You ladies are great!

Posted by: Cubby

You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 10:48 AM

I am new but have been reading your thoughts on the Divorce forum for awhile and am amazed at the wisdom I see here. Maybe it comes with years of living as babyboomer women and all of our experiences. This is a wonderful forum and I am so glad I stumbled upon it! Sometimes synchronicity does work! I have been watching, reading, hearing about the Secret's Law of Attraction lately, so maybe it really is working! Surely hope so and I hope you will not mind giving me your thoughts and opinions once you hear where I am at.
I have been going to a therapist for a year now during my year and a half separation and she is wonderful! But I know I cannot continue seeing her forever and have to make decisions soon enough about what to do next. I really really need some wisdom from the Wise Ones!
So will be back soon and thank you for being here!
Posted by: jawjaw

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 01:01 PM

We're so glad you've joined us and thank you for the kind words about the forum. There are a lot of wise and caring women here and this is a wonderful place to find healing and peace. Please join us whenever you are ready and we are truly glad you've found us!
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 02:05 PM

Hello again,
Thank you Queen JJ for your kind words. It was just the welcoming message I needed! I am what you would call a private person and don't share a whole lot with many. (Maybe that's why I am still with my confidential therapist for over a year!) I think it comes from the fear of being judged.
My mother, who is a strong and independent 87 yr old, is still quite judging but I wonder how many mothers are not, even to their 53 year old daughters! LOL! I did learn to "watch my step" growing up or at least watch out that somebody didn't find out about it! I wonder how many of us were able to share and be open with our mothers and how many, like me, did things in secret so as not to make them mad.
I think what we learned in childhood had a big effect on our adult lives, whether we want to admit it or not! For example, my mother stayed with my Dad even though she definitely had reasons to divorce him including jail time. Now when she speaks of their long union she says she just couldn't do it and stayed together for the sake of the family. And since my siblings and I loved our Dad very much, I guess we're happy they did. What their lives could have been like separately, who knows. I know they came to depend on each other through the years.

Anyway, saying all that, here I am 53 years old young, with 20 years in public education helping kids, married for 35 years but separated for 1 1/2 years and emotionally disconnected for many more and I am having an extremely difficult time with pulling the plug, namely anything legal.
We lived like roommates for more years that I want to admit, me not wanting sex, him not wanting consistent emotional closeness, for years. But we stuck together and accomplished things along the way that we might not have been able to do apart, such as gaining guardianship and raising our only granddaughter as a baby when she was in a neglectful situation living with her too-young parents, me pursuing a college education from scratch and obtaining a Masters degree, buying and selling houses, and enjoying home interests.
But what was missing was the kind of close, loving relationship that married people should have. He was a workaholic whether it was at his job or on our last house which remains incomplete even afte 8 years because of his fussiness about doing the job right himself, not wanting to go places I was interested in such as movies, auctions, out to dinner, events. He would go where he wanted such as cross country skiing every day in winter and I sometimes went, but he was such a fitness buff that we didn't ski together as I plodded along the trail myself. I was very uninterested in sex and checked out medically ok. He would get angry and not talk to me for weeks on end, something he copied from his parent's long marriage. Which then made me more emotionally disconnected from him after begging him to talk and him refusing until he was ready weeks later.
After my father and his mother died within months of each other, I took stock of how unhappy we were in the marriage, and vowed to change it or leave. I didn't want to end up on my deathbed still unhappy and regretting the lost years. I asked him to go with me to counseling, he refused, wouldn't talk. I began doing more and more on my own as I had always been independent. I started seeing more and more of a good male friend who was the exact opposite of my husband and actually wanted to experience things with me. All this time, I still wanted my husband to listen, to know that we couldn't go on living like this. He ignored me. Finally I told him I was moving out and meant it. I bought my own house. He was shocked and hurt. Begged me not to do it. I knew I had to anyway until I saw some changes. And here it is - a year and a half later with us living separate lives, but little has changed. He wants to get back together but expects me just to come back and be with him. He went to counseling on his own 4 times and then quit when things did not magically work out. He continues to work hard, not date, put time and effort in our property, ski, exercise, send me flowers on special occasions, go out to lunch with me once in awhile, so most things remain the same with him being a bit more attentive. Now we just live apart and I have bigger bills. I haven't asked for anything in the house or from him and he pays the bills on that and I pay the bills on mine.

