"One of the easiest human acts is also the most healing.
Listening to someone. Simply listening.
Not advising or coaching,
but silently and fully listening."

Margaret Wheatley

Living life as a healer, is one of the highest of human
callings. There are many healers on this site!

Margaret Wheatley is certainly full of insight!

Here's another one:

"For listening is the act of entering the skin of the other and wearing
it for a time as if it were our own."

David Spangler, Parent as Mystic, Mystic as Parent

And that's a goodie, too!

I get daily inspirational quotes from www.wellforthejourney.com. Lately, they've all had to do with listening. I'm totally enjoying them because I've been focusing on that lately.

When God speaks to you, is it a feeling deep down in your soul?
Can you describe hearing from GOD? I heard even preachers say
it was not actual verbage but a feeling of confirmation. What
say you?

It's both for me. Sometimes it's a feeling of affirmation. Other times I hear words and actually converse. What shocks me is that He is never unkind. He may tell me things I don't want to hear, but He does it beautifully. A great example for communicating.

Dotsie, I just corrected the link; it's http://www.wellforjourney.org/

Will check it out. Thanks.

Dotsie,
Now that got my attention. You hear words and actually converse.
I never thought that possible. I'm amazed. Whatever you have, wish I could capture. Has it always been that way for you,
or is it a recent thing? Do you consider yourself deeply religious? As you can tell, and I've stated before, I'm searching. I feel like I've been beaten to a pulp the past couple of years. And I'm trying to pick myself up and get glued back together!

Dear Dotsie:

Thank you for sharing that web site, which is deeply inspirational. I particularly liked:

When the Heart Waits

“The spiritual journey is one of becoming real. Waiting can offer us the gift of authenticity. It can help us give birth to a new way of being true to ourselves. As we wait, we discover that it’s okay—really okay—not only to imagine who we truly are inside but to say who we are, welcome who we are, and even be who we are.”

-Sue Monk Kidd

this is a cool thread.

Dotsie what role if any dose intuition play with the voice of your god?

So what you're saying is, as we wait on the Lord, we discover
our true identity, or He shows us our true identity? Is woman's intuition a spirituals gift?

eh jabber i didn't make a statement i was askin a question and its simple this.

god talks in voice to D but would she also consider intuisuon (male or female)as the working of god.....voice or urge was what i was comparing and asking about that's all.

Didn't mean to misinterpret your post. I've wondered a great
deal about the concept of God speaking to people. I've never
heard His voice, literally. But I do think He gives direction
in wisdom of thought. I question how others view this difficult
subject. That's all!

jabber, it's new within the past five or ten years. It's taken practice, lots of sitting at the kitchen table alone with Him.

We should get Eagle in here becasue she also converses with Him.

Deeply religious? Hmmm, more like a close personal relationship. I'm not the type of person who reads the Bible and remembers everything about the people, land, time, etc. I read and recall feelings, emotions, how people were treated, etc.

celtic, intuition is different than conversing with God. Intuition is what takes place when not in prayer, at least for me. I do believe in women's intuition, but I guess even at the ver core, that too would come from God. Make sense? Clear as mud?

Josie, if you liked that, youmight want to get her book and read it. I thikn I once told Eagle about it and she's read it too. I reead it years ago with my prayer group, then took the class at the Well a couple years ago and read it again. It's a worthwhile read. Great for midlife women.

I believe if we are intentional, seek His guidance, then He reveals his plan for us. It takes work and we can get off track, but He's always there to get us right back on.

Just my beliefs.

Dotsie, are you referring to "When The Heart Waits"? I did read it, and I don't know how to adequately put into words how rich and revitalizing that book was for me. Let me start by saying that it took me months to read it, I could only read a few pages at a time, sometimes only a few words. But here's the mystery of this book for me...everytime I picked it up to start reading it again, it spoke EXACTLY to where I was at that moment. It was extraordinary. It was as if she was writing this book just for me, as my journey was progressing, because almost every single word she wrote was my story, my journey, my darkness.

When I began, I was drowning in grief, so overwhelmed with emotional pain and spiritual bereftment that I could barely function. Dotsie recommended the book, and from the front cover to the back cover and every word in-between, there was no doubt that God Himself brought this book into my life to help me crawl through my pain to the other side of this grief. It was astoundingly accurate for me. It companioned, enlightened, empowered, understood and guided me through every step of the journey. Amazing.

It won't be like that for everyone, but I was open to its message, and read it very prayerfully, always asking for the eyes to see and ears to hear what I needed to get through the pain. He answered. The book was just one more very tender reminder of just how much He truly cares.

I think there's a huge difference between the terms "religious" and "spiritual". For me, the word "religious" denotes adherance and conformity to the canons, rules and norms of a particular church or religious institution. While I enjoy and yearn for community worship and the joys that come from journeying together within a community of believers, I'm at a point right now where the rules and expectations and obligations of the institutional "religion" stifle me and don't fit me anymore. Someday they will, but for now, it's okay that I just "be still and know that He is God". It's/He's enough for me right now, in the space and frame of mind I'm in these days.

