Let's put the seniors in jail, and the criminals in a nursing home.

This way the seniors would have access to showers, hobbies, and walks, they'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment , wheel chairs etc. and they'd receive money instead of paying it out.

They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance. Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them.

A guard would check on them every 20 minutes, and bring their meals and snacks to their cell.

They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose.

They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counseling, pool, and education. Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, P.J.'s and legal aid would be free, on request.

Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens.

Each senior could have a P.C. a T.V. radio, and daily phone calls. There would be a board of directors, to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct, that would be strictly adhered to.

The "criminals" would get cold food, be left all alone, and unsupervised. Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room, and pay $5000.00 per month and have no hope of ever getting out.

Justice for all.

So true, and so sad. As I wipe tears from my eyes, I am reminded of my own mother. She was missing for over 12 hours before she was "missing". This never would have happened in a prison. Although that much attention would have driven her crazy.

We have many injustices in our systems, and this is a good example of one.

Makes me sick and should make us all sick. Now some stupid women running for office wants to give these damm criminals massages, can you believe that one.

I think all criminals shpould have to spend at least 6 months in the Arizona Jail Town run by Sheriff Joe Aprio... Now thats a man that knows how to run a jail/prison. No prisioner wants to get caught in Arizona and ebd up in his custody. I LOVE THIS MAN...and if you google him you'll understand why. He knows how to make a criminal regret his choice of crime every minute of every day, no coddling them in his custody.

Wow, JJ..that was hefty.

Read this to my mom today and she was totally in agreement and truly ticked off... I am sending her a copy to show her resident friends.

Jawjaw,
I agree with everything you posted. Prisoners have it better than our seniors! What a crock of crackers that is!

Makes you wonder if the folks who are crying for the rights of criminals, are the same ones who are letting their parents suffer.

Most likely!

Now thats a thought and and I bet your correct in your assumptions Meredith. It's always the DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO who flap their big mouths and then do nothing themselves.

Where my friend is living, in a County Home facility, I've gotten
to know many of the residents. Their families put them in there
and then never visit. And such sweet folks, closed away and
never bothered with again. This segment of society really gets
a raw deal; many of these people, there's nothing wrong with
them. It's just that nobody wants to be bothered with having
'em around. And that's a heartbreaking concept. Only about 1/5th
of them have visitors, that includes the holidays. What a crock
of crackers this is. It breaks my pea-pickln' heart!

I was wondering if when a persons kids want to get rid of their parents or are truly doing it for their best interest, if it is mandatory for the oldsters to remain in a home? What if they want to stay in their own place? Can they? If not sounds like going to prison for having done nothing but get old.

It depends if the kids have Power of Attorney and the kids are
nice people. Now WB has POA, but his mom lives alone in her
home and he keeps the place functioning for her. But if a person has mean kids and they have POA or has talked the parent
into giving them POA, those elderly darlin's' don't have a prayer in h__l, of having their wishes heard. They're locked away until they go to be with The Lord. People, if you sign over Power of Attorney to someone, make sure you can trust that person and your choice of POA will listen to your wishes! Some offspring are only in it for your assests! Be alert! Be careful! Please!!! luv, prayers and best wishes!

JJ, this is a fascinating and thought-provoking discussion you have started. Thanks for that!

I am just getting to know this whole sad story first hand. My mother had hip-replacement surgery as some of you know, back about 8 weeks ago. After her 3 days in the hospital, Medicare sent her on to a nursing home, as she wasn't yet ready to return home.

This was a very nice place, and part of an aging in place facility that she and her husband actually want to move to.

Even so, as I would talk to her daily, I was amazed at the treatment. Oh, nothing that she was complaining about, just stuff like they get put to bed by 9 PM because that is most convenient for the staff.

Or, the stories she told me about things like trading shower days with a friend so that she would be able to have a shower the night before she was going to see the doctor...

I of course, am so used to living life as I want to, taking for granted little things like -- eating when and what I choose, going to bed when I decide it is time, washing my hair when I decide it needs it, calling my kids whenever the desire arises, and watching TV when and where I want to, not to mention choosing the shows I will see -- I can't imagine what it would be like to lose these the opportunity to make these simple choices at will.

As you suggest JJ, I think prisoners get more choices in these matters than do persons in nursing homes.