I have come up with two legal separations, the last one with his input, but he won't sign them. Doesn't want anything legal. He wants us to work out. I would love us to work out too. I am sure I still love him on some level and 35 years is a long time. And he has been my best love/hate friend for all that time. But I know I can't go back to the way we were living. It felt like a slow death. But now I feel so in limbo. And something is holding me back from making the moves.
Sorry this is such a long post! Thank you so much for listening. I welcome any and all you have to say.
Love, Cubby
Posted by: yonuh

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 02:37 PM

Welcome, Cubby. I can so relate to what you are saying about your hubby. My ex was much the same in that he was controlling by being distant or by ignoring me, which was behavior I finally decided wasn't going to continue. We divorced after 25 years. It was hard but the best thing I ever did. We divorced in '93. Two years later, I met a wonderful man, and we have been together ever since. We are not compatible in everything, but he does what he likes, I do what I like, and we have things we do together.

You are the only one to decide what is best for you, and you have to decide what is best for you. I think that as boomer women, we have been raised to put everyone else first, and that isn't good for anyone. If we don't take care of ourselves first, how can we have the strength and energy to take care of anyone else??

So whatever you decide, we sisters are here for you.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 02:50 PM

Cubby, seems like you and your husband are good friends, which is hard to find; yet, not lovers? Wonder if you could propose 'dating' and see if you can rekindle the marriage? If not, then in time you will do the right thing.
Posted by: Edelweiss

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 06:00 PM

Cubby, you found the right place to vent, get some good advice, and just find sympathetic listeners.

After reading your post, my first thought was; why would she want to go back? You have your own home and you have established yourself. That’s great. Do you want to go back because you’re lonely? Is it because you feel sorry for your husband? Is it because you believe he has really changed and will stay that way?

A good friend of mine left her husband. After two years of his wooing and begging, she returned to him. It took him only three months to fall into his old habits. Her days were filled with regrets and beating on herself. She finally got up the mum to leave her husband again, when he got a stroke. He was helpless without her, and she ended up having to nurse him till he died. But during that time she hated her life, and became depressive. Now that she is a widow, she says she is too old
and emotionally drained to start up a relationship with anyone else. She says she missed her boat.

Now I’m not saying this has to be your life. What I’m saying is, if you go back…make sure you are positive it is what you really want, and not what your hubby wants.

What is rushing you? I think MustangGal’s suggestion is a good one. Just date, but keep separate addresses. It gives you time to decide, and who cares if it takes a year or 10 years. You control your life. Don’t let anyone control it for you.

Posted by: humlan

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 07:53 PM

Cubby..I can´t add too much to what has been said here..really good thoughts and advice!

I just wanted to tell you that I,too, seperated from my husband of 32yrs at the merry age of you. I won´t deny that it was very difficult for quite a few years afterward..lots of soul searching..going back to the own childhood which had lots of problems (my mom staid with my alcoholic father,too (tho he stopped drinking when I was 18)..and they had a very tight relationship until my father died some 3 yrs back)..and I guess, I just stirred up my whole life and tried to put it back together again..which I have done..well, more or less. Depends on the day you ask me and how I feel, I guess But today..8 yrs later.. I am living with a new partner, who is much younger than myself..and my 18yr old son (1 of my 5 kids) lives me in our 1 bedroom apartment . But hej.. I am breathing more freely..and living a life I believe in..most of the time .

Yes, we are divorced..legally ..more than year later after the seperation. I,too, had hoped we could talk and perhaps get closer if I made a move and showed my hubby that I was serious..but it didn´t change anything, unfortunately.

Anyway..I guess that you have to feel that you have left no leaf unturned..and really tried to put it together know, like Humpty Dumpty..and then comes the point where you just can´t do anymore or wait anymore..because your own life is flowing thru your hands..or that point never comes..and you can make it work again!

Anyway..I hear you as do the women here at this site!
Posted by: humlan

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 08:36 PM

P.S. Cubby..I have just recently gotten into the "Law of Attraction" myself..and am amazed how I keep stumbling on it everywhere..very very interesting..hmm..maybe it does really you say. Just today I found that finally my favorite bookstore on the net has all the far as I know, just a few weeks ago,they didn´t carry them yet! I live in I have to order my books in English over the net. Amazon is no good for me..the shipping costs are murder

In the thread on Contentment or the one about Boxes..Eagleheart mentions links to more Info on the Law of Allowing and Vibrations..have a look if you want..those links are interesting,too..and they offer coaching, if you are interested.

Back to my detective series on tv, then..Frost! My Saturday evening enjoyment most of the time..that and sushi!!!
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/03/08 08:48 PM

Well I knew I came to the right place. You are all so smart, but not just smart, you have wisdom. And you are so supportive, I cannot thank you enough for it. I appreciate everything you write and cannot tell you how much it helps me to sort things out.

