I will have to admit I know nothing about this, being married 36 yrs and not dating since I was 17, what do I know???

I have had 2 girl friends that completely changed, friendship wise and personality wise once they started dating. They had both been divorced.

OK, here is where I get confused, I would think at the age of 54-56 we would be a little more mature than when we were 16. My latest experience is being with a friend on a vacation when at the last minute, the boyfriend is joining us for our "girls vacation". Luckily my sis-in-law was with me, so I wasn't left all alone.

I was surprised to see her running after him like a little puppy dog, ignoring that fact that they left me and my sil standing there. I was not about to do just what he wanted to do, I wasn't on a leash.

So to cut it short, I was surprised at how quickly people can turn into drooling, immature kids, not caring about others, giggling and acting like no one else was there.

So am I old or what?? This prob doesnt at all explain it, I understand that she will not be around much with me, which is ok. It just bothers me to see her completely drop what was her life and change it into his life in less than 4 months.

Maybe I should have put this under Whine....

Some people (those girlfriends) have no self-respect and no self-esteem. They still buy into the old canard that they're worth nothing without a man. This woman defined herself by her marriage before, and now defines herself according to every male that has even a minute potential of being a future husband.

Too bad, really, that life has taught her so little.

I agree with Meredith. It sounds as if her live before the man was missing something or so she thought/thinks, he comes along and viola! She is alive again. Hm...that's sad to me. The fear of being alone for some controls their emotions and actions. If they gave themselves half a chance, they would find out that you cannot depend on others to make you happy. It's from within.

While I wish her the very best, she will find that he doesn't hold the answers and cannot fill up the well...He will only draw from it.

JJ

It is so easy for us to criticize this woman from the safety of a marriage. But I wonder how many of us would confront our husbands to tell him to leave a girl thing if it might mean the end of the relationship. That's the position in which your friend finds herself. She no longer has the security of a legally binding marriage. All a single man or woman has to do is walk away.

Though some women who get divorced at this disgusting age seem to become total idiots, usually it is just a stage. Your friend may be acting like a teenager simply because she has in some ways returned to that status in life.

We are created to flourish in pairs. But that doesn't mean we can't be happy as indiviudals. I was a very happy single person, which does not mean I did not want or need a mate. It meant that I didn't want just any mate and I did not focus on finding one. And most important, it did not mean that I was was less than a whole.

If you love her as a friend, you may have to accept her for what she is, like us all a changing organism for whom girlfriends are not first priority at this moment. She will get past this stage.
smile

[ January 03, 2005, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Hopefully your fried has managed to find one good man in the 1000 jerks running around, age not withstanding. If you love her stay close because sooner or later she'll wake up from this dream state shes entered and reality will slap her right in the face and she'll need a friend. I never knew there was an age limit on immature.

Being a 55 single woman, i can relate to the crazies that sometimes happen when you find a man interested in you. Sometimes just the fact that SOMEONE shows an interest at our age is enough to turn you into an idiot. Case in point, I believe a man flirted with me at the bank - I had to run home and call a friend - all giddy. Then stopped to think, oh my gosh, I'm 16 again!! But I do hope at this age, that if we do find a special someone, that we remember that that "love" can be fleeting and our real friends have been around for a long time...

elsie, what a boon to be flirted with! I bet you felt good all under. Where did that saying originate?

Flirting is such a healthy habit. Everyone loves it (men too). And it's not fattening. We oughtta' all do more of it.
smile

I've debated about posting this story, but decided to go ahead so here goes. Last night around 10:30 (after taking my daughter's boyfriend home) she and I stopped at CVS. Where else?

While I was picking out toilet paper(of all things) this very attractive, clean cut African- American man approached me and simply said,"I wanted to pay you a compliment. You're beautiful".

I smiled and said,"Awww, thank you". With that, he disappeared.

I was flattered and wished I had a chance to tell him what a kind thing he had done.

