BWS has been my second home for so long, I don't even know where else to go when something like this wants to be shared. Well, there IS no place else to go. And it's too painful not to share.

I recently reconnected with a former co-worker of my brother Gary. She told me that even now, 2+ years after he died, they have not touched his workspace...nobody has ever had the heart to move anything, and because of downsizing, they haven't needed the space, so they haven't moved anyone into that office. Apparently, everytime anyone walks by his office, they salute it/him.

This so made me cry. I'm not the only one who still misses him, and clearly not the only one who thinks he died way too soon.

What a wonderful tribute to your brother! He must have been loved by everyone.

I understand Eagle and realise how many areas one life touches.Workplace collegues are important and this story warms my heart
How are you these days ?

Thanks MA...her comment deeply affected me. I've been leaking all over the place.

How am I? Seeing more light than dark, feeling more positive than negative, and further along the road to creative and peaceful coexistence with the new realities. JJ's story about her Mom has been a major inspiration for me...early mornings are the worst time for me, but as soon as I begin to feel the sadness and despair, I leap out of bed, open the window and breathe in the new morning. I'm not quite at the point of shouting "good morning world" out loud (have to adhere to the bylaws here, you know), but I do stretch out my arms and greet God with gratitude for another beautiful day. That's a long way from where I was a year ago.

Thank you, Yonuh. He was deeply loved and still missed. We've also been discovering that many people have been having some very funny "Gary-moments". One of the qualities people loved most about him was his humour and ability to make people howl with delight and laughter. He appears to still enjoy doing so.

First, I can't believe it's been two years. It seems like yesterday when I sat in this same seat, posting with you about your brother.

How cool is that? I love how they salute him when they walk by. Must make your heart happy to know how much he was loved.

I can't help but smile thinking of your precious brother everytime I make sugar free kool aid for myself, which is daily. I couldn't wait to get new jokes to share with him each day. At night his name passed my lips as I'd pray. We wonder sometimes why the good Lord takes the brightest and best of us too early to be with him but really being with God is a reward, not a loss of some sort. Those people at Gary's work have made a shrine of his office to remember him by, and that shouts to the rooftops what a generous loving man he was. We should all be so fortunate to have other humans think so highly of us while here and gone. You must be so proud Eagle as you were his best friend besides being his family.

Thank you Chatty. There's hardly a day that goes by that I don't wonder the "why" of it. Somewhere along the way I gave up trying to figure it all out and decided to trust that Someone somewhere has it all in hand. It's either that or succumb to bitterness. I just have to believe that there's more going on than we can see, a bigger picture, and someday we'll know the why of it all and it will make sense.

Your kindness will always be a candle in my heart, bringing warmth and comfort everytime I think of your kindness to us during that time.

Eagle,
What an awesome tribute to your brother, Eagle. Wow! 2 years
and they haven't let anyone else have his office! Again, I say,
awesome!

How wonderful the memories of your brother must be. Someday we'll all know the why of it, I guess. I have said, "Why, God,
why?" Much and often, these last four years. But like you I don't want to be bitter. So I choose to believe, He's all knowing. And someday we'll have the answers. Blessings and prayers,

Eagle
I read a book this week a novel from my library by Douglas Kennedy.In it he writes as a Mother whose little girl is run over...her subsequent grief..it is so well written I wept.
the woman is mad with grief...flees..attemps suicide and the story of her recovery is suberbly woven by Kennedy.
I thought about you when it said that the loss had to be "accomodated" and that is subject for a thesis.

Its a hard thing that happened loosing Gary.You shared and we cared.Thank you for sharing and I remain on your shoulder whispering that you find peace..