Earlier I read on a different thread (but here) about a woman who was going through a divorce, having good days and bad days, and grieving the loss of unfulfilled dreams or the expected life that now she would never have with her husband and family. I think I may be feeling some of this too. I expected we would grow old together and be happy in the house we both worked so hard on and lived in for many years. I expected us to eventually retire and travel and enjoy life. I expected us to be there for each other. I expected the love we once shared to never go away........

And what is very difficult for me is that since I am a person who absolutely hates confrontation is that I am the one who initiated it. He would have been content to live live that way forever. I couldn't any more.

I wonder if I am the eternal optimist, a Pollyanna so to speak, thinking it will get better, it has to. But I know it doesn't have to. And stories don't always end like fairy tales. But I wish this one would.......

Then again, as beautiful Edelweiss so astutely pointed out, I have my own house, I pay my own bills, no one controls me! And I felt controlled living with my husband even though we each were very independent. I was controlled when I felt guilty for not wanting sex, when he refused to talk to me for weeks on end, when he would be in a bad temper and yell about my stuff lying around, when he refused to eat the food I cooked because he wasn't hungry, and on and on. I lived on his terms then, he would say he lived on my terms, but now we live on our own terms.

My therapist tells me we tend to forget the bad and focus on only the good. She is right. I can focus on the bad if I think about it. But when I see him and my old house, I am thrown off for days, sad. When I am on my own I am much better and live my life. I am not lonely, but love my time alone, have my work and my granddaughter (who is a 14 yr old with all of the trappings!) have a small Ebay business, go to auctions, movies, out to eat, places with a couple of good friends. At times I miss my old life, my house especially, it was beautiful and mine now is small. Life is good, busy, but I know I am in limbo and think I would be better off if I weren't!
I love your advice, I love your stories, you are such strong, good women. Thank-you all. Hope to hear from you again.
Posted by: chatty lady

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/04/08 08:57 PM

Cubby first let me welcome you to our family and I hope my answer to your PM was satisfactory.
Dating your ex might work and is a different approach but in my experience, its best to "sh// or get off the pot," as the saying goes. If in 35 years the marriage didn't work and sounds somewhat miserable for you to me, then why wait, why waste more of your life on this man? Get it done, conquer your fear, thats the feeling you are having deep in your guts, fear of losing whatever it was you had, or actually losing what you wanted to have. You have done so much making a life for yourself now on your own, don'took back, theres nothing there but the same old, same old. Why isn't your husband the one doing the chasing, on his knees trying to win you back?????? Look ahead and maybe you'll one day find someone who will SPOIL you, and you know what I mean by that!!!
Posted by: Dotsie

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/05/08 05:32 PM

Coming in to this late and also as a woman who has been married to the love of my life for 28 years. No divorce expereince here, except what I've learned from friends.

It sounds to me like you are greiving what you thought your life was going to be. I think that's a very hard part, but one that can be conquered with counseling because you can begin to paint the latest picture of what your life WILL be. While it will look different, you are the only one with a say in it and I think that's empowering.

It's the perfect time for you to re-invent your life. Change is hard, but once the changes are made, you begin living anew, and then ou'll look back and thank God for your new life which can be one without the tension of living wih someone who blocks you out. That's hurtful and way too tough on your body and soul. Everyone deserves regcognition within their own home.
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/06/08 12:40 AM

Thank-you all for your thoughtful and inspiring words. They mean alot to me.
When I think about it, I know I am happier living on my own.
There were times when living with my husband, that I would retreat to my room and just lay on my bed depressed. He did the same thing himself. But for whatever reason, he has not moved on and I haven't either.
I miss my house and property which was much more to my liking than the small little shoebox I live in now with not enough electrical plugs and drafty walls in the winter and a high mortgage, where I had no mortgage, and had spaciousness, quality craftmanship, and land in my other property. But I gave it up and made that choice for freedom and did not ask for anything but. So why can't I just be happy with my choice and move forward...........!
Posted by: Edelweiss

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/06/08 06:31 AM

Cubby, me thinks you miss your house and not your Hubby….