So I can't say I'm religious, but I am in deeper personal relationship with God than ever before...somewhere in my journey through the grief and pain of the past few years, I met Him in a whole new way, He touched me in unmistakeably tender caring ways, and now our relationship is so much richer and satisfying than ever before. I don't talk about it as much as I might like to because I think it weirds people out...partly because I see and read the scriptures in a whole new light and it's far more loving, tender and empowering than any of my religious contexts ever allowed for. He's simply the core and vitality of all that I am now...and when I'm open to all possibilities where He's concerned, the possibilities are endless and bright - and it really, truly is all about love.

Ditto, EagleH, religion and spirituality have become interchangable for most. They are two different concepts. You can have both, you can have either, or you can have neither --- except that not having a religion can be a virtual religion, in itself.

THE key... I've had messages, and they have been as good as someone speaking. It's not an external audible, but it certainly can be 'heard,' vividly in fact, as if it were from an external source.
Sorry, my screen is popping around, again. This may come out all crazy sounding and all... maybe I need to post in segments. Anyone else having this problem?

Well said... exactly what it's all about. Open the door for HIM... he'll come in! and what comfort HE brings!

Again, very well stated. Intuition is a sense, which equates to a gift from God, just like our other senses. Hearing God's voice is beyond ourselves (as in body and the mechanics of it, whether physical, emotional, or otherwise). It is SUPERnatural, tapping into the MASTER sense of the all knowing, all caring, all powerful, "I AM THAT I AM".. (popular English translation of Ex 3:14)

So true, and so good!

I agree intuition is different than talking to or with God.
But throughout life, I've heard big named preachers say [God told
me this or that] as if God actually said, "turn right at the
next signal," in an audible voice. If God loves everyone equally,
and He treats everyone equally, how can I get Him to talk to me
like He does others? That's my question!

Post deleted

Why am I being ostracized?

Eagel Heart,
I didn't see your #189119 post before you deleted it. You are
NOT being ostracized or shunned in any way. I just didn't see it.
I'm short on time most days and just come in and scan "my stuff"
and then exit quickly. Please re post what you said, if you
recall the point you were making. Then I'll comment the next
time I get in here. Prayers and blessings,

Eagle, I can understand you questioning this. The forum isn't as active as it once was, and if I recall, it is never that active in the summer months. I think the ladies here are out in the sun more than behind their computers. I have posted many a post the last few months without receiving any reply. So what...it's like journaling for me. I can always look back at my posts, and see what I was talking about a few years back. That is sort of cool.

This is so true. Sometimes I choose not to burden any of you with my "goings on" as my granny use to say, but in the last few weeks I've been pulling granny duty because my DIL had surgery and my son and the kids needed me to fill in for her for a bit. So just this morning I got up at 4:30, made deviled eggs and Chicken Cacciatore, creamed potatoes to take to their house once I pick up the girls at 1:30 today...so I have very little time to do anything else except try to cram in as much work as I can.

Then my mother had test run and it goes on and on...

Forgive me for not replying to a lot of your post but in a few weeks I should be back to "normal" by my standards, anyway. Did I hear snickering?

I, too, believe He is always there for us. Although life is often challenging and sometimes there is much to overcome, if we keep our hearts open to each new day, the serenity will often visit.

Working with survivors of tragedies involving murder, (I am such a survivor too) I teach and practice that it can be a powerful tool to just stop, breathe, and savor the moment He has given us.

One moment. One deep breath. Ahhhhh. He is within us!

I've been trying to listen to the "new reality" that BWS has become. I simply don't know how to fit in here anymore. BWS has been my home for many years. I would go so far as to say that it's quite possible that I could not have made it through the past few years without BWS and the women who loved me back to life here. So many of you have radically changed my life and given me the courage and strength to conquer the quicksand that has forever loomed too close for comfort. I've been on a mission of sorts over the past few months, to change my focus from all that I've lost to all that is still here in my life. It's taken a great deal of courage, self-talk, tears and stubborn perseverence to stay positive, because every fibre of my being aches every single moment of the day with intolerable sadness and agony-of-absence. There are not enough words to describe the excruciating pain of the past 2 years. And why would I even want to inflict that on anyone anyway. It's enough that you have all been here throughout Gary's demise and death, and that you have been more than patient as I have struggled with this intolerable endless grief.

I do feel like I've turned the corner. Only to find that after all that hard work and diligent refocusing, I seem to have lost my footing here. I try to fit in, but so many of my posts seem to fall flat and seem to stop the conversations from continuing. It's to be expected that somebody's post has to be the last one in a conversation, but lately, it seems to be mine that stop the flow, and that makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't want to intrude or interfere in the flow, I just want to participate like everyone else.

One can only take so many dead ends before she starts to question the "why" of that. I don't want my presence or voice to ever be a party-pooper here. Sometimes I feel like my input is more intrusive than welcome or helpful. If it is, I need to know. Maybe the grief has changed the tone of my voice, or maybe the sadness leaks out despite all my efforts. I don't know. I don't know what to do.

