I had a call from my younger son this morning to tell me his dad, my ex, died yesterday evening. While this was not unexpected - my ex had a couple of heart attacks and congestive heart failure - the news was a shock. I hadn't talked to my ex for many years; we divorced 17 years ago after being married for almost 25 years. I am wrestling with what I feel about this. On the one hand, I loved him once; on the other, his drug and alcohol abuse caused his death and the death of our marriage. I'm not sure what I feel at the moment. Anybody else had this happen?

You share a son with your ex. This in itself is something good.

Yonuh and others here:

With deep grief and sadness, I share now the bad news that a sister committed suicide. I just returned from flying out to her funeral.

She is the sister 1 yr. younger than I. I have posted a photo in the past here on this forum of her with her family. She leaves 2 adult children (daughter 25 and son, 23) and a loving husband.

She was in deep depression for last few months though she did not disclose it to all family members. She's had bouts ..and was on anti-depressants but refused psychiatric help. I feel so strongly now that had she been advised for psychotherapy, it might be have been a different outcome.

It is very difficult to also see my father grieve and also support his wife, my mother. Just before my sister's death, we found out that my father's prostate cancer is progressing abit more.

I have many thoughts of my sister and also of my parents, who are now more visibly smaller, greyer and weaker.

There are other things going for me personally, which I need to sort out over time.

For her children, they each gave impressive euologies about their mother, considering their grief over the tragic and sudden death of their mother and the stress.

The small solace I take is that I have loved and known my sister for long enough to know the best of her, her potential and what may have troubled her (though no one is completely sure), and also that her children are old enough to appreciate and articulate on their love and appreciation of their mother in a multi-faceted way.

Perhaps yonuh, your son and yourself find what his life did provide, as a starting point. Whereas the other weaknesses can be brought forward for context.

I did not mean to hijack this thread. It is about inner struggle with conflicting questions and feelings over significant family members in our lives.

Orchid, I'm so sorry for your loss. My heart feels your sorrow and grieves with you.

Yonuh, I don't see why you *shouldn't* feel conflicted. After all, the relationship you had with your ex-husband died a long time ago. I'm sure you didn't wish his death, but there were many struggles, many difficulties, and finally the end of a partnership. It's perfectly normal to feel shocked at the news and also kind of distant.

I can assure you that for some of my relatives, and all of my husband's, their demise will just mean more family trouble. There just are not a lot of good memories there and there is an enormous amount of dysfunction. Any regret will be what might been have under completely different circumstances -- and that's just fantasizing. I'm just being honest here.

And Orchid, I'm so sorry to hear of your deep and shocking loss. This is a terrible, terrible blow to a family. Gentle thoughts for all of you.

Yonuh,

My ex died some years ago. I had stayed in touch with him on a regular basis over the years after our divorce, as our children were VERY young (my oldest was a mere kindergartner and she is now 32) when we divorced and we shared joint custody. He died a few days short of that same daughter's 13th birthday.

I knew he was dying -- he'd had cancer, been in remission and then it came back -- because by the time it happened, he'd become too ill to care for the kids, and I had sole custody.

STILL I was amazed at the impact his death had on me. Even though I'd thought all my feelings for this man had died at the time of the divorce - and I was happily remarried by the time of his death -- I actually felt somewhat like a grieving widow.

This took me by surprise, of course, and thankfully, Steve was an immensely supportive rock. (Though I think he had some challenges with his boss when he asked for bereavement leave to attend his wife's ex-husband's funeral.)

But Orchid and Ellemm are right. The two of you shared a life and had a child together, and though your time together with him is no more, I am not surprised that you find yourself feeling conflicted.

My best advice: Just realize that it's normal for you to feel the way you do, and allow yourself a bit of time to grieve. It is a final time of closure for you.

Sending you you my love and prayers.

Orchid, I too am sorry for your loss.

A sister holds a special place in your heart. There are so many things you have shared over the years of growing up.

At the same time, you want to protect your parents from their pain of grief, as you feel they already have enough to handle.

I am so glad your niece and nephew gave such loving eulogies. They will be happy they were able to do that, as the years move forward.

I am holding your family in my heart.

Orchid, I'm so sorry for your loss. Surviving the suicide of a family member carries with it a whole different grieving process. My condolences to all your family.

