I am going to pull us away for a moment from the intense sadness we've been talking about. All of you who have discussed the loss of your child, it is not meant to replace or displace your topic. Your need is far deeper and I, like the other ladies, will always listen and try to soothe. Its just that I noticed that Dotsie remembered one of the topics in this forum was the physical distance between parents and their children/grandchildren, and probably one that I introduced as one of my issues in earlier posts. It is another way to feel grief and it is at the top of my list of heartaches. My son and his wife moved away 10 years ago right after their marriage. No valid reason other than to join her parents who were retiring. This put 1100 miles between us and our family up here, including his only brother, our other son. We could not or weren't allowed to, discuss the downsides of this move, especially the sacrifice he and we would be forced to endure, the separation. It was difficult at first but has increased in pain as now, in the past seven years, he has given us 3 grandchildren, our only ones. I never knew anyone could feel love like this. We spend so little time with them, but whenever we have, it is the best times of our lives. The time away, is too long and frequent as it is very hard to go back and forth and he no longer can travel back up here. My mom hasn't even seen the kids in years and has never met the newest addition. There is so much I can go into here but the post would be pages long. What I need to do now is just get some support. I cry even as I write. Birthdays, holidays, events that all my friends and relatives are able to enjoy with their grandkids, is something we can't have. I am often filled with envy. We can't move because it would put the same distance between us and our loved ones up here and there are several other reasons to go with that. No webcams or snowbirding works either. I am frustrated, angry, sad. Dining room table purchased for family dinners - chairs are empty. Here came midlife, not the way we planned it. And people are so cruel. They are not sensitive to our plight. Just brag about the fun they're having. My job was a good distraction, somewhat, but I got thrown out with the reorg because of a physopathic boss who hurt me any way he could (including my pension). Well, that's another issue for later.