I know with the real-estate crisis in America and all, this may not be good advice; but I’ll say it anyway. Is it possible you made a poor choice in buying your present home? Well, you aren’t married to it. Then put it up for sale, and see if you find something more to your liking. Maybe a house isn’t the answer. Maybe a “newer” apartment with a large balcony is. If you don’t sell the house for the price you want, then so be it. But who knows, everyone gets lucks once in a while.
Posted by: Dotsie

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/06/08 05:39 PM

Edelweiss, excellent observation and great idea.

cubby, how about figuring out exactly what it is you miss in your home, then trying to find it elsewhere?
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/06/08 10:24 PM

Thankyou Edelweiss for those thoughts. And Dottie, that is a great idea. Try to find what I miss in my home, elsewhere.
This is timely because I just came from there since I like to walk after work and that is my favorite place to walk. The house is on about 4 acres of land which consists of small hills, open field, and woods. Since it is private property no one bothers me there. My husband works late so is not at home when I get out of work. I have tried to walk on the roads which many people do around here but I dislike the many cars and people seeing me (I am quite private). I have tried walking at local parks but have not found one I care for, plus there are usually people there. So what I miss about my other house is the quietness and solitude of the place - in the country with no neigbors. I went inside the house while I was there and loved the spaciousness and open floor plan and cathedral ceilings, even if the remodeling remains unfinished. So that is another thing I miss - a nice spacious big house. But the problem is a real one. I can't afford a house like that on my own with a single income. I can afford a small ranch which I live in. Maybe it was a mistake buying this house but I knew I could resell it fairly quickly if need be as it is in a desirable suburban neighborhood, so I won't lose money. But even if I sell it, I won't be able to buy what I want. I guess that's one of the realities that come with divorce. One income.

And while I was in the house, I saw something that saddened me and probably shouldn't since it has been a year and a half we have not been together - a notation on his calendar for "dinner with Cheryl on her birthday" for Thursday......
I shouldn't feel sad because I myself have had dinner with Paul and dinner with Drew! But I guess I know that when my husband, who never cheated and was very loyal, makes a date like that, it means something. What do I expect - I left him, abandoned in legal terms....... No matter, it still doesn't feel very good....
Posted by: chatty lady

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/06/08 10:44 PM

Cubby in the PM's we have had going back and forth I have gotten the feeling that besides being somewhat lazy in remodeling the house, and being an emotional cripple your husband doesn't sound so bad. You had better give this much thought and remember I said the grass is 'not' generally greener on the other side, we just imagine it to be. If you are thinking of trying again and theres no shame in that, do it before some Cheryl or someone else gets their claws into him...
Posted by: Edelweiss

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/07/08 07:26 AM

Cubby, is it jealousy you feel? I remember breaking up with a guy I dated. When I found out that he was dating someone else right after the breakup, I was devestated. And then I thought this is my pride, not a broken heart. I think it's easy to confuse the two. Just a thought.

Oh, and yes your house with the beautiful grounds sounds gorgious. But even a Princess like Lady Di was unhappy in a castle. It's the home you carry in your heart that counts. That is what makes a house to a home, don't you think?
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/07/08 09:26 AM

I love your thought "Even Princess Di was unhappy in a castle" So true. Thankyou.
Posted by: Dotsie

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/07/08 01:32 PM

Cubby, do you miss your home or your hubby, or the notion of being married to the same guy and living happily ever after? Can you put your finger on it? I'm sure it's not that simple yet, but are you yearning for your husband?
Posted by: chatty lady

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/07/08 08:15 PM

Poor Princess Di didn't have a chance at happiness with Prince (NOT very Princely) Charles, because he had his whore Carmella always in the background and poor Diana knew it. What women could take that crap for very long? I feel so sorry for her and you know the Monarchy had her whipped out as she was in the way and they couldn't have her marrying some Arab, Fahed and bringing him into their royal households....What a mess!
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/09/08 09:10 PM

Probably the shattered dream is what bothers me the most. And my home with its spaciousness and the property!
Posted by: HappyWednesday

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/09/08 11:59 PM

Hello Chubby!

Posted by: Lola

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/10/08 10:14 AM


Probably the shattered dream is what bothers me the most. And my home with its spaciousness and the property!

I've come to this thread rather late and welcome you to BWS, Cubby.

On shattered dreams. Would you consider your marriage as to have irretrievably broken down, Cubby? From your previous posts, it seems to be that both of you have not commenced a formal and legal dissolution of your marriage despite the legal recourse which would allow it, whether the other spouse agrees to it or not. Moreover, you mentioned your husband's reluctance towards it and (you must correct me if I’m wrong), it seems to be that you still bear some affection for him. If the latter is true, could that be the reason why you could not move forward despite having moved out of the family home? And, if such is the case, could the present reality perhaps only mean that you are still emotionally married to your husband despite the physical state of your marriage?