The home care an older person gets after hospitisation..seems run by non feeling staff.simply for profit.
My older friend when returning home had a tuck in service for bed..as well as food delivered.The food..she was last being most recently discharged meant just that..last.so 1.30 lunch..when she had waited as instructed from 12.15..
worst ..was the bed time..6.30..and she just went along with this..it meant a very long night..I cannot comprehend going to bed at 6.30pm nor should she have had to..in time she graduated to 8.00pm. More staff ratio could have been a solution.

.she is now in a care home where times are more civilised.her son pays for this and it appears to be good care.
I have high regard for this woman..and as I live at a distance could not help more than visit..but if she had still been next door I know I would have done the tucking up service myself..as it was I just felt so sad..

I agree. Some staffers caring for the elderly seem to be cold
and heartless. And it's heartbreaking to watch!

I agree that staffing at nursing homes is horribly limited - and it's only going to get worse.

but please don't put a guilt trip on those of us who HAD to put our parents in a nursing home. My mother broke her hip (and she'd already had several strokes) and I simply could NOT care for her at home. I still had three children who were school age, I couldn't lift and turn her, there was no choice. We visited her every day but there was so little we could do. Six years later, I still cry when I remember.

Carolyn

Been reading a great book by Laurel Kennedy called "The Daughter Trap: Taking Care of Mom and Dad...and You."

I will be writing my review on it this evening and the link will be in the Monthly as well as posted online ASAP...

I highly recommend this book. With almost 80% of us working outside the home these days, we who have to juggle family, careers and eldercare responsibilities need places to turn to for help. She's got concrete and actionable solutions with takeaway lessons we can actually apply in real life.

Great book!

I look forward to the review. I remember Laurel. I love the title she chose. It's perfect! The title alone should sell books.

dejavu,
Not trying to put a guilt trip on anyone. Every few days I
visit the nursing home, but the situation I'm involved in is
very unique and totally outside the norm. If I sound like I'm
blaming anyone, that is not the intent. I apologize if that's
how it sounds.

I know people work. And I know people need to provide care for
their seniors. I've seen many of these nursing home care-givers
who are wonderful people. They're bighearted and truly try to do a good job. It's the exceptions to the rule, which make outsiders shutter a mite.

One big problem is that EVERYTHING is controlled by what Medicare will pay for - from the number of nurses per patient, to how many people get mattress covers that reduce bedsores, EVERYTHING. and it's only going to get worse when we BabyBoomers start needing care. We generlly have fewer children to help, and the ones we have may be spread further apart geographically. There'll be many more of us at one time, so that's going to be a challenge, too. Personally, I hope to do everything possible so that I never have to go to a nursing home.

I hear what you're saying. That's why I exercise and walk so much, hoping to keep major body parts functioning better, longer.
That's the plan, anyway.

There was a recent news article that reported on doctors and
nurses sending bogus bills to Medicare. Several of those people
were arrested, etc. Criminal activity doesn't help anything.

IMO, if all the criminal activity and waste were clean out of
the economy, we wouldn't have all the problems, which currently
exist. Health Care Costs are too high; Company CEO's do not need
to be paid millions and millions of dollars a year, nobody is
worth that kind of compensation.

I'm interested in your view of jails. I agree a bit with the concern about nursing homes, but I'm curious how many posting here have been in jail? (Don't need to raise your hands...;))

I guess I don't keep up much with news, but the jail I visited was nothing like you described. No computers for certain. Nothing for the women to do all day but chat with one another. A small basketball court with two balls. The guards weren't exactly what I'd call friendly. (One lady got yelled at for following the guard too close up the stairs.) And that was a minimum security prison.... Oh, not much shower options and definitely no pools. One tiny little window at the top and that's it.

Money is spent on nursing homes to make them as comfortable as possible, to provide nursing for their health, etc. And yes, it's way expensive. My 99 year old grandmother had to be put in a nursing home six months ago for the first time and we hate that she has to be there, but it is no longer possible to keep her at home. Her daughter bought a house a few blocks away and one of her grand-daughters is a nurse there. Comparatively she gets great care, but no, it's not like living at home - at all.

We Americans are a wee bit spoiled in my opinion. We live in a great "Have it my Way" Burger King/McD's generation - most of the world around us does not have that option. In our great affluence, I wonder if we (self included, I've seen my Starbucks bill) haven't lost sight a bit of "reality" as seen by the other 3/4 of the world. We complain when we don't have enough living space. As bad as the economy has been, not too many of us (yes, yes, some have) have had to put three families in one house - or even two for that matter. Our poor can get access to running water and shelter and clothes, food at food banks, etc.

