I am having some really horrible feelings and thoughts about my daughter's upcoming wedding and wouldn't mind other's perspective. She is marrying into a very "ethnic" family, shall we say? His Mom is very controlling and has her nose into everything. Last night they had an engagement party, which they chose to do themselves, because in my family, this is not normally done. His Mom came up to me at the party and because she speaks broken english, I am not exactly sure of what she was trying to say. But the jist of it was "you love your daughter, I love my son." and then went on to say we should surprise them. I thought she was talking about a shower. But she said no, the engagement. And from that point on, I was trying to understand what she was trying to say, but with great difficulty. But what I got was this - I think she was trying to say that we should pay for this engagement party that THEY chose to do. I was very taken back that she would even have the gall to ask such a thing. Now - we are not wealthy. We are the average american family. I also have 2 other children that will someday be married and I feel we should help out equally. We have told our daughter that we will give them a certain amount of money to help out with the wedding, but there is no way we can pay for the whole thing. These kids want alot and his family is very large. Our is not. I feel if they want all this extra stuff - then they can pay for it. - example - he is talking about having a cigar bar at the wedding. Alot has already happened that I am feeling very slighted about. When I was a bride, all gifts went to the brides house. Here they went to the groom's parents house. There has been talk about the shower. My daughter wants it in a hall with both sides together. But how am I gonna communicate with this woman. I am the brides Mom and I refuse to allow her to run the show.There are certain things that I wanted to do for my dau
ghter for her wedding and I feel it is all being taken away from me. I know this is long, but there is so much more to it...I am looking for some advise. Has anyone gone thru anything similar? Am I being unfair? Is this "stinkin thinkin? HELP!!! Thank You for listening!

I read this earlier today and stepped back from it a bit and then came back. It bothers me for you. Although I don't have any wisdom to offer, I can tell you what I WOULD DO.

If it were my daughter, then I would be calling the shots. Language barrier or not, I would very nicely, but very adamantly state that NO, that did not suit me, and we would NOT be doing this. I would say YES to what I wanted to agree to, and an absolute NO to the things I did not.

Emotional blackmail would not work with me, and between this woman and others, isn't this what it amounts to? They are playing on your emotions, because it IS an emotional time.

I believe in this. R-E-S-P-E-C-T. And they better understand it from the get-go. It would NOT be taken away from me. First and foremost, I would have a talk with my daughter and explain what you COULD and COULD NOT, or WOULD NOT do. End of story. Anything else they wanted to do, so be it. They would be on their own.

Secondly, I would tell the other woman that you do not agree with the "surprise" and if she insist on doing it, two things would happen. She would be footing the bill, AND you would be informing you daughter. TAKE BACK CONTROL. It's YOUR daughter and you have every right to voice your opinion.

I not saying that you should go in and bulldoze the place and everybody in your path. But TELL THEM how you feel and what you WILL and WON'T do before it is too late and then YOU have built up all of this resentment. This special day would be ruined for you ... Don't let that happen.

I wish you the very best in figuring this all out!

JJ

Oh J.J., you said it well, and I feel exactly the same way. I didn't run into those issues when my daughter got married 15 months ago. I really think his parents knew it was the girl's family who was "in charge" of the wedding plans since they had girls of their own. However, I will say that I called his mom every single time there was a date to be discussed regarding the engagement, shower and even baby shower. I wanted to be sure she was available before I went on with the planning. She was very appreciative that I asked her first before any final bookings. She also asked if there was anything she could do, and even offered her house for one of the parties. I refused and said I would prefer to have it out in a restaurant and she graciously stepped back. Yes, we are different too in many ways, but we RESPECT each other and will continue to do so. I doubt that we ever will be best of friends since we don't have very much in common (other than our children's marriage), but that is fine, so long as we are cordial to each other. Craftyone...if you don't fix this now, things will be her way forever. By that I mean, where all the holidays will be spent and issues with grandchildren as well. I agree with J.J., a sit-down talk with your daughter is in order, RIGHT NOW!

BRAVO, JJ thats exact and excellent advice. It leaves nothing to chance and tells it straight and to the point...Craftyone, listen to what she's said and you can't go wrong. I agree fully and thats what needs to be done. Ever notice how some people speak NO english or speak it badly until they have a point to make and then they can become quite clear...

Thank You Ladies! I know in my heart what you say is true. I called my daughter tonight to ask her if they had recouperated from the party and to see if they opened their gifts. She sounded down, but said she was tired. She worked all day - so that is possible. She and her fiance want to come over and talk, but its gonna be a little bit before we can do that, unfortunately. We have busy schedules and opposite ones too. But WE WILL get to do this. I just have that feeling that she is gonna tell me we are being cheap. I honestly don't think its her talking, but all the ouside influences. I am just not a believer in working your butt off and giving it all to your kids. They need to earn it just like we had to...and still are...My parents paid for half of our hall and my dress - that was it. His parents paid for the flowers, the rehearsal dinner (which was at their house) and I think the booze too. But we paid for the rest. And we made our way thru life earning it - no one ever gave us anything. I think it made us stronger. I do not regret it at all. I think if they do have an issue with us, I am going to bring up the episode with the mother. AND I am going to tell them exactly how I am feeling and thinking, and get it all out in the open. I just needed to hear from someone unbiased that I was doing the "right" thing. I don't want to alienate anyone. Thank You for your input. It helps tremendously.

Have your talk with your daughter soon. Try not to let anything else get in the way. The sooner the better. Otherwise, things will fester and get blown out of control.

My daughter got married last November and we and the "in-laws" worked everything out equally. We paid for the dress, the cake, flowers, etc. They paid for the reception, food, booze, honeymoon, etc. We got it all straightened out through my daughter. It was her wedding so all decisions went through her. But, we remained reasonable. And she understood this. She didn't make any outrageous requests in the middle of plans, and that made things go much smoother. So smooth, in fact, that I surprised her and her sister with a morning at the spa on her wedding day.

Don't let this woman run the wedding, because she'll be running your daughter's life afterward. And like was said, you'll come in second when it comes to holidays and such. Get everything out in the open with your daughter, let your feelings be known, but try not to make it all about you. That will just turn your daughter off and she might get angry with you.

I wish you much success and congratulations on the marriage of your daughter!

A wedding can be so stressful for everyone, when really it should be a day of joy and celebration.

I don't have any daughters (just sons) but I firmly believe that the bride and groom should choose what they want to do, not the parents of either of them. I've seem more parents trying to control everything and then the wedding couple don't get what THEY want. It is, after all, THEIR wedding.

Now I don't mean you should pay for everything. Some friends of ours told their daughter they would give her X amount of dollars for the whole shebang - rehearsal dinner, wedding, etc - and they could spend it as they pleased. Then they offered to physically help with anything they could. The daughter was SO happy to be able to plan her own wedding without both sets of parents competing for control. It was a wonderful day for everyone!

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me - please let us know how it works out for your family. And try to enjoy this special time in your daughter's life!

Kathy

Could this be a different culture thing? A lot can get lost in translation when you can't understand what is being said. I'd find someone who speaks both languages well to interpret what exactly is being asked for.

Emotions run so high during weddings. I was complaining about my ex on this site last year when my son was getting married and his refusual or inability to help out. In the end, he paid for his half of the debts required.

My son and wife paid and planned their own wedding. One reason is both sides of the family live far away. But, everything was exactly how they wanted it and we gave them money as a gift to help with the costs and another gift for something they needed...air conditioning as they live in the desert and didn't have any!!!!

If you can't afford to pay for something like a cigar bar, tell them so or let the groom pay for it. It's his idea! If he wants to look good before his friends and family, he should be willing to pay for it.

As someone mentioned earlier, be careful that this doesn't create long lasting bad feelings. Do what you can or are willing to do and stick to your guns.

I feel for you!

Since she didn't mention what culture it is, I don't know, but I think JJ gave you some excellent advice. Stand up for yourself, speak to your daughter and DON'T let anyone talk you into something you don't want to do and can't afford to do. As you say, this is not your only child. But it is your daughter and you are the MOTHER OF THE BRIDE.