Thank you all. My sons are very close to their dad, so this is hitting them hard. I still think of them as my boys, even though they are both in their late 30s and have kids of their own. Isn't it silly how they never really grow up in our hearts?

May your boys keep well, yonuh during this time.

____________________________

Thanks for you all for your kind words so far. I told a friend whom I've known face to face for over the past 16 yrs. She told me her father committed suicide at 64 yrs...20 yrs. ago. I just learned of this and just am flabbergasted and shocked.

Seems like many people just walk around conflicted, holding a private /personal knowledge for large chunks of time when a suicide happens in family. It's difficult to talk a whole lot about it to people who aren't friends or aren't trained professionals in this area, because a person...doesn't have the answers and...sometimes doesn't feel like trying to give context/explanations to everyone else who learns about it.
Which is how I feel about it right now.

I fear very much for the health of my father now. However my parents are talking more openly about their reserved cemetary plots, etc. which they bought many years ago.

Right now my head and heart trying to process multiple things. (and shouldn't be here on a forum vs. doing other stuff). I wish this was just a strange, awful dream.

Hope you are having a better day today, Orchid. I am thinking of you, holding you in my heart. Be kind to yourself.

It doesn't seem to matter how old a person is, or whether you
had a good or bad relationship with them, when someone leaves
this earth, it's a shock. It saddens the heart and hurts the
senses. Even if it's expected. The pain runs deep. My sympathy
to all of you who've lost a family member in recent days.
I recently lost someone I loved very, very deeply. And I know
your hurt. The day I lost my adoptive mother, I thought I'd never
get over it. I was saddened beyond belief. God's blessings on
all of you!!!

Hi Jabber,

The Lord's blessings and my condolences to you, too, over the loss the person you mention above, who you cared for so deeply.

As I read your post, I am thinking you mean this is someone new - someone other than your adoptive mother.

Hi Anne,
Yes. I'm referring to my best friend of four decades, plus. She was aged and had been down'n out for the past five years. But
a sadness entered my being that I don't think I'll ever get over, when they put her in the ground. She and I spent a lot of time together and I see her face everywhere I go. She said she'd wait for me at Heaven's Gate. So she left me with something to
look forward to.

Jabber,

How special to have such a good friend for such a long time. and she's waiting for you, too. Here's hoping she is willing to wait a long time... We need you here.

Anne,
What sweet post. Thank you. I can feel, you have a beautiful spirit. Blessings...

A new post- yesterday was the sad (10th) anniversary of my Mom's passing. She was using for the first time, and inhaler prescribed by the dr. when she was having breathing problems due to(undiagnosed) emphysema (after the fact diag.) , and her airways shut down, with the most dire circumstances despite the best cpr my brother in law gave and the best attention from ems called to my sister's home...can you imagine their pain in this regard. I've felt guilty about this for all this time, because Mom called me the day before and I could tell she was having problems, and advised she go to the doctor. She went the next morning. The doctor did not know her whole medical history,had seen her in the past but not regular - and made excuses(she didn't take care of herself, she was depressed after your dad's passing, etc...just a load of crap) after, she did not recover from her coma that ensued after we did make the decision to take out the breathing apparatus, knowing her wishes in that light and her living will. It was a very long passage of pain for all of us, the doctors (in the hospital, neurology and pathology) in light of that were clinical but understanding to our pain and made Mom as very comfortable as possible, considering the situation. A long passage of 10 days til her burden was relieved. I wish I had had the courage to go after that doctor, he was very cavalier and made a lot of excuses at Mom's deathbed. I know others have had the same path when the DNR issue is a part of the equasion, and I am not garnering any sympathy in that path, please believe me. I just still am sad. I miss her often and know she is in a better place, but I am still very angry at myself. Yes, I know I should seek counselling there.. and I know it wouldn't have done any good to go after her primary care dr. .I have been told much in that light, in all the aspects...it won't make it right, and I have made some sort of peace, but still it's hard. When does it ever get easier in this regard...thanks for listening! Does it ever get easier.. Sorry to unburden so. this is one good place to put your heart and soul on a plate and never feel compromised, and I really appreciate that. I like just being able to voice this after so long, and I hope you guys understand.

