for every 30 day period. Give yourselves a pat on the back for being so brilliant...

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#63634 - 10/13/05 05:09 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Lynn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 621
Loc: pennsylvania
I don't think I will be going to sea in the forums any time soon. But thanks for asking.

Smile- your pm is full. I tried to reply.

Thank you all for taking the time to let me know that all is well. I will take it slow.

And I don't even know how you all manipulate the topics and bring them back up etc. I just kinda flow with the conversation as someone put it and you are right, we don't have the opportunity to read someones's body language to see if we are received OK. In cyberspace, we can easily feel ignored but a smile across the room may have been enough. I will try to keep in mind that we are having a conversation and we would not exlcude someone in the room unless we wanted them to leave so we need to find a way to do that in cyberspace. Good point that I will try to fulfill.

Thank you again,
Lynn

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#63635 - 10/15/05 08:28 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Junebug Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 171
Loc: 10 yrs in OH now, 47 yrs in Tx
I think we should all remember, people are NOT all alike. Some people may come to the forum and NOT be ready to accept help in any form, or be too depressed (needing a professional), or have troubles (mentally or different) we do not know about that we cannot help with, them being in a different place and mind set. Helping other is great, but you are going to find those individuals who CHOSE not to be helped or have a personality that does not want help as the board grows. People are going to come and go for all types of reasons. Growing Pains! Sometimes it is just their personiality. I hate admitting this also (I love helping others, always have), but I am on several poetry boards, and it happens, even there! Life experience has taught me this as it has many of you!

No one on this board did anything WRONG and might NOT have ever been able to do anything RIGHT for HER. I do not like to hear the what ifs or buts from all of you! Some poeple can't be helped, some people do not want to be helped. How hard do you try? When is enough enough? Personally, I too subscribe to if someone is getting unusually upset, it raises a red flag, and I either do not post, or make one try. I usually get the feel real quick if I can help. If it doesn't work time and again, reply after reply from them and their reaction to others, something is definately wrong with that person, and they need something more than a board to post to.

Our prayer for her is the best thing that can be done at that point, and maybe changing the subject to happier subjects. You may not agree, but controversary never gets anyone anywhere, especially if something is wrong with someone and you cannot help. No one should feel guilty, can't save the world, no matter how hard you try! Believe you me, I have tried! Just my opinion!

As the rules were stated clearly when I joined, so are they stated for everyone! If she isn't dealing well on this board, chances she isn't dealing well in life and needs much more than we can give her. Sad, but true! My opinion!

Cheer up! You are a great group of woman, or I wouldn't waste my time with you! LOLOL [Big Grin]

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#63636 - 10/16/05 12:22 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
Can we drop this topic, please? It's beginning to smack of gossip for the one who left. I don't think that is fair. Okay...let's all let it go.

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#63637 - 10/16/05 05:21 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Searcher Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 645
Loc: boise
Dianne,

Before this topic is dropped, could I say but a few (ok I can never say a "few" of anything) words?

I was struck by what Lynn said in the beginning. I too, have noticed that this is certainly a culture in some stage of development (Lynn, I'd like to read that chapter - chapter of what?) I've not been here long enough to know how far along this "culture' is, but already I see there is some sort of "order". One theme that is definitley (sp? where is my dictionary, I've just moved ) present is that of Christianity. I've noticed this on many many occasions - at first I wasn't aware of this, but after reading just a few posts, I began to realize. I choose to not divulge my personal religious choice here (well, I have spoken of Blessings and perhaps maybe God {but it does not disturb me that some may call Her [men don't seem to be able to run the world very well, how can they run the universe?]something different, maybe Allah or Mother Earth}) because I don't want to disrupt the flow of good feelings. But I do see that this could cause some people problems. I was not here yet to be privvy to the Ladybug thing, but from what I could gather , this disturbed many. In "real life" these problems occur spontaneously and consistently. From what I have learned every culture has outcasts or people who don't "fit in". Look at America - the Katrina disaster which exposed our class system - America has ignored these "poor' people and can't even have them in their vocabulary of thoughts. And believe me they don't just exist in Louisiana. I believe that our language is paramount here. And this forum is testament of that. As some have said, we cannot see body language or smiles - frowns or confusion on faces. So language and how we use it is the only thing we have to make sense of things. (How important is language then? I hope if no one understands anything else about these forums, they will understand the importance of language - our words and how we use them have a profound effect on each other). It's my hope that we all, no matter where in the world we might call home, have come to the place where we can rise above the idea that outcasts are a permanent part of our society. Because together we can change this.

