Early Saturday, well around midnight Friday night, I got up to go to the bathroom...I had such severe vertigo, I couldn't walk. I sat back down on the bed, waited for it to ease off, then tried again. Managed to go, but when I stood up again I was so dizzy I almost fell into the bathtub. I ended up being in bed for most of the day yesterday, unable to stand. And in bed, I could only lie on one side. Any movement rendered me so dizzy and nauseous, it was unbearable. I took Gravol and that helped, and Pepto Bismal for the queasiness, and by mid-afternoon I could get up and sit on the couch, but not much more. I tried to get on the computer, but after 10 minutes was too dizzy to even walk back up the stairs.

Today it's a little better. I even went outside this morning, hoping the fresh air would help. We did our errands, but by noon I was feeling so unwell we had to come home.

I'm not feeling sick, ie, it's not a cold, and I don't think it's the flu. I have no other aches, pains or trouble anywhere that seem related. I can barely function...I feel as if I'm adrift in a rowboat on a stormy ocean, very motion-sick at the slightest movement. I'm heading to bed now, but know I won't be able to sleep without another Gravol, because this vertigo even wakes me up from deep sleep.

I can't fathom what it is. It's miserable...I wouldn't mind it so much if I actually WAS on a cruise ship out on the ocean, but this isn't the least bit fun! Actually, it's a little frightening. I've never experienced this severity of vertigo before, even on a cruise.

I used to be dizzy constantly -- though not as severely as what you describe -- and finally a doctor diagnosed me with adrenal fatigue. I changed my diet completely and haven't had it since.

DJ, I've been sitting here reading everything I can find on Adrenal Fatigue, and OMG, it's 100% me! Every word, every symptom, even many of the causes describe what I'm living and have been living since April 2007. There is an ongoing situation in our lives that is intolerably stressful, and I have quite literally been living on an emotional roller coaster for so long that I cannot remember what it was like to feel any sense of stability. I try so hard to stay calm, and to find ways to ground myself, but it's very hard when this situation impacts us to some degree on a daily basis and at heart-wrenching degrees on a regular basis. There are some days when I wonder how much more I can take.

Can I ask what dietary changes you've made?

Eagle, I'm sure DJ will be back to share.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll share again because it might help. I went through a dizzy bout and with the help of a bolld test, it showed that I was dehydrated. It was that simple. Drink more. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this cures you?

Another thought is to have your potassium level checked. I recall Mom being terribly dizzy. She needed potassioum badly.

Feel better! Thinking of you.

I finally called the doctor's office this morning. She didn't have an opening until Dec 29. Well, I said a little prayer that if this needed quicker attention, things would work out. When we returned from the grocery store, we noticed that the doctor's office had called back. She had a cancellation tomorrow and wondered if I could come in then! So hopefully we'll get some blood tests done and find out what this is about.

I wouldn't be surprised if my potassium's low. As for dehydration, I drink water constantly. By this time of the day, for example, I've had about 5 full glasses. I'm always thirsty, constantly drinking water - then constantly leaking it back out again! (and my blood sugar is perfect, so it's not that).

Anyway, it was a relief to get that appointment so soon. I'm barely functioning here.

You think it could be an inner ear infection Eagle? Keep us posted.

Eagleheart, it is strongly suggested that you obtain an opinion from ear, nose and throat specialist. They would be in a better position to deal with inner ear problems.

It is our inner ears that control our sense of balance. I did have 2 episodes of vertigo, very temporary and isolated a few years ago.

lst episode was about 2.5 yrs. ago while I was biking slowly. It was not a hot day. I had only biked half hr. before on flats. Suddenly I felt a little dizzy. So I dismounted and walked bike for a few min. Then I was ok.

Next episode was about 3 months later. I was quietly working in front of the computer during day at home. Then suddenly the room spun and my whole vision could not focus. I got naseous and felt so dizzy that I could not open my eyes, much less, ...crawl to the living rm. So my partner lifted me from den to living rm. and put me on the couch. Where I laid there with eyes closed for the next 4 hrs.

Then I was ok. Before then I could not sit up, stand up nor go anywhere. I could not attend an art class that afternoon. I did get tested for any abnormalities in my ear at a audio testing clinic where they did extensive testing for 3 hrs. This is at a teaching /research hospital in a major city.

Though no cause has been determined since then, it has raised my level of awareness that I do ...be grateful for my sense of balance.

One of my sisters who is 47 is currrently experiencing mild vertigo, off and on for past few months, where she finds she walks more slowly. I think it makes her more afraid to try any form of exercise. Not sure what the status is now. Like me she does not drive.

EagleH, being in Ottawa you should be able to get your ears/hearing tested via family dr.'s referral.

Thanks Orchid (and Chick). My Dad suffered from inner ear problems most of his life. He always assumed it was because he had broken his ear drum when he was young. He suffered a lot on windy days, because the wind would affect his equilibrium so much that he would become too dizzy to walk or stay outside even to rake or garden. It got worse as he got older. I sure hope it wasn't something hereditary.

My doctor will probably refer me to an ENT, but I also want her to check out this adrenal fatigue thing, since it encompasses so much of what's been plaguing me for months now. One of the problems with having chronic depression (dysthemia) is that the doctor (and I do it too) tend to blame everything on that and we don't bother investigating any further. But this time I think we'll check it all out just to be sure.

Eagle,
I did all those tests too -- the ENT, increased my potassium by eating bananas, increased my water intake. I even had a dizziness test which is a horrible horrible experience. Because your balance has to do with the coordination between ears and eyes, they somehow connect your eyesight to a computer and squirt water into your ear. OMG it's sickening! They found nothing wrong. I think I only let them do it to one ear -- it was sooo awful.