Hi, Judy. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. In my former career as a nurse, I saw many situations like the one you describe. It's never easy when a parent, or other loved one, dies. Take care of yourself and do whatever you need to do to fully heal. I understand about being angry with yourself, but it doesn't do any good to play the 'what-if' game.

I hope you find the complete peace you need. I'm not sure we ever get over a death; but I think the pain does recede over time. We all grieve at a different rate; one person gets over something more quickly than someone else does. Since we are all different and unique, so is our grieving.

Judy, I can relate somewhat to your pain. My Mom's death (9 years ago yesterday) was also fraught with agonizing frustration at the inability of the doctors to search beyond her diabetes and other surface problems. When I first took her into emergency, they said it was a bladder infection and told me to take her home. I refused, saying there was something more. Then they did x-rays, found an old disc fracture in her spine...used that to explain her difficulties, but my instincts still weren't satisified. I actually had a breakdown, crying because I was so frustrated that nobody would listen. Finally, we managed to get her admitted to the orthopedic ward because of the spinal x-ray. That morning, as the doctors were doing their rounds, the head doctor roared, "what's this woman doing here"...my poor tiny white-haired 76-year old Mother lying in that bed was devastated and started crying (I hardly ever saw my Mom cry). I became very angry (unusual for me back then) and raged right back at the doctor "this is my Mom, there's something seriously wrong with her and she's here so you can find out what it is!" The doctor backed right down and sheepishly said, "ok, I would do the same thing for my Mother too".

Then they moved her to another hospital to the geriatric assessment unit. Kept her there for a month, and by the end of the month still had not found something that would explain the problems we had been seeing for months. One nurse even accused her to her face (poor Mom was sitting in a wheelchair in the common area vomiting in front of everyone when my brother, hubby and I arrived) that she was faking it for attention. We immediately had her removed from my Mom's care and the new nurse was much more compassionate. It took an amazingly frustrating amount of whining and advocating on our part to get someone to take us seriously...one doctor FINALLY gave her an MRI and found that she was FULLLLL of cancer...everywhere, spine, hips, legs - WHY hadn't they found it before we asked...doctor's response, we didn't look for it.

After that, they moved her to the back of beyond, way off in a corner of a much-neglected ward for terminally ill. It would take too long to tell you what she suffered there. Suffice to say that if we didn't get there early enough, she didn't get to eat, because nobody would make sure that her tray was close enough for her to reach...deep rings around her bum because they would leave her on the toilet for 2 hours at time (we found that one out from her roommate). It was devastating. I had to leave work several hours early to feed, wash and clothe my Mom for bed, then go back to work from 8pm to midnight to finish my workload. It was horrendous beyond words. We finally managed to get her moved to a beautiful compassionate hospice across town, but she died the day after the move.

I have lived with such guilt all these years, for the way my Mom was treated in those last two months of her life. This was a woman who was a volunteer in the hospital volunteer organization for over 50 years, who tirelessly campaigned and fund-raised for expensive machines and everything the local hospital could ever need. If we had been able to get her in the hospital where she had done all that volunteer work, she would have been treated like royalty. But in our hospital, she was treated like dirt.

Ironically, I found out, in Cuba of all places, from a public relations employee at that hospital (on vacation in Cuba) that the reason my Mom was treated so terribly was soley because of the DNR note on her file. She explained the reasons why, then promised that she would take my story back to work and she promised that change would happen. A few years later, there was a huge series in our local newspaper about the changes that had been made to the way terminally ill geriatric patients were treated. She was the main spokeswoman for the entire article, and though she never mentioned my Mother by name, I knew that my Mom's story had been the driving force behind her passion and hard work to bring changes to the system.

I'm sorry this was so long. But I too feel such pain and guilt even now...we can't go back and change history, but I hope I've learned enough from that experience to deal with future situations much differently. It's all we can do. I also talked with my Mom (through prayer) and asked her to forgive me, and felt a deep peace...wherever she is, she knows the why and all the reasons behind the decisions made at that time, she knows we made them out of love and care and with the best info we had at the time. It's helped heal the guilt.