So. I am saying that I believe we can no longer ignore the outcasts (for whatever reason they are considered outcasts)in our world or in this forum. Maybe that's too strong a word for this forum - maybe I should say people with differing ideas.

One other thing - there was a thread where many of us were giving advice to another, including myself. But on reflection, I thought that maybe people were being too harsh with this person. We all have made mistakes in love and life and sometimes because of the great hurt it caused us, we are all the more forceful in our opinions about a similar event. But remember, we were slow to heal and needed a soft place to land. So I hope that we can all keep these thoughts in mind and not alienate anyone who really needs us.
And if we can see that someone needs more help than mere conversation can do, we need to say so. Is there a way that we could compile a list of therapists by area so that women could find ready help if they need it? Or at least assist them in some way?

I am still pleased to be a part of this - actually, I think it is an important bit of research on many levels and a whole lot of information could be derived for the benefit of all.....And hey, didn't we used to give the sign of peace? Or what was that tie/dye all about? And if you guys could see the afro I had in the 60's, me being pasty white and all you would LOL (or, Learning Odd Language).

Searcher

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#63638 - 10/16/05 07:20 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Princess Lenora Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 3503
Loc: Colorado
Yes, before we drop this topic I would have said what Eagle said to Lynn "I usually saw you as being in deep conversation with others here and often didn't want to intrude, especially on topics that I have no clue about" I come to BWS now as my reward for accomplishing what I "should" during the day. I am not able to read every post and respond. I am glad for Chatty taking note of what did not get a response. I too have felt that I killed a topic because I was the last one who posted on that subject. It's awful to think that anyone has felt invisible. Love and Light Lynn

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#63639 - 10/16/05 07:23 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Princess Lenora Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 3503
Loc: Colorado
I did not know we could do this that Eagle posted: "Having said that, I think that when a person leaves and takes their posts with them, it's possibly indicative of the anger and hurt they feel, but taking EVERYONE's posts (i.e., the entire thread) with them" I thought we could only delete our own posts through edit. Please advise. Thanks LLL

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#63640 - 10/16/05 07:32 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Princess Lenora Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 3503
Loc: Colorado
Western, this is my first fall in CO too. I love it here. I am so happy to be in CO. I'm in the springs, where are you? LLL

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#63641 - 10/16/05 06:16 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Danita Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 1550
Loc: Colorado
Lynn,

If a person starts a thread, and then deleates their posts - the whole thread goes away. IT is a technical glitch with the system. I talked to ladybug during/after this event, and she was VERY sorry that everyone else's post went away also. That wasn't her intention.

Good to see you back around!

danita

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#63642 - 10/16/05 06:54 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
I didn't mean to stop posting about forum rules, etc. I just didn't want to appear as gossiping about someone after they left.

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#63643 - 10/20/05 05:01 PM Re: topics that vanish?
DJ Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 1149
Loc: Ohio
Wow, talk about feeling invisible! Searcher, I'm the one who wrote the chapter, not Lynn! This past summer I interviewed some of the participants on this site and looked at ways that the dynamics here resemble culture formation. It's an academic book that's still in the works and I wanted to give back some of what I learned from doing it. I'm not yet sure if my chapter was accepted.