Louisa

Well - enter the second chapter of the saga of the wedding. We sat down last night with my daughter and future son-in-law. It turned ugly. I am very upset and my husband is very angry and I wonder now if we will ever have a good relationship with him. My SIL (son-in-law) wanted to know how much we were going ot pay for this wedding. He proceeded to tell us that his Mother paid for that engagement party I told you all about. Now....my husband thought SIL was VERY disrespectful in some of his comments. One of which was reference to how much of a gift they got from a relative of ours. Another was his incinuation that we were not doing enough for our daughter. SIL proceeded to ask if what in terms of $$$ he can count on in gifts from our side. My husband blew his cork. We tried to tell them that if they cannot afford the wedding they want then they need to tone it down. SIL started to blame my dtr because she wanted a certain hall and they signed for it, but now he says its too expensive. This is just a tip of the iceberg that crashed thru here last night. I am very concerned about my dtr. We have never before seen this side of SIL. She is very stressed out and is coming apart at the seams. If this man is such a spoiled baby that is tied to Mom's apron strings and Mom pays for everything, what kind of a life is this going to be for her. Especially if he does not get his way with things. Anyone have any wise words for me? My husband says this is not over and he is very hurt and angry that this young man would come into our home and speak to us this way.

I am so sorry to hear of such discord on the run up to what ought to be a most beautiful event in your lives. Have your daughter and the future son-in-law gone for pre-cana counselling? It might help them to focus on the more the important issues as they seem to be giving more weight to the superficial. At the end of the day, you and your husband can only do the best with what you can and have. If such is not enough, then there really is nothing more you can do but pray that your daughter may be able to see through the attitudes which precedes the wedding and is hopefully able to determine what the future may be like for her.

Craftyone, I am so sorry. Your "sit-down" did not go very well. I hope things can repair itself, but if your SIL is so spoiled, I am not sure he will change. How dare he ask how much money is expected from your side of the family. How old is he? Has your daughter known him for a long time? Sometimes wedding planning can bring out the worst in people due to all the stress. I hope it will pass and that he will apologize to you and your husband. Try to speak to your daughter alone, but be careful...be sure not to bad mouth your SIL in front of her. Simply tell her that your feelings are hurt and that you have done the best you and her dad could do financially. It will then be up to her to explain to your SIL the circumstances. Good Luck.

This is not the middle ages where the bride had to have a dowry. I believe from his actions which showed his true colors, your poor daughter is in for a rath of s--t from this money hungry, mammas boy once married. He is lucky he wasn't sitting opposite me because in no uncertain terms I would have told him that we would do/give what we were able and that if it did not meet with his specifications then we would give zip, nada, nothing, maybe he like that better? As far as our relatives tell him you would never think of asking or telling them an amount to give. You are happy they are coming and enjoying this special day with you...This rude, spoiled little creep has much to learn and pussy footing around him and this situation isn't the way. Stand your ground. Hopefully your daughter will understand and has grown up with more respect for her elders and her parents. Lets hope his attitude isn't what the future holds for you and your daughter!!

I feel so awful to hear this. I agree with Chatty. I would have chewed him up and spit him out. That was extremely rude of him. He has no right to EXPECT anything from you or any members of your family invited to attend. Doesn't he understand what a "gift" is? He needs to learn some manners and be set straight. Doesn't matter how old he is. This guy is immature and selfish, like his mother. I wish you and your daughter luck.

Louis

Hi Craftyone,

I agree with everyone's comments about standing your ground. I'm curious - did your daughter side with the SIL? Did she let him do all the talking?

If it's possible - try to speak to her alone but you have to be careful not to bad mouth the guy because I've learned from experience that to tell her you think the guy's a creep will just make her protect him.

Ask her how she feels about everything? Is she having any second thoughts about marrying this guy because the money you've already spent doesn't really matter if she wants to change her mind.

In some cultures, the men can be very charming until they have their women under their thumbs then they become very domineering. I work with an Indian girl who's husband listens to his mother before he listens to her and although they are the same ethinicity, she has lived in America long enough, that it causes a rift between them.

You should ask your daughter if she's ok with her husband and his mother calling all the shots because that's the way it will be for the rest of her life.

I feel for you and hope you can get through to your daughter before she makes a big mistake.

And remember, this is just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

My daughter did say a few things, but when it got heated, she did not say alot. I think she was stuck between a rock and a hard place. She said some things, she and I ironed out some things. There was definitely a lack of communication between us that I will not allow to happen again. When I get the opportunity, I will speak with her alone.I am more concerned for her than anything right now. I do not want her to end up in a hospital bed. She was in tears, as was I. But she has told me he is her soulmate, that they share everything.Hubby thinks she should have put her foot down when he started to disrespect us. But I think she is just caught in the middle right now and cannot see the forest thru the trees.
As for him - to answer a few questions. He is first-born generation in the US. He is Italian. I have heard about European men and how charming they are UNTIL they marry and then they change into controlling jerks. I pray for her sake this does not happen. She tells me they talk about everything. But I am not there, so I do not know. We are still in shock I think over this whole mess. We have always loved this guy and welcomed him into our family. He is also 30 years old and there is no excuse whatsoever to act as he did.
One more comment - I was trying to imagine my husband going to MY father before we were married and acting like this kid did. I think My Dad would have tossed him out of his house.
Thanks everyone for your comments. It makes me feel that I am not alone in my thinking. I have no idea what is going to happen, but I keep praying about it.

Oh dear! What a situation. And it sounds like a no-win, one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't." But, it is also one of those situations that will pass. Bear that in mind.

Expection IS THE KEY WORD HERE. Since when do couples "expect" things such as money from relatives? I find that kind of behavior appalling, and I feel for your daughter. I don't think she truly understands that this is a FLAW in character, not something to be admired. There is a big difference between being assertive, and being abrasive. This young man needs to be taken outside behind the woodshed and introduced to Mr. Strap. It's really inexcusable to EXPECT anything from ANY body.

This is a choice the bride-to-be and the young man have made to spend their life together. The invited guest are just that...invited. Invited to witness the happy union, and to share in their joy of these two people, not take them to raise.

It is a sad state of affairs (forgive the pun) when they EXPECT. I just can't help but wonder that if he EXPECTS so much from people (some of whom I'm sure he doesn't even know) NOW, what unrealistic expectations will he place on your daughter day to day, his employer, his children?

I too am worried about your daughter. Now, and sadly...afterwards. I know you will do all you can to protect her and I would do the exact same thing. Good for you. But while doing that, please do not allow this bully to use emotional blackmail with you both. It's just not right. I am also worried about YOUR health, and that of your husbands. Please take care of yourself and if possible, distance yourself from the "goings-on" somehow and focus on something more relaxing, if for only a few minutes a day.

It sounds as if an expensive ceremony and expensive gifts are more important to your daughter's fiance' than her feelings or yours. An attitude such as that might affect their marriage.

Praying for guidance certainly seems in order.
smile

Craftyone, I am Italian as is my husband and most of our family-both sides. We are 2nd generation. We have never, ever demanded anything from any of our parents, or even expected anything more than they graciously chose to give. I think your future SIL is just the exception and is simply spoiled by his mommy and daddy. Sad. I truly hope he changes.

The first warning sign is a 30 year old man still at home with his mommy! I am Italian and this is not the trait of any Italian men I know or ever knew. This guy wants something for nothing and makes me wonder what he has in
mind as far as being a husband is?? Oh, mamma mia!!

Me too. I'm Italian and my first marriage was to an Italian. We had the big wedding and all and in those days it was pretty much the custom that the bride's family paid for the wedding. There were certain customs we followed. While we hoped we would get enough money to help with our honeymoon, we did not expect or ask how much invited guests were going to give. If my father's future SIL had asked him a question like that, he would have been thrown out of our home. Things are a lot different today as far as customs and who pays for what. Weddings are costly. But, common sense, courtesy and respect have not gone out of style. This guy is greedy.

Louisa

Pam,
I did not mean to say that all Italians are like this. In fact, I myself am full blooded Italian and also 2nd generation American born. But we have never expected such things either. In fact, my parents struggled thru life, as my Dad was uneducated. He told us he went thru the 4th grade, but he could not read, so I even doubt he went that far.
The strange thing is that SIL's parents are not in a great financial situation either and I just don't get how they can pay for an entire wedding (daughter's)with her making only $8/hr. Someone is not telling the truth if you ask me.