Eagle Heart, I feel your pain also. When my mom was lying there in a coma, the doctor had the nerve to say "and we don't know what's going on else in there". He was treating her as dispensable, cause he didn't nor wouldn't take the time to order prior procedures. It turned out that Mom was diabetic and after I did research on the inhaler, it gave explicit warnings not to be used in that case. It was a total nightmare. I know what you are saying, my dear sweet mother in law overcame ovarian cancer to come back on her past the 5 year aspect, and when she was diagnosed once again, the doctor didn't even have the courage to tell her it was back. He left that to my husband. What a horrible aspect. I am sorry for your pain and all the pain that comes with the loss of a parent. Many thanks for your post and that DNR is a hanging sword for the loved ones..but we do have to honor wishes and all, I just wish I had stood up when I needed to. And I hate that you live with the same guilt also. It's a horrible passage- you just try to cope and when the anniversaries come up you just cringe and cry.

I appreciate your input, and know as your experience as a nurse, yes you have seen this way too often. One of the meager but still major blessings we did have were the nurses in ICU and on the floor after Mom had her tube removed (all verdicts there were that she wouldn't survive that, she was one tough lady and it was hard) . Our first couple nights there in ICU, we were trying to sleep on chairs in her room- it was so uncomfortable and cold in there, but we were awake and wary and alert to any change in the machinery tones and the miracles we prayed for. a kind of half in half out existence. The wonderful nurses brought us heated blankets and draped them on us while we tried to sleep. They were so comforting and did lull us into a comfort. I never will forget that and that was such a wonderful thing they did in the light of such awfulness. I will always appreciate them, and know that nurses carry the feeling and compassion of their selves in their career path. I admire that so.

And yes, the pain does recede over time, but does ever the guilt you feel about being helpless in such a situation, nor having the courage to pursue the wrong that was done your parent? I think that will never go away, you just pray they understand you where you were in that time .

Judy, I think the anniversaries do trigger the stuff that we haven't been able to heal yet. Everytime I feel that regret, I try to remember that I was able to use what I learned from Mom's experience and apply it to my brother when he went through his cancer in 2006/2007. We were much more vocal in demanding dignity and thorough investigation with him. And we made sure that there was no DNR on his record (it was enough that his family knew his wishes...we decided to leave it off his official record and we dealt with that decision only when we absolutely had to.)

It's really sad when we encounter medical staff who treat patients as disposable non-entities. Thankfully, I've since met many who are caring, thorough, nurturing and aware of the dignity of each person regardless of prognosis. In some cases, I think we have to draw that out of them, remind them, advocate for loved ones (and for ourselves as well) and not settle for less. As in almost anywhere else, squeaky wheels get the grease and I've had to learn to be a squeaky wheel when it really counts.

I hope you're able to find healing and peace with your Mom's experience. It was a very sad and tragic passage for her and for you. I really believe that we can and must find and give forgiveness, not only to anyone who has caused the pain and anger, but also forgive ourselves because somewhere deep inside of us, we're still blaming ourselves for what happened. But we're not meant to carry that guilt and burden forever. At some point, we have to relinquish it and allow ourselves to be forgiven and to move on and focus on happier memories. Easier said than done. But we're all works-in-progress, and for you and I, finding peace, forgiveness and healing is part of that progress.

It's been less than 2 wks. since my sister's suicide. Honest, I seriously wonder if any family can completely unburden guilt for not doing the "what ifs".

It is enormous just to even talk about it. Right now, it drained my motivation to write anything that falls outside of a job/work. After such a tragedy alot of things look trivial/feel trivial.

P.S. I can't seem to switch the happy face beside my pseudonymn to something else non-commital. Another trivial thing...

Orchid, dealing with the tragedy of suicide is unimaginably painful. The ripple effect of suicide is brutal and wounding to everyone it touches. Your grief is compounded by the agony of those "what ifs" and perhaps you're right, perhaps those never completely go away. The grief journey for me after each loss (my Dad, Mom and brother most significantly) has been about 3-5 years, with triggers even now, 9-10 years later. The hole and sense of loss never goes away. And it's so fresh for you right now, it will be inconceivable to you that you'll ever feel better or that the world will ever seem right to you. Be compassionate with yourself and this grief.

It's probably too soon, but someday I wonder if it might help to talk with people who have tried to commit suicide and survived. Like me. I can tell you that when I was in the act of taking my own life, it was nobody else's fault, nobody did or didn't do anything that was a factor in my decision. I had been depressed for so long, even been in hospital for treatment for 3 months, and still nothing was working. I simply wanted the pain to end. It wasn't so much that I wanted to die as I wanted the pain and relentless voices in my head to stop. I don't think that at that point anyone could have convinced me not to do it. One of the truths about suicide is that it's a very selfish act. I was obsessed and absolutely convinced that it was the only way now, since nothing else had worked. That's how depression works, it wraps you in a shroud of darkness that nothing and nobody can penetrate.