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#63644 - 10/20/05 06:07 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Searcher Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 645
Loc: boise
Please forgive me DJ. I am thinking that I was so caught up in your idea, that I made the mistake! Would love to know more about this and sincerely hope that your chapter is accepted.

Searcher

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#63645 - 10/20/05 09:45 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Lynn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 621
Loc: pennsylvania
DJ,

Can you tell us more about it? Anything that would enlighten us here?

Lynn

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#63646 - 10/21/05 10:14 AM Re: topics that vanish?
meredithbead Offline
The Divine Ms M

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 4894
Loc: Orange County, California
Lynn, I'm glad you're back with us. You know that you and your family are always in my prayers.

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#63647 - 10/21/05 04:40 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Lynn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 621
Loc: pennsylvania
Meredith, You are always a shining light, particularly on this dreary day on the east coast.

I find comfort knowing we are in your thoughts.

Lynn

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#63648 - 10/24/05 04:56 AM Re: topics that vanish?
DJ Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 1149
Loc: Ohio
Lynn asks if I can share something about my research on this site. Here's a brief thumbnail (the chapter I wrote was 5300 words, and I really had to edit a lot to make it fit). I've shared bits and pieces of this elsewhere: In terms of the current discussion, I can say this:

There's a BWS culture, and it's not for everyone. It's not a free-for-all which is one of the things that women like about it. For those who feel like they belong, BWS provides a safe haven where women commune with friends.

Rules were originally established by Dotsie, but are enforced by regular members in order to maintain the atmosphere that they prize here. Some of the more active regular members set the tone and also enforce protocols and standards.

The lack of nonverbal cues is an issue that is overcome in various ways (emoticons, etc.) but because of that lack as well as the linear nature of threads, participants may become alienated and depart the site. Other alienating factor (related to this) is the one of feeling ignored. That's a biggy. Some of the participants overcome this by personal messages with others here.

There is also a dominant ideology (set of beliefs), let's call it. Women who don't share the ideology may continue to participate, but don't always feel like they belong in the way that more active, regular participants do. They don't feel that same sense of "safety."

What's interesting is that the women who do feel the sense of safety and warmth seem to share a certain mindset with others here, which is what gives the group a certain solidarity. In other words, although there may be diversity in background, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, etc., there is a similarity in some dimensions like belief and attitude.

[ October 23, 2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: DJ ]

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#63649 - 10/24/05 06:57 AM Re: topics that vanish?
meredithbead Offline
The Divine Ms M

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 4894
Loc: Orange County, California
Lynn, [Embarrassed]

Thanks so much.

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#63650 - 10/26/05 05:02 PM Re: topics that vanish?
DJ Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 1149
Loc: Ohio
Okay, ladies. This is a good example of being ignored -- several of you asked to know something about the research, so I spent the time to put it here. And then... nothing. (also notice that the comment after mine is in answer to a previous comment). This happens to me over and over and over again on this web site. Fortunately, I've never come on here and asked for advice or help or been emotionally needy because, if so, I'd be pretty upset if this happened. As it is, I'm quite annoyed. In the past when I felt ignored, I deleted the post. I didn't delete this one because I interviewed women on here and wanted to give something back to the community.

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#63651 - 10/26/05 06:25 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
Actually, I was going to respond to your post yesterday but my door bell rang and I had unexpected company. [Mad]

So, I'll say what I was going to say yesterday. I think you are a very smart woman. I admire you for doing so much research, something I would never do. I appreciate that someone like you took the time to work on this piece and post part of it here.

I was interested that this is considered a culture. I had never thought of it that way. And, also how some feel safety here while others didn't. It gave me something to think about, which I needed.

I appreciate your work very much and I thank you for sharing it.

