divorce financial shenanigans

Whew! I am so angry! I had a meeting last week with both attorneys and the soon-to-be-ex, and once again the husband and his evil lawyer made promises to me (in order to avoid going in front of the magistrate, is my best guess)that they are already renegging on. What is the use of these financial meetings if they cannot be reinforced?

I am literally at the jerk's mercy for money to live on. Does anybody have any suggestions? Help!

get all the promises in writing.

Maybe you should go to the magistrate after all.

I'm with Meredith. They are probably worried the magistrate will side with you.

I think you know the answer to the question foundhervoice. Unless something is in writing never trust a lawyer and certainly not the soon to be ex who is looking out for himself and not you. Listen to Meredith and Dianne and go see the Magistrate before its a done deal and too late for you.

The problem is that everything IS in writing and that has not stopped them from using delay tactics. They still haven't complied with things they agreed to last August.

Is my lawyer messing up?

No, it's a tactic of your husband and his lawyer to stall, hoping you will get scared or tired of the battle and give up everything. My ex drug out divorce out for over a year and we weren't even fighting over anything. We had nothing!

Your atty can't do anything to stop the stalling. Face it, men believe that women will get scared. They try to use it against us. We don't like to go to war. They do. Just wait and let your atty get emotional about this. This is why you pay him.

P.S. Can you get temporary support in the meantime?

I usually agree with Dianne and do about their stall tactics but seems to me your lawyer isn't doing his best and if he is, you may need a new lawyer....

Sorry - i have not had a chance to check the posts over the last few days and was really happy and grateful to see your responses when I logged on today.

The current attorney is actually a female, and my third lawyer to date. The first one was a man who was supposed to be a snake...he told me to give up trying to protect my kids from their dad because the laws in Colorado were too difficult and favored equal parenting time unless the father was a heroin addict and convicted child molester. Just being a terrible absentee dad with documented poor decision making abilities that endangered his children's lives would not be sufficient to get me sole or even primary custody of my kids. He also advised me to give my husband anything he asked for monetarily because it was more important to get free of the jerk and move on with my life. i fired him.

The next lawyer was a pretty sharp woman whose aggressive tendencies turned to mush soon after she got pregnant. I started getting the feeling that she was letting too many important things slide so I showed her work to several other attorneys for their professional opinion. That's when i started looking for a new lawyer.

This latest one started out being very aggressive and looked like the kind of professional who could give the husband and his evil henchman a run for their money. But lately she too seems to be more concerned about being seen as fair than going on the offensive. Maybe I'm being too unrealistic about the situation or have too high expectations after watching too much television court drama, but i find it hard to believe that a judge would allow a man to get away with not paying child or spousal support, when there is proof that he is capable of working and that he has systematically hidden assets to make it look like he has no money. Am i being naive here or what?

A good judge would make a man get a job and support his children.

I am no help here. I wish I was. There are many divorced women who I hope will jump in and share their opinion.

My thinking still is get a good lawyer. You try on many shoes to find the best fit right? Isn't a good mean agressive lawyer as important as a good pair of shoes? Let them know going in you want a shark, you're tired of guppies.

If you have preliminary signed agreements as to child support payments,at least in the interim before a divorce is final, seems to me that if he's not paying it, your lawyer should be filing for contempt of court...if you don't have any signed documents that are enforcable in court, seems to me that you ought to get a lawyer that'll get this step done..i wouldn't be looking for maintenance support from him, unless you're incapable of working, but he ought to be paying his share of kids' needs...but i love the trying on shoes analogy..a good lawyer is ethical, most lawyers are, but remember his lawyer is working for your husband, so that attorney is not looking out for your best interests..boy, did i ramble on here or what!

Another thought is to get a lawyer who is known for representing women. Why not? The guys often go to the lawyers who really know how to stick it to the women.

I did exactly that. my new attorney has a good reputation...maybe I'm hoping for too much too soon? We do not have any interim support orders because the husband is technically unemployed even though he is capable of getting a job and working. He quit his previous job and is doing this on purpose to avoid paying child and/or spousal support. I found out today from a reliable source that he planned this whole thing for a least a year and a half before he filed for divorce. So he's had a gameplan and a checklist for a while. None of this has happened by accident. Boy do I feel like an idiot. All the time I was showing him love and support in finding a job, helping him write his resume, editting his email inquiries and thank you notes for him, he was plotting how to divorce me without having to give me any support after 20 years of marriage and child raising...I must have been blind.

But that does not change the fact that for now he is getting away with it and I am outraged. Where's the First Wives' Club when you need it?

I think you found your First Wives Club right here.

I don't think a judge will let him get away with this. How can he support himself with no job? How is he surviving?

You shouldn't feel that you were ignorant for trying to help him. You did what any good wife would do. He's the idiot.

