Dancer, thank you for saying this about perfectionist. It was on my mind to mention that we don't have to take the term "perfectionist" as we think of it in common use. Obsessive compulsive actions can be "perfectionist" while the house is a pig pen. Repeating something in the mind, like a phrase, or a counting sequence, is a "perfectionistic" characteristic. Much of the astrology has been translated to English from ancient languages, so some words do not interpret as tightly as we might think. I think we might think of these terms more broadly. Just a thought from taking one minor class on astrology and a major astrologist in my family. Humlan, my husband is a Virgo. If Virgos don't like to be lied to then why does my Virgo husband lie? Theastrologers say that Virgos are successful "later in life." Isn't being in your fifties later? Another thing about Virgos: MH is not a perfectionist no matter how broadly I try to define it, and he does not demand it of others. Or maybe because I am a recovering perfectionist Aries he does not have to be demanding? He has called me "hard headed." Aries: think too much.