One American, one British, two Canadians were to be executed yesterday. They are members of 'Christian Peacemakers ', a world wide grass roots organization of Christians who try to make this world a safer place through non violent ways.

Last week they were captured by a group in Iraq, who said they would execute these men unless all prisoners in Iraq were released.

Yesterday the men were given a reprieve until Saturday....

But the demands of the kidnappers will not be met.

Throughout the universe Goodness exists.....
All people are born Good.......

May those who are holding these men
have mercy and compassion ...........

<small>[ December 10, 2005, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Norma, as a mother my heart grieves for these four men.

I am so sick of these people that we are trying to defend kidnapping "our" people, (yours and mine) as well as other peace keepers of other countries. They seem to pick the easier targets.

These kidnappers are so despicable that they cannot even leave peace-keeping men to do their work.

Let's pray together, that these mens lives will be spared. Unfortunately we all know we cannot always cave in to the demands of extremists or we'll be facing more and more of them every day.

my apology, i should have put
"Christian Peacemakers" i have corrected it.

Among other things...Islam teaches "Allah is merciful and compassionate ", Christianity teaches "Do good to those who would hurt you",
Judaism teaches "Do not return evil for evil" .

Saturday has come and gone, there has been no word from the islamic hostage takers or the christian hostages .......

The silence is deafening....
i wonder if the days will ever come when we each recognize our commonalities rather than our
differences ? It's not as if there will be no further work to be done ...

I have decided today to forgive God, for allowing us to be so often barbaric to each other .
I dont think that will make a difference to God..
but it makes a difference to me.

<small>[ December 12, 2005, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Jesus said "offenses will come, but woe unto those through whom they come". In other words, we are going to have evil in this world but don't let it come through you (that's a general "you" not directed at anyone here)...We can't stop the evil but we can make sure WE do what's right.

I firmly believe that there's a reason for everything that happens. I remember when I was first diagnosed with cancer, "Why me, God? What is the reason for this." I didn't get an answer that day. Now I figure that surviving cancer made me a stronger and compassionate person.

This certainly doesn't answer the question of why the world seems to be full of people who do horrendous things to each other. But it makes ME feel better. And I think it does matter to God that someone feels better.

Does that make sense?

Norma, I'm not so sure these men have anything in common with us anymore.

It's another example of "mans' inhumanity to man."

I don't mean to make light of this thread in any way but saw a t-shirt that read:

* * *
3 WISE MEN?
(be serious)

<small>[ December 12, 2005, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]</small>

My dad always said, "All things for a purpose." I believe these people who do these awful things are baby souls. Although they are physically grown, they react with tantrum behavior to get their way. They are into power, adrenaline rushes, all kinds of things that bring them attention. This is one of the reasons reincarnation makes sense to me. Each lifetime we have the opportunity to learn. Each life we add to our love and compassion quotient, until finally we are mature souls. With some of us it takes a long time and with some the growth comes quickly.

There's a quote I like that helps when things don't make sense to me:

"The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly." Richard Bach.

<small>[ December 12, 2005, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Vi ]</small>

Jackie...it makes perfect sense to me...(((Hugs)))

Hi Bluebird, thanks for replying, although i don't believe there exists a place of punishment beyond this life for cruel actions during one's lifetime, i believe we will experience shame and remorse (woe?) when those actions and their consequences are revealed to us if we did not know regret nor attempt to make amends during this lifetime.

I can understand what your saying Jackie. We do develop deeper understanding, strength and appreciation through difficulties. Your cancer is an example of the many troubles people have to cope with in everyday living. It is also true that very often some troubles are too big and and lives are destroyed. That's why a couple of years back, i've said 'hey, enough already God, ordinary people have enough problems, we dont need thugs with large weapons to add to everyone's problems, i dont trust you."

Vi mentioned 'the end of the world', when an individual leaves this life, is it not the end of this world for that person? ... If we are given the opportunity to come back do you think it will be obligatory, or a free choice ?

If given the choice, would any of you come back again ? Would you be apprehensive ?

Chatty there has to be more than 3 wise men, but finding 3 all in the same place? Right!

I dont know if we have much in common with those who threaten to murder their captives Bug, but i believe no one was meant to become evil.

to each of you, thank you for letting me express these thoughts....

<small>[ December 13, 2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Norma, I've mentioned this is past posts, but I'll say it again to reply to your question.

I believe that I have at least one more time around on earth. This actually caused an argument between me and someone who professed to be an Indian Holy Man. He said I would have my final ascenscion at the end of this lifetime, and I said, "No, I have more work to do."

I have bits of memory from past lives. Even though my past physical bodies have gone back into the larger universe in the form of atoms, my soul is on the latter legs of a very long journey.

That's interesting Meredith.

One of my favorite meditations is: why do spiritual beings (us humans) start life on a material plane?

My belief is that our soul progresses for eternity, beginning with this world, but continuing through spiritual worlds as yet unknown to us. The physical world teaches certain lessons that we can only learn here. Like unborn infants in utero, we are developing on earth the spiritual limbs and senses that we'll need in future spiritual worlds. If we don't develop these things here, we'll go to the afterlife maybe spiritually blind, spiritually crippled. So the sinners on earth are harming themselves. God is just.

Jesus is and was a man. The twelve apostles were men. Were they not wise? Their teachings were made into words in the Bible.

