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#217178 - 05/13/12 02:45 PM Does it matter...?
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 9954
Loc: New York State
I've been wondering if any of you think it's relevant, what
Presidential candidates have done in High School or when younger? Doesn't almost every human being do dumb things in their youth? Should that disqualify a person for an important post 40 or 50 years down the road? What say you???
_________________________
Throw me to the wolves and I'll come back
leading the pack.
Grace O'Malley

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#217180 - 05/13/12 11:34 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: jabber]
Anne Holmes Administrator Offline
Boomer in Chief

Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 3160
Loc: Illinois
Hi Jabber,

Depending on what the "dumb things" are, I think it does matter. I agree that many of us are guilty of doing dumb things when we were younger. And Lord knows, many of these dumb things follow us our entire lives.

Personally, I will always thank the Lord that He protected me in some of the dumb things I did - or thought about doing. There was the time I was locked out of the house, so I climbed up the back porch of my parents' house and onto the roof deck off their bedroom so as to let myself into a door I knew wouldn't be locked. That, in retrospect, was a dumb thing.

And then there was the dumb thing I almost did: This involved a blind curve on a road in the little community I lived in for most of my youth. My best friend Jenny told me her sister Marty (a year older than us)had told her that she (Marty) and her friends used to try to speed around that corner at 70 mph, attempting to skid around the corner on just two wheels.

I thought that sounded like good fun, and I resolved to try it - while driving my mother's 4-door Ford LTD. I got up the speed and approached the curve. But at the last moment, my good sense and reason got the better of me. I braked hard and took the curve more sedately, and under control.

And I never tried it again: There was a mom and a grandma walking down the road while pushing a stroller. Had I come around the curve all out of control, I am not sure that I could have avoided hitting them.

Even considering doing this was a dumb thing. And thankfully, because I got myself and the car under control, no one got hurt. But had I persisted in my quest of pursuing a dumb idea, people could have been hurt -- even killed in a worst case scenario -- and I would have had to own up to my actions and live with the results for the rest of my life.

So I guess these little known facts of my youth are what allow me to say that when, in our youth, we do dumb things that we KNOW will involve hurting other people, as Romney has admitted to doing, I am afraid I DO hold it against him. HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

I feel that his self-control was lacking and that his resultant bullying was more than a name-calling prank, which many people have done, and for which I could probably forgive him.

No, the concept of Romney holding a fellow classmate down and forcibly cutting his hair - whether or not he knew the guy was gay -- was extremely aggressive.

I don't see that as a "prank," it's an assault. Something which, had he been adult, might be grounds for arrest.

So while I won't say that this activity ALONE ought to make him ineligible for the presidency, I will say that it doesn't sound the the actions of a leader to me.

But, I've never attended a private boarding school. If someone were to tell me this sort of activity happens often there, I'll be glad to re-evaluate my opinion in light of new facts. But as my knowledge currently stands, I have to say it made me think a lot less of the candidate.
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#217181 - 05/14/12 09:46 AM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: Anne Holmes]
Mountain Ash Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 3027
Any action that involves bullying an "outsider" is a feeble attempt to be in the "in" crowd...so in my opinion shows lack of integrity and self worth.

I dont know much about the background about this man... no doubt boarding schools are a minefield for grouping...children do things to survive...but unless a great character change has happened..or some personal awakening has happened...a man who holds someone down....he renders the victim powerless...

early in life good guidance should teach respect...from respecting ourselves we then respect others.

Politics is about acting for the greater good....not making victims of any group...whether through gender age race or disability.

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#217182 - 05/14/12 01:35 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: Mountain Ash]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 9954
Loc: New York State
Anne, MA,
Both of you have made excellent points. And I know what we do in our youth can have a huge impact on our adulthood. That issue about the dog, really annoys me. U don't tie a dog to the top of a car for 12 hours, as Romney did. And you don't eat dog as
Obama said he did. Glad you had enough sense to slow down around that curve, Anne. Your life and those of others could've been ruined. Mitt Romney sounds like a spoiled brat; we'll see what happens.
_________________________
Throw me to the wolves and I'll come back
leading the pack.
Grace O'Malley

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#217188 - 05/14/12 07:01 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: jabber]
Anne Holmes Administrator Offline
Boomer in Chief

Registered: 03/12/10
Posts: 3160
Loc: Illinois
Hi Jabber,

I wanted to comment on your discussion of dogs as related to Obama and Romney. I agree that it is inhumane to crate a dog on the top of a car and drive off. And I also agree that here in the mainland US, we do not eat dogs.

But when I heard that President Obama said that he had eaten dog once, I recalled that both dogs and hogs were protein sources in the traditional Hawaiian diet.

Here's a reference to it that I found on a website called "Alternative Hawaii."

This site . and in a section on "Hawaii's Mixed Plate" I read the following:

Quote:

THEN
The Hawaiian word for health is ola. It also means life. Thus, the word health and life was one and same. Hawaiians obviously believed you could not have health without life, nor life without health. Ka poe kahiko (the old people of Hawaii) regarded the body, mind and spirit as one.

Each affected the condition of the other. If you abuse your body, you abuse your spirit and mind, and so on. Being healthy meant being physically, mentally and spiritually in lokahi or harmony. Source: Noted Hawaiian Scholar, Dr. George Kanahele, Pookela Hawaiian Culture Course.

Ancient Hawaiians were strong, sturdy and capable of bearing great fatigue. They were farmers, fishermen, hunters, and gatherers who enjoyed a diversity of foods.

For example, they planted and irrigated taro patches; cultivated crops such as yams, arrowroot, or breadfruit; hunted birds and pigs; gathered vines, ferns, herbs and medicinal plants from the forests; practiced both net and deep sea fishing; harvested shrimp, picked seaweed, and collected shellfish.