I think many women have gone to other places, like Facebook. but the deep conversations that we have had here can't take place there. I haven't found any other place that can support soul searching and give feeback like BWS. Not that I've been looking, so this is just an assumption. Of course it is to be expected with all the comings and goings around here that it is hard to converse with newcomers who don't know your background and what you have been going through.
Still, many of the "old" crowd stop by, but not as frequently,...I think we are all moving on in our own way.

My posts are often not replied to .

I just went back to read Dotsie's original post in this thread:

"One of the easiest human acts is also the most healing.
Listening to someone. Simply listening.
Not advising or coaching,
but silently and fully listening".

Could it be that, in some way and for some people, the flow for this particular thread was precisely that?

That's why I deleted my post. It was in response to the question of how we can get God to talk to us like He does to others. I tried to be sensitive to the spirit/Spirit of the discussion. When there was no response for several days, it occurred to me that perhaps I had overstepped the boundaries of this thread and that what I had written had come across as "advising or coaching", or worse, proselytizing. My only desire is to be a conduit for God's love and light. My post failed to do that, so I deleted it. Self got in the way and cried ouch...probably for feeling unlistened to and unheard.

Eagle,
I always look forward to your input. Like you, I've lost many
friends & family recently, people I loved dearly. And my brother
is seriously ill. I love your wisdom and kindness. So please
don't stop posting. Could it be that all your pain in losing loved ones, has made you overly sensitive? Generally, in everyday life, I'm easily hurt. But on BWS I don't seem to let stuff get to me like it does in my everyday comings and goings. Please don't think you stop the flow of what's being said. It isn't that way at all. But many of us R extremely busy; it takes a lot of time to read every thread and every post. Most days I only have time to scan. So please be patient with us and let your wonderful understanding excuse our humanness, if we step on out of line! lol...
Prayers & blessings,

Eagle,
I always listen when you post something. I like to learn from
people with a heart. And I can feel your spirit and heart.
I've been floundering lately because I've had a lot of garbage
to deal with. And it's heartbreaking garbage, to boot! I like to
draw on the spiritual strength of those I admire! And I admire
you! I just didn't get to this thread until today! That's all!
Prayers and blessings,

And, you were. I caught your post before you deleted it and it offered much to reflect upon:

"For listening is the act of entering the skin of the other and wearing it for a time as if it were our own."

You were sharing a spiritual journey, which is what the Faith section is about. The nature of the topic also allowed for reflection from what is shared more than immediate participation in general. Do you have the post saved in order that the thread could pick up from where it left off?

It seems that there's a lesson God is trying to teach me, perhaps something about humility...it seems that for my entire life I've had to beg to be heard...but the irony is that once you beg for any gift, it's no longer a gift, is it? Begging someone to listen is somewhat paradoxical because once you've begged for it, there's always the nagging question of whether it's freely given or obligation, so then it's no longer the gift you were really yearning for. What I really yearn for and have yearned for my entire life is to be heard without having to ask for it. I can't help but see the spiritual implications of that. Some would say that being pure Love, He yearns for nothing...and that to imply that He does is to paint Him in the colours of our own human neediness and imperfections. And yet, I have to wonder if He too enjoys being listened to without having to ask for it.

My pride has taken a beating here, because this has probably come across as yet again begging to be heard and it wasn't my conscious intent to display my neediness for all to witness. I can hear Jesus chuckling in the distance. He's clearly not finished with me yet, is He...I suppose that's a good sign.

The deleted post:

There's a scripture verse that's perhaps one of the shortest, yet for me, one of the most powerful: "Be still and know that I am God". It would seem that God speaks to people in many ways, through many venues...it seems that He finds whatever way best suits the ears and eyes of the person He's trying to reach...music, books, scripture, other people...virtually everything is at His beck and call to use to woo us into His presence and into deeper relationship. In our busy lives, we just often don't take the time to truly "be still", but even more problematic, IMO, we often cannot fathom that God Almighty would even WANT to speak with us, so we tend to not believe that that teeny tiny "voice" in the back of our minds is His.

My rule of thumb, and it's not everyone's, but it works for me, is that anything that speaks love, edification, peace and abundant life is God trying to get through to me. Sometimes it comes through other people, sometimes it comes from nature, sometimes it comes in the form of that very quiet voice in the back of my mind...I do listen to it. Sometimes it's my own voice speaking stuff to me, sometimes it's the voices from the past - whenever the message is one of guilt, judgement, demoralization or diminishing in any way, I know it's not God's voice. God's voice ALWAYS speaks love, and always furthers my understanding of mercy, love and compassion. That's been my experience. I've learned to shoo away anything else, no matter who it comes from, no matter how "big" or renowned the preacher might be. The more I listen, the more time I spend "being still and KNOWING that He is God", the more I grow in my understanding and acceptance that God loves me, and that He only wants to speak love to my heart. Anything else that disturbs my spirit or demeans me in any way is (IMO) not from Him. It works for me.