Very few are comfortable talking about suicide. I am. If you ever need to talk about it, ask questions, please use me and my unique insight into it.

I didn't realize Eagle you had contemplated it in the past. Seems like there was another BWS member who also was in a similar depressive state and also survived.

As for your comments on a different thread about your need and peace to be left alone rather than making the effort to contact friends, I understand how it feels.

Only 2 face to face friends know at this time and both have lost significant family members due to health condition or suicide. I just simply find it easier to hang out with people who have known me face to face for many years so I don't have to spend so much energy explaining about myself, family background.... I know that they may not give me the objectivity I need to deal with this right now. But what I need most at this time, is a comforting presence that makes no/little demands on me ...simply because such folks know me and various family members well enough.

I am also trying to conserve mental energy because I'm now living in different city, going to start to a new job. I've requested and granted an additional 2 weeks before the original start date. So glad I asked for it.

So several major life change shocks occurring simultaneously. My family also is turning their attention for practical reasons of helping my father to the next phase of his cancer...

So grief hopefully will get expressed in manageable ways that isn't shoved too deep under the rug for some of us in the family. I don't know. We'll see.

Hi Orchid,

I will continue praying for you as you move forward with your life. You mentioned that you recall there is another member of BWS who has contemplated suicide: There may actually be many, but one who has been quite vocal about it is Princess Lenora - She's the one who wrote Beyond the Tears: A True Survivor's Story and who not only survived her suicide attempt, but now is a social worker dedicated to ending the abuse that led to her suicide.

Of course there are many reasons besides sexual abuse/rape - probably PL's ultimate reason for choosing death to end her pain -- which can cause people to decide to take their own lives.

I recently read that suicide is growing among Baby Boomers. Here's one article about that, but there are plenty online if you want to look into this more. Don't know if that will help you and your family or not... Suicide Rates Up Among Baby Boomers

I think Vicki Taylor is another BWS member who has shared about her journey with depression and (I hope I'm remembering correctly, Vicki) suicidal thinking. At some point in the grief journey, it might help to question those who have tried or thought about suicide, because it does give a unique insight into the unfathomable despair and mangled thinking behind that desperate state of being. I know that there is great confusion, anger and frustration in the loved ones of those who commit or try to commit suicide...I had to answer a lot of angry questions and it really helped me to see what a terrible tragedy suicide truly is.

Yonuh, Orchid and Jabber: I'm sorry for your loss. I pray God comforts each of you. I know how hard it is. We recently lost mom and it affects each and every fiber in your body and soul.

We were not meant to die. But please know that I'll keep you all in my prayers.

Eagle Heart, I've been suicidal, even as recent as last month. But no one really cares and my family said that I'm on my own and not to expect any help from them. I've felt like that since a teenager due to child sexual assault. I so want to call the uncle who molested me and tell him he owes me financially for all that he's done to me.

Oh, Mustang!

I am so saddened to hear you have been suicidal and that you were sexually assaulted as a teenager by your uncle. Princess Lenora writes so eloquently in her book "Beyond the Tears" about her sexual assaults - and you probably know that she is a woman on a mission to lift the veil of secrecy on sexual assaults as so many of them DO lead to suicide.

If you haven't read her book or communicated with her, please do so. She's since gone back to college and become a social worker.

I don't know the ramifications of calling your uncle, but I am sure it would be worthwhile to write down your story and share your thoughts with the Universe, even if you just write them for yourself, read them and then have a ceremony where you burn the thoughts and celebrate that he/they can't hurt you anymore.

I am a big believer in Karma, so I am sure he will get his punishment somewhere along the road of life.

Meanwhile, you are a valuable person and such an important part of BWS. We need you here!