Their main sources of protein were fish, squid, limpet, crab and other seafood, chicken, and birds. The main leafy vegetables were taro tops (luau), and edible plants such as tree fern and fan palm. They ate bananas, coconuts, raspberries, strawberries, mountain apples and sugar cane. Seasonings came from kukui nut, seaweed, hoio fern and salt. They preserved food with salt and most foods were eaten fresh. They ate dogs and the alii (royalty) ate pig.


The part in BF italic is my doing, to highlight the reference to dogs.

I was fairly sure dogs were eaten by native Hawaiians, having read NABBW member Linda Ballou's wonderfully well-researched book, "Wai-nani: High Chiefess of Hawaii, Her Epic Journey," so therefore I wasn't offended by Obama's statement.

I just figured he probably ate dog while participating in some traditional Hawaiian event, given that he spent his early years there. And thus, I wasn't offended by his statement.
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#217190 - 05/14/12 10:58 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: Anne Holmes]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 9954
Loc: New York State
And I'm sure you are right, in everything you say! The idea goes
against me because of a deep love I have for dogs. I'm also aware of the deep devotion President Obama's supporters' have for the man. And I understand. That's why I try to go easy with all and any political assessments. Prayers and blessings...
_________________________
Throw me to the wolves and I'll come back
leading the pack.
Grace O'Malley

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#217199 - 05/15/12 08:34 AM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: jabber]
Mountain Ash Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 3027
I am not involved in US elections but the reference to eating dogs..Anne you covered this well.
My son traveled through Russia / Asia and has many tales to share.One is about a dog being slaughtered in China beside a river...It remains an act of barbaric cruelty to him.obviously for food...he did not eat dog but talks about the food others especially the native people ate in the street.Most people in Thailand eat away from home...pigs brains which are flat like a plate fried eaten as we eat hamburgers...insects deep fried and other mysterious foods.One girl he met had eaten the family cat...abhorant to him who comes from a home that adores the companionship of cats.

People eat what is culturally accepted...
Offal was never on my families menu yet others I knew ate this..I remember seeing pigs feet on a plate in England...I was surprised and a bit put off..In Scotland the national dish haggis is a miss mash of offal all boiled in a sheep stomach...(I dont eat that.)this dish was devised to use up all the odd bits in a poor nations history..

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#217200 - 05/15/12 12:51 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: Mountain Ash]
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
I'm also not involved in US politics, but in regard to the dog thing, as abhorrent as it might seem to many of us in this part of the world, in other parts of the world people are starving to death and cannot afford the luxury of "pets" like we can here. Most of us cannot imagine the poverty and hunger that exists for so many...whatever can possibly provide sustenance is seen as "manna from heaven" for an impoverished parent trying to feed a hungry child. We have to be careful not to dictate that our cultural norms (which to some must seem very wasteful) are the only "right" way to live, by doing so we quite literally would be sentencing people to death-by-starvation.

However, in the context of us here and now in this very rich society of ours, any blatant cruelty to animals or humans has to be addressed and questioned. There is unfortunately some truth to the premise that a leopard cannot change its spots...while I believe in mercy and that people CAN change, I would probably always be suspicious of anyone who had previously exhibited blatant sadistic behaviour, because just because someone CAN change doesn't unfortunately mean that they HAVE changed. Sadistic characteristics (specifically the thrill and pleasure that sadists get from inflicting pain on others) are IMO particularly difficult to change. They might evolve to the point where they can hide or disguise it better, but it's hard to believe that it's not still there, subtly leaking out from underneath seemingly innocent words and behaviours.


Edited by Eagle Heart (05/15/12 12:59 PM)
_________________________
When you don't like a thing, change it.
If you can't change it, change the way you think about it.

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#217201 - 05/15/12 01:29 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: Eagle Heart]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 9954
Loc: New York State
Interesting posts, ladies. I've only been to Italy and a brief stay in the Country of Holland; they were eating muscles there, and that didn't look all that appetizing to me, either. Down in the Bahamas they were eating conk and that was a turnoff. Don't want anybody to starve to death. Just saying I couldn't eat dog because of my upbringing: Dad wouldn't eat his own cows and never sent anything to the market. All his animals died natural deaths. Still don't think it's cool to tie a dog on top of a car for 12 hours, I don't care who it is and I actually like the man.
_________________________
Throw me to the wolves and I'll come back
leading the pack.
Grace O'Malley

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#217202 - 05/15/12 04:31 PM Re: Does it matter...? [Re: jabber]
Ellemm Offline


Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 601
This topic got me to thinking: I went to live outside the US when I was 6 years old, just as Obama did. I cannot imagine how anyone that age is supposed to decide that he or she has already figured out his or her upbringing. Typically, you wind up eating what is culturally normal where you live. People all over the world, including in the US, eat animals and parts of animals that are kinda gross to many.

Here's my problem: I can be disturbed at stories of candidates' behaviors when they were younger but wonder just how much emphasis to put on that same person 40 or 50 years later. Did they ever do it again? Do they exhibit an adult pattern of lying or cruelty or laziness or indifference? Because if they don't, maybe they have grown up.

You know, George Bush was an indifferent student in college, had a drinking problem until he was 40, and seemed to skate through life being bailed out by his family or wealthy friends. And yet, he sobered up, got more religious, and became governor of Texas. And good for him!

I wouldn't strap a dog onto a car, either, but I'm actually a little more concerned about whether these men are more beholden to special money interests or are itching for even more war. I don't have to love them; I have to decide whether they'll do a decent job trying to run the country. Sometimes those people are not folks I'd want to have coffee with.

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