Make sure the attorney you now have makes any agreement during the actual divorce commencerate for when he goes back to work. in other words he has to pay child support and bac k chilkd support once he gets a job and he MUST get work within a reasonable time. The lawyer can and should put this in any settlement papers before you sign a thing...some judges will also make the ex pay back the spousal support you haven't gotten due to his plan... I hope they fry this fish!!!The hotter the grease the better...Lets me see, in the First Wives Club I would be Bette Midlers character...LOL

Boy! You sound so much like me! I have felt exactly how you are feeling as far as the attorneys go. I too have gone thru 3 different attorneys. The last one would get me all fired up about what we need to do and then he wouldn't do it. I would ask him to do certain things... and he agreed and then wouldn't do it, making my situation worse. He'd make excuses and back pedal. So, as much hassel as it is, I found another one. I am hoping this one goes well. As for temporary support, I do believe there is a way to get that. Go to your local court house and ask around. I know when you get a restraining order, you can also ask for temporary support. I believe when you file for a divorce, before it is final you can also file for and be awarded temporary support. You need to be supported. In times like this, and maybe I'm a bad mom to think this, but I would feel like dumping the kids on him and say, hey, you take care of them so I can go to work! I mean really, why does the woman get stuck with the kids and no support while the man hoards his money and doesn't take any responsibility for tending to the children. It's crazy. They are his children too. He needs either to support you or take them off your hands once in awhile so you can work. Especially if he's not working! Men just tick me off. I have no interest in ever being in a marriage with a man again! They seem to all be the same as I listen to story after story of the same sort of plight women get stuck in with men.
Best of luck.

He's probably living off the money he's hoarded and invested.

I had the same expectations of my attorneys and wondered if I too had too high of expectations because of tv shows etc.!

I think we women are just so not in the same space as men and this whole process just takes us all for a loop! It stresses us out, they drag things on, they play difficult or tell their attornies not to cooperate with your attorney....making the process long and painful. They also try to intimidate and scare us.To them it is a game to be won. We just don't see it that way at all. We are in in for survival and our children, they see it as war. We just want to get on with our lives but we do have our children to care for since they don't seem to want the responsibility of the day to day care and they don't want to pay for it either which is the problem.

Diane -

You've asked a really good question: how IS he paying for things? A few months ago I found out that he has an investment account that he managed to keep hidden from me (boy, do I feel dumb, but it is not in my nature to be suspicious), and whatever joint investments we have made over the years were not registered in my name, even though i distinctly recall having signed the ownership documents. Some of these have been uncovered, and my understanding is that he is not allowed to use them until the court decides how much of it is rightfully mine since we have been together for 20 years. Predictably, he is contesting it altogether, and my lawyer is pretty sure that he has found a way to siphon them and has been doing so for quite some time. The trick now is what to do in the meantime for money until the litigation is over, and afterwards in case things do not go my way (which, believe it or not is not impossible, from what other women in my position have told me). I found part-time seasonal work which is a starting place for sure, but the pay is really terrible and won't even cover my heating bills for the month.

SJ -

What I keep hearing over and over again is that in a divorce, most women want to be fair, whereas most men want to win. I guess that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I am soooo sorry to hear that you are going through this as well. I'm with you, though, I don't understand how a man can sidestep his children and lose his personal integrity in the name of the almighty buck! It would seem to me that he would want to do the honorable things and make sure that we are provided for, considering he was the one who filed for divorce and I was the faithful, supportive wife to the bitter end. I guess there is no longer a social stigma attached to a father who won't even support his own kids. We already know that very few people put a value on raising children and providing general support to the family unit. That does not speak well of our society, does it?

In any event, please feel free to sound off any time. Female support is the number one thing holding me together these days, and I am happy to be there for you.

I'm learning that it is critical to separate your hurt feelings from this whole thing and treat it like a business venture. The trick is to remain centered and concentrate on getting justice because our entire financial future depends on it. Success will be the best revenge.

May we both find it!

foundhervoiceatlast, please don't consider yourself dumb. Being the trusting, loving soul is the honorable thing to do.

I hope you and SJ can be of support to one another during this difficult time. Be strong, stay confident, and don't back down.

I haven't given an update lately on my divorce so here's the latest. (For those who don't remember, I was married 24 yrs to a man who turned out to be gay and was being investigated by the FBI for downloading child porn)

He has delayed the court date 4 times. It has now been 1 year and 1 month since the sheriff first arrived with a search warrant--my first visit to an attorney was the same day.