That's pretty much how I felt most of my life too. Now they're all gone and there's not even the hope of any of them caring. One reality that I had to come face to face with, and continue to struggle with, is that eventually - no, NOW - it's up to me and me alone to provide myself with what I need that others fail or refuse to give me. That's a huge "ouch" point for me, because I have a lot of rips in the fabric of my life that need mending, a lot of questions about worth and purpose that I need answers to...ultimately, it's up to me to decide what I'm worth and what my purpose is. Nobody else has those answers for me, and the people that I think should be helping, aren't helping. So I either give up, or do it myself. Very difficult to affirm oneself. I don't even know if it's entirely possible. But it IS possible for me to declare my worth and decide that my life IS worth living and that I get to decide how to live it.

It's not easy, still a day-to-day challenge, but I no longer choose the alternative. I want to live, and with or without them, I WILL live!

During this time Mustang, do you have a face to face friend to chat up occasionally? And please, say so that you would like to have coffee with them. Don't hint nor be too obtuse, vague.

No, I don't speak to anyone about it. I do chat it up at the stable with the other gals when the occassion allows.

Eagle:

It really is terrible.

Orchid, I am so sorry for your loss and pain. There is no easy way to get thru this stuff, time does NOT heal all wounds. Many prayers to you and yours, in all truth and my spirit. Wishing you as best can be during your grief time. And many prayers from all of us to support you, hopefully. If you ever want to unburden, this is the BEST place possible. It took me 10 years to unload my heart. Please know my thoughts and prayers are with you. It seems like there is no prayer, nor thought, nor wish nor a God that can take away your pain at this time..please know there are many there in this forum that can perhaps ease that in time.

and I have, though even after this long it is a perilous aspect and still a journey...still mad at the medical profession for dismissing human beings when they are too ill to "continue treatment"..rife with regrets, love for how they made me and how they shaped me and the total wonder that Mom and Helen gave birth to us..the thread is Very Very strong and a thing of wonder (I always wonder, do young mothers know the circle of life that they have created and committed to...it is a treasure beyond ken!) , dismay and guilt...I think we all carry that burden till we heal from the pain. Thank you so much for your post- and Prayers to Orchid, there is so much pain in her loss.

honey I am so sorry. that truly is horrible. Love to you and prayers to you and your family

I appreciate your reply, and yes am getting to a better place this long in the journey

So much sadness, I wish I could hold and heal everyone.

Judy and EagleHeart, I'm sorry you both still grieve from the way your Moms were treated. When we put a certain trust in the medical establishment to heal us or a loved one, it's especially bitter that those whom we trust let us down.

Yonuh, perhaps your conflict comes from grieving, not the flawed man you divorced long ago, but the man whom you once had hope in. Even though your emotional hope in him died a long time ago, his physical death seals the end of that hope.

Orchid, I'm so sorry for your sister's suicide. All the "what if we knew how bad it was, and what if we did something" is wasted guilt for something you really didn't know. Sudden grief is the hardest, because you had no time to prepare. That, added to your father's deteriorating health, is a huge burden for you to bear. Add that to the isolation of moving to a new town by yourself. My heart goes out to you.

Mustang, hang in there. Even if the people in your life are shi-s, your horses love you and so do we.

thx kind thoughts too from judy and meredith. It's strange to send emails to family...and now to omit a sibling's name. All sorts of reminders each day that a dear loved one is missing forever.

Mustang where are you at right now?
Darn that happy icon which has popped up beside my name...I need a non-committal face right now..

It's been over three years and I still can't bring myself to erase my brother's name from my address book. And there are still moments when the thought flashes through my mind to phone him. Lots of daily reminders everywhere we go. It never stops, I think it just gets easier to swallow down that flash of agony whereas in the beginning it was so excruciating I thought the "agony of absence" was going to suffocate me. I still allow myself to have a good cry once in awhile when needed. I'm finally getting to the stage where I can enjoy the good memories too...up until recently, every memory and reminder made me weep.

My Dad died suddenly in 1999...it took me about 3 years before I could look at a picture of him without totally breaking down. It wasn't like that when Mom died, maybe because we knew she wasn't going to survive the cancer.

Eagle,
The number of people in Heaven who were close to me here is huge. I miss them. But my prayer life sure has increased. Life isn't easy. And I'm certain many boomers know how you're feeling. You're a sweet, sweet lady. May the Holy Spirit comfort you daily. Prayers and blessings...

The day I heard my cousin died, I couldn't even speak! It took
a couple days just to say that she had died. Wow! Some things
are way too hard.