Chatty -Maybe I did not explain correctly. My dtr and this man have been living together for 2 yrs. Just prior to that is when he moved out of his parents home. The reason she moved in with him - so they say - is because my hubby and I asked her to start paying rent. She was 23, working full time and its something we thought was right. Obviously, my kids think that is wrong. But thats a side issue. Because they have been living together, my hubby thinks that technically, they have been married for 2 yrs.

Thanks!
Crafty

I see nothing wrong and everything right with asking a 23 year-old to pay rent.

I'm with you Dotsie. Both my girls paid a monthly rent afer college when they came home to begin their careers. It was minimal, of course...but they needed to learn to pay their own way in life.

Craftyone...I really hope things get better for your whole family. Life is way too short.

Crafty, just wondering how things are going.

I too think that asking a 23yo to pay rent is the right thing to do!

When my oldest step-son announced that he was getting married to his college sweetheart who was also his live-in girlfriend, her father invited us all to dinner. At this dinner he proceeded to tell the engaged couple how thrilled he was that they were FINALLY getting married . He also stated that the reason he had invited all of us to dinner was to make sure everyone was on the same page as far as wedding preparations were concerned.

He then addressed these comments to his daughter. He said "Your mother and I have worked very hard to provide you and your sisters with the best life we could possibly give you. The one thing we promised ourselves was that we would send each of our girls to the college of their choice and do it so they would have no debt when they finished. I am saying this because you are well aware that your two younger sisters are still in college and we have those expenses. I want you to know that I want your wedding day to be the day that you have always pictured it to be, BUT there will be a budget. This is the amount that your mother and I are able to contribute and we cannot go a penny over this."

I was very impressed that her father laid down the budget to begin with. I think that it made it easier for them to decide what they really wanted for their wedding day. I also think that because they knew that anything over the budget would have to come out of their own pocket they chose everything very carefully. They stayed within the budget and had a very beautiful wedding.

I plan to use this tactic when (if) my other two ever decide to get married!

Excellent Leslie, your husband has earned the father of the year award in my book. Good for you both, this is how it should be done...

Things are not going well at all. I wrote last night, but it does not seem to be here. I am very depressed and can't seem to understand all this. Had a chat with my daughter yesterday. I just feel that what we molded into a beautiful, intelligent young woman, this man has taken away in less than 7 months. Everything that we have done to teach her right from wrong seems to have disappeared. I asked her how she felt about some of the things that were said on that ugly night a couple weeks ago. She is sticking with him. Here is one example that just blows my mind. Maybe mine is a simple mind. But I feel something is not right. I asked her how she felt when he wanted to know how much he could expect from OUR people - meaning the guests we invite. She told me that they have to "be smart" about it. I asked, so does this mean that my friends, Mr & Mrs T, who you have grown up with their children and known all your life, you will not invite because they cannot give you a huge gift? She told me that if it was down to the wire between 2 couples, then they would go with the one that would give more. I wanted to vomit!!!!! This is NOT the daughter I raised.....I am just sick about all this. I just cannot even imagine how this wedding is going to turn out. I cannot even imagine my husband toasting to this couple. I just can't imagine anything good right now.
We also talked about a few other things. One of which this guy thinks that he can talk someone into a deal all the time. I tried to explain to her that if it were my business and someone tried to talk down my price, I would tell them to take their business elsewhere. This guy thinks that everyone should cater to him and his whims. I really am wishing that they NEVER met, NEVER got engaged. OH - by the way - you will NEVER guess where these two met.....at a bible study!!!!!! Go figure. I just keep praying that God will show me the good in this, cuz I just don't see it.

Thanks for letting me vent!

Leslie -
What a wonderful way to go about it, I agree. We did tell our daughter in private in the beginning what our budget was. She seemed ok with it at the time. That is why I think this is all him and his wonderful family that has brainwashed her into their "stinkin thinkin".

Chatty~It was my step-sons father-in-law who said those things NOT my step-sons father (now my ex-husband,we were separated at the time). If the ex had shown just a fraction of the class that my DDIL's father has we would probably still be married. My ex was just happy that he wasn't asked to pay for anything more than the rehersal dinner. (I paid for the flowers). Thank goodness he (my ex) doesn't have any daughters...he'd probably hand them $100 and tell them to elope!

Cathy, my heart goes out to you...this should be such a joyous time for you and your daughter. It is so difficult to stand by and watch as our adult children make choices that we do not understand or agree with. I think that you and your husband are doing the right thing, in that you have told your daughter what it is that you are able to spend on her wedding given your financial circumstances and the fact that you have other children at home. I have seen parents reluctantly go into debt to the tune of 20 or 30 thousand dollars only to have their childs marriage end in divorce. Follow your gut on this. Hang in there!

Cathy, I will keep you in my prayers. I know how hard this must be for you. Seeing changes in your own child is very hard when you know that deep down inside, she is nothing like that. I have a feeling that one day she will come around and wish she had a backbone to stand up to her fiance during this time of planning. Maybe he will come around too and apologize when he grows up.

I just had a thought. Judith Sherven is our relationship expert with the NABBW. Her latest book has to do with couples getting married. Let me find the link fro you because I bet she addresses this in her book.

Okay, Google, Judith Sherven Wedding Book and you will see a couple of her sites. This book may be helpful. Just a thought!

Oh, and they usually offer freebies on their sites and hold teleseminars.

WOW. I just read this thread for the first time today. What a mess. How far away is the wedding?

I agree with several others that your daughter is torn. Her loyalties are with her future husband now and the more that she sees the families torn apart, the more likely she is to move closer to his side. This is tragic.

It sounds like your daughter is caught up in the now - can't see the forest for the trees - and has forgotten what it is she wants for herself and her future. Is there anyway that you (or someone a bit removed from the situation) could try and illicit (?) from her what it is she wants life to look like in the future? Maybe then she could see how this marriage fits or doesn't fit with that bigger picture.

God bless you, your husband and your daughter.

Hello again Ladies-
I need some input. There has not been much interaction between us and our daughter since the last talk we had. In fact, we were at a family party and there were less than 5 words exchanged. Not that I didn't try.
But here is the issue I would like some thoughts on...she sent me an email asking for her birth certificate and telling me that she is going to be measured for her dress and some other things. This email sounded to me like she was talking to an acquaintance, not her mom. She asked me if I want to be there with her. I wrote an email back to her stating that yes I want to be there and in fact I would love to do more. I told her how much this is hurting and breaking my heart. And how this should be one of the happiest times of our lives and has turned into a mess. The question is this - I really don't know if I should send it. I am really trying not to react and allow the evil one in. So I really don't know what to do. Any thoughts?

Cathy,
My heart goes out to you. I can understand and feel what you are going through. The tragedy is that that usually your own children aren't aware of your pain, or worse just don't care.
I'm one who writes down my thoughts when they are running full power. I have learned, though, it's best to sleep a night before sending them. I've saved myself lots of trouble that way. Let your daughter wait a day (no harm in that), and reread your mail as if you were a stranger to the situation. Try to put yourself in your daughters place, and see how she would read it. I'm a very emotional person, and my husband has taught me that the fewer the words; the better it's said.
Yes, of course go and help your daughter. It gives you a good chance to bond again. When with her, just be carefree and happy,…and try not to bring up any problems. Believe me, that will make you the winner between you and MIL.
Hannelore

Cathy, Hannelore is right. I would just tell her I'd love to be there and not mention the rift between you and then, go and enjoy the time with her.

I too agree with Hannelore and Dianne. I would send a happy cheery email that you would love to be there to help with her dress or whatever she needs help with. PERIOD!! No more and no less. Leave it up to her to start any negative conversations but then stand your ground and remember, this to will eventually pass. I am still praying for you. I am praying for so many now that I have to do some in the morning, some in the afternoon and some at night.

Hi Cathy,

I agree with the ladies. When you go to the dress fitting, try to keep it light and fun if you can. I know she's hurt you but try not to show your negative feelings about her fiance'. My daughter was in a relationship with a guy for four years and they fought constantly and belittled each other. This guy really knew how to push her buttons. I couldn't stand hearing it. I worried that if they ever got married it would end up in domestic violence and I'm talking both abusing the other! But, whenever I tried talking to her about it, she would get defensive and angry. So, finally I decided that she wasn't going to listen to me so I kept quiet, although, when they starting fighting at our house, I'd tell them to leave. Finally, she came home one day and said she'd broken up with him because of the very reasons I had talked to her about. I never said - I told you so - I just breathed a sigh of relief.