Of course I kept thinking about it and came to the conclusion we should all do this more often. I hand out compliments left and right, but I've never told a total stranger of the opposite sex they were handsome. I talk to everyone while I'm out. I tell people they have beautiful children, I compliment women on their clothes, hair, jewelry, etc., but I've never been so blatant and told a man he was handsome. He wasn't trying to pick me up. He wasn't flirting. He just said something kind and left. Isn't that nice?

When I got home I looked in the mirror and my hair was fat from the weather, my makeup was worn, and I didn't have a stitch of lipstick left. Hmmm, he thought I was beautiful. Isn't that nice.

I posted it here because we were talking about flirting and thought it tied in. I also wanted us to consider the power of our words. We can use them to build one another up, or put one another down. Here's to boomer women building others up!

I think you're all beautiful!

Dotsie,
That's a wonderful story. It proves the power of flirtation.
And you are beautiful. Feel it and revel in it.
smile

And did you ever think that he was not only complimenting the beautiful outside Dotsie, but may have been able to see the inner you as well?

I don't get it...I went to CVS last night, stood there for an hour sorting thru the toliet paper and not once did anyone compliment me...

As a matter of fact, I've been banned from the store. Something about squeezing the Charmin?

JJ

Of course no one flirted with you JJ.
You were probably sorting the TP with the part of you it is to be used upon!
NOT your best side.

smile

[ January 09, 2005, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Bad bad girl Smile. Poor JJ, not picked up in the toilet paper aisle and then put down by you. If I could spell it, I'd shake my finger and go nit, nit, nit.....but I can't spell that sound. Maybe I am cynical but when or if a man came up to me and said that, I would be leary, and make sure there was someone with me when I stepped outside that store. Guess I've read and written too many mysteries. Dotsie is beautiful and plenty of people know and say it. Beware of men spreading manur e....they scare me.

Oh JJ, nobody can make me laugh like you. You're so amazing.

You know what? When a man flirts with me I get scared. Really nervous. I've had old geezers hit on me in the grocery store and that's because they've heard it's a good place to pick up women. Ask me cooking questions for Pete's sake! I'm so rude to them. "How should I know? Does it say Betty Crocker on my back?" I can't stand it! I'm wearing my wedding ring and not looking around. Good grief Louise!

I have a friend who is 48, built like something out of hollywood, sweet, successful, blonde...if we go out to dinner I can't even carry on a conversation with her because the men start flocking to us (her!). It's just impossible. But she's afraid of being alone in her middle age and dates some of the biggest losers. So, what does she do? Takes me to places with her so I can sniff out the guys and tell her whether they're losers or not. I'm like her Pitt Bull! I just wish she could believe in herself enough to hold out for the right guy.

I've had friends, middle age, divorced who completely forget about me if a man comes into the picture and you know what? The men notice this too and see a sheer act of desperation on the part of these women. When they are always available and never turn them down, these men know exactly how desperate the women are and dump them.

Let's see....she's built like something out of Hollywood, men flock to her, she's modest...oh yeah, I know my heart bleeds for her. She's probably rich too, am I right?

Well, that ain't nothing. I've been told I look like something out of Hollywood too.

Who IS Godzilla? Must be one of those foreign actresses...right?

JJ

Jawjaw, you must be confused. Godzilla is definitely not a redhead. Also, I don't think you're that tall.

Cracking up because for years my formal living room sported a blow-up 5' tall Godzilla.

Hello all. I'm new to the board, and very glad I found this wonderful place to share. This is my first post.

I can relate to this topic. I have a girlfriend (late 30's) who just remarried. We were very close before the wedding and now she doesn't even have time for a 10 minute phone conversation because it will take time away from him (he's a nice guy, no complaints on that end).

He's just taken a job where he has to travel some. Now she wants to get together because she'll be "lonely" while he's gone. Due to short notice, the only free time I have is the evening that he will arrive back home. She wants me to drive an hour to her town, to meet for a quick "meet and greet cup of coffee" so she can be there when he gets home.

I do not understand (nor admire) neediness. And she is one of the last people in the world I would have expected to behave like this. The happiness I do understand, she deserves it. I just think there is danger in putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak, and not maintaining friendships.