Dear Mustang,
how it shakes me to know that you're hurting so deeply! I am truly sorry that you are living in so much pain.

Please remember YOU are precious. You are a Gift of God. Thou others treat you with less respect than each person deserves, remember YOU are irreplaceable.

Not always do we realize how much others are enduring. Not always are we capable of understanding and helping. I pray you find healing in the love of God. I pray he gives meaning and direction to your life, that others can also find hope in their struggles, because of you.

Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves. When we forgive those who have wronged us, we are releasing us from the chains of resentment.

May the Lord comfort and guide you, that you may find joy and purpose to your life.

Love, peace and many blessings!

goodness what an intense and intresting thread.

mustange i am sorry your sucidal feeling are ongoing and have been present so soon in the past. i hope they are however in the past, if not plse do something.

orchid i so sorry about your sister and i know the burden and sorrow you talk about unfortunitly i have had a few frends suicide sucessfully, and they were healing professionals who knew all the tricks and perhapps thats what finally ended thir life, that they should have knowen better, be doing better and thi was nuthing they didn't know.

i had someone close recently try for suicide becouse of thir thinking and some very reacent hurts. the recent hurts couse reactions and open a lot of wonds, thi9s been a theam in my life for as long back as i was 24 i think it helped shapped my profession as my frend then suicided leaving me thir kid to look after.

then i rembered how many years they had been in the state of despaire and an almost soul level emptiness a deep darkness that i never meet as fully as them. people find me as i said since i was 24 younger but without the suicide.

the recent frend i was furiouse with the, the staff non commital and non judmental, ya could hate suck staff but its thir jobs.Its the loved ones who feel the strong enotions, staff are staff doing a job but they make the rest of humanity being humane look bad. The frends and family are full of rage anger, grieff helplkessness and powerless. Well i certinly was and for a week i was so mad madder than anything with them. I did in the end go visite them and wee chatted, i understood the extent of thir pain and its depth. we talked about it and in one of the chats i gave them with the best of my love for them permission to go ...bonkers eh. and what was i thincking. well not much apart from its none of my bussness and i can ask someone to stay but thats becouse of me thats what i want them to do, i wase't sure how i felt about it now ...but on that day i was very clear.

my sis attempted suicide summertime this year wasadmitted to hospital and i am smarting becouse despite my weekend state, thir leanning on me and i can't hold them any longer. i clearly told them not too becouse i could't hold them up and this time i can't be thir counceller. I can't be my owen grief is too great. I also do know they are so deep in thir depresion they don't even see thir being selfish trying to get me to listen to thir problems 3 times this week allready. afterall its been 1 mounth since po has diead and i should be able to get over it and get back to what i normally do. however its bit too painfull and bit too dranning and iv too much in life to do that i have to do.

i undestand the frends that don'[t wanna tax you went you talk i so understand that, i am also glade that you have two extra weeks off from work allthough this is no time at all.

i hope you rest and heal the best you can in your owen time.

the rest of you ladies i only imagine your owen versions of how you felt when you hade't stood up for your family enough, it leaves a very strange feeling but i hope you all know you all did the best you could.

i hope thir be more talking for the diffrent quorters as this is something that touches us all

my sis attempted suicide summertime this year wasadmitted to hospital and i am smarting becouse despite my weekend state, thir leanning on me and i can't hold them any longer. i clearly told them not too becouse i could't hold them up and this time i can't be thir counceller. I can't be my owen grief is too great. I also do know they are so deep in thir depresion they don't even see thir being selfish trying to get me to listen to thir problems 3 times this week allready. afterall its been 1 mounth since po has diead and i should be able to get over it and get back to what i normally do. however its bit too painfull and bit too dranning and iv too much in life to do that i have to do.


to give well, you need to look after self after a family member has died. I hope that you will find a way to talk with your sister. Maybe to drop some little cards, potted flowers for now for her. Something that she can see it's you.

I don't have answers at this time. But hugs, celtic.

We're here for you also Mustang, as Songbird has said.

yea your right maybee a card as i been toying with idea to phone her but it may be too violitiel but i can do a card and tell her i need some space and time for myself becouse of my owen hurt. then she not totaly rejected should know i care but can't hoild her up at this time.


great idea orchid thanks. and thats all the though i needed fa you.

i hope its getting a little easier for you too as christmass can be hard enough anyway