I would want to come back again.

i'm of the same mind DJ, in that i also believe we are on spiritual journeys, and at this point restricted within physical bodies ..... so many things to learn within this restriction.....
but i would not want to come back .... too many suffer needlessly because of the greed, bigotry and self imposed ignorance of certain individuals who seem to have existed in powerful places throughout history.. .....

you people who would come back are alot more courageous than i....

Have a good week all of you,

<small>[ December 13, 2005, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Someone once told me when things were going particularly bad for me, "You must have done something awful in a past life to deserve this." Needless to say, this person is no longer a friend.

Not sure if I'd want to come back or not!

Bad things just do happen.

I'm glad you "ditched" this so-called tactless friend.

I like your idea, DJ, but I think we keep returning in corporeal form to learn the lessons we need to know.

Norma, I also believe we're put here on earth to bring light into the darkness, which many would call evil. To me, returning to this plane of existence is not a matter of courage so much as believing it's why I exist in this form in the first place.

I exist because of the good work I'm capable of doing. It took me decades to understand this.

Jackie, it's hard to believe the person was serious eh, but if she was i'm not surprised.
Scarlet fever, diptheria, small pox, and pnuemonia for example were still killing thousands when i was very young, and yet people were often told these sufferings were trials sent as punishment or tests from God, or to correct one's behavior, etc. children born mentally handicapped were often considered 'punishment' for some sin of the parents. Surely most of us are old enough to remember when no body got pregnant before marriage, but a lot of teenagers and young women went away 'for holidays at an aunt's' for four or five months - to hide their 'shame' and 'sin'
In north america and western europe many beliefs have certainly changed about 'why' certain things happen ....

But i've drifted from the topic, sorry bout that.

<small>[ December 13, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

I believe that we have a choice as to whether or not we come back again. I believe that if we are spiritually advanced, even if enough for ascenscion, we can defer that ascenscion and come back to help.

I think I've been here lots of times, and I'm getting tired of all the immaturity. Sometimes I think that humanity is an experiment that didn't work - all the bigotry and small mindedness and destructiveness - a lot of it in the name of God, no less. And yet, I believe that we learn and grow, so . . .

There are a lot of good thoughts here. A lot of them. This is a cool discussion.

Vi

Good answer Norma and I would not want to come back as myself but possibly as someone with the intellect and the power to do good and nothing but good, and be able to discourage and keep others from doing wrong, terrible things to their fellow human....This isn't possible so going around just once is fine with me...

Humanity is an experiment that didn't work". I love that statement! Can I borrow it?

I think this discussion is great, too.

Yes, Jackie, you can borrow it. I've watched a lot of science fiction. So this is a natural conclusion. Remember the Greek mythology movies where the gods are sitting in the heavens betting on whether the mortals are going to make it through their trials, like cliffs that bang together, that kind of thing? I think of that sometimes, when it seems like things just aren't going to work out. It lightens things a bit for me.

<small>[ December 15, 2005, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Vi ]</small>

sometimes i think we were sent to this far away planet, just as some were once sent to Australia ... somewhere, somehow we didn't follow the rules.

It just seems that each person, no matter how fortunate they may be, each person given enough time, eventually comes to know a grief, despair, or loniliness that seems beyond the ability to cope ...

In one form or another, it seems to me, all want acceptance, respect and kindness (love)
even if it means trying to buy it, or trying to achieve it force...... (this love being the state we once knew prior to entering here)

The meaning of life eh... good heavens, we could have been burned at the stake just a few centuries ago, for some of these musings......

<small>[ December 15, 2005, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

I like reading what others think about this topic. I'll share my thoughts...

I believe my afterlife will be spent in heaven where there will only be bliss. I don't believe in reincarnation. We get one chance at this life and that's enough.

I also don't believe God is a punishing God. He is a God of love only. He doesn't promise us only good things in this life. He simply promises to walk by our side to give us the strength, courage and wisdom to carry on while we are on earth.

as of this day we know now that there are only three hostages ..... the body of one has been found .. i've come to believe we live in a world governed by insanity ....

<small>[ March 11, 2006, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

RESCUED !!!! The other three were rescued today!!

Thank God!!

Thank God for the rescue...by the way, whatever happened to that young woman who was a hostage a few weeks ago? I didn't hear a thing about her and I was praying for her and her family...

I've never been here before. I remember things from when I was 1 1/2 yrs. old. My parents are amazed. I did strange things when I was very young and have been labeled a strange (but wonderful) child by nearly everyone who ever met me. Its been a lonely life.

I believe God created all of us, that the people of the world were all destroyed at the flood (and there is scientific proof of that....) that when Noah and his three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth were dispursed throughout the planet to different parts of the world their bodies had to adapt so I believe in adaptation rather than evolution.

Also, I believe this life is but boot camp for eternity. I am an eternal being just like my Lord. I will live on forever in eternity with God and all the saints who have gone before me. In this life we aren't promised bliss and freedom from strife and pain, but we ARE promised the help, comfort and aid of the very creator of our bodies and souls, the owner of my soul and body also assists and guides me. For that, even in the midst of heartache, pain, anger and confusion, joy breaks through just like the sun right after the rain because I look on the face of Christ and I know his love for me. I feel his presence and am empowered with his wisdom and strength when I'm weakest and at the lowest point because its only through my weakness that the strength of God can be seen.

I am so happy to be in the midst of such talented and wonderful women who think and feel. I see all of us as works in process and pray for our journey.