The house hasn't sold and the lisitng agreement ran out. I relisted with a different company hoping to get better results. By law he has to sign the listing agreement. It came back signed--with an addendum sheet!
1. Not only will we look at offers for straight sales, we will look at contract for deed, lease purchase, rental, land sale--this keeps me at risk since my name has to stay on the mortgage.
2. He has to be informed 24 hrs. BEFORE anyone looks at the house. That will knock out anyone who drives by, or is in town for a weekend to look at houses.
3. He will be informed how any showing went within 48 hrs.
4. All open houses must be approved 1 week in advance by him. No other reasons for going to house without a 1 week in advance ok by him.
5. If I don't give him a key tothe house by Dec. 9th the contract to list the house is void!

He continues to tie my hands to get the house sold and get away from him. He hasn't helped pay a single bill since he left town yet..I am supposed to allow him to set the terms by which the house is sold?

And any unconventional sale leaves me vulnerable--if they stop paying I'd still have to make the payment--he has't helped yet, does he really think I'm stupid enough to beleive he would start then????? If he's sitting in jail because of the child porn how would he help make a payment?????

I just can't believe this is happening! I'm soooooo frustrated--and I can't get back into court in front of a judge until Feb. 6!

Anyway I have ameeting withthe attorney this Thurs. eve. Sorry to vent!

PS It may not sound like it but it is so worth going through this to get away from him. I didn't realize how destructive the relationship was and didn't have any idea he had a secret life going but oh, the freedom in knowing!

So when does he go to jail...sounds to me like he is getting to make too many decisions.
Are they still investigating him? Have they charged him yet? How much longer can he continue to put the court date off?
If, he goes to jail does he still have the right to dedicate what will happen to the house. It's not like he deserves any of the profits.
Why in the world would you give someone the key to your house, especially someone who couldn't be honost about who and what he was.
Oh, I hope you have a lawyer who hangs him out to dry.
After being lied to for 24 years, he deserves nothing but jail time.
Can't imagine a jury being sympathic at all.
I'm not.
Hope all works out for you.

Do you have ANY say in this? Why is he making all of the rules? It sounds like he's just trying to make you as miserable as he can and that is just old fashioned guilt playing it's hand. He know what he's facing is out of his control so he's trying to control the only person or thing he can--you and the house.

I meet with attorney again on Thursday. I am going to refuse to give in on house. I am refusing to give him a key. If he feels that it needs to be open to others types of sales then he will have to refinance house and get me off the mortgage--I won't be left holding the bag when he goes off to jail.

Yes he has been arrested, released on own recognances. I thought once he realized the crimes stuff was real he would be so focused on that that we could settle the divorce thing quickly and easily. Evidently he feels he can fight two battlefronts at the same time.

I'm so tired...My mother died last year a month after I found all this out. She had lung cancer and it was a long painful battle. I haven't really even able to mourn her passing yet, because I am constantly being bombarded by this.

My pastor told my Sunday that he had gotten a letter from him, asking pastor to sit me down and talk to me about how much in sin I am for divorcing him. Pastor told me, not to worry, he recognized a 'master manipulator' was at work.

I hate living in limbo. I'd like to put up a Christmas tree and try to have a good Christmas, but I keep thinking, what if I have to move quickly, if all this goes sour. The mortgage company is screaming foreclosure. By the time I get home at night I am so worn out from spending the day in battle. And as a Christian I am taking my battle to prayer--I can't imagine trying to go through this without knowing Jesus.

I believe foreclosure can take up to three months so you don't have to skip decorating unless it's been that long.

Isn't it strange he sees sin in divorcing him but not in what he did? How convenient it must be.

Starting Over:

I agree w/ your pastor that your husband is a "master manipulator". Totally!

Regarding the home, since the delta alpha is being so very pedantic -- can you contact the mortgage company, explain and discuss any other alternatives? Most lenders don't start foreclosure proceedings until you've missed 4 or 5 payments, depending upon the state and lender.

I found the following literature which may be helpful:


Before taking back your house, most lenders would rather rewrite the loan, suspend principal payments for a while (have you pay interest only), reduce your payments, or even let you miss a few payments and spread them out over time.

If your loan is owned by one of the giant U.S. government mortgage holders, Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, foreclosure could come even more slowly. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been working with homeowners to avoid foreclosure when a loan is delinquent.

If your loan is insured by a federal agency, such as the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) or the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), the lender may be required to try to assist you in preventing foreclosure.

You're better off selling the house than having it go to foreclosure. As a general rule, if you can find a buyer who will offer to pay at least what you owe your lender, take the offer. If the offer is for less than the amount you owe your lender, your lender can block the sale. But many lenders will agree to a "short sale," where the sale brings in less than you owe the lender and the lender agrees to forego the rest. Some lenders require documentation of any financial or medical hardship you are experiencing before agreeing to a short sale.