Jabber, I've been wrestling with this whole "why" stuff for sometime now. It's still hazy and evolutionary, but I think I hear the message that all situations and circumstances are the result of choices...if not our own, than other people's choices impacting on us. When it comes to changing other people's circumstances, it's a spider's web of choices and "allowing" at play, we're not always able to infiltrate or change the choices that others are making for/upon each other. The only people we can change are ourselves...we can change how our choices derail our own lives, or how our choices impact destructively on other people's lives. We can change how we deal with the impact that other people's choices have on us, but we can't change them. We can only try to inform, request, pray that other people make the best choices in their lives, but when they don't, then it's our responsibility to change how we respond or allow the impact of those choices to change our own lives.

I don't know the "why" of death and suffering, though I think it has to do with a much bigger picture than we can see. Hunger and poverty are the products of choices...again, an enormous spider web of political sabotage, greed, unwillingness for those who have to share with those who have not...the list of what has contributed to the suffering in the world is endless. We often feel we can have little impact on those situations. But I think we just start where we are, with what we can do...I sponsor two children...it's not feeding the world, but I'm helping feed two little mouths and hopefully helping them get the education they need to step out of that cycle of poverty.

The "why" of Gary and all who die too soon is just too elusive. I can't go chasing after it anymore, though sometimes it does break through and I do cry ouch again. But I'm realizing that his story is/was his story. His "why" might not be for me to know at this time. I need to focus on how I can change me and my health and my mindset so that I can have a more loving, compassionate, liberating impact on my little corner of the world. It's not up to just one of us to change the world, it's our responsibility as a community to change the way we live and interact with each other, that's how poverty and suffering will be eased. One person, one tiny change at a time. That's all I can figure out of all my "why" questing.

MA, that book sounds heartwrenching. I do indeed identify with the idea that the loss has to be accommodated. The journey through grief for me has been exactly that, learning how to co-exist with the holes in my life, how to fit my new reality around the losses.

For me it wasn't just Gary. The loss of both parents, Gary, so many beloved in-laws (hubby lost 4 siblings and 2 much-loved cousins within that same timespan) and the rest of my own family due to other circumstances...my entire world fell apart in too short of a time to cope graciously with. Hubby and I figured out that between the two of us we lost 16 significant family members within 9 years...that doesn't include the excruciating situation within my own family after Gary died, which may end up being irreparable.

Yes, it takes hard work and and heart-wrenching journey through "the madness of grief" just to learn how to accommodate all the losses and learn to live beyond the agony-of-absence.

I think I've turned the corner on that journey and can see more light than darkness now. I think (and there are some here who might heartily agree) that I swam in some murky madness of my own at times, but thank God for the love and compassion of so many here...that love became my ladder out of that madness and back onto solid ground.

Thank you, MA, for your constant love and care. I love hearing your wise voice whispering peace and courage into my the ears of my heart. I hear you!

Eagle,
Your posts show a great deal of wisdom, IMO. I know how it feels
to have lots go wrong in a short timeframe. A persons feel as if
their world is collapsing around them. Guess we just keep praying! Blessings,

Well I so understand when all the bedrock of family is lost.
I knew that had been an impact on my life..maybe even trained in counselling due to my own grief..."Phsysician heal thyself"
THEN
A rather remarkable event happened to me..a newspaper advert from a researcher sought people with my birth family name came into my hands..
I responded and boy was my computer busy.
The Canadian lady had at her fingertips a wealth of information which is ongoing at present.
I found I knew some facts correctly..other were blurred. we discovered names...found coincidences and for me an interesting process happened.
I grieved.
For the widow who went on to become my darling Grandfathers mother.She must have been through a dark place..but without her...my lineage would not have appeared.
We are all complex beings..and the wonderful thing is being here today in the here and now.
I had physical symptoms...felt at peace with some facts and fretted over others...e g phuemonia for someone in 1919 during the flu pandemic...glad antibiotics and nursing can help that now.the death of a boy child in 1886 other passings.
I SAW UNFOLD A DRAMA ALL OF MY OWN...Better than any book...