Being open to being surprised helps. We tend to box God into the Scriptures and think that He can't say anything new. He's the Master Creator...anyone who is creative knows that creativity is evolutionary and urges you to constantly find new ways to express what it is you want to say. Why not the same with God. Why wouldn't He want to find new and creative ways to speak Love to our hearts - He has a lot of background noise to wade through to get to our ears, He has to find creative ways to reach us these days.

He has a sense of humour. Once you tap into that, and believe that He might actually love you enough to want to be in delightful dialogue with you, everything becomes possible.

It is still a gift if we look at it from the perspective of the giver than the receiver. Then we cast the doubts aside and let nature take its course. Glad to see the post again, Eagle.

Some things -
1. I often feel I'm left unanswered. You are not alone. I've learn to 'let it go.' I think it comes from not being heard all my life, just like you. I've come to a point of not caring --- not in regards to the people involved, but about a negative effect/affect. It's something that has to be learned, indeed... 'cause it cerainly didn't come to me naturally or without effort. I like what EW said about it being a good way to journal... heaven help us if BWS disappears and those of us who don't journal in a book have nothing to look back to.
2. Sometimes I feel too dumb to reply or follow a post. Another thing I need to learn to get over. I shouldn't care if what I have to say comes across uneducated, weird, ugly, etc... but sometimes I worry.
3. Sometimes I only have time enough to see if an question I posed was answered. Even when I try, they sometimes get covered up. I hate that time is getting shorter... I so want to be here all the time, but it just isn't feasible, practical or healthy.
4. Just because we don't get replies, we shouldn't silence ourselves. It might be that some day down the slope of time, the very words we post will help another survive a moment, a day, a week, a lifetime.
We love you eagle....

Gims, I get what you're saying about not caring, a lesson I keep having to learn over and over and over again. Caring about the people, but allowing others to be who, what and where they are while not allowing their actions to affect or define me, which is exactly my tendency, to interpret things to my own detriment instead of allowing others to just be other.

As for #2, for as long as we've been sharing together here, I've yet to see anything but inspiration, light, companionship and care in your posts. In fact, there are many times when I wait to hear what you have to say on a topic, because your responses are wise, witty and informative. I love how you research information for us here.

I understand the time constraints. My problem isn't time, it's mental clarity. Maybe it's the new AD's or allergies, or both, but my brain is quite foggy most of the time, which is why I play these silly games on Facebook, because they keep my brain active and stimulated.

#4, see, that's wisdom, Gims. I forget that sometimes our purpose is simply to plant seeds.

Helping others survive, IMO that's what this site is all about!
Eagle and each and everyone of you gals, may post just the
right phrase that helps me make it through a moment, a situation,
or a difficult time. Many of you have wonderful insight and I too
wish I had more time to spend here. But I have people in my
life who need me to be there for them. So my timeframe in here
is brief. Thanks for posting that post again, Eagle. Here's the
bull's-eye I was targeting: Dotsie said she actually hear's God
speaking to her at various times. I agree He speaks in non verbal
ways to everybody. But I've never actually, literally heard His
voice! For a very long time, now, I've wondered, if He speaks to others why doesn't He speak to me. The Bible says He treats everybody the same! He doesn't favor one person over another. That's what I'm wondering. Haven't any of you wondered that?

You, Eagle and others help so many here, including me.

Having lost ALL family members older than my 59 year old self, including my beloved sisters, brother, parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc and two including my sister through murder........I am forever scarred by what seems like one tragedy after another.

Thank God for professional help and the support of my husband and online/offline friends. It is their love and nurturing which allows me to share with others who are in the same boat.

Yes, I still mourn deeply and have days when my feelings of wanting to join my sisters get really strong. It can get really scary.

When things get really bad, I take out pictures when we were all small and times were innocent, and I have a good hard cry...Eventually my smile comes through. I think it's because my sisters are sending me messages that until I join them, I must build up more happy "magic moments" for others to remember.

One day at a time....one hour at a time....one moment at a time. Each breath is a gift from the One who will reunite us all in due course.

Wow, so much going on here that's good. Glad to hear you all conversing and sorting things out while I've been off visiting with my son in NYC.

All I can say is that I love all the women here for the wisdom they drop in my lap almost every day of my life. What i have to remember is that we all run in, read, post the best we can, then run on to the rest of our lives. I wish I could hang out here all day because I like some of these conversations better than those in real life, but we all know we can't do that.

All of you plant so many seeds of faith that keep me quessing and growing, and I gather it's the same for amny who read here.

Jabber, all I know is that the more I communicate with God, the more he communicates with me. It just like any other relationship. The more tiem you spend with soemone, the closer you become, the better you know them, the better they get to know you.

Eagle posted something that I interpretted as all that comes from God is love. If it isn't love, it isn't from God. He does all things with love. So when I say I hear his voice, what I typically hear are positive strokes about my life, and also changes I need to make that are spoken by Him through love. Things like, you could have handled that differently, did you really respond in love, wo, you were out of step with that, etc. He tells me how to live, and when I'm wise enough, I listen.

When we get in the habit of checking in with Him each day - to go over the day before, and to place the new day in his lap, I think we can hear Him more clearly.

