Hi Bluebird, thanks for replying, although i don't believe there exists a place of punishment beyond this life for cruel actions during one's lifetime, i believe we will experience shame and remorse (woe?) when those actions and their consequences are revealed to us if we did not know regret nor attempt to make amends during this lifetime.

I can understand what your saying Jackie. We do develop deeper understanding, strength and appreciation through difficulties. Your cancer is an example of the many troubles people have to cope with in everyday living. It is also true that very often some troubles are too big and and lives are destroyed. That's why a couple of years back, i've said 'hey, enough already God, ordinary people have enough problems, we dont need thugs with large weapons to add to everyone's problems, i dont trust you."

Vi mentioned 'the end of the world', when an individual leaves this life, is it not the end of this world for that person? ... If we are given the opportunity to come back do you think it will be obligatory, or a free choice ?

If given the choice, would any of you come back again ? Would you be apprehensive ?

Chatty there has to be more than 3 wise men, but finding 3 all in the same place? Right!

I dont know if we have much in common with those who threaten to murder their captives Bug, but i believe no one was meant to become evil.

to each of you, thank you for letting me express these thoughts....

<small>[ December 13, 2005, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Norma, I've mentioned this is past posts, but I'll say it again to reply to your question.

I believe that I have at least one more time around on earth. This actually caused an argument between me and someone who professed to be an Indian Holy Man. He said I would have my final ascenscion at the end of this lifetime, and I said, "No, I have more work to do."

I have bits of memory from past lives. Even though my past physical bodies have gone back into the larger universe in the form of atoms, my soul is on the latter legs of a very long journey.

That's interesting Meredith.

One of my favorite meditations is: why do spiritual beings (us humans) start life on a material plane?

My belief is that our soul progresses for eternity, beginning with this world, but continuing through spiritual worlds as yet unknown to us. The physical world teaches certain lessons that we can only learn here. Like unborn infants in utero, we are developing on earth the spiritual limbs and senses that we'll need in future spiritual worlds. If we don't develop these things here, we'll go to the afterlife maybe spiritually blind, spiritually crippled. So the sinners on earth are harming themselves. God is just.

Jesus is and was a man. The twelve apostles were men. Were they not wise? Their teachings were made into words in the Bible.

I would want to come back again.

i'm of the same mind DJ, in that i also believe we are on spiritual journeys, and at this point restricted within physical bodies ..... so many things to learn within this restriction.....
but i would not want to come back .... too many suffer needlessly because of the greed, bigotry and self imposed ignorance of certain individuals who seem to have existed in powerful places throughout history.. .....

you people who would come back are alot more courageous than i....

Have a good week all of you,

<small>[ December 13, 2005, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Someone once told me when things were going particularly bad for me, "You must have done something awful in a past life to deserve this." Needless to say, this person is no longer a friend.

Not sure if I'd want to come back or not!

Bad things just do happen.

I'm glad you "ditched" this so-called tactless friend.

I like your idea, DJ, but I think we keep returning in corporeal form to learn the lessons we need to know.

Norma, I also believe we're put here on earth to bring light into the darkness, which many would call evil. To me, returning to this plane of existence is not a matter of courage so much as believing it's why I exist in this form in the first place.

I exist because of the good work I'm capable of doing. It took me decades to understand this.

Jackie, it's hard to believe the person was serious eh, but if she was i'm not surprised.
Scarlet fever, diptheria, small pox, and pnuemonia for example were still killing thousands when i was very young, and yet people were often told these sufferings were trials sent as punishment or tests from God, or to correct one's behavior, etc. children born mentally handicapped were often considered 'punishment' for some sin of the parents. Surely most of us are old enough to remember when no body got pregnant before marriage, but a lot of teenagers and young women went away 'for holidays at an aunt's' for four or five months - to hide their 'shame' and 'sin'
In north america and western europe many beliefs have certainly changed about 'why' certain things happen ....

But i've drifted from the topic, sorry bout that.

<small>[ December 13, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

I believe that we have a choice as to whether or not we come back again. I believe that if we are spiritually advanced, even if enough for ascenscion, we can defer that ascenscion and come back to help.

I think I've been here lots of times, and I'm getting tired of all the immaturity. Sometimes I think that humanity is an experiment that didn't work - all the bigotry and small mindedness and destructiveness - a lot of it in the name of God, no less. And yet, I believe that we learn and grow, so . . .

There are a lot of good thoughts here. A lot of them. This is a cool discussion.

Vi