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#63652 - 10/26/05 06:46 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
DJ, I think what often happens here is we may post a question and then before a response comes, we have to walk away from the computer or go out. By the time we come back, other topics have come to the top of the active list and we start reading those and posting. May I even venture to say, some of us get senile (I mean me!) and forget what we've asked or what topic we were on previously. And I know we've all had posts that weren't responded to. We can't take it personally.
I'd also like to add something about the culture here. I think it is just typical of real life in that sometimes people tend to be "cliquey", not in a mean way, but just because they feel a bond with certain people, or they share interests and attitudes.
I also thank you for your research. [Smile]

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#63653 - 10/26/05 08:12 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
DJ, thanks for your research. What is the name of the book that you submitted this for?

Since I am the host of this site and beleive wholeheartedly in the mission I will share the following:

I know we have issues on occasion with people being ignored or misunderstood. I do not think it's intentional. I come here every day and spend 1-2 hours posting. For some reason I didn't even open this forum/topic until today. Naughty me. I do the best I can. I try to read every single post, and usually do, but I jump around. I'm probably ADD.

I have thought and prayed about this issue. The only thing I can come up with is paying women to monitor specific forums...and I can't do that right now. Maybe as the association continues to take off I will be able to do so.

In a perfect forum every woman would get:

-a thanks for registering email
-a message that stated "someone replied to your post at BWS"
-a reply to every post
-lots of PM's, etc.

Let me share this:

BWS is receiving 1.3 million hits for every 30 day period so I can venture to say that women love this site. Needs are being met. They lurk, take what suits them and their beliefs, tell friends, post, make friends, give and receive advice, and even go so far as to meet face to face!

I refuse to let the occasional negative comments outweigh all that is good at BWS. A few years ago I would have been striving for perfection. Now I know that's not possible, and it's okay. Onward.

[ October 26, 2005, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Dotsie ]

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#63654 - 10/26/05 09:21 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
"Lurk" Is that a southern term? My grandfather used it all the time!

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#63655 - 10/26/05 10:11 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Bluebird Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2560
Loc: Pagosa Springs, Colorado
1.3 million hits every 30 days is nothing short of amazing, Dotsie!

Onward, indeed. [Cool]

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#63656 - 10/26/05 10:19 PM Re: topics that vanish?
chickadee Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 3910
Loc: Alabama
DJ, I read your post yesterday and took it as an info statement. I thought it was quite interesting and went on about getting to my "other" posts that I was checking on for replies/to reply to etc. Not too many. Good, I thought. I monitor 2 posts and keep an eye on another here. If you check my "view recent posts" you will notice that I am the last poster to many of them. I treat this as a "closed" topic unless I have something else to say.
Being the last poster to a topic or not having one answered is going to happen, especially now with all the newbies, even with monitors...

If I need an answer, I will speak up. If I don't, it's no biggie.

I am not easily offended -do you think that has something to do with people leaving? Did you have any indiction of this in your research?

I am commenting on your posts today for 2 reasons.
1. It got me wondering - hence, my questions to you .
2. If you felt offended ( whether you were or not) I felt I needed to explain. It's what I do.

I think we need to write a boomer creed and add...i.e.

If I'm not being (noticed?)
but info I need to gain.
I'll state it in my next post
I will rattle a chain.(I know, hey it's the best I can come up with right now, but 'you get my drift?"

Dotsie, here's a suggestion -
Have a contest to write a "BWS" creed that we can put on the site. A newbie's creed? Heck I don't know. There has to be a way...

I honestly feel that BWS is like real life...people meet, take what they want, give what they want and either stay or move on. Some speak their mind and some stay quiet. Some are leaders, some are followers and some are not, I guess.

DJ, do you check for unanswered posts often? I try. I believe Chatty is really good at that. She's hitting at a couple of thousand posts. Way to go Chatty. It has to take a lot of time. i don't always have it.