Someone once said, "If we have food and clothing, we should be content with that." Why? Because in reality relationships (including relationship with God) and people are where true treasures lie - not in things that quickly are destroyed. My love (hubby) spent four years in a tribe in Africa. I've never been that far, but I've seen enough here to think I need to beware of my own tendency to greed.
* * * *

Children are a wonderful blessing. Perhaps my life was harder than some (and definitely easier than others); I never regretted pregnancy, nor labor, nor changing diapers. Life isn't about my likes and dislikes. I had kids! Wonderful, amazing kids with eyes and a nose and a mouth (oh, yeah - got mom's mouth....) They are AWESOME because - well, because they are themselves. The other little stuff, the thorns and pricklies, the occasional heartbreaks and tears are SO worth it, because they (my kids) are in my life. We Americans all too often seem to cherish the temporary and neglect what is important and lasts. If the rose pokes us, we prefer to pull it up by the roots, rather than continue to enjoy it's perfume. People are amazing and wonderful, when we take time to enjoy them. Some need more love than others and some (ok, all) tend to malfunction at times, but that doesn't make them less incredible and amazing.

Parents are amazing. Your mom gave you birth - and by now, most of us are blessed to know that that was no easy thing! Far harder than that, our parents raised us. Yeah, they made mistakes. (I'm glad my daughters are quick to forgive....) We made mistakes when we were kids, too.

So now comes the most amazing thing of all - we get to love them all over again. We get to love them like they loved us when we were little. This isn't a negative and it hurts me to see older people think that they will be a burden. They are not. Yes, some of us have little kids and can't do as much as we'd like for them (our elders), but where there is love, love finds the doors and windows needed - whether through friends or other relatives or perhaps just letting go of what we thought was important to allow what IS important to take root and grow. I do not think it should be a guilt trip if someone is "just" caring for physical needs. A father working 3 jobs to put food on the table should NOT be condemned for not spending enough time with the kids. If he's putting all his time into a big house that is not needed or fancy car, etc, then yes, he should realize it's the kids that are important (not the car or the sports or whatever.)

* * * *
I don't think prisons are that great. My friends' brother spent some serious time and the letters he wrote of the horrors he endured and survived aren't repeatable here.

But if the nursing home "system" needs changing, then change it. Start today. Four or five of you create a group and start brainstorming. The group will grow. How can more volunteers be added to offset the workload on the nurses? (A friend is a nurse for a nursing home. She has a 6 year old. She has told me time and time again she is going to quit because her 40 hour week became a permanent 55 - 60 hour week. She gets exhausted. But inevitably when I ask, Did you quit? She answers, No. I can't, because they (the people living there) really need me there.)

What can be done to evaluate nurses within a nursing home on a FAIR scale? For kindness, thoughtfulness, etc in addition to quality checks. A lot of places they are overworked. (Maayybe, we can train our teens and young adults to spend less time watching tv and playing video games and more time volunteering....Of course, "training" means we are involved.)Is the nurse working a 40- 50 hour week with occasional long shifts or is she/he overworked (and thus short tempered)? Are they trying to "survive" keep the patients alive and physically healthy, but not ABLE (NOT, not willing) to care for their comforts, etc? What things (such as bedtimes) could be turned over to volunteers? Can boy scouts, girl scouts, schools get involved? Make a goal that every person who can handle it gets at least 5 hours a day interaction with another person. If our parents aren't near to us, who can we find (churches, etc) to commit to visit them daily - can we trade for someone else's mom?

It's REALLY easy to say what needs to be changed (cough, cough, of course **I** don't need to change anything in **me** - please note my sarcasm), but not worth much if we're not willing to - without pride and boasting - go in and make the difference. (Please realize I'm speaking to myself as well.)

Internet makes it easy. Create the equivalent of a workable "franchise" styled plan for change in the nursing homes. Build the concepts as you would a business, then get volunteers to help with the legal end, etc. Then start implementing it one nursing home at a time, with the goal of having all nursing homes across America connected with helpers through this non-profit organization (that you started) by the time WE need to get in a nursing home....;)just joking.)

You should have no problem finding volunteers to help with this since most people have a good chance of ending UP in a nursing home.

* * * *
The other change is to care for our children, if we can. (People coming out of abuse, sickness etc, need healing first, but again, love finds a way.) What love we lavish on our children is the love we will receive from them. If we've wronged them, today is a good day to start making amends. But we have to be honest.