Josie, your post really touched me to the core of my being...I know those feelings so well. Like you, I find ways to stem the tide of the darkest of those feelings. I still can't look at pictures of my family...even going down the staircase where all their pictures are hanging on the wall is sometimes too painful. I miss them so much. I like how your sisters keep helping you to stay strong and alive. I think Gary does that for me too. Keeps reminding me that all of us have our time to live, our purpose to share with others and our loved ones - including God - rooting us on all the way.

Dotsie, I once "heard" God tell me that if I couldn't look myself in the mirror and love who/what I see (which I've not been able to do comfortably most of my life) how did I think I'd ever be able to look Him in the eye. I thought I was crazy, but as I began to listen to Him wooing me in that direction over and over again, I began to understand what He meant. The person in the mirror is His creation too...if I praise and honour Him for all creation, that has to include the person I see in the mirror. That's a hard one for some of us to swallow. But I understand it now....until I can look in the mirror and see beauty and masterpiece, I'm a long way from understanding the depths of His Love for me.

pheeew this went on and i dint realise it was such a fast going chat, like the rest of you i pop in and out back to face to face people. Sometime for reasons i am isolated in the house and i chat on line .....also i chat when i surrounded by people, the time is spent unevenly but its consistently uneven with everyone and everything. Its all relational for me same as for you all too i am sure.

this faith sections my fav place to read. Sometimes i post sometimes not when i do not how do you know i have even read it? I guess you don't and if i haven't read it in good time for the chat i will eventuatelly read it. I saying i think that no word in this section goes unread. We all come here in different moods for some its only when their happy and can spread love for others its only when their sad and need uplifted. I know i treat these sections of forum differently from others sections. Hear i more likely to get my coat off and shoes off get comfortable and get vulnerable.

i too chated from the hart and not been answered here and elsewhere and it hurt. Sometimes its because theirs no answerer to what i asked or was saying or people couldn't get past my bad spelling to hear what i was asking or expressing. sometimes my post too long with multiple questions, other times i thinking someone else need was more important and focus was on them. who knows and sometimes like some others , lola was saying its about listening.

perhaps we forget how vulnerable and close to our harts the idea of god is for those that read these sections. Like gimas was saying i to sometimes have nothing new to say or do not now what to say to further the chat, of course i might bleather anyway lol.

online chatting so complex any ways its more tricky because its about deep held beleaths and how best to deal with that. I think its to do what eagle did do and say hello did you notice....xyz then we all clear weer we stand. that is if your brave enough to say it which a whole new storie. lol

EAGLE
you said of BWS that theirs a new way of being here? have i missed something? and yes i also play on fb when i do not have brain power to talk or think or want to avoid something in life. for me here serves one function fb another, both are values for what they bring me in life,ts also about practical application for me and time. At lest when you send me on fb a rose or good karma i know you meen to send me love, for others its only a few buttons to click
I don't think bws is being replaced or will be lost don't panic.


JABBER
i know dotsie answered you about hearing voice of god but i just wanted you to know i also wondered that very question too.
you could be hearing voice of god but think its random thoughts or memories or perhapps you gotta listen for how she talks with you.


one more question bellow....how i see it and my question if ya don't mind

all; thanks for letting me get a purer grasp on intuition which yep is voice of god too (as it serves in another way)and it was described and explained exilentlie heeer.


one thing eagle touched on was "who are we that god would talk with us" that type of attitude been the big thing that stopped god talking to me with a direct voice as i would never believe it was "the" voice.
An urge was acceptable, the voice of spirit (desesed grand mums or other relative)a though or idea to do something was acceptable. Someone described it as (though processes my owen)verses direct voice (outsider voice).


I also wonder how it can be clearlie seperated/? I know the forms of voice and the loving rule feeling uplifted when its heard etc no argument with that and also I know to garde agenst my own ego or negative energy.

So that's all from god no question or argument their but its from god....originated from god but maybe by time it reaches my ears or just consciousness its from my ...say granmum or guardian angel...or substitute some other intermediate being. Then the question i am asking is how do you get comfortable knowing its god direct without the need for piggies in the middle to carry the message from god to you?

I am thinking its got to be more than practice and doing it. Thrs got to be a change in attitude or is it religous differences? Some religions say its ok and acceptable for god to talk direct to you others treat you as not worthie enough to hear god? Is that one of the diffrenses do you think?
Is it one of self-esteem and thinking you are worthily enough to hear god, direct?
Also did it happen all at once or was it a gradual thing? i am not meaning hearing information from god, practising meditasion or whatever your method may be but when did you hear god for the first? or was it always hearing god from the first you ever heared?

i would love to know, i think their was no messing about one night for me one night distinct from all others nights in my life i heard felt and saw...stuff (chat another day).
However many other nights i listened and heard and some lives been saved, literally my my actions in those moments, other times a big hurt been removed from someone else. Those nights & days I wouldn't say that that was god directlie to me but more a guide or something something powerful but not god itself. Also one last question is god an individuel thing for you....or are you saying god is a type of energy and would thir be a hierarkie to that energie?

thir we go i have expressed that as best i could and its not from a position of not believing it can happen or not believing you...i just want to be accurate on what you think is going on?