My conclusion is that all loss is grief..smaller variations of the ceasing of life..that we can and will work through the lesser losses so that we live fully...
Pain is helped by anothers love and concern..but ultimatly we all work things out for ourselves.But a little help from others is a salve.

I did have plans to do some deeper research..put it off..then bang..all this happens..and it has been a wonderful thing for us here...Healing takes many forms and fate does lend a land now and then..

I've been thinking all evening about this, about grief, about how it evolves a person in a completely different direction than before the loss. Two trains of thought: first, I wonder how much criminal activity has its roots in grief...as MA says, all loss is grief...so during our early lives, it's possible to encounter loss in various ways...loss of a parent - physically through divorce or death, or emotionally through the arrival of a sibling or a myriad of other ways; loss of a sibling, loss of stability, loss of a home, loss of lifestyle...loss of childhood through abuse of any kind...I wonder, if a child struggles with enough loss in those years, I wonder if it completely changes the direction of that child's life/mindset/neediness/behavior patterns...which then translates into various neurosis, psychosis, anger and trust issues - which is fodder for lashing out through criminal activity (other ways to lash out as well, but this was the direction of my thinking, sort of tying it into the whole discussion on how suffering is the result of a myriad of choices that impact on our/other people's lives).

My second train of thought was more inward. It's not my intention to always drag my grief into every conversation here. And yet, it leaks out. No matter how far along this road I think I've come, the grief is still the defining undercurrent in my life. Everything comes back to the grief. There is another discussion in the forums about the old days...as I read through the list, it made me cry...I can't go there, I can't think about the old days, because it reminds me of how much I've lost, how everyone who was vital to me back then is gone now. It still hurts. And I couldn't participate in that discussion because it would have been too sad and i didn't want to pull the conversation down by yet again injecting the issue of grief into it. Everything I read, everything I try to talk about here always drills me down to the grief. I can't seem to keep it out of the conversations. It has completely changed my life and soul and nothing is or ever will be the same as "before". I'm moving on, yet, it's only a picture, a word, a smell, a thought, a memory away...no topic, no conversation, nothing is exempt from those intricate tendrils of grief.

Yes..
I strongly believe that events ..traumas will set another path as a child/person struggles to work through greif/loss...Loss can be loss of their dream..
It can make a person sad translated to being mad...with anger.
Just like love can be so passionate it makes a person crazy at the early stage of connectiong..loosing someone/something could set the scene for most any anti social actions.Those who turn things inward hurt themselves (and those who love them)and then another set of grief and loss starts.
But all is not lost...the arts...hobbies being made to feel that a person matters can heal..as does any bond with another..pet/community/church even here on the site Dotsie started.
Yet even here we may bring past sorrow so complicated that it be unresolved.Others in any group can be blind to their own vulnerability and not "see" how words can hurt another person.
No one woman on this site has all the answers...but together we may be able to help.External input by face to face connection is important.Be that in a shop or with a friend.
Wording carefully how we speak to another in any group is important..

Your second point Eagle...reading about the old days..this is a gauge to your feelings.Your brain knows your pain.
I get upset at things I read everywhere..in books/paper and hear on radio..
There is no need to stop mentioning your sorrow or your loved brother..Never feel that.
Lots for me to think about from your post..wish we could walk the wee roads here..laugh and cry and hug.
take care...

Word association triggers all sort of emotions. But that's life.
Probably the best thing you can do is write through your pain.
That way your pain is being released. I've found writing is a wonderful release. We understand. Many of us have been and are
going through tons of grief. We've got each other. Thank God.
Prayers and blessings,

And believers have what other people don't: God! Don't you feel
sorry for people who don't believe in God. That alone is disabling!

Theres a saying that goes something like this:

Better to be a person who believes in God and there isn't one, than to not believe in God only to find out he exists.

Chat, that's precisely what Francois Mitterand (French President)said when he reverted from atheism. He suffered from cancer and found he needed to cling to hope more than rationale thought.