Just my two bits.
chick

[ October 26, 2005, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: chickadee ]

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#63657 - 10/26/05 10:46 PM Re: topics that vanish?
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
Thanks chickadee and actually its over 4127 and rising....and yes it does take alot of time. I am on the site sometimes from morning till early evening trying to answer posts and make sure none get posted over before they have a chance to get those replys. Plus I monitor several topics and watch them closely. DJ everytime you asked a question for your research it seemed the response was super. I also thought your latest post was in answer to someone asking what, why the research and you were explaining. There are times when it seems my name is on everything and I fear others will say, "oh here she is again." Hey its a dirty but someone has to do it, he, he!!! All any of us can do is do our best to treat others the way we ourselves want to be treated. If you see a new post give it a chance before jumping on top of it, thats just rude. This is after all suppose to be fun as well as informational and helpful. A word comes to mind for this situation and that word is RELAX, enjoy yourselves, have some fun... [Big Grin]

[ October 26, 2005, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

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#63658 - 10/26/05 11:57 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Pattyann Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 245
Loc: Ocala Florida
DJ
I think you have really defined this website. I especially related to the issue of safety here. If someone is particularly sensitive and a little different they could not be comfortable here.But sometimes it takes women who are a little different to open up a whole wide wonderful world out there.
DJ you are one smart woman

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#63659 - 10/27/05 12:15 AM Re: topics that vanish?
chickadee Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 3910
Loc: Alabama
who has made a difference here. [Big Grin]
chick

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#63660 - 10/27/05 01:10 AM Re: topics that vanish?
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
Hoorah for that!!!

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#63661 - 10/27/05 07:31 AM Re: topics that vanish?
TVC15 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 2538
Loc: North Carolina
Thank you DJ. I was wondering what you were doing with all of the research.

I'd like to add a couple cents here though.
What I like so much about this forum is that it is a continuing conversation of many different minds from all over the world. It is here 24/7 for anyone that needs it. In that regard, I may post a question at 7am eastern time and not get back here for another two hours or two days, for that matter, but I can still follow the posts and get answerswhenever I do get back here.

Yes I know sometimes people don't get answers, but then maybe none of us knows what the best way to answer is. We need to appreciate that sometimes no one knows what to say and instead of giving bad advice, they give no advice.

I bring this up because I have two sons and one computer, sometimes I just can't get back online.

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#63662 - 10/28/05 03:38 AM Re: topics that vanish?
DJ Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 1149
Loc: Ohio
I appreciate the kind words. Thank you.

Dots -- I don't think you should worry about negative comments or people who don't want to stay on BWS. After all, millions watch baseball, but not everyone wants to play it.

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#63663 - 10/28/05 11:07 AM Re: topics that vanish?
meredithbead Offline
The Divine Ms M

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 4894
Loc: Orange County, California
great analogy [Wink]

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#63664 - 10/28/05 06:17 PM Re: topics that vanish?
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
DJ, great point. Thanks for sharing.

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#63665 - 10/29/05 05:10 AM Re: topics that vanish?
Lynn Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 621
Loc: pennsylvania
DJ, I learned something here. I understand how someone can get "ignored" (innocently) by a person that is interested, iniated the question, and had life come swooping down for a few days and forgot not only about the question but the forums entirely.

I was very interested in your response when I asked and had hoped you would come on soon but it took time "because we were not having a converstion as we know it" outside of cyberspace.

My last 20 years were in an environement that worked with and trained all employees on culture, societal norms etc.

I love your stuff, it takes my training and gives it meat. You are succinct and very close to the philosophy under which I was trained.

With all that said, I apologize for making you feel ignored-I was the initiator of this tangent we are on, plus initating the question to you that prompted this topic admits I should have done better as a friend. I am sorry.

But much thanks for a great write up it was fun and fascinating to read.

Lynn

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#63666 - 10/29/05 05:40 PM Re: topics that vanish?
DJ Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 1149
Loc: Ohio
you're right, Lynn. Things do have a habit of getting in the way and demanding our attention. And thanks for the encouragement. I hope the editors feel the same way about the submission!

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