Faith gone?

Before I post this, please, please, please don't preach to me, okay?

I used to faithfully go to church...morning, night, wednesday night and sometimes in between. I used to sing on Trinity Broadcasting Network. I was in charge of special music for my church. I was a good Christian woman. And then...

My husband started chasing other women, etc. and my children and I went through so much and it was really scary for us. I finally had to divorce him as he was flaunting some woman around our home town. My church would no longer let me sing because of his actions. Whatever. Said I lost my "umbrella of protection" that my husband afforded me.

Then, I move and start going to a class at a huge church (so I could get lost in the crowd) and it was for divorced people. Loved it but our great leader, one of the assoc. pastor's of this church, was caught buying drugs on the street. This was after he condemned us up and down for months on end saying we had sin in our camp. Guess we found out where the sin was! I also got tired of men trying to pick me up at our meetings. It's church!!!!!

Long story even longer, I got tired of the fakery. Now, I know we aren't supposed to look at man but come on, what makes up a church but the people?

I still have faith in God but I can't force myself to go to certain churches. Most churches. My sister is now the same way. Those who preached at us turned out to be liars.

Dianne,
I don't go to church every Sunday . If you don't go to Church that is Ok! I say you can show kindness and help people and show your faith that way. I have had friends say were very religous and they were not there when I needed them. Etc. You have to do what is best for you.

What is they say it is not good to judge or be judged . Something like that .

Didn't the biblesay "we are the church" A "church is simply a building where we all gather. Correct me if I'm wrong. But we can minister and do Gods will regardless of whether we attend church every sunday It's whats in our hearts that count.

Keep the faith and remember you are God's child and He loves you

Dianne, I know what you mean about the church singles programs. Deliver me from that. I really think they're just a place to put us single women and men so we don't 'bother' the married folks. I have been only a few times and Hated it. Glorified pick up bar. Never again.

However, I like to go to church on Sunday morning, but it is for myself, not really for God. I believe I can worship Him just by experiencing the joy of wherever I am, especially if I am in nature.
However, I also believe that my spirit, like my body, needs exercise and like with my body exercising my spirit is easier if I am with others who are moving with me.
I feel my spirit being moved in the singing and my intellect in the sermon so it's a good thing for me. Of course I have not been going since getting in this cast, but I will again as soon as I get the cast off though it won't be because it is necessary to get into heaven or even to please God who is probably happier when I find him in life wherever I am living it.
smile

Dianne, I have to admit your post pains me. I worked in a church as the Director of Member Care for a few years. One of my responsibilites was church membership/recruitment if you want to call it that. I was responsible for the visitors and new members.

I've heard many stories similar to yours. The church has turned so many people away, especially our generation growing up and getting married in the 60's and 70's.

I know friends who couldn't get married in the Catholic Church because they admitted to premarital sex, while others chose to lie to the priest so they could still get married in the church. How ridiculous is that?

I believe Jesus hates the sin, but embraces the sinner.

The fact that your church would no longer let you sing because of his actions makes my blood boil.

All sins are sins before God. Those very people who asked you to leave are sinners too. We all are. How can you be set apart?

I believe God never intended that religion be what it is today. He sent Jesus to free us from the regiment of following rules and regulations. He wanted His disciples to guide and serve, not dictate and legislate. When we do this we become just like the Pharisees.

I find it hard to believe that Jesus ever wanted religion to damage people. Religion comes from the heart and a deep relationship with God. It should bring peace, joy, love, and kindness to people, not fear, guilt, or separation.

God's prime concern is people, not religious laws and division.

My belief is that church is a hospital for sinners, NOT a museum for saints. Churches that come across as museums are shooting themsleves in the foot.

The churches that are growing embrace all of God's people (especially those with flaws) and have classes and retreats to help all become more like Christ. Imagine that! Remember who Christ picked as His disciples?

I believe we need to be in a church family. We need to be surrounded by a community of believers even if it's only in the pew on Sunday mornings. I'm not saying jump in with both feet, but do jump in and be strengtheened by the services and let the Holy Spirit take over from there.

If you take a log and remove it from the fire, it will smolder and burn out. The same can be true of Christians when removed from the church. We need one another!

If you don't like the idea of church, look for a prayer group or Bible study. Just find a way to commune with other Christians. It's good for us.

One of my favorite groups isn't associated with my church. It's a non-denominational gathering that meets on Tuesdays for lunch and faith discussions. The beauty of it is we don't dicuss what's going on in our churches. We talk about our faith only. It was a welcome relief to have church politics left at the door.