Hopefully, your daughter will come to her senses on her own.

Hope this helps.

Thank you ladies, I know you are right. I returned the email and simply said that I wanted to be there for her measuring and to work out some of the details(of the dress). Period! It does help to think about it and to "talk" to someone before making a stupid mistake that I would end up being sorry for. Thank you for your kind thoughts and prayers. I will keep you updated.

craft, when is the meeting? Also, how ironic that you and your hubby mentor young marrieds at your church. Didn't I read that in another post? This must be so hard for all of you.

Not sure yet when we are going for the measurements. She is coming by tomorrow to get her birth certificate in order to get her passport - by the way they are going to Rome on their honeymoon!!! Now I ask you - are they cutting costs?????????
But we have to work out our schedules to see when we can get together for the dress. I am just going to keep my cool and make the best of it.
Yes Dotsie - I think this is why I see trouble on the horizon. I have learned many tools and I try to use them with my children as well as my hubby. We have helped many a couple to see where their differences are and why they carry them to their marriages. The children have no clue and unfortunately have to make their own mistakes. It saddens me that I cannot help them steer clear of the storms ahead, but I know I can't. Maybe someday they will be in our marriage seminars for themselves - who knows?

There's an expression in German which I'll translate: "Shoemaker sole your own shoes". Isn't it usually that way? My Dad was a doctor, and I almost died in front of him when my appendix burst. I sell real-estate, but my kids don't want to hear any tips from me when they buy their homes. And you run marriage seminars, but your daughter won't heed your advice. Egaads, that must make it all the harder for you.
Speaking of marriage seminars; if I were near you I'd sign up. Hubby and I once went to counselling; that held for about a week. Do you have any online info?

Yes Hannelore. Here is a link to the church website and the Marriage Matters seminars. There is not an abundant amount of info on the site, but look thru it, you might be able to locate some of the books we use. I know that our church services churches all around the world, maybe there is a connection. I will try to locate one.

http://www.willowcreek.org/mr.asp

A great book to read is Love is a Decision, by Gary Smalley. Actually anything you can read by this author is wonderful!! I went to one of his seminars and he is awesome! ANother great book is The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. But this may be under a different topic. Not sure. But if you would like any further info that I might be able to send, please email me.

and I sit here squinting while hubby is an optometrist! I need to pay him a visit and get another pair of glasses.

I've heard Gary Smalley on the radio before. He's buddies with Dobson, isn't he?

Cathy, somehow I overlooked your post. Thanks for the link. I'm going to order the book as well. Hubby and I are doing fine right now…but our marriage is full of ups and downs. So by the time the book arrives; I'll probably need it. LOL
Hannelore

Oh Cathy, what a shame for you. I think you are being very patient and it must be hugely difficult for you with your husband on one side and your daughter and the rest on the other and you stuck in the middle. My Sister in Law married a man 16 yrs her senior when she was only 18 years old. Her parents (my inlaws) were very opposed to the relationship. She has recently broken up after 23 yrs of marriage and three children. She once told me that she would have left him years earlier but she felt so embarrassed about the hurt she caused her parents that she felt she had to stay and make the distance. sHe is a proud person and I suppose she did not want to hear her parents say I told you so. I suppose I am saying that all the above wise words are correct. You need to state your case succinctly and once, but always be there to support and love your daughter no matter what. If we parents desert our kids who else will they turn to? I think you sound sensible and kind.
Oh and the other thing I was once told (too late for me) was to start your marriage out the way you wanted it to be. People will not change, never ever!! Please keep us posted and the best of luck and love.

I just found your saga this morning, Cathy, and read it from beginning to the current post. If only kids would take advantage of the wisdom of their elders! And I know from experience, because my parents were less than thrilled with my choice for a husband and expressed that (and I didn't listen!)...but stuck by me through the years. They were there to support me when everything fell apart, years later. And they never said, "We told you so!", which was a gift, in itself.

Soooo, I guess I'll just echo everyone else - the most important thing is that even though she may know you're not 100% pleased with her choice (understatement of the century!), you'll stand by her, through thick and thin.

I'm not sure if you mentioned the wedding date - maybe I overlooked it somehow. I wish you and your daughter the best...I hope things change for the better.

Deb, wow! Talk about sucking it up. Boy, she sucked it up for years. I hope she's happy now. Maybe she wanted to wait until her kids were grown too.

In response to Deb, I personally know what its like to have parents, or in my case, a parent who does not support you. Its a long story, but my marriage fell apart after 24 yrs. It was a long time coming....but when I told my Mom that I left him, her first words to me were - "You need to go back to him". We were separated for 3 months and I NEVER got a phone call from her to see if I was ok. IN fact, she supported my husband. It was a bad scene and to this day I have a hard time forgiving her. SOooooooo I have made a pact with myself that I will ALWAYS be there for my kids no matter what they choose in this life. It may not be what I want for them, but they have to make their choices and I will always be there with them.
Just one other thing you said that struck me. I DO believe that people CAN change. They just have to want to. As I said earlier, we were separated. We got help, and my hubby saw his ways and changed them. I had to change too. These were good changes and it saved this marriage. My hubby is a recovering alcoholic. He has not had a drink since 95. He is the picture of a man that can change if he wants to. Of course - it was not as easy as this post sounds. It was a long hard road for us both, but I praise God everyday that we worked at it. And still do work at it. All marriages are work. Some just have harder work than others.

Cathy, You are one of the success stories, not many are I'm afraid, because as was stated; the person, man or woman has to see the error of their ways 1st. and then want to change them and then DO IT!

Hey Ladies-

Here's an update on the wedding. I went today with my dtr for her to be measured and ordered the dress. Let me tell you this was NOT an inexpensive dress!!! UGH!! I just can't believe how expensive weddings are today.
Anyways - things went well with us. We talked about a few things for the wedding, got the dress ordered and we are communicating well.
My future SIL has not shown his face with our family since that dreaded night a couple months now. My sis is coming in from CA tomorrow and we are having a family gathering. I wonder if he will show. AND I wonder how hubby will act if he does. I KNOW hubby is very uncomfortable now. Life is so unsettled right now.
My dtr and I talked a little about a shower. I must be very old fashioned.....she wants to know who is doing it, wants control over when it is, because she has a busy schedule, told me that she and her bridesmaids will be here to put the favors together, etc, etc etc...I never heard of the bride being so involved in the shower. In my mind, she should be surprised. Should not have ANY control of it.
ALSO - she wants one big shower. NOW - remember the mother-in-law? I told dear dtr that I should NOT be throwing the shower - that it is not proper etiquette. But, if an aunt has it, there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many people on the grooms side, that we would have to have 2 showers. I sound like I am rambling.
Here is the scoup on the shower. My SisInLaw wants to have a shower. Would probably be our side only and small. Daughter does not want the family's split, so wants to have one big shower at a hall. I cannot tell my SIL that she has to have it a hall. I cannot tell people they need to spend money. Dtr tells me that his mom can get this wonderful deal on this hall - like $20/per person. I am thinking that is not all that great. Then I am thinking, why do we have to have ALL these people??? I really don't know what to do about this shower biz now. Any thoughts on what you would do? Is this clear as mud???

Thanks Ladies-

Cathy, I really feel so bad for you during this time that should be filled with happiness. As far as the shower goes, I think that etiquette is more or less thrown out of the window these days with this new generation of brides! Yes, I gave my daughter's shower, if only to help out the bridal party financially. They certainly participated with decorating, baking special cookies and their own gifts, etc. But for the most part, I was the hostess who rented the restaurant and paid for the per person price. If I recall correctly, it was probably about $25 per person. However, I will say that it was not a very large shower. We combined families - both sides and we had a total of 39 women. We DID NOT invite every woman that was to be invited to the wedding. Our family never does that. We simply invite those closest to the bride and groom. And yes, my daughter was surprised. Of course she knew she was going to have a shower on one of the weekends prior to her wedding so I am sure she had a clue. She says she was surprised, but who really knows? We had name tags on the each seat and made sure that everyone was seated next to people they knew and liked! It was lovely and I am very happy it was intimate and somewhat small. We could have had my home but thought it was too much work and we all wanted to sit and enjoy the party with everyone else invited. I live in a New York suburb, don't know if things are done differently in Illinois. I hope you can work this out and enjoy it as well.