We have taught our young people that not caring too much is ok. That it's ok if we're not getting along with our spouses (not talking abuse here) we can get divorced. We don't see divorce as a great, horrible painful evil that is akin to death. It's "just divorce." So the pain caused to the children and to ourselves and spouses is done and like the nerves in our bodies that slowly deaden when we burn them bit by bit, our "love nerves" that once told us of pain and danger no longer work as well as they should, because little by little we've ignored the pain. The problem is that eventually the destruction is manifest in far more serious ways. A child was second place to the job, the music, the "whatever" (instead of the job and the music, etc being FOR the child and spouse, it became a means of self-exultation, self worth and pride) and so the child learned to ignore his/her pain. Then the parents' pain comes along, but the child has lost the capability to feel as he/she should.

These things never take my posts cause they're always too long....anyone wanting to give me free "concise" lessons, just let me know....!:)

WELCOME Christa to our cyber home. Your post is quite long and I rarely if ever read the long ones in their entirety but I did this one. It was very interesting and if I knew how and had your permission, I'd put it on my blog for today as from a visiting writer. You are very interesting, and if you don't already write, you certainly should. Looking forward to hearing more from you in days to come...

My heart is lifted with such a passionate post..
agree wholeheartedly that what we give out we get back.However it is said...wrapped up in quotes for that day.
and old age has to be quality life..we will all be there one day God Willing.if not our loved ones will be coping without us..and some folks are ill due to being stuck in a hurt rut due to the loss of their Mother or Father when all they need do is honour their very existence.Show regard and respect.
poor people exist...some children are hungry as I write..some nations are rich and some poor..We know this...still some throw food away.
so welcome Christa and thank you for such a clear view of what is in your heart.

Re reading your post Christa..
Many people who gather for whatever reasons...political..through shared interests or their professional status such as social workers have as their mission statement several of your topics.So when they gather they have discussed and agreed that all you say is on their agenda.

I do think that in the busy mainstream world it is easy to live in the present and like death thoughts of old age is put on a back burner..not high on the threshold of thinking until the situation arises.

I have had elders to care for early in my adult life had an early career caring for children in education settings so I understand and have experience outwith family.
Legislation does cover professional guildines but low pay for care workers who do the hands on care verus managment salaries is an ongoing issue.The concept of anyone can be a care worker without training is a biggy and wrong.

Christa,
Welcome. Apparently this thread hit a nerve. Sorry 'bout that.
I think it was started as a bit of lighthearted verbage. Somewhere along the line, it took on a more serious tone. No. I cannot comment on jails. I've never been in a jail. I've never
visited a jail. But for the past 5 plus years I've visited a
nursing home. On a scale of 1 to 10, it's considered an 11, with
1 being the best. I think there are about 600 residents and over
500 never have a visitor. That includes the Holidays. In 2005, 2006, and 2007 I went everyday. The past year or so, I go a couple times a week. I've seen my friend's family members, 3 times in over 5 years. Those around her don't have any visitors.
If the residents own families don't visit, how can people assume
strangers would give a hoot? I do like your compassion and fervor. Prayers and blessings! Look forward to reading more of your posts!

Dont understand why you think this new poster has hit a nerve Jabber.Could you clarify..

MA,
Only because of her extensiveness. She really elaborates and that made me think perhaps some of what was previously posted may have annoyed her senses a bit. That's all. This is a touchy subject but I sensed the thread wasn't meant to get heavy. Though I could be wrong. Believe me, MA, I've been wrong before! Prayers and blessings,

I see Christa as presenting well thought out responses.Its always good to see new people here.

A belated welcome Christa.

MA,
You are right. She does have well thought out responses. May be
it was the day, or the mood, or whatever. Welcome Christa and
please forget about my "nerve hitting" comment. I'm the one with
frailed nerves, for sure.

Welcome Christa and thanks for such a thoughtful response. You've got me thinking. I'm now running to see your other posts. I hope there are some!

Darn. This is Christa's only post. If you are reading, I hope you'll join in the other forums too.

Thank you Dotsie for being as always kind welcoming and open.

To have the ability to imagine what a new poster makes of the BWS is something valuable.