Sorry for rambling!

PS. I'm not preaching to you Dianne...only getting some things off my chest.

Your title...faith gone is far from the truth. The fact that you are posting about it means you have faith! Unfortunately, you have been mislead by the very people who are called to lead you. Isn't that sad?

I love you and would never pass judgment on you.

Beautifully said Dotsie.
smile

I see a lot of control issues in some churches. I see a lot of "let's get this guy converted so we'll have a big feather in our cap" rather than really be concerned for a person's soul. Being married to a Jew (non-practicing) I've seen a lot of this. Oh, it's easy to detect because I used to do it myself. Have a dinner and the conversation begins to be directed toward Christianity, etc. Very much a turn off. Do people realize how uncomfortable that can make someone? My husband studied other religions in his class as a child so they would be more understanding and tolerant of others's beliefs. Most churches I've attended even have guest speakers who talk about other religions and what's wrong with them.

I'm not against God. I'm against what people have turned Him into. Something to be used for their own control devices.

Dotise ,

I agree with you. How lovely . Beautiful words Dotise.

This month's Christianity Today has an excellent article by Tim Stafford on this issue "The Church why bother?" I recommend reading it.

Church Christians and Practicing Christians...even Christ took his whip to the "former" while at the same time denouncing them.

Dianne - you don't have to look far to find a fallen Christian. I usually just look in the mirror.

Like Mom always tells me, "Sandra, if you're seeing the sin in other folks, you've taken your eyes off Him."

Good words to live by.

Maybe that's what I'm tired of...looking for the sin in others and myself instead of the good.

Dotsie,
Loved it. Dianne when I read what you wrote this morning I kept thinking but when two or three are gathered together and that can be anywhere.
What I get tired of is other Christians trying to convert people who already believe. I always want to scream go find someone else who doesn't have all this. Would you believe one minister gives a sermon on this after a funeral here. I told my husband next time I'm leaving before he gets to that part.
Don't give up there others who are more open
and forgiving. I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.
Maggie

Hi Dianne: My heart aches for you as I've had a very similar experience; and I, too, have become turned off by "organized religion."

I've found, through this board, and Faithwriters, an online group that I am able to find refreshment in; and of all things, through my writing group.

Our relationship with Christ is above all the most important part of our walk. Ted Dekker is an author very much in the limelight today, and he explores the subject of how the church just doesn't get it.

I get to interview him soon, and I have some questions for him; I stumbled upon "When Heaven Weeps," and I've never in my entire life had a more moving experience in my life. The story is not Christian fiction - many Christians have expressed dislike, even hate, at the story, because it exposes mankind's inability to see itself through the eyes of Christ, and to experience what God is - Love! Passionate, obsessive, the great romance type of love.

After I read "When Heaven Weeps," I underwent an inner cleansing, much needed at the time. I immediately went and purchased the rest of his books, and each one has helped me, exposed me, and driven me to frantically seek the fullness of God's love for me.

And I've been disappointed by the "Church."

For many reasons, I don't attend church regularly: ex-girlfriends of my husband being one of them; my health; and "fitting in." Because pain keeps me housebound at times, especially in winter, I find solace in fellowship with friends and writers, and e-mail has opened up another avenue of communication, which reminds me of Paul's letters to the various churches.

I see myself in a non-traditional church setting, and I long for one in which I feel welcomed and not condemned if I can't be there every Sunday; Sometimes I feel closer to God just watching a sunset, or reading a book, looking at a photograph, feeling the unabashed joy my dogs feel when I come home, and an instant connection with an e-buddy or two.

I've even thought of starting my own "church," but hate to even call it "church." Over the years, the word itself has attached itself to many unpleasant things and given the world an unGodly view of the true meaning of "Christian."

During the past year, I've felt God drawing me closer through some of the most bizarre ways, and he's opening new avenues - maybe he's disillusioned also?

You all know I'm doing the editor thing at Sisters in the Lord, and the whole thing came about in a very weird way. I sent in a submission. No big deal. A couple weeks later, I was invited to choose a position (volunteer), and I qualified for all of them, but thought I'd enjoy photography the most. But it seems God has a plan for me, and I almost missed it.

Through Sisters in the Lord, my "church" family has grown to include many special people who each minister to me, fellowship with me, and learn with me.