I hope that's clear and not offensive to anyone and i can't wait until tomorrow to hear what you all ALL got to say about it , cool

Wow, Celtic. Amazing questions. And probably as many answers as there are readers here. IMO, I think there are lots of things that hinder our ability to hear God...all of what you've suggested...religious background, self-esteem, fear (on so many levels, including fear of responsibility - fear of being wrong and unintentionally hurting others with what we think we've heard)...for me, there are very clear moments when there's no doubt that it's God, there are others when it's very clear that it's my own ego or self-destructive tendencies that are speaking...and then there are the in-between moments when it's not clear who is speaking. What I know for me is that I've given God permission to do whatever it takes, whatever He wants to get me to listen, and I believe that He prefers to use other people to get His messages across to me, perhaps because He knows that that's my greatest fear and weakness, trusting other people. Again, for me and my journey, it's all about love, learning to love others and learning to allow others to love me...so it makes sense that He prefers to use people to get that particular message through to my mistrusting little brain! LOL.

One other way that He has used to really break through with vital message is through dreams. Dreams have often brought the answer I've searched for, or direction, or comfort or clear glimpses of Him and His yearning for relationship. Those are precious treasures that remain as vivid today as they were when I first dreamed them.

I still believe that God will use whatever, whomever He knows will best get through to us. I know it's Him when whatever/whomever it is breaks through my darkness and pain and brings light, comfort and evolution.

This has been posted here before...it just seems to fit this thread:

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God.

Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We are all meant to shine, as children do.
We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

(The above speech by Nelson Mandela was orignally written by Marianne Williamson)

And shine you do! I am certain that God speaks through others!
He has used all of you to speak to me! God, I thank you!

thanks for putting up the poem again, it dose fit grand here. I also pop back in for others who need time to read or just think what to answer if they will . So if others come along then still think about it as it still be read in time.

it makes sense to me that you'd here god the way he could be heard by the individual but also in a way that stretches you, like what you saying eagle about trusting people ...then it makes sense for you because of your circumstance.

I know for whatever reason i hear more Canadians but especially Americans saying they here god than us scots and uk ones and i think that's cultural, cultural we more licklie to say its a guide or someone than actually god. So i will also keep that in mind too. You do here people saying a lot that god works throw them quicker than you heer them say i heard god. The first statement is a bit evasive and doesn't mention who gave the message for the work to be done...

So i guess i be giving some thought to my own circumstances and what areas may i not be ...or needing to be stretched 0r challenged within myself, i know i more comfortable saying oh that so and so , crystal who is 50 and providing more evidence of who they were so thir kids recognises them...telling (someones mum) to help their child until the child has enough evidense to know its thir mum and everything else that implies, afterlife, consciousness in after world etc.

I know some people do believe in god whole hartedlly but not the fact we have another life to go to. I also know i had enough evidence of my own that if i have chosen the wrong person as in the living person (child lol adult child mind you) for a message then its a mistake from my part and not theirs no afterlife or i am wrong or have lost it whatever that it is or ever was. So i give it all some more thought then as many time i been pussled by this very question but i never explane it right and people normale tell me the god is love question....and thats as far as we get lol when thats the first part but only the first part with the rest being more complex for me to explane in order to get the question answered.

more thinking to do oh and any more thoughts then jump in again eagle don't confine yourself to just one chance at answering this type of question more may be needed if ya think of more lol

Eagle, when I picture you, I picture a loving person. Amen!

celtic, again, your questions make me think. Love it.

There are times I hear directly from God, which I refer to as the Holy Spirit, God with us.

Other times I hear God's voice through family, friends, strangers, women at BWS, etc.

I have not always heard God speak to me. In fact, I don't think I ever did until I chose to draw nearer to Him. Prior to that, I tuned Him out so I didn't even think about listening to Him.

Something that helps tremendously is opening ourselves to His voice and intentionally listening for it.

It also helps if we tell Him that we want to hear from Him, then be still and listen.

I may have a couple studies for you if you are interested. But only if you are interested! Happy to help you get a clearer picture if you'd like. Just post here and I'll go searching for you.

great Dotsie fi you have a couple studies then i be delighted to read them.

thinking about the holy spirit distinction makes sense and i always forget about the 3rd part of the trinity when its an excellent example of how to make that direct link to god...
god as in, direct voice god talking, being the holy spirit. For me I'd be thinking more that that is my holy spirit or the part of me or MY spirit that is holy ...and that must hear god (being part of god itself, that is holy) then hearing that part of ME could be like listening to the part of me that directly hears god but being the much smarter god centred bit, still an achievement but still a part of me.

Somehow listening to that part of me is acceptable and achievable for me because it is simply finding that other part of me.