Dear Starting Over,

I sooo feel for you! What is it about some men that makes them so emotionally numb and at the same time vindictive toward their wives, the only person who loved and supported them unconditionally for so long? Maybe it's that they feel totally out of control and are trying to assert themselves by harrassing the only person they know they can get away doing it to, since they're already in the groove and have been doing it all throughout the marriage! your husband should be hung by the shorthairs!

In the meantime, are you living in the house? What about taking in a boarder to help with the rent? Or, this suggestion from a friend of mine who has already been through this: could you move out of the house and rent it for a little more than your mortgage is until it sells? Is there anyone you could move in with temporarily? (I've been thinking about this option for myself...)

Please try not to let this ruin Christmas for you forever. I know how hard it is, but close your eyes and try to imagine yourself several years down the road. This horrorfest will eventually be nothing more than a bad memory and you will be involved with creating a new and happier life for yourself. You already know that you are happier without him, and that's a good thing to be sure about. So many women don't come to that conclusion until much later down the road.

I am slowly learning from my own situation that a large portion of this is male posturing, and your husband and mine can always find a unethical attorney who is willing to draw up any kind of threatening letter that he wants you to receive. It does not mean that he is actually going to get what he wants...he is just trying to wear you down so that you will abandon the fight and give in to his demands. Mine has done exactly the same thing, and recently threatened to sue for division of property according to another state's laws that would favor him (or so he thinks). His attorney warned me that if they succeed in doing so, they will remove all previous offers off the table (which believe me, were insulting at best after 20 years of marriage)and threatened to leave me with nothing. I've done a ton a research on the web, and my lawyer has consulted with everyone she knows about this, and we are both pretty sure that this cannot happen, because if it actually did - it would overturn every divorce case in this state for the last 20 or 30 years and set a new precedent. I think that this is just another intimidation technique so I called his bluff. I am not a poker player but it is never too late to learn. And if by chance they manage to overturn the law, I will deal with it when and if it happens. I've got enough real trouble to worry about without that now, like how to pay for heat and food, and deal with angry teenaged boys who don't know how to deal with their feelings towards a father who refuses to support them, is flaunting lovers in front of them, and has lost all semblance of humanity.

P.S. I'm sorry about your mother. Unfotunately we have somthing else in common. My dad was just diagnosed with metastatic lung cancer.

Foundhervoice-atlast.

foundhervoice and startingover, maybe you two need to begin private messaging one another for support. Just listening to one another's stories may ease the pain.

startingover, I am so glad your pastor is wise. Keep going to him for support. I love foundhervoice's suggestion of focusing on the future. Just think of placing all the energy you are using on this divorce on another positive topic like how you want to live the rest of your life when all this is behind you. What a great idea.

You are both in my thoughts and prayers. I wish I had better words, or knew how to hlep...

"These" men do horrible things because they are still emotionally attached to you. And, when I pointed that out to my ex, it made him so angry, he left me alone to prove the point that I had already made. He didn't want for me to think he still cared. And, I did it in such a nice way..."I'm sorry you're still so emotionally attached to me that you feel you must keep yourself tied to me with legalities that only cost you more money. Just a thought.

I am not try to be glib here but thought a small amount of levity might be nice:

A GOOD LAWYER KNOWS THE LAW,
AN EXCELLENT LAWYER KNOWS THE JUDGE...

Thanks all. Yes I am in the house. I have tried (since last Nov.) to be open and honest with mortgage co. I have asked for extensions, restructuring of loan, etc. They refuse to work with me. NEVER use Option One for a mortgage! They are horrid people.

The mortage is higher than rents in the area, so renting house out wouldn't pay the full mortgage amount.

I wanted to take in a renter but he refused to allow that. I am not kidding when I say that every avenue has been cut off for me. I can't wait to get with attorney today to see what he says....pray for me please.

PS Found out last night he goes for a hearing today in which the evidence against him will be read into record. I hope it shakes him to his core and real godly change begins in him.

No matter how angry I am I have to remember that this isn't who I married, sin in his life has taken over and unless God gets a hold of him and true change comes, eternity won't be a pleasant place. I have to keep reminding myself that with God there is always a bigger picture and like the Shunnamite woman JUST HANG ON!

Starting Over...you have our prayers. Keep us posted on the outcome. I don't see how anyone could keep you from having a renter. How would they know? And are you saying the mortgage company said you couldn't? or hubby? If it's Hubby looks like he wouldn't have a say in it. Especially if you were given cash...

Good luck girl!

JJ

Starting over...I've been thinking about your situation and I think I would email Suze Orman. She is a popular financial advisor who has a website and a TV show where she invites people to ask questions. It seems like the one about your house might be a good one to ask her about. She would know if there was any legal strongarming you could do to force the mortgage company to work with you on this. The website is: www.suzeorman.com

I am praying for you. Be strong, girl.

Best,
foundhervoice-atlast