Back on the topic of shattered dreams. It is very rare when any of us are satisfied with who we are, where we are in life, who we share it with, and etc. That dissatisfaction with a “dream” is magnified when taken in the context of family life. Especially so, when we think or feel that marriage has become a failure because it had reached the point when a spouse has become a disappointment with the match we’ve made and three becomes a crowd: our spouse, ourselves and our dream of the perfect partner and “happily ever afters”. IF you are still in love with your husband and he is with you, could you forgive him for not living up to the ideal? Your therapist is right to emphasise in focusing on the good. In doing so, it makes it easier to accept the real person whom you have married, imperfect as he may be. Sometimes, a re-making of our attitude than a re-making of our world makes a difference.

Strange. “A House is not a Home” by Burt Bacharach is what came to mind when you wrote about your house and your visit to what was once the family home. I must be such a sentimental fool.
Posted by: chatty lady

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/11/08 08:12 PM

Wow, LOLA what an insiteful and beautiful post...The wisdom of your words is unbelievable, especially the part about 'threes a crowd' in a marriage. I loved both my husbands so much and yet neither was perfect, as I am not perfect... Food for thought...
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/14/08 08:56 AM

Hi Happy Wednesday! And I think Chubby is a better name for me than Cubby! LOL! Although I have to say since the nice weather has arrived in the Northeast, I have been attempting to walk outside more days than not.

Thank you for your insight Lola. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. You are right, I am still emotionally married to my husband despite our separateness. I feel I am in a state of limbo and am feeling more and more the need to move out of this state that I have held for a year and a half. I do feel affection for him but it is obviously not the kind of intimate love that one needs to maintain a marriage. One of our biggest ongoing conflicts was about sex, him wanting, me not. I know now through therapy that that was tied to me not feeling emotionally close to him because of many behaviors such as not talking to me for weeks when he was angry, having us sleep on a mattress on the floor for years because the bedrooms were not finished and he refusing to hire anyone but himself to complete the house, not wanting to go on vacations, events, etc. but rather finding enjoyment in his home projects. But of course there was the flip side of him that I loveed like his kindness to animals and extreme sensitivity at times. He is an artist at heart (and went to art school) and has a need for perfection in what he does. I always told him if he worked on our relationship like he worked on his projects, we would have a great marriage.
I just don't think I would be happy back in that place where it took all of my willpower to leave, if nothing much has changed a year and a half later.
It's just so hard to make the move and I guess give it all up once and for all, after all those years.
Posted by: Dotsie

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/16/08 08:32 AM

I understand the fear of giving up the dream. I know someone in a similar situation. As much as I want her to kick the old life to the curb, along with the dream of happyily ever after, I understand because she can't quite figure out her new life and how it's going to look.

I say, baby steps. Do one thing a day to move you in a direction of a glorious future. Write it down. Keep a list going of what you do each day to create your new life. I beleive in momentum. Once you are deliberately making changes, it may snowball. You have a great start. You're already out of the dream house. Keep up the goos work.
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/21/08 09:31 AM

Hi all,
Again thank you for your comments. I love to hear all of them.
As I have written, I have been back and forth about moving ahead with my separate life but feeling ambivalence about it. My husband has not been willing to do anythng legal but seems not to be doing anything different to make things better either and it has been a year and a half of living apart. I find that the more contact I have with him and my other house (which he still lives in, unfinished) the worse it is for me - bad moods, unhappiness, etc. I have to trust my feelings and know they are there for a reason, mainly 30+ years of alot of ups and downs. When I am not in contact with him and am on my own, I seem to be happier. I read a quote recently that spoke to me. Can't remember it exactly but it was something like "Why not laugh now and forget rather than remember and feel sad" I think right now is all we have and there really is no room for regrets if we want to live our lives to the fullest.
So as you say Dotsie, baby steps. I am taking them every day, sometimes I teeter backwards, but keep trying to move forward. Thankyou!
Posted by: jawjaw

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/21/08 12:27 PM

Not only write down your steps for the day, but at the end of the day, cross off the ones you accomplish. You have no idea how good that will make you feel about "things."

I wish you so much happiness, Cubby, no matter what action you take!
Posted by: Dotsie

Re: You ladies are great! - 05/23/08 12:13 PM

Cubby, the National Association of Baby Boomer Women, is doing a teleseminar this week about how relationships can stifle us. Here's a link about it:
Posted by: Cubby

Re: You ladies are great! - 06/01/08 12:24 PM

Hi Dotsie,
I went to the link but don't see it. Maybe I missed it? Can it be replayed? It sounds like something I need!
Posted by: jawjaw

Re: You ladies are great! - 06/01/08 01:21 PM

Cubby, the link was for "info" about the teleseminar. All teleseminars are free to members of the association. You might want to check out the organization and see if it is a fit for you. There are lots of people here in this community who are members.
Posted by: Dotsie

Re: You ladies are great! - 06/02/08 10:26 AM

and just in case you need the link: