Speakermom, I was curious about the mailing to yourself thing also. Our B&N didn't have a copy of the book so I haven't read what it actually says. Maybe it advises you do that during the development of a book or something. ??
There are plenty of reasons NOT to rely on anything but registration with the U.S. Copyright Office as proof of copyright.
For one thing, even if the unopened mailing is accepted as proof of authorship, you have to pay for all the investigation and attorney fees to get it before a judge. And even if you win, you only get 'actual monetary damages' which are usually practically nothing.
However, if you register your copyright with the U.S. Copyright office ($30) the U.S. Govt. pays for all the investigation of the infringement of your copyright (which exists for 75 years after you die) because infringement is a federal CRIME and carries with it a $10,000 fine and a possible prison term. Plus if you win in court, you are eligible for not only what it actually cost you, but what the people who stole your work made from it and punitive damages which could be millions of dollars.

For some reason writers seem adverse to registering copyrights. I don't know why. It's so easy. Just do a search for U.S. Copyright Office. The forms are online.
My writer friends go to great lengths to create "proof of copyright" rather than registering. Am I missing something here? I register everything, especially my songs. I learned that the hard way when my songs were stolen and I couldn't afford to pursue a case.
REGISTER
smile

[ November 06, 2004, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Dear Sherri and All:

So you are doing the November Novel Writing Thing. And you're doing freelance work. It sounds as if you are on the right track. Thanks for your nice welcome.
Carolyn

Dear Pamela:
You said, "My first novel was published this past Summer and I was lucky enough to have the Boomer Ladies Book Club read it a few months ago.....I knew NOTHING about book promotion when I signed with my small press publisher but quickly learned that I would be doing all the promoting MYSELF. I'm learning quick - the old "trial by fire" method!"

As you learned book clubs are an excellent way to gain exposure. We can also learn a lot about how our READERS view our writing by listening to what readers (as opposed to fellow writers) have to say about our work. One of my closes author friend found, though, that it is a good idea to be published before you subject your book to a reader's club--otherwise they get the idea that it is their "job" to rewrite it for you. LOL!!

Dear Smile:
First of all, thank you!!! You said, "We are happy to have you with us. You will find loving spirits and listening hearts here. I am printing out your web page to hand out to a writers meeting tomorrow." You are obviously well on your way to being a great promoter (or public relations professional! (-: ) That's what PR is; treating people with love, networking and passing the word! Dotsie was right when she said that her group was special!

Dotsie and Speakermom:
Regarding that copyright thing (and no, Speaker mom, I don't take offense! A good robust conversation is always a good thing! (-:
There have been lots of changes in the copyright laws recently and that's one reason I wrote the first chapter on "fear" and put it first because that fear of plagiarism is almost always foremost on the minds of my students and fellow critique group members. I am not a lawyer and this shouldn't be considered legal advice. But the words "copyright (or the insignia) and the date cover most writers as thoroughly as they need to be covered. The next step is the envelope thing that Dotsie mentioned and the next is registering your copyright with the US government. The whole chapter is dedicated to this subject and the fear that drives the interest in it and I can't rewrite it here; suffice it to say--sort of a bottom line--that if you aren't prepared to sue over infringements (either you can't afford the time or money) then having the most watertight copyright in the world isn't going to help you much. I want my work to be read. I'd like to see your work be read. We can't let worry about plagiarism cripple us. And remember, if someone copied your work verbatim, you not only have to prove that they did it, you also have to prove that they made some money from it in order to make a suit worthwhile. So, why all the fuss? Take the precautions that you feel comfortable with and move on. But a mailed, sealed envelope full of your material is really more protection than you'll ever need. Once you are published, let your publisher worry about anything more "official" than that. Not advice, remember???
(-:
C.

Smilinize:
Smilinize said, "I'm heading for B & N later this morning to look for the book. Of course I have nothing to promote, but I want it for two friends who are self publishing. And I need it before tomorrow! Of course I am the same person who posted about trying to weed out books too, but..."

I have to suppose that you were disappointed. BN has a process by which they accept (or not) books for their list from which their stores are "allowed" to order. It takes about 8 weeks. My paperback was submitted for their perusal only about six weeks ago. (It was not released until Sept. 1.) You won't find it at BN and I hope I can legitimately say, "yet." And then, once it is "accepted," not all BNs will carry it. Ah,the woes of publishers and authors!!! You can get it rather quickly from BN.com and Amazon. Unfortunately that won't fix your problem for you. I hope you thought of an Amazon gift certificate! (-:
C.

Robin:
You wrote: " On the writing class: Do you think it is better to go to an actual class or would I get just as much out of an online class. I've been pondering this for awhile."
"REAL" CLASSROOMS AND ONLINE OFFER DIFFERENT ADVANTAGES. THE DANGERS TO ONLINE AS I SEE IT IS THAT 1. THERE ARE TONS OF PEOPLE "TEACHING" ONLINE WHO ARE ILL EQUIPPED TO DO SO (PUBLISHING A BOOK DOES NOT MEAN ONE IS AN EXPERT ON STRUCTURE, AS AN EXAMPLE). IF YOU DECIDE TO GO THE ONLIN ROUTE, STUDY THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE TEACHER AND THE SPONSORING SITE/SCHOOL THOROUGHLY. IT'S BETTER TO PAY MORE TO GET GREAT TRAINING IF NECESSARY.
2. ONLINE COURSES DON'T USUALLY HELP YOU SET UP A QUALIFIED CRITIQUE GROUP IN YOUR AREA. IT MAY, HELP YOU WITH A GOOD ONLINE ONE, THOUGH.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I'D RATHER HAVE AN ONLINE CLASS TAUGHT BY A GREAT WRITER/TEACHER THAN A LOCAL ONE TAUGHT BY SOMEONE WHO CAN'T EXPLAIN HOW TO USE THE VERB "TO LIE." JUST BE CAREFUL WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE!

ROBIN ALSO SAID, "Also (sorry I have a lot of questions) What do you think of writers groups? Is it worthwhile for me, as a beginner, to join one? I just recently became aware of the North Carolina Writers Group and was thinking of joining. (I've recently moved here)" I'M NOT SURE IF YOU MEAN WRITERS' CRITIQUE GROUPS HERE. IF SO, THEY CAN BE FANTASTIC. DO CONSIDER THE QUALIFICATIONS/EXPERTISE OF ANYONE--FELLOW AUTHOR OR TEACHER--WHO OFFERS YOU ADVICE. ONLINE, IN A WRITERS GROUP OR ELSEWHERE. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT A PERSON WHOSE "ONLY" QUALIFICATION IS THAT THEY ARE A READER ARE TO BE IGNORE. IT'S JUST THAT YOU WOULD EVALUATE HER COMMENTS DIFFERENTLY.
c.

PS SPEAKERMOM:
YOU SAID, "This is a nice myth floating around among some writers. I attended a workshop on copyright law and the attorney who presented answered that common myth saying no judge would accept a sealed envelop with postmark as proof of copyright and it wouldn't stand up in court."

I LOVE LAWYERS. I HAVE A SON WHO IS ONE. BUT REMEMBER THAT COPYRIGHT LAWYERS CAN'T MAKE MUCH MONEY UNLESS THEY SELL SERVICES. IT IS SO HARD TO WIN A COPYRIGHT CASE THAT EVEN WITH A FULLY OFFICIAL, LEGAL COPYRIGHT IN HAND (BY THE WAY THESE ARE EASY TO DO AND ONLY COST ABOUT $30 IF YOU DO THEM YOURSELF) YOUR CHANCES OF "WINNING" ANYTHING ARE PRETTY SLIM. I PREFER TO TAKE THE PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH THUS: SOMEONE COPIES YOUR WORK. YOU FIND THEM BY SELF-SURFING THE WEB. YOU WRITE AND SAY, PRETTY MUCH, "AHA, I CAUGHT YOU!" AND YOU SAY, LET'S MAKE THIS WIN-WIN. YOU EITHER PAY ME OR TAKE A TRADE OUT IN EXPOSURE FOR MY BOOK IN ADS FOR MY BOOK OR RECOMMENDATIONS FOR IT (THEY MUST HAVE LIKED IT WELL ENOUGH TO COPY FROM IT, RIGHT?) AND WE'LL ALL WALK AWAY FROM THIS HAPPY. I HAD THIS HAPPEN ONCE, VERY RECENTLY. THEY DIDN'T ASK ME FOR A COPYRIGHT. THEY JUST GAVE ME AN AD WORTH ABOUT $400. WHICH IS LOTS MORE THAN I WOULD HAVE ASKED FOR IN REPRINT RIGHTS, ANYWAY! WHAT GOOD WOULD A COPYRIGHT HAVE DONE ME. AGAIN, THIS ISN'T ADVICE. I'M JUST SHARING MY THEORIES. IF ANY OF YOU NEED TO BE SUPER CAREFUL BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOU'RE BUILT, THEN HAVE AT IT. LOL. TO EACH HER OWN.
BEST, C.

Dear Smile:
You said: "especially my songs." Wow, this is something I know nothing about. I have a friend who deals with rights in the music world and she is very, very cautious, too. A different world. I'll tell you, though, if I registered everything I wrote, I would have spend literally thousands in copyright fees. I guess we each have to weigh what we have at stake for each of our works. I know that if someone used the plot behind my novel, This is the Place, that registered copyright of no, I would have a heck of a time getting punitive damages or any other kind out of them. This kind of thing is in the LA papers all the time. Nobody ever beats Disney. Remember The Lion King? And the difference between the method used to copyright isn't probably going to be the defining part of the case; rather it will be how similar the material and something called "intent." Plus, even if I thought I had a 99% chance of winning I would have to find a lawyer who would take it on contingency and he'd have to decide whether or not he would make enough money to take it on IF he won, or I'd have to dig up the funds to pay a lawyer by the case or by the hour. You know what???? That just isn't going to happen. Guess they'll have to use my plot with three changes (or something like that) so they can get away with it and I'm just going to have to get my pleasure from knowing my material was that good to begin with!! Am I going on and on here?? >smile>

Wow!! What a great compliment especialy coming from a professional.
I'm afraid I am really an amateur at this whole thing. I would never have even got a website if I had not foud this site. I have learned so much from the women here.

And Dotsie is the most special of all. She has the patiece of Job and the most loving spirit in the world. She encourages us all to reach for the stars all the time. I can't wait for her book to come out. I am dying to see her on Oprah. I fly to harpo studios to be in the audience. I bet Oprah would tell us to look under our seats to find our own copy of Dotsie's book.
WOW!! And I want to borrow a friend's professional movie camera and do a documentary of a cross country tour where we meet a lot of the boomer wmen. (JJ and I are planning to get the Chippendale Dancers for drivers--Whoopee!!--Wanna' come along??--Shhh... Don't tell Dotsie)

Anyway, welcome again.
smile
P.S. A writer friend is trying to find a copy of your book for our meeting tomorrow.