Gosh, thanks for all the info Pam. I am thinking I should just bite the bullet and give in to having the shower in a hall and forget it. My hubby does not agree. He thinks I am giving in. Yes, I am giving in, but I don't want to fight about it, I just want it done and over with. Terrible to say, I know this should be a happy and fun time. But when the groom to be treats you with such disrespect, you just don't want to do anything for him. I will do it for my dtr. She says she wants one big shower and the families to get along, but i think these 2 families will never get along because of the bad feelings. Its already too late. I will be glad when this wedding is over and I do not have to be with these people, except for the few times we will be at my dtr's house in the years ahead.

crafty, good for you to stay focused on your daughter. Just keep showing her love. That's all you can do. I know it sounds tough, but show him love too. Sometimes, people who act like him, need love the most!

Hey Cathy, have you thought about writing this up as a film script, I hope this does not sound uncaring, but if it werent for all the emotion and hurt, this could make a great comedy, you know the Steve Martin sort of thing! I often think that of my own marriage and kid saga(s)! If it werent so sad it would be a great comedy, and the movies aint got nothing on real life!!
Seriously, sometimes it has helped me to think, in 10 or 20 years, what will matter?? you know, in 10 years does it matter if you had a big or a small shower, what will make the difference in the long run. Also, what about your relationship with your husband, I hope this stress is not putting strain on your relationship with your hubby.
whatever happens you are wished all the best

HI Dotise
I think my sister in law needed self confidence. She has a manager job in a nut shop now, is earning her own way, the kids are self sufficient and so she felt OK to leave in herself.

Hello Cathy
Thanks for this, I have written down the Gary Smalley book and will try the library for it. I am interested in your view that people can change. It seems such a firm idea in our society that people cannot change. Did you always think that people could change or did you come to this opinion with experience?? My husband thinks that I have changed, but I was sick, and with treatment, have recovered. I wonder if this is the situation with your alcoholic husband, he was sick and is now recovered?? May I also ask you in what ways you had to change? And how did you arrive at that insight, because insight can be a difficult thing to have? Sorry to interupt the conversational thread.

Geeeeeez - I just wrote a long reply and somehow deleted it before I could add it. UGH!!!!! I will have to return another time, as it is late and I have work and school tomorrow - long days!!!

Thanks! I am thinkin bout you ladies!

crafty, sorry about that. We'll keep looking for ya!

Deb asked - Did you always think that people could change or did you come to this opinion with experience?? Unfortunately I had to experience it, because my parents taught me that people do not change. But in my case, my hubby had a choice. If he kept going the way he did, I was not going to be around much longer for him to abuse (not physically). I did not give him any ultimatum, I just told him I wanted a divorce. He decided on his own to quit drinking. He also decided to go back to church. And honestly it was our church that really affected him. He changed tremendously. And yes, I did too. Actually, I was the one that realized I needed to do something and because one person in the relationship changes, its like upsetting an apple cart. The others have to follow, or it just is not going to work. In my case, I was a doormat for many years of my life. I allowed him to do any thing he wanted with no consequences. I had no boundaries. I was given some powerful tools and with the grace of God, we learned together and have a better marriage today than ever. ANd we are now married 31 yrs. I truly believe that our family of origin has alot to do with how we are.
You also asked - I wonder if this is the situation with your alcoholic husband, he was sick and is now recovered?? Yes, alcoholism is a disease. And if you think about it - not all diseases can be cured. He is not cured - he is recovering. He will be recovering the rest of his life.
Does this help?

Here's an update on the wedding front.
I have been talking to my dtr regularly lately. This is a good thing. Her dress is being ordered on Monday, as she was fitted. It is beautiful. It was also quite expensive, but what ya gonna do???
I am looking into having the shower at a golf club that is close by and my son's girlfriend worked at. She is trying to get me a good deal. I had not planned on this big expense, as I do not believe I should be giving her this shower. Just my beliefs. So what I am doing is putting my other daughter's name on the invitations stating that she is giving it. If the mother-in-law wants to put her name on it- I don't care. I just don't want her running it. She had her turn with her daughter - now its my turn. Does that sound awful???
Dtr called me today to tell me she found a "deal" on the bridesmaids dresses. She shopped around at all the bridal shops for the best deal. I think she is making herself nuts trying to find deals on everything, and assumes everyone SHOULD deal!!!! But at least she settled on one place and now the dresses need to be ordered by 12-15.
So things are moving and she and I are talking often. The future SIL was here last w/e when we had out of town company. My hubby was NOT at ease that night and nothing much was said between the three of us. Hubby, SIL and I. I tried to explain why to my dtr when she mentioned it, but I do think she is going to stick up for him and his family no matter what. But - I am thinking things will be very different a few years down the road. We will see. Thanks for listening. Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.

Hello Cathy it is nearly one month since your post. How are things?

I'm wondering the same thing. Update please?

Hi Ladies -
I feel honored that you want an update!!! I have just been super busy these days and have had no time to post or even to read. Its finals week and I am soooooo far behind in Christmas things too.
Actually - funny you should ask. All the girls dresses need to be ordered by Friday. I took my younger dtr on Saturday for her measurements and to order her dress.
The bride(my other dtr) came over on Friday to see a few things I had picked up for her. While she was here, my niece called (one of her bridemaids)and I overheard the conversation. Seems my niece just found out she is pregnant. She is due in early August, which means she will be about 8 mo at the time of the wedding. My dtr did not know what to do - but she did tell her she still wants her in the wedding. So its going to cost my niece twice as much for the dress now because it needs extra length and a larger size and they will alter it. My niece wants to be a part of it all THEN.........my dtr decides that she feels bad that she did not ask my son's gf to stand up - so she asked her - and NOW WE HAVE 11 - YES ELEVEN bridesmaids. This is getting nutty - I can't even imagine what my house will be like the day of the wedding with all these girls here. And my house is average sized. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
It just gets crazier and crazier!!!
I did book a hall for the shower. I was not pleased that I have to put out all this additional money - but I decided to bite the bullet and just do it. I don't want to argue with her anymore. And yes - she did get her way about it, but I just had to do it. There was one slight problem - my dtr was worried because this hall does not like you to bring in food. And OF COURSE - HIS mother wants to bring cookies......I swear she brings them wherever she goes. I did talk to the hall and because they know me, they are giving me a great deal and they also told me it is up to me if I want cookies brought in. I say the heck with it - let the woman do it. I guess thats what makes her happy. BUT I will limit it.
Hubby is not doing well with the future SIL tho. We were at a family gathering this past w/e and he was VERY uncomfortable. He was avoiding SIL at all costs. I don't agree with this behavior. But there is not alot I can do. I feel it is between them now. Hubby does not want it all swept under the carpet and thinks that is what I am doing. I have not forgotten what was said. I just give it to the ONLY ONE who can help. I pray about it and give the reigns to HIM. Thats the best I can do. I am worried that if he cannot let this go, what will happen in the future. He will have to give a toast at the wedding and what will he have to say about someone who he is not happy with????????
Thanks for caring everyone, and sorry this is so long. I have to start looking for my dress soon!!!

I'm laughing about your cookie comment. I wonder if she'll bring cookies to the wedding!

I can't imagine eleven bridesmaids. That's humungous!

I have a felelling your hubby will pull through with the toast. You have lots of time for some healing to occur. Keep praying. You are doing what is best.

Go ahead - laugh!!!! It is kinda funny when ya think about it!!!
Yes - 11 bridesmaids is teetering on reeediculous!!!! I am thinking its gonna take an hour just for them to walk down the church aisle!!!! Do ya think people will stick around for the bride????? After I am spending all that $$ on the dress!!???

Crafty, 11 bridesmaids is a lot, that's fr sure. I don't understand though, why is your husband giving the toast? It's usually the best man.

Louisa

I've never seen a wedding with that many bridesmaids. Gads. Keep up the humor, you're gonna need it I think. This too shall pass.