I guess I just wanted to say that you are not alone; and there are many who feel as you do. The church who doesn't want you to participate because of your husband's behaviors is way off the mark, though. And it's that kind of church that Jesus wouldn't attend.

The sick need healing and comfort, not a puffed-up diatribe about "acceptable behavior." I'd be shaking the dust from my feet from that place, in a flash. Don't they realize it's exactly these types of situations where God is needed the most? And not to condemn, but to lift up and cherish and breathe new life.

So sorry you've had this experience. I'll speak to God about it in prayer.

Di

Dianne, there are people who claim to be all sorts of "religious" who live with hypocrisy and hatred in their hearts. Unfortunately, you find them everywhere. They think that just because they've labeled themselves (whatever) religion, that makes them a religious person.

Spirituality comes from a place deep inside, and everywhere around us. Some people access it better by belonging to a certain religion or fellowship or congregation, and other people may find that these external things are not as important as the internal motivation. Some people do both.

What is important is that you understand your spiritual values, whatever they may be. Look for love and light wherever you go. If some people are petty and hypocritical, don't define yourself against them; just keep walking. You can only lose that game if you play it.

If you feel you need a church, then keep looking until you find one. Don't let the bad ones get you down. If you don't need a church, then don't be guilty. Sit down with yourself, and figure exactly what you DO need, and then go about finding it. Also understand that what you need at one time in your life, may not be what you need in another.

You have wasted too much energy reacting to negative people. YES, you should be angry, but it's time to move on your own path.

You are a good person. Your light shines through in the work you do and the way you care for others. When you dwell on negativity, then you let the shadow obliterate the light.

Thanks Meredith. Because I live in The Bible Buckle, I get asked a lot what church I attend. We have a church on every corner.

I have started defining myself more spiritual. My ancestor's were Native American and their God was nature and all the beauty that surrounded them. They were told that they were wrong.

I'm not sure why this bothers me. Maybe because some people feel it necessary to preach to me and basically, they're preaching to the choir. I love God and it's the people who are so self-righteous that make me crazy and condemn me for not going to a church on a regular basis. What about my heart? I do good or try to and I reach out to help others and try to help battered women but I'm told I'm going to hell regardless. I don't believe that for one minute.

In my work with battered women, almost all of them have been abused by some church in their past. I can't even bring up God without doing so very carefully. I have to say Higher Power. And, that's okay. Whatever helps them to reach out.

I suppose what brought this to the front of my mind was a long discussion my sister and I had in France. It was basically..."What happened to us?"

Amen to that. ''

I have seen years a ago . My mother's cousi husband . He would sit and pray and have prayers sessons at his home and they turn around and be mean and curl to others. What good was it to read the bible and then not practice what you preached. He died a horrible death and he suffer so . I remember the morfin they gave him could not kill the pain he had . I told my mother he would die a horrible death and he did . His daughter is my mother's cousin and she is in pain also now. See a pattern to this.? I do!

[ January 31, 2005, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Nancy50 ]

Dian, I'm going to check out the author you mentioned. Thanks for sharing.

Have any of you read Joseph Girzone's books? If not, please go to Amazon and read about them. They are life changing.

Joseph was a priest and left the ministry to write about Jesus...and boy does he know Him well. I was tickled to meet him at a book signing. He shared that his books are now being used in seminaries around the world to educate seminarians about the spirit and heart of Christ.

I started reading them years ago when I was reintroduced to Christianity. His books have educated me more about the heart of Christ than any other books I've read.

I highly recommend the Joshua Series, Never Alone, and A Portrait of Jesus. I've given them as gifts in the past. They are life changing reads!

Please check them out and send me an email if you choose to read them. I'd love to know what you think.

Smile, I think you would love reading his work while you're recovering. The reading is very simple, but extremely profound. The days will whip by.