Just my two cents worth.

Whirlwind

whirlwind, welcome! Glad you jumped right in and started sharing.

Your post reminds me of dealing with teenagers. I have three and this is something we talk about at our house.

Sounds like your friend is smitten which is a good and fun thing.

Are you close enough that you might say something to her?

[ January 18, 2005, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Dotsie ]

Whirlwind, I HAD a girlfriend like that. If I was dating a guy she thought nothing of calling while I was with him but the minute she started dating, she was too busy to talk to me. If I was lucky enough to meet the guy (she always kept them away from me, which I thought was an insult) she would hover around and over him like he might fly away. And, she always ended up getting dumped. Men (or women) don't like that. She's also the one to declare the loudest that she doesn't need a man to complete her. You know, that was 14 years ago and she's still alone. Sad but true.

Meridith.
While I dont' agree with most of what you have said I do agree with one thing. It's an old cliche that I firstheardyearsago when women were finally gettting equal wagesadn promotions.. "A man is considered a failureif he cant get a job. A woman is considereda failure if she cant get a man.

Summer Breeze.
I'm going to get into one of my more notorious habits and gender reverse this post. See if you would take the same stance if the genders were reversed.
==========================
I will have to admit I know nothing about this, being married 36 yrs and not dating since I was 17, what do I know???

I have had buddies that completely changed, friendship wise and personality wise once they started dating. They had both been divorced.

OK, here is where I get confused, I would think at the age of 54-56 we would be a little more mature than when we were 16. My latest experience is being with a friend on a vacation when at the last minute, the girlfriend is joining us for our "guys vacation". Luckily my brother-in-law was with me, so I wasn't left all alone.

I was surprised to see him running after her like a little puppy dog, ignoring that fact that they left me and my bro standing there. I was not about to do just what she wanted to do, I wasn't on a leash.

So to cut it short, I was surprised at how quickly people can turn into drooling, immature kids, not caring about others, giggling and acting like no one else was there.

So am I old or what?? This prob doesnt at all explain it, I understand that he will not be around much with me, which is ok. It just bothers me to see him completely drop what was his life and change it into her life in less than 4 months.
====================
There you have it summer. If the new girlfriend is you, if you end up intrudinginto this guys holiday, would you still expect him to pay as much attention to his buddies as to you?

While I was picking out toilet paper(of all things) this very attractive, clean cut African- American man approached me and simply said,"I wanted to pay you a compliment. You're beautiful".
================================
ROTFLMAO
The old supermarket strikes again. It is and has been for years the most successful pick up joint.
Paticularily for us guys. We don't have to run a gauntlent of hostile bouncers to get past the front door.
The girls arent a bunch of weeping drunks howing about what creeps the men are.
And they don't start screaming about harrassment if we pay them compliments.

I think the best thing a woman of my age..54...can do for herself is to take care of herself, physically, mentally and spiritually. If a man comes along who appreciates that, younger or older, then he is worth investigating. The ones my age who are pursuing 20 or 30 somethings would not interest me either!!!
ARI

I always have men hitting on me in the grocery store. What's up with that? Somebody told them it was the place to meet single women? I'm wearing my wedding band, minding my own business and here they come...asking me a question about cooking or something really stupid. I mean, does it say, Chef or Store Manager on my back? My daughter is always embarrassed because I'm rude. I know exactly what they're doing. They must be 80 years old too. Good grief Louise.

P.S.

I just had a thought. I must look 80 years old too or they wouldn't be bothering me.

Sparticus, I also have friends who completely change when a new date or flavor of the month comes on the scene. I'm suddenly forgotten.

Advice for women who are single and looking (BTW I personally find nothing wrong with that as long as no one sells their soul).

Men should go to the grocery store to meet women cause that's where women hang out. But women should go to the home improvement store to meet men cause that's where they hang out.
When I was single and even now if I go alone, I always meet men at Lowes and Home Depot. I never actually dated any of them, but they were nice people and I got a lot of nice compliments, free advice, and help with various carpentry projects.
I always have to hang out at love Lowes and Home Depot when I'm doing a play. I'm usually there late at night wandering around looking for some weird thing and men come out of the woodwork to help. I think they love bumfuzzled women especially if we are doing something totally weird like building trees or trying to fly a child or adult over a moat or building a puppet theater.

Another way I met men was using my convertible as a pickup. When doing a play, I put the top down and haul lumber, equipment, and sets to and from the theater. And I have to do it rain, shine, or snow. Men in pickups have followed me to the lumber yard or theater and helped me unload or just stopped to talk. A couple of times I have even recruited them as set builders.

Just my advice.
smile

I smell a rat here and when has Sparticuss been a womans name? Wake up and smell the roses ladies me thinks we've been had once again....Maybe Interloper would be a better name.

Hi, Chatty,
I have read posts where I thought Sparticuss said she/he was a woman speaking from a man's point of view, but this morning I read a post in which he says he is in fact a man, and his location is listed as Australia.
Perhaps it would be good to clarify whether it is okay for men to post on this forum. I found his(?) insights thought-provoking.
ARI

I haven't found his comments to be thought provoking. They sound to be merely defensive to me. I can't for the life of me figure out why a man would want to hang out in a forum full of women. Perhaps as a lurker, with the intent of learning something about 'how women tick'. But to reply defensively our posts and imply by this same defensiveness that our thoughts, impressions, and feelings are invalid - well, that just seems like more of the same ol' same ol' that gave us our opinions in the first place. Don't believe it? Go back and re-examine the posts. Look how far back in forum history those threads were started. Instead of participating in what we have been discussing NOW, Sparticuss chose to reintroduce threads in which he had a stated agenda, i.e. defending the male perspective of what we had to say about certain subjects. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but ladies, really - part of the benefit of this forum is to have our FEMALE opinions validated. I, for one, have no interest in seeing the man's point of view in our discussions because we, as Boomers, have worked hard to determine who we are by our own reckoning. We've all spent more than enough time trying to live up to someone else's idea of whom we SHOULD be; most often those ideas of whom we should be were given to us by men. Spart, if you are a woman, I'm sorry for your troubles. If you are a man, consider yourself ignored. Dotsie, please forgive me for being contentious - this forum is to me like hallowed ground - and I aplogize for any desecration I may have caused with my post. Feel free to hit the big DELETE key.

I've responded to a couple of his posts. Maybe if he is truly a he, he'll learn something about women. He'll probably get bored after a while.

Ladies, this is the first post that I have been able to figure out that sparticuss is indeed a man. I've carefully read other posts and some of them insinuate that he's a woman. This is a first. I will take care of this today.

Only an ignorant man would write this about women "finally gettting equal wagesadn promotions.." Huh! In what world? Women are still earning only 76cents to the dollar that a man earns in the same occupation with the same education in the same region! Women are NOT finally getting equal wages and promotions! Women have to contend with taking time out, unsupported by the government, for child rearing and child care. They are punished for being moms in the workplace.

Come on Lynn, tell us how you REALLY feel.

You are right, Unique...it is not "thought-provoking," and I was a bit confused.
Another question which comes to mid is why a man would want to join a women's site like this and Dianne has pointed out that he must have issues with which he is dealing.
Personally, I do not buy into the male suicide rates as a result of divorce. Women are much more likely to have difficulty after divorce, given the aspects of support, childcare, and employment.
ARI

Well ladies I was again correct in spotting this jerk as a man or maybe the sad immitation of one. No man would want to be in an all womens forum unless he is just plain sneaky, can't relate to women in real life and in person or thinks hes being clever. This is the second one I has discovered and I am ever vigilant for my Boomer sisters and none will escape my detection unless hes really good but sooner or later if one slips through, I'll catch the creep so rest easy girls I am watching....My police training shows through!

How can someone get on here unregistered ? I want to know and that does sound like a man .

Strange !

Ari is correct: statistics show that a woman's mental and financial health declines post-divorce, while a man's increases! Generally, the woman has custody of the children, and now has to bear all the costs of child rearing including day care on the aforementioned lower paying jobs. Men can work overtime to earn more because they don't have to worry about child care. And it costs a woman in legal fees to go after dead beat dads who don't pay child support. My single divorced girlfriends with children go through hell trying to make ends meet while the guys get new cars. And if there is a man on this site, let him deal with his issues elsewhere. LLL

Ok. What's going on here? I'm gone for a week and come back to find a wannabe Kirk Douglas in the group? I just read the posts, Chatty and I agree. While it's great writing exercise for fiction to write from a different prospective, I don't think this forum is the place for it. This is a site for women. I don't really have anything against a man being in here, (why would one want to be?) but I prefer he be a man and say so, not pretend to be a woman.

Nancy, I think I know how one can get on here unregistered. I will answer that privately.
Louisa

Have you ladies heard of 'trolls' and 'flaming'? I've never seen it in this forum, but apparently it is quite common in other forums. I don't hang out in places like that, but I 'hear' things. Inciting mayhem in public forums is like crying, 'Fire' in a theatre. Maybe it's a form of mental illness - I, for one don't have time. I come here to relax with my 'sistahs'. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's in the Outback with a satellite connection, and therefore has no social skills. Who knows?

Wow, I've been busy lately and not reading as much as I used to, good detective work Chatty!

Ladies, I deleted him from the forums. Please see forum announcements.

Dotsie I know you can't be everywhere and hope you don't mind me helping, I think I'm helping. I definitely have a sixth sense about deceit from my law enforcement days and then theres the phone sex, men talk and think different from women and after the thousands I've talked to I can spot one a mile away usually. Glad he's gone!!!

OK, I'm going to go back to an earlier comment in this thread. "How many of us would confront our husbands to tell him to leave a girl thing if it might mean the end of the relationship."

She wasn't married to the guy. And even if she was, there is nothing wrong with spending time with same sex friends.

I'd bet money that if the man in question had a guy's getaway planned, he would not in his wildest dreams consider taking his girlfriend along.

And if he would leave a relationship over not being included in such an outing, good riddance. Better to find out early on that he's a selfish person.

Whirlwind

Depends what's going on with the friend that's a girl. Is the guy being honest?

I'm with Dotsie on this one. I have male friends and then, I have male friends. There are some that I know are just waiting for me to tell them I'd like it to be more than friendship. You can always tell. I have many that would dump me if I even suggested such a thing. A man knows the same thing.

Maybe I missed something here. What I meant was, there was nothing wrong with the woman going on a "girls trip" to spend time with her women friends.

And I'll bet that if the guy had plans to spend time with his male friends (for example, to go see an out of town football game, or on a golf trip), it would be doubtful that he would agree to take her along if she was going to be the only female.

Dynamics are different when outings are all female, all male, or mixed.

It sounded like the writer was disappointed that the man came along because the woman who brought him went off the deep end trying to please him and the whole purpose of the trip (girl time) was destroyed.

My ex brother in law gave just such an example a couple of weeks ago. He and one of his younger brothers went to Florida on a "guys fishing trip." Now, they do this every spring, it is a long-standing tradition in the family for the brothers . They stay in a camper in a campground and fish every day. Two days into the five day into the trip, the younger brother's wife showed up, with the two small children in tow. Said she was bored and missed him. There was no more fishing that trip because the wife had to get a hotel room (camper too small for everyone). Then the main focus of the trip changed from fishing to keeping the kids entertained, going to the beach, going to the putt putt golf course, going out to eat, etc.

I for one love the time I spend with my girlfriends. Just to talk about the latest books we're reading, what "chick flicks" we've seen, work concerns, etc.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Whirlwind

Hi Ladies

I'm no expert on dating...haven't dated in about 16 years. Too immersed in living a journey and finding my purpose...but I thought about it...one day when the future brought to me a healthy body...what it would be like...

I came to the conclusion that I have fallen in love with life...having had to face the fear of death for over a decade. I have found that the greatest adventure is the journey...within....its mind blowing...heart wrenching beauty moves with the wind and the light...forever bringing one forward into new knowledge, new insights and the final understanding of the heart!

In this place the beauty of life sees all....and in the love and only in the love do we find ourselves and the heart of a man and his light and soul...and until the man becomes his own light, his own beauty....the idea of dating never crossed my mind.

For the journey brings the truth, the beauty and the man....and the knowledge of his soul, his light and the love.

For in that truth all is revealed...and the joy of life bursts forth in the knowing and the living of the depths of the heart that remembers....real love!

With love
Leigha

Whirlwind. Gotcha. Don't mind me. Now I get it. I totally agree. What a bummer for the change in focus in their annual trip. Didn't the wife understand that would happen when she arrived. What was she thinking? Did everyone leave on good terms?

The wife was probably miffed at him for going on the trip in the first place, so that was her way of "getting even." Even though she spends LOTS of "girl time" with her sister.

The guys were disappointed, but of course they made the best of it. That's what families are supposed to do, make lemonade when things go sour.

The family joke now is next year, they aren't going to tell any of the wives where they are going. They'll keep their cellphones on, but the destination is a secret.

LOL!

Whirlwind

Dear Whirlwind

I have found that with regard to any kind of relationship, as relationships are about communicating and spending time with one another, that we all have to take a breather sometimes...one cannot always spend one's time relying on a partner to fulfill oneself or relieve boredom.

Within relationships...too much is put upon the relationship itself...and not on one's own responsibility for growth and joy...to be able to come to terms with oneself and what makes oneself happy. Only then can freedom exist within a relationship if both people are moving toward more fully understanding themselves. Without that you've got the ball and chain aspect where women are constantly hanging onto their man and don't give him any space to breathe...and where men are constantly demanding the presence of their wife or to some extent determining how she spends her free time.

Relationships evolve only through one's own growth in consciousness. TRUST is the big factor...when you are reigned in from following your own heart and joy it is because of a lack of trust....or simply one has not grown within.

Each and every one of us has access to many different levels of consciousness but we're not taught this...we're taught a surface way of being...we're shown by friends and parents what marriage is...from a surface representation...systems in business, in education and within politics keep ourselves from discovering ourselves because we're always taught to be better, to be achievers, to think only about the physical world and where we're going and how we can benefit the system.

What has always been missing is the heart....instead relationships are built on fear and control...fear of loss and thus the male and the female trying to control each other, by occupying the other person's time and space, by fostering weakness so that one spouse will have to take care of the other person's emotional needs etc. Why...because we have always been taught that we have to achieve, an action that takes place outside of us, always striving to be the best...to be what we want...to get what we want...and we apply that very way of thinking upon relationships...IE WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET WHAT I WANT! What do I have to say to him to get my own way! What do I have to do to make her see it my way. IE Wives are supposed to stay at home and take care of the home and husband. It doesn't work! Control through fear, loss or manipulation does not work!


The truth in regard to people's actions is really only based upon their inner growth and their inner strength. It is the inner growth that provides sustenance and happiness. People have substituted inner growth for a relationship! In some ways it is because it is only through a relationship that they can see what needs to be seen within...their partner mirroring the loss within them...the fear within them...or the partner creating scenarios that are tough to deal with but boy do you grow! Why? In order to come into inner peace...the ultimate journey!

Relationships in many cases are a side journey to wake us up to the beauty within...to help us to grow inward!

We have been taught that relationships are based on a give and take scenario...whatever happened to give and give. Fear happened...loss happened...relationships are really not relationships ie loving one another;relationships are really mirrors to our own fears, our loss and in moments our own joy!

You have to feed the soul...and not depend on another's soul to feed you....that's what's missing in many relationships!

You're right whirlwind...always follow your joy and if someone tries to stop you they are operating from a consciousness of loss and that can tell you a great deal about the person who operates from loss...and where things will go from there.

With love
Leigha

The games people play never cease to amaze me..