Louisa -
Here, anyone can toast the bride and groom. I have seen where the best man, maid of honor and father of the bride do. ANd I have also seen some that were really ridiculous and it kept going on and on from there - whoever wanted to toast - did. It gets a bit nutty and long if you ask me and I sure hope they do not have that happen. Things are going to get busy now I think. I have alot to do. I need to find a dress for me, and I am starting a job 4 days a week on the 15th of Jan, so its going to get busy.
Happy New Year Everyone!!! Peace, Joy and Blessings to you all in 2007!!

Cathy, I have seen 9 bridesmaids at a good friends daughter's wedding and it was a whole tribe of long dresses going down the aisle! But, some girls just can't say "no" to someone they think would be offened. That is the least of your worries! At my daughter's wedding nearly 2 years ago, the best man and maid of honor made the toast. My husband did not...however, there was some talk that he should have! Too late now, we never saw a father do it before, except on that commercial on TV! Anyway, it is all over so fast and no one remembers what happened anyway. Try hard to enjoy and relish in every moment. And yes, keeping the peace is very important too. The future is what you want to count on with a relationship with your daughter for years to come. Good luck with the dress shopping!

I can't wait to see pictures. This is one huge wedding.

Help - Please!
I think I am having panic attacks over this wedding. I just don't know what to do anymore. I have tried being Christian and giving the in-laws the benefit of the doubt - only to get kicked once again.
Today, my dtr and I planned on going shopping for wedding things. I was looking forward to it. We have been getting along very well and the holidays really went well. Then - BAM!!! Dtr came this am and asked me whats going on and what I have against her future inlaws. I told her that I have nothing against them. She said his Mom felt I was leaving her out and she wanted to be included in the shower plans. SO, earlier tonight, she took me over to their house to talk about what I thought was plans for the shower. I tell you I felt like I was being interrugated. What is the hall like, what food will you have, what kind of cake, can I bring my own food (YES she asked this)... and on and on. Oh and she wants to bring her own food in. And was I sure all that was decided upon was included....what do I look like a turnip that just fell off the truck??? It was then explained to me that she wants her family and friends to have a good time and then they will give a good gift. She AGAIN told me that if I loved my dtr I will give her a nice day. I want to vomit.... I tried to explain to this woman that I only have so much $$ to spend and I cannot spend more than that. I tell you these people aquate love with how much you spend or give. She wants to see the hall and talk to the manager to make sure that what I say is what I am getting. I was so upset by the time I came home, my hubby went into a rage. Now I had him to deal with. I just want to go and jump off a bridge. He ended up yelling at me for allowing these people to walk all over me. He thinks they want to take over and hand me the bill in the end. I was trying not to think of them that way - but I think he is right....in his own way. I am thinking I am going to go and cancel this shower. At the risk of disappointment to my dtr, I don't think I can do this. Anyone out there got any great advise???? I could sure use some.

Does she cross streets alot?
Hmmmm, I'm pondering.

Cathy, I think this amounts to two choices.

Either comply, but ONLY if the inlaws pay 50% of the costs.
Or
You pay…but then you have 100% say.
Let the in laws decide. That way you are out of the clinch.

I know it's hard if your husband is so angry about this too. You are
sandwiched in the middle. Just lay these alternatives on the table,
and don't allow yourself to get pulled into any discussions.

Keep us posted!

Cathy, I am going to say the thing I am sure everyone is thinking, its the answer you know is right and we have given this advice from the beginning. DO WHAT YOU CAN DO, STAND FIRM, TO HELL WITH THE IN-LAWS they are never going to change and be cordial no matter what you do. No if's, and's or but's about it....Your daughter has apparently been hypnotized by her love of her fiancee, and/or her greed. She's lucky I'm not her mother. If that hateful MIL isn't happy with your shower, hall or food, tell her to have her own for her friends and that way your daughter can have two and get even more gifts. If you allow her and them to bully you now imagine what the future holds. I am so sorry for your troubles but the answer is still that we are treated the way we allow ourselves to be treated. Get tough and earn some respect! I rarely agree with a man BUT this time I will, your husband is absolutely correct and he's the one you need to agree with on this not those miserable muches....HUGS

When people in our family get married there are several showers. Each family has one, friends throw one, co-workers, whatever. My point is that each family has one...and the crazy thing is that we usually invite people from the new family too, meaning you would invite the Mom and her immediate family and maybe a dear friend, close sister, whatever. Then she in turn has a shower for her family and friends and includes you, etc.

Might you be able to suggest that you have two showers?

I think that's a good compromise.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. You know your limits both personally and financially. Stick to them.

Thanks ladies - I guess I am a very needy person and just need to know I am doing the right thing. I am so afraid of losing my daughter. But I guess thats the chance I will have to take. I know what I need to do. Please keep me in your prayers.

Oh Chatty, you sure did say what was exactly on my mind too!

How old is your daughter Craftyone? She sounds that she is as immature as the groom. She needs a backbone to stand up to her inlaws or she is in big trouble in the future.

I say separate showers too. Do not apologize to anyone about what you can or cannot do financially. This is your husbands and your decision alone...not even your daughter's. Don't ask for any money from the inlaws, just continue with what you planned and tell them that you would have no objection to them throwing another shower. And if you don't get invited...well, so what.

I am glad my Italian family is nothing like what you describe with your daughter's inlaws. Get ready for these same problems for years to come. After the wedding there will probably be a baby shower, christenings, birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays. Good Luck...you have your hands full. Be strong and listen to your husband. He is right.

You know what I think? Any child that elopes does his/her family a huge gigantic favour.

I never heard of a bride getting so many bridal showers! Do the same guests give presents at the wedding as well? In Germany the couple gets their presents at the wedding, and that's it. Seems like those marriage vows are put in the background, and the materialistic things take over!

I say, let the couple struggle and build their own life. Gee, didn't most of us do it that way? I mean how many silver serving bowls can a household stand!

Ha! Me mean old lady. Cathy, you can copy this post and show it to your daughter. Tell her how lucky she is…she could have someone like me as her mother!

When I got married, I had one shower from my side of the family, one from my husband's side, and one from my work friends. The key folks (my mom, groom's mom, maid of honor) were invited to all.

But then, I had a tiny wedding with just a maid of honor and a best man. And the reception was in the garage of my in-laws home. And we all peeled carrots and made carrot sticks, celery sticks, dip, chips, etc for the reception. Top class, huh?

But we're still together 30 years later....

Kathy

A shower, or reception does not a marriage make.

chick

And sometimes weddings don't a marriage make either.

Kids should remember that mates can come and go, but mothers and daughters are forever.

smile

Cathy, does upsetting the future In Laws = upsetting your daughter?

I vote for two showers too. Let the MIL throw the one she wants where it appears the motive is nice gifts. How selfish! Then, throw yours with friends who want to be there and aren't interested in anything other than seeing your daughter experience joy and friendship.

If your daughter isn't interested in doing this, I say, let her have the shower with the greedy, soon to be relatives. I know it would be sad for you but honestly if my daughter did this to me, she'd have a boot stuck up her @#$ in a size 7.

If your daughter loves you, she should be upset at how you're being treated and not set you up for these confrontations. I wouldn't meet with those people without my husband right beside me.

Kathy - Believe me, after all this craziness - I would much rather have it your way.
I am married 31 yrs. We had a beautiful wedding back then. It was not extravagant. And I had a wonderful time planing it with my mother. My in-laws did certain things and I invited my MIL along for certain things. It worked well. This whole thing just stinks. All the joy has been destroyed. I cannot wait til its over. And when it is over, ladies, I promise you pictures...but you have to promise not to laugh.
Pam - my dtr is going to be 26 in April and she has always been the more mature one of my children (no joke). She is just trying to please everyone and its not working. These 2 families cannot be blended. I think she is blinded by love and has been brainwashed. Our family is simple. We have a lot of love and not alot of money, but we love and cherish our family. That is why this hurts so darned much! I am going to continue with my plan for the shower. I am going to tell her that this is not going to work to keep it together. I will not please this woman anyways. I will invite the MIL and the sister, and any bridesmaid that wants to come from their side. If they don't come, then so be it. If they have one on their side and don't invite me, then so be it. I'd love to see what people would say when the mother of the bride is not there!!