It still being different from a guide or guardian angel because it is the other part of me, but that part could also talk to a much purer part of god.

see i always saw an hierarchies and think that comes from my birth religion, not all of it bad in its explin3etry about god and hers an example of it not being bad in explication. For me the hierarchy is about bigger or more pure drops of god being up the ladder in terms of hierarchy. so it go like this within my holy spirit theirs the same essence that is god in its purest form. But its just a drop of pure form. Within another really holy person on earth they have cultivated that same pure drop to be a bigger drop by good needs, direct communication guiding their life so that one pure drop become the size of several pure drops.

For higher being already on the other side their pure drops are even bigger and can inform or instruct my original wee pure drop, which talks to me if i listen.

their, i have just mentally placed that bit together to allow for the hierarchy on earth and also beyond life but can include the humane being communicating directly with itself and itself as god fragment.

dotsie you mentioned it but also for the others on topic of inviting this into your life

i do also believe you have to invite that amount of energy to come work with you too and it be a commitment to it as it makes to you.

heers a wee storie about working with others but eventualie working with myself and others for a spacific task to be done as i thought it at the time.

Id meditative before or now and hear my voice...but their be a time when my voiced would be joned with another in helping via my paid work, the flavour of that other would change according to what i was doing or what specifically needed done, ie working in a school with kids and thir best friend hung themselves over drug withdrawal. I was awake most of that previous night before visiting thir school thinking about drug suicides and not knowing why apart from being smart enough to promise to mention it next day...so i got some peace for the rest of the night. when i mentioned it and reaction i got next day then the priviouse night be obviouse why my sleep been disturbed and why it was important i start a domino effect by mentioning the drug suicides.

More relevant to this chat third be a much bigger part of me talking to another part of something else, and the idea of that freaked me because i needed to express the change to someone, but dint know how to. How could i explane it as being different without sounding conceited or arrogant or just plain bonkers. But i had to directly express this change to someone. Also i not necessary Christian but half of those times it felt Christ like in energy. I not talking about talking to Christ themselves but it felt Christ like and was causing me some conflict or confusion, i just rember feeling and trusting the energies, while forming my idea of what it was like as an energy and extensively testing it before being sure weather to trust it. I just do that for good reason before giving over my trust to it fully. we had been conversing for quite awhile too.

I now trying to rember how that relationship was broken up, think i wasn't ready for it and i had made a commitment to another physical person and they needed me to be very physically present and growned so it felt like i wasn't ready. I was also wondering wear it was leading and the leading frightened me.

I was told id be asked to work one sertine way by some physical people one day and i thought this was part of it and i wasn't ready to take that work commitment on. So though be clear and don't wast this energy time as i though they be important and have more joy elsewhere if they'd be looking to work a certine way.
its complicated but it comes back to point of being its necassary to ask then to work hard and have an an intension or commitment to what happens while its happening and developing.

It didn't occur to me to just wate and let the bigger energy chat away without thinking it was about working only. I though it had to be their for more than me, or more than my use....and now i aint sure why i myself wouldn't be enough, that my learning alone would't be enough to keep having this other keep talking to me.

Gals, I'm not a 'huggy' person, not at all... but as I was catching up on this thread, reading new posts, I felt this tugging urge to hug you all. Special hugs for Jose and Celtic - I needed something from both of you tonight. Won't go into it, here, but just know that you helped me.
Eagle, you and I think so much alike, sometimes I think we're ESP'g, and sometimes I wonder if we've lived parallel lives (outside of family structure). It's as if we've talked everything over - discussed everything to determine what we believe, feel... it's someimes very eerie. One thing, tho, I want you out of the darkness... out from under that cloud so your light can shine even more --- not that it's not blinding as it is. (((hugs)))
Jabber, wish you were my sister... been trying to think of a way to trade one of mine for you.
I want to say something to everyone of you --- but it would take FOREVER, and I'd (to use celtic's word) "bleather" away... not that I don't, already !!! lol... just know that I love you all!

About God speaking to us... I say, Ask him to!, as in:
"Dear God, I love you and want to hear FROM you. Speak to me, please."
How could he refuse?
Then be still and listen - feel - believe. Don't let anything distract you.
AND/BUT don't be surprised (if you try this sincerely and expectantly - believing it possible), when you break down sobbing tears of glorious joy. He loves you, he truly does.

Celt: You found the distinction in your later post: the unravelling from moral intuition to spiritual intuition.

gims,
I do ask Him [God] to speak to me. And I pray often throughout the day. I'm trying to draw closer to God. And I will keep at it until I succeed. I have lots of God given perseverance!

The path to what we feel individually is walked in a unique personal way.
Where and how we are reared and nurtured.What faith if any a person absorbs.The personality and behaviour of those who nurture us.The type of education and friends we encounter.

My Presbyterian church in Scotland will differ from a Thai person who is a Buddist ..but spiritually I may have similar values..
so when I gauge anyone who is not similar to me I accept "difference"My wish is that is how the other views me.
Indeed someone who sits beside me in church may be same faith but spiritually different.
A student of philosophy or pyscology will have had windows opened that may add or detract to their prior faith...cause interal questions...I call this personal growth...
Its my belief we are all at stages all of the time..when I encounter someone and we engage in any way I see it as an opportunity and aim to be congrugent in my dealings.
If ever someone is out of order first I examine how I am acting myself...
I listen carefully oftimes hearing what others dont..then find out I was correct in my first impression.Chatterbox people who always have something to say on any matter often have little to contribute are often working out complex issues for themselves..never picking up the chance to gain by just "being"The chance to grow and evole is lost and not heard due to the over use of their words.

I LOVE quiet people who have often much to offer when they do open up.
There is a bit of me in everyone I meet and a bit of them in me..I believe that is God given.

MA,
I find lots of wisdom in your post. And I truly believe there
is a little of God in all of us, too. And "The Believer" has
a great deal more than the non believer! IMO...

MA always has lots of wisdom in her posts. I love reading them.

For me there is a little bit of God but accept that in a different culture/belief system another way of believing exists

I sit comfortably with people who respect mankind .The world is a vast place with many mindsets.

I agree MA. One of the things I most love about my journey is how many spiritual tidbits I've picked up along the way. My road has taken me to so many different mindsets and belief systems, all of which have had a good impact on my soul and opened the eyes of my heart to see just how vast our ability is to create and recreate sacred places. One of the lessons I most cherish learning is that everything and everywhere and everyone is a sacred place - when we have the eyes to see Presence "even here", nothing is exempt, and nothing is beyond His reach - or beyond redemption (that, IMO, is the Good News).

Many of my tidbits are stored from my childhood.Given freely from family and teachers.Then somewhere all the way they re appear in another form.Sometimes wrapped up in academic text..some things I hear in sermons from my minister and can hear them anew
with adult ears then discuss later .
Nature...tells me much..as do cherished authors and often a child has opened my eyes..their simplist innocence speaking their truth.
You Eagle...I respect your presence.

i messed up my last post can't retrive it.

i was agreeing about nature and childreen being a great calling card for god. I was contrasting this with the crimes of two boys 9 and 7 over last lot of weeks. basicalie they attaked two other boys aiming to get themselfs put in prison. The attake was prolonged sexule and excessivlie violent in its durasion of few hours.

It hurts more when it youngsters that are so blowen off course from who they are in this world. Whomever failed those kids, well all 4 kids but directly failed the violent kids by creating monsters have a lot to answered for. When its adults doing these crimes its bad enough but we're hardened to this type of stuff when its kids doing it its harder to dismiss or accumulate the degree of harm done.

yet it the two kids that are victims that need praying for, then its the two child perpetrates that needs praying for, then their parents and so on down the line.


when we all fail the kids of our country this much we all take a slice of the blame. I hope it can be made better for all kids involved but the generations that still grow up thrown those bitter foundations to life and not come out with a twist in their souls.


i miss the usual and best places to find god when it goes wrong because its were we most expect to find him

celtic, this is also happening in the US; crimes by younger children. I, like you, can only think about how we have fialed these kids as a society. How can children of such young ages be so hateful?

Mountain, a minister once taught me to look for the God in everyone. Even though I was taught as a child, that we are all created in His image, the minister's words at an older age, spoke to me. Ever since, I try to look for the good in everyone. It's there. We just have to find it.

I join gims in thanking and loving all who have posted here. Hearing us express our faith is a lovely thing! We have so much to learn from one another.

celtic, I'm posting from the couch while watching the US Open tennis with Ross. I'll give you some studies when I'm posting from my office. Promise!

Thank you so much for your kind words, Eagle......

I, too, have a wall filled with hanging pictures which faces the library. Every time I pass by the "picture wall," I notice that the picture of my two sisters is crooked. Of about 25 pictures, it is the only picture which leans whenever I pass it.

I believe it is Ronnie & Ellie saying "Hi Josie. We're just letting you know we are here for you." So I straighten out the frame, say hi back, and pass by. It makes me feel like they are watching over me.

57 year old actor-dancer Patrick Swayze passed on last night, leaving his beloved childhood sweetheart & wife of 34 years behind. Some of us are reminded that in the movie "Ghosts," the last thing Patrick's character said to "Molly" before he left this earth went something like, "Love. It's the one thing you can take with you when you die."

I believe that. I know my sisters have my love with them, and I have the memory of their love to sustain me until we meet again soon.

What a re-union it will be for all of us to be together again. Until that time, God still has plans for me here. Sometimes I wish He would hurry up and call me home, but then, I think who am I to tell Him what to do.

Not MY will but THY will be done, Lord. Got it! lol

The same thing with my wall! The entire wall is covered with framed photos, all sizes and shapes, but out of the 50+ pictures hanging there, the only one that's always crooked (despite many attempts to fix, including changing the frame) is Gary's picture. How curious...and heart-thrilling!

I really believe they find ways to reach out and continue sharing that love with us...I've read many near-death experiences and so many of those people say the same sort of thing, that everyone they meet in heaven is rooting for us with more love than we could ever imagine.

WOW! So Gary says "hi" the same way my sisters do! How lucky we are they can find a way to touch our hearts, that we can physically see and feel.

Thank you Lord, for this special gift.