Meredith and Dotsie made such perfect comments I almost didn't post but decided this needed to be said if only for me. I was brought up Catholic and attended school plus catacisim classes for 12 years. But I had been terribly disalusioned many years earlier at age 11 when in the choir loft while preparing for a solo the priest placed his hands on my breasts while telling me what a beautiful child of God I was. I expected any minute for lightning to come down and smite hit dead, but it never did and from that day forward I had no belief or faith in religion. As you may all remember ashile back I found a new church to attend and began to feel good about religion and the people around me, then I began to feel estranged when I was NOT a couple. All that matters to this bunch is family and marriage. The just dump together the rest of us, the widowers, elderly, divorced etc. in a pile and we are pretty much left to fend for ourselves. You see that clearly after several months. Now I live in the city that never sleeps and am a nightowl. I'm up and out at midnight roaming around, why not I can't sleep and everything here is open 24/7. I stopped going to that church several months ago, I was so discusted but they were adding a new addition and so one night about 12:20 AM I took a ride to go and get a sausage crousant at Jack In The Box and took a ride past the churchs huge parking area. I saw a couple of cars parked near a rear entranced and being the noisy (ex security)person I am, I drove up behind them, lights off and then turned on my brights, doors locked, hand on my cell phone to call 911 and low and behold, two heads popped up.....It was the head Minister and a woman I recognized as the wife of another Minister. I doubt they were praying in the position I caught them in. I immediately turned off my lights and drove away in silence. Shocked and yet somehow not surprised. I am friends with many many people most professing to be Christians and yet showing no mercy or compassion to anyone but themselves. I now worship my God alone at sunrise at the edge of the desert or under the stars on my back porch or wherever I happen to be when the feeling makes me want to talk to God. I do not nor will I ever trust man again. I am my own church and God dwells within me. If a person feels that, why do they need some building or some so called man of God to instill that in them? My Bible is my religions training now and I read it faithfully. Dianne, just believe and stay the good person you are and call yourself a Christian if you need to but I am a child of God and behave as one in all things and thats enough for me. Hopefully it's enough for him as well...

Thanks Chatty. Deeply appreciate it. Really.

Chatty, I rolled my eyes when I read your post. Ugh! Seems like some of the people who make the biggest show about being religious, are the ones who are in the most compromised positions.

Dianne, the next time one of these self-righteous jerks starts preaching about how you're going to hell -- think about Chatty's post -- and then think about what these hypocrites are probably doing that makes them want to pin the guilt on someone else.

I've found that the more zealous people are about their belief system -- and I'm talking about the people who have to cram it down your throat at every opportunity, and tell you you're going to hell if you don't believe exactly and precisely the way they do -- are the ones who are the most insecure about themselves and their beliefs.

People with love in their heart will support your spiritual choices whatever they may be, and try to bring you up when you need their help or compassion. As for the people who are always putting everybody else down, they have too much hatred in their hearts and are not worthy of you.

Choose to surround yourself with good people.

Chatty, I am so sorry you had that experience. It seemed that you were enjoying your faith so much.
I understand how single women are shuffled out of the larger church family. I never was accepted there either. But I took my kids anyway. I guess they knew better than to exclude them. We went three or more times a week and I dated the sunday school teacher and other single guys in the church. I never got accepted by the married women, but I think they finally gave up on driving me either to a 'singles' corner or out.
I always thought I had a family so we particiapted in the family events. And no one dared exclude my kids. They probably knew I would go berserk. But I was never a part of the "We are family" contingent.
As to infidelity in the church, Christianity is such an intimate experience that it can bring men and women together in an intimate way which can easily lead to physical intimacy as well. That's not to defend it, but I believe it is easy to get into. Maybe if you forgive the preacher and move on probably to another church, it will mean God will forgive you for any sins you might have.
If you enjoyed church, there are tons of them, go find another and be your wonderful self. Let it be all about exercising your spirit for yourself, and don't ever let it be for anyone else at all. You're a good person and you deserve it.
smile

Actually I hold no ill will towards the Minister or the other mans wife he was bonking, it isn't my part to forgive either of them, they did nothing to me personally but it was just another time I said: "Un huh, here we go again, same ole, same old. I think I'll just be my own church and believe what I want to the way I want to, it works for me...

Meredith: I have surrounded myself with people who love and support me...right here in this forum!

I'm with Chatty and the others who responded. My feelings for God never changed but they sure did for those who don't practice what they preach and yes, we should we aware of those who are always preaching.

I was raised a Catholic, went to church every single morning before going to school where I studied catechism.
My Parents and seven of us kids never missed church.
I am no longer recognized in the Catholic church because I am divorced.
Some day I will get an annulment and go back to church, because I want to.
For now, I'll continue to pray and talk to God from here.
I hope we all find our comfort zone, whether it is in a building or in our heart.

God Bless us all,
chickadee

quote:

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Originally posted by chickadee:
For now, I'll continue to pray and talk to God from here.
I hope we all find our comfort zone, whether it is in a building or in our heart.

God Bless us all,
chickadee

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Chick, you hit the nail on the head.