The whole problem (within me) boils down to this - I am afraid of losing my dtr over this. I have alot of abandonment issues in my past, and they are just resurfacing with this mess. But I suppose that if this is the way dtr wants to live, then there is not much I can do at this point. Hubby says I will not lose her. But mother instinct says stick up for my child. Such confusion!!!
Diane - you sound just like my hubby.

Oh Cathy, I could cry for you right now. I mean it. I would be afraid of losing my daughter as well. Even though your hubby is probably right...in that you won't lose her, the fear is still there that you just might. That would be horrible and for me (and probably you too), I wonder how I could go on living. My girls are precious to me and I couldn't imagine not having them in my life. Interesting though, once that "fly in the ointment"-so to speak, enters the scene (your future SIL), things change and we have to accept change whether we like it or not. Good Luck Cathy, I will keep you in my prayers.

Cathy just be true to yourself, your heart and to your husband. He is after all a major part of all this too. You brought your children up with love, morals, respect and consideration. These things are hard to forget. Your daughter is acting foolish now because of the SIL to be, but hang tough, show her by example the correct way to behave and she will be always remember that and come around. Because mark my words, that hateful group she is marrying into is going to give her a rath of sh-t once the wedding hullabaloo settles down and she is the DIL who took sonny boy away from his controling mommy. Just watch! Been there, same exact situation except for the dishonoring my mother part.

cathy what a hard prediciment, either by the strenth of your own emotions and fears over lossing your Dtr in all this or by the presure of the young couple and the SiL mum all pushing and pulling in diffrent ways and directions. A hugh risk your gonna be bullied in one direction or another by anyone of them. Also if that wasen't enough then trying to be accountable to your husband so he dosent end up cross with you, it must be making your head spinn.

Weren't you originally gonna have two showers but your DTR wanted it an all in one affair? So you gave way to her and Also agreed to host it(instead of her aunt in law) to keep her happy? Maybee she had an inkling that this attitude from the MIL to be might of surfaced, who knows.
Theres a lot of toing and frowing to keep everyone happy and in the end their still not happy, you poor love you must be exosted....

Iv been reading on and off at this post waitng to see how it all turned out....iv been praying for a happy ending or comprimise for you all that their be some way for you to get throw it with a lot less stress and demands.

I sorry too read how you are feeling in your last post that you whish it over, theirs no joy left in it, and you can't at the minuet see the two families blending.

This situasion is nearly carbon copy of my sis situasion even down to nationalities ( do you think their a diffrence in 1st and 2nd generasion Itaions? My dad always said so)

In the long run the two families managed to smothed the rough edjes off each other their always was tension over christnings, birthdays etc but it got easier with time.

I hope with a bit more time rest and less stress you can generate a more poitive view over the getting on with the outlaws sorry inlaws lol.....you got a lotta love for your DTR and one things always gonna be, simpley your her mother and always will be now and in fifty years from now........

keep strong, keep god and i hope the tide for your cituasion and in your hart changies to a ligter one...by the sounds of you my dear lady it will surly turn

love celtic_flame

Thanks ladies. Chatty - I love the way you are able to say things as they really are!! I do know that someday my dtr will wake up and realize what she has gotten herself into. I will keep you all posted.

Cathy,
I have just rejoined this board after a long absence, and thought I would add my 2 cents if you don't mind. I feel so bad that you have to go through all this angst when you should be enjoying these months to the fullest. I am a wedding coordinator and event planner, and my advice would be two-fold:
1. Budget ...you mentioned that you gave your daughter a number that you were comfortable paying for the wedding. Stick to it, but let her decide how she wants to spend it. If she wants a huge shower or an expensive dress or a world famous photographer, so be it. It is her wedding, and she should be able to make those choices. However, if she "blows" it all on a shower, and doesn't have enough left for flowers or a fancy cake, or whatever, then she has made that choice. The budget should be completely flexible within its components, but the bottom line is the bottom line...no matter what. As an extra incentive, if there is any money left in the budget, you could offer that to your daughter as a cash payment when the wedding is over, to spend on her honeymoon, furniture, or anything else she would like. This forces her to make some big girl decisions as to what is really a priority to her for the wedding, and keeps you and your husband sane as well.

2. Wedding Planner. Most people think this is an extra expense, and when wedding costs are spiraling out of control, it is the last thing they want to add. However, I can assure you that if you can hire one, he or she will be well worth the cost. They can save you money in the long run by sometimes having access to vendors that offer discounts if they recommend them, they know which vendors offer more value for the money, they can go over contracts BEFORE you sign them to protect you from small print that could cost money. Most important, a good one is also used to many of the family dischord you have related and can be an unemotional third party that might just be able to offer compromises and cool things down when the different sides disagree. If nothing else, hiring a wedding planner for simply the Day of Event services can help immensely on the wedding day itself....especially with a wedding that needs the coordination of 11 bridesmaids!

Check out the Association of Bridal Consultants...www.bridalassn.com
for a consultant in your area. I guarantee there is someone with expertise in these matters that can help you.

Thanks for the advise Wizard, but unfortunately its a little late for that. Maybe when my #2 gets engaged it would be a good idea. The shower is already in its final stages.......don't get me started on that one!!! And the wedding is coming fast. I honestly cannot wait until its all over. Very sad. All the joy has been stolen from me. But its her life and if this is what she chooses, then so be it. I can only pray that she is happy.

Cathy, remind us of the shower and wedding date...

The shower is April 1st - yes April Fools Day!!! SHE chose the date!!! She drove me nutty this past week to get the invitations done and out. I made them and they are really cute. But she has turned into such a control freak, I want to say WHO ARE YOU AND WHERE IS MY DAUGHTER??? It makes me feel like she cannot trust anything I do. I am a designer for Pete's sake. Creativity is my life!!!
So - as it turns out - the MIL is getting the centerpieces and the favors....again the most creative parts of a shower. I guess she did not like my ideas.
The whole thing about this shower that bugs me is this: If I were on the other side of this, I would ask the brides Mom what I can do to help. I would not try to take over and push my wants on her. I just think that they are very ignorant people and want everything their way.
I got a call yesterday from the groom's sister, who is 25 yrs old. She wanted to know how the invites were coming along. I told her they were out and I already got some calls on it. She was flabergasted that she did not get hers yet. I said well maybe on Monday. THEN she proceeds to ask me what I was gonna get my daughter for the shower and what I think they should get her. I told her I cannot tell you what to do. (think they'd get the hint?)She goes on to say that she wanted to do the "Something old, something new" thing at the shower. I told her it was already taken care of that my dtr and I had already talked about it. Then she wanted to know what wedding things she needed. Well, I am making the pillow, the flower girl baskets and a few other things. She was very put out. Then it was on to the games. I suggested a few and then she said well your dtr is not gonna like that. I was so frustrated by this time, I said My dtr is not running this shower - I AM!!! UGH!!!! Please pray that I can keep my cool with these people, because I just want to tell them off!!! How dare they tell me what to do and how to do it!!!!!
Or am I totally wrong?????? The wedding is 6-30. I am going to throw a big party with all my friends when its over!!!!! Anyone want to come????????:-)

An after wedding party! That sound like fuuun! Will you be inviting the in-laws? Ha ha ha, -- just a little comic relief there.

Ok I am in need of some of your wise words. I want to run away and never look back. I went with my dtr today to get the 2 flower girl dresses. We stopped for coffee afterwards and stopped to talk. I am totally disgusted and don't really know what to do anymore. All I can think of at this point is to let go and let God. She pretty much told me that there is such dislike between the families and its pretty much my fault (her words). I don't know what else to say. No matter what I do or say - I am doomed.
She does not like anything that I have done for the shower. If I hadn't sent out the invites this week, I would call the whole thing off. I told her if she wants all these extras - she has to pay for them.
She told me she has changed since she moved out and I totally agreed. Unfortunately I don't like this person she has become.

Oh dear, crafty one, it sounds like your daughter stands under her husband's and in law's influence. Believe me dear, there is no winning this battle; no way at all.

My oldest son had a girlfriend whose influence on him was mesmerizing. The more I talked to him about it, the more he turned away from me and to her. It took a long time, but after six years I gave up. Now 10 years later, he's still with her, and they want to marry. She keeps postponing the marriage date (this is a part of her sick little brain). And I'm beginning to see puffy doubt clouds forming around my son's head. Maybe everything will take care of itself. But one way or another, I've learned; stay out of it; -- it's his life.