MA,
I meant to be welcoming; sure hope I didn't sound unwelcoming.
It just seemed like such an important subject to Christa, I suppose that's why I thought she seemed sensitive to this thread.
And I guess since I and probably others haven't been in a women's
prison, we shouldn't have commented so lightly about that segment of society. I do think Christa, you'll make a great poster and great addition to this Internet family. Blessings,

Christa, I dropped back into this thread to say that your post had a profound impact on me. I read it early yesterday, and so much of it continues to stay with me. I was telling my hubby about it over lunch today, and I realized again how life-giving your words are. We too have travelled to very poor countries and seen first-hand how they could easily live on what we here in North America throw away. So many of our beautiful dear friends in Cuba, for example, have no running water, one lightbulb to light an entire house (but only when the electricity actually works), a small one-burner stove on which to cook and entire meal for the whole family, one pair of shoes (often well-worn and ragged), and the list goes on. We bring lots of stuff to them, and they are so grateful. One picture that forever stays in my mind is when we give them brand-new clothing (especially underwear) and they SMELL it and their eyes light up with such pleasure at the smell of new clothes.

Thank you for your post, and your reminder of just how rich we truly are. There are ALWAYS others better off and always others poorer off than we are. One beautiful lesson we've learned from spending so much time with our "poorer" friends is that there's always enough to share. They have so little, and yet they love and cherish being able to share what little they have with us.

Your words continue to impact me, and I thank you for the enrichment they bring to my heart and mind.

I read a poem once about that idea: there are always people
richer and always people poorer than we are. As I remember, it went on to say how we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.
I read those words a long time ago and can't recall the name of
that poem. But I get the gist of what you're saying, Eagle.
And agree, wholeheartedly!

Caring for the elderly is a very difficult job; it takes special
people with a heart full of dedication to be successful at it!
God bless the caregivers!

I visied the nursing home today where my friend has been for over five years now and still remains. Ever go into a nursing
facility and just look around at the faces of those residing
therein. You see some beautiful faces. And when I stop and
think of the lives they've led, it's heartwarming to reflect
on the places they've been and the things they've contributed
to the world. God bless all the seniors of the world!

Stumbled over this thread again trying to add some filler and it made me laugh out loud so I figured maybe it would do the same for you all.

Well, Chatty, I went back through some of it. Not sure what
you're laughing at. I've never been in a jail, so I can't comment on that or I shouldn't, if I did. But over these past
6 years, I've been in lots of nursing homes, from the upscale to the county poor. And I've witnessed residents who've been
admitted and forgotten about. Some shouldn't even be where they
are. Their families don't want any part of them, they put these
people in a county home, and never visit them again. I got in trouble because people thought I visited my friend too much.
But I know in my heart, if the tables were turned, she would've
visited me as much, if not more. And I've seen reports on TV
News Magazines, where jails were outfitted like vacation resorts.
AND THAT'S THE TRUTH!!!

Have you seen ot heard of the new prison in, I believe it's Peoria, Illinois??? You would dirty your nickers. It looks just like a country club, and the truth now, if I were a man and homeless I would comnmit a crime just to be sent there. It is absolutely discusting...The cells have screen doors to the outside and they have chefs making meals... NO baloney sandwiches there. Check it out!

Chatty,
I've seen TV documentaries about fancy prisons over the last
several years. Guess that's where I got the idea those [JAIL] facilities were on par WITH some country clubs. Pun intended!

Chatty, Jabber and all,

I got interested in Chatty's discussion of palatial prisons because I live about 30 minutes from the Thompson Correctional Center in Thompson, Illinois. This is a prison former IL Gov. Rob Blagoyovich (sorry, I am sure that is spelled wrong) built in Northern Illinois in about 2002.

It is said to be much needed, as some of the State's existing prisons date from the late 1800's and are really costly to run -- not to mention obsolete. But once the prison was built, it developed the State had not budgeted money to staff it, so it has sat virtually empty since then.

Recently it came to national attention when Obama suggested moving the Gitmo detainees there... Though last I heard, I believe the Feds may still buy it, but it won't house the Gitmo prisoners, thank the Lord... Here's an article from a paper in the area, which I am sure is fairly reliable, discussing the current plans: Selling Thompson Prison to the Feds

Anyway, long story short, I had never heard that this was a palatial prison, so I went looking for more info.

And I came up with a clarifying article from good ol' Snopes, which I think will clear all of this up. The Snopes article, which I have linked to below, says this palatial prison DOES exist, but it is not located in the US, though various stories have been written saying that it is in Chicago -- the new Cook County Correctional Center -- or Peoria, IL.

Actually it is located in AUSTRIA. So we can't blame this one on Obama or any other US-based politico.

Here is the Snopes link, which hopefully should clarify things: Palatial Prison And, based on the supplied pictures, I would say it looks like a nice place...

I don't think they should build palace-type prisons; where's the
punishment factor in that?