Well I for one am not taking any chances. I believe and have given my life over to Jesus Christ. I am hoping for a place in heaven or whatever awaits us in the Lords name. Now if theres is nothing after death none of us will be any the wiser anyway, right?

EagleHeart and Mountain Ash -- I know I'm really, really late in reading this, but I wanted to say how much your posts moved me.

As long as humans have been able to communicate exchange of joy sorrow and worry has allowed growth.and shown compassion
Added to that the written word where an author shares graphic description can allow the sharing of titles.
I am moved by the written word often..and so often the book is just what I needed at that particular time..
Sharing...and caring.. glad you found Eagles post Merideth..

Douglas Kennedy hits the spot for me..wish he had more books..

What an incredible forum...touching topic, heart-felt sharing, incredible women and I felt like I was walking on sacred ground as I read through each person's comment...thank you for sharing such a personal story...all of you.

Friend Dee, I have found that mostly in this world we get what we give out aqnd you certainly are the poster girl for that statement. You tourself are heart felt, touching in your life and incredible in who you are and you simply are getting what you give to us all...

Chatty, I agree totally with your comments about Dee...Dee, you shine so brightly into the lives of the people you care about and are a lovely kind heart. I'm glad our lives touch.

I have to share another Gary-experience. We just spent a week at a military firefighters' reunion in a beautiful part of British Columbia on the west coast of Canada. Gorgeous scenery everywhere. We had a lovely time, with hubby meeting all sorts of people he had worked with over the years.

It was my first time in BC. But while we were touring the small town of Comox (where the base and reunion were), I suddenly realized with surprise that this was the same place my brother Gary had spent several summers as a sea cadet in his teenage years. It really hit me hard while we were watching the parade on Monday (a holiday) and the sea cadet band marched by...I realized that Gary had marched in this same parade, playing his saxophone in the band, a little over 20 years ago. And I was struck with such sadness because I had never thought to ask him about his experience there. I realized how much of his life I had missed out on by not asking questions or being interested in his activities.

I still enjoyed my time, and was glad to see the place he had enjoyed so much all those years ago, but there was a sadness in me the entire time as well.

I now believe that these experiences are meant to teach us lessons that we can carry on into future relationships and encounters. This taught me to step outside of my social timidity and care enough to ask questions about the things that matter to the people who matter to me...while we still can.

Eagle, I enjoy hearing about your get-aways. Was your husband a firefighter?

Glad to hear you worked through it. I think most of us missed out on certain segments of our siblings years becasue we were so wrapped up in our own lives at the time. For the most part, it's when we were in our 20s.

My younger sister and I were talking recently and I realized how clueless I was about a certain time in her life. I was away from home and harldy communicating with her at the time. I spoke with Mom and Dad, but not the sibs too much. I find it weird, but it's just the way life played out. Then as we all married and had children, we connected again. Now we talk all the time and are intimately involved in one another's lives.

Eagle
I do understand the bitter sweetness of being in a place a loved one spent time.
yes and if we attempt to be connected with those we care about and ask pertinant questions we have learned a life lesson well.
my recent spell staying in a coastal village allowed me to view the sea...sit a while and savour the place that my ancestors lived and died in..it charged my visit with appreciation for how I was abled to have quality time in a place that was significant..kind of paying a personal homage..
so from the other side of the world another was doing much the same as you were...and all around us I suspect others do so also

Mountain Ash, I love the thought of both of us sitting beside water contemplating and appreciating connections.

Dotsie, yes, hubby was a firefighter, and fire chief of several Canadian military bases. When he retired, he was the fire marshall for all of the Canadian military naval ships.

The coast has mostly remained unchanged since the time when I have recorded evidence of forbearers..the rocks the cliffs..the aspect will be what existed way back but roads change.as do towns due to modernisation.Churchyards are still there and one or two buildings..but the sea draws me and makes me content..makes me know every day is special.