If you can, go on a vacation with your husband. Just get away from all wedding stress. Make a point of not talking about it anymore, and find your own lives again.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Sounds like you have become the scapegoat. Isn't it amazing that you're that powerful that you can cause so many problems? How ridiculous.

I think your idea of letting go and letting God is perfect. That is what I would do. I mean, is there another choice?

I rermember saying somewhere in all this upheavel that one day soon when all this hullabaloo wedding is over and done with and there is NO reason for you to be everyones door mat any longer, the wind is gonna shift and your darling pain in the butt daughter will become THE OTHER WOMAN (the one who stole the MIL's son away) and then she is going to get all of her own medicine BACK in her face in spades. Just sit back and wait...the tide will trun....!

Let go and let God. Let go and Let God. Let go and let God. Repeat one thousand times.

My heart goes out to you.

Here's an update Ladies! The shower was yesterday. I can breathe a sigh of relief....for a while at least..It turned out to be very nice - got alot of compliments on the decor and the food etc. There were so many gifts that it took all the personalization out of it. It was like an assembly line. After hours of primping packages so they were the right colors and had beautiful bows, my dtr never even saw them. The girls unwrapped and de-bowed the packages then sent them on down the line to the bride and groom....no broken ribbons! She got tons of doubles and some very nice things and some not so nice - in my opinion. They will have tons to return. Her future MIL did not say one word to me all day. She did not come over to our side of the room at all. I did go to their side to thank people for coming and to introduce my self to those I did not know. I felt that was only proper. Her dtr (grooms sister)is the bridesmaid from HE**!! She did things I asked her not to do. She insisted on really dumb games and clanging of the glasses. I tried to move things along to get them going with the gifts. I got a - don't worry Mom it will be fine. OK then.
I am glad it is over. I enjoyed the day because my friends and family were there. But I do not like who/what my dtr has become. I do not know her anymore. She is so involved in material things and everything is for show. This is NOT what I taught her. It is sad. And I hope that someday she will come back to us and I pray its not because her life is a mess. That is what I fear for her.
There was an issue that I will not go into detail over, but it involved grooms sister and my younger dtr who is the maid of honor. She made my dtr cry and was extrememly rude to her. I am wondering how the bride is going to handle this one. Will she allow this self-centered little witch (sorry - I am not being very nice here, just can't help it when it comes to my cubs!!)to come between her and her sister? hmmmm this ought to be interesting!
Oh then there was the the moment when the bride opened one of my packages - a penoir set. This is something that is a tradition in my family from mother to dtr. Well guess what - not 5 minutes later - she opens a penoir set from HIS mother. I was not happy that she did that. What do you all think of that? Is it improper for the grooms mother to give such a gift?

It doesn't seem proper to me. I'd never do it.

I'm breathing a sigh of relief with you. I think of you and your situation a lot. When is the wedding date so you can put that behind you as well?

I think the daughter you raised will be back someday. She'll realize a lot of things. Just like we all did.

Dianne, your comment could be right on. I'm sure there were things we did when we were getting married and oh, so young. Perhaps she will come around.

It is tradition in our family too for the mother to give the daughter the penior set. I've never heard of a future MIL doing the same. Has anyone else?

I'm glad you had fun and made the most of your family and freinds being there. That's all you can do...and pray that your daughter is really happy.

Really, Cathy does that truly matter in all this, who gives what? Its just another thing for you to worry over and doesn't mean a thing. In this world today I see much of the old traditions nonexistant anymore, and the new ones are a joke for the most part. BUT its a new world and the youngsters are not US! They do not behave like we did, they do not think or feel things like we did, and to me these changes are NOT for the better, but change they will and nothing we can say or do will make a darn bit of difference. Like I said before, just wait, the tides they will be turning after the wedding, mark my words.

I agree with you chatty that doesn't matter. Wedding is ..not a reflection how the marriage will succeed while the couple is alive.

It must be hard to worry about how your daughter will adjust with her MIL. HOpefully it will not affect her relationship with her hubby.

As for the custom about the pegnoir set giving etc. , I'm genuinely puzzled. I am completely unfamiliar with this custom. It sounds cultural...

EVery generation needs the freedom without parents to create/transform existing positive rituals for weddings, marriage. Has it occurred to anyone here, why young couples immigrated to North America....they can escape stifling "traditions", in-laws.. there is of course, a downside, for loving, flexible in-law parents, they can be of immense friendly support in person.

My son Nicholas and his fiancee Christon are getting married July 21.

Nicholas said he was going to walk down the aisle barefoot and my other son Matthew, his best man, said well if he's not wearing shoes I'm not either.

Christon said, you'll both wear shoes or I'll sing "I believe in miracle".

My husband and me just looked at each other and shook our heads.

Everything will all work out in the end. Just keep telling yourself, "It's just a wedding."

Laurel

chatty and orchid, you make some very good points. You are absolutely right that this generation needs to do what is best for them. Thanks for putting a different spin on this. It's NOT about us. They're the ones getting married.

We have a family wedding coming up and the couple getting married is having steamed crabs, corn on the cob, salad. etc. as their food at the reception. It's waht they want and I think it's awesome.

The guys are talking about wearing green chucks, you know, the Converse high tops? I think it would be fine. They are wearing tuxes with green cumberbuns (is that how you spell that word?) and the shoes would match. What a hoot. I'll let you know if they do it. This couple is precious. They've known one another for 14 years!

Laurel, your son wants to get married ... barefoot?
Did he say why? Is he getting married on a beach? They do that in Hawaii, right Diamond?

Gee, maybe he has an ingrown nail? Send him some good nail clippers. That may solve the problem.

My oldest son wants to marry next year. I'll believe it when it happens. They have postponed the wedding for the last four years. His fiance' has a weight problem and I've only seen her wear black. Do they have black wedding dresses? That would be practical. You could wear the same dress at the divorce court.

Naughty naughty mommy me. Just joking...honest Injun.

Ahhh...my future m-i-l actually bought my penior...something that was traditional for them as I recall...they are Italian...she did have a lot of ideas for how things should be...some of which we did...some of which she paid for...I had a set budget...and some of it...I did my way...

But I agree...with the others...I was very laid back when my daughters got married...and we were a very non-traditional family...so much less stress for me...and we all had a great time...

My oldest daughter eloped with the whole family...we went to Gatlinburg, TN to one of the Chapels...we planned the whole thing in 3 weeks...her fianace was moving for work and she wanted to go too...I made lasagne, froze it and took it for the reception...we were in a great chalet...a lot of fun...

My younger daughter got married in her college town...I was 6 hours away...his parents lived there...so her future m-i-l helped her with all the local stuff...flowers...hall... that kind of thing...She came to see me during her spring break and we bought her dress...my sisters catered it...so all I had to do was show up...I sort of liked it that way...LOL!

My Italian MIL gave me a peignoir at my shower, as did my own mother. No prob. My honeymoon lasted longer than two nights and I wore both.

At my daughter's wedding shower, I gave HER a peignoir. This time the wedding was in the bible belt south and the groom's family were Southerners, not Italians, and everyone went "Ohhhh!" as if I'd given her 8 x 12 blow-ups of actual sex act photos or something. It wasn't even a sheer peignoir, but very pretty and romantic.

Ya can't win.

Honey, those Southerners probably hadn't seen anything that pretty before! I would have been tickled pink! See? We're not all backward!

dajavu, great point about the honeymoon lasting more than two nights.

Hannelore, How long have they been dating? My nephew that's getting married is now 30, and has been dating his fiance off and on since they were 16...and mostly on. I'm tickled for them.

Jane, your sisters catered the wedding and you did nothing. That's the way it should be.

Dotsie, they have been dating 15 years! My son is 31. I'd say they should take the plunge and tie the knot...but maybe they feel they don't know each other well enough. Ouch...I just crossed my eyes.

All I know is when they get married...I'm just gonna do n-o-t-h-i-n-g...and enjoy every minute of it.

I agree Dotsie...but they are glad that I don't have any more children!

No, my kids aren't getting married at the beach. Just little ol' Oklahoma. My boys are just characters. You'd have to meet them. Anything for a laugh or reaction. I'm sure they'll wear shoes.

Laurel

Hah! I love them all ready.