I personally have made drastic dietary changes, but not just for adrenal fatigue. Most people wouldn't go so far, and probably don't have to.

One simple test you can do by yourself is shine a light into your eyes and remove it and see how quickly your pupils dilate. With adrenal fatigue, your pupils are more sluggish.

Anyway, I can tell you the most important lessons that my doc wanted me to do:
eat more protein, and do so frequently, like between meals. She told me to eat at like 10 a.m. and 2 or 3 p.m., and to have nuts and cheese. Warning: it's fattening, but it made the first big difference.

I was diagnosed 7 years ago and after a very little while, didn't feel dizzy.
My kids always thought it was hilarious how dizzy I was -- I mean, if they even touched the chair I was sitting in, I got dizzy.

Over the years, I've done a lot of reading about this and there seems to be some rather cutting edge medical science going on. For me, it turned out I was sensitive to manh of the foods I love and ate all the time, and it's a strange assortment -- celery, cane sugar, cow milk, eggs, kidney beans, black pepper are the worst so I pretty much avoid them. They say that when you eat something you're allergic to, your body doesn't process it so it escapes through the stomach walls and into the blood stream, your immune system attacks it as foreign substances, which stimulates your adrenal glands to produce cortisol in response to the stress.

Other kinds of stress can have the same effect.

Another important thing I learned about food is to vary it -- i.e., if you love something, it's oaky to have it 3 days in a row, but then give it a rest for a day or so. I used to eat celery in my salad every single day, and put black pepper on everything, and had a terrible sweet tooth. I still eat sugary things occasionally, but not cane sugar. I've switched to goat cheese and goat yogurt.

Other dietary changes I've made for other reasons are that I eat organic as much as possible.

I can only say some prayers for you Eagle that they find and fix whatever ails you. Oh one good thing is if its the need of more potassium, thats an easy one, and bananas are so tasty too.

Eagle, I hope they can fix this for you. There is a condition called benign positional vertigo, which means that the position of your head causes vertigo. My Mom had it and I had it last year. It was awful. It's caused by the little 'stones' in the fluid in the ear canal. Mine went away by itself, but it can be fixed by manipulation of the head to re-position the stones. I was fine unless I tilted my head just a little in any direction. Horrible feeling! Here's hoping it's fixed soon.

Thanks for the info, DJ. Lots to digest there (pun intended, LOL).

It's interesting to note what your doc said about eating more protein in-between meals. Several years ago, I began doing that because of chronic fatigue. The protein helped a lot, provided good, sustainable energy. And I've pretty much kept up that protein-rich diet, until our recent trip to Europe. We were traveling and unable to eat regular meals, and I got out of the habit of eating between meals. Because it was helping my waistline, I've been maintaining THAT regime since we got home. And it's been since then that the fatigue has become so debilitating...my entire system has gone haywire.

So I started adding those protein snacks back into my diet a few days ago. But that's also when the vertigo started. But I have no idea what's connected to what anymore. Hubby's very worried. He says I'm "not looking well" (pale, weak, lethargic).

I had to laugh about you getting dizzy if anyone even touched your chair. All of my life, I've gotten motion sick if anyone rocked my chair in any way. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone else say the same thing.

Thank you Chatty and Yonuh. Chatty, I do need to eat more bananas, and there's no excuse, we always have them in the fruit basket.

Yonuh, I've heard about the crystals in the ear canal. Did you actually feel them there, or did you just know because of the vertigo? I'd suspect something like that if I didn't also feel so washed out.

Our bodies are so complex and everything is interconnected, it's difficult to know what's affecting what.

"I had to laugh about you getting dizzy if anyone even touched your chair. All of my life, I've gotten motion sick if anyone rocked my chair in any way. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone else say the same thing." Anyone who knows me knows that I can't sit still unless I'm in a rocking chair, yet I have to be in control of the motion. I've heard of the phrase "adrenals are depleted" and that was in the case of someone who also had a history of chronic fatique syndrome as well as depression. EH, I'm sure it is scary to be that dizzy.

EH
I too have never heard of anyone getting motion sick when their chair was touched! It makes me feel much better, in an odd way, to think I'm not the only one.

I think it's one of those symptoms that in the old days made doctors think women were hypochondriacs, so I only asked doctors in passing. They never had a clue to what it was about. My adult kids still like to mock me about it (such dears) by saying "stop touching my chair, you're making me dizzy!" which they heard so often.

Once in fact, I was at a movie theater -- of course, the seats in those old theaters were all connected in the row. All the movement of all the people in the row was so distracting I had to leave my companions and move waaaay over to the rh side of the theater, where I had to crane my neck to see the film but at least I wasn't made dizzy. I don't know what I told my companions but I'm sure they thought I was nuts.

EH, maybe the stress of your trip aggravated the dizziness. That used to happen to me after flying long distances.

From what I gather, the adrenal symptoms are sort of the first in the line of defense, after which comes thyroid, and possibly more endocrine system symptoms. The endocrine is the least understood system -- If I were to enter medicine, I'd study it.

Of course everyone is different. EH, when you say "it's hard to know what's affecting what" -- I actually have become so disciplined about what I'm eating, that I can practically tell you the effect on my body of everything I eat. Most people don't believe me, except my husband, because I can also predict to him what will happen if he eats certain things. I predict that future doctors will be able to give us each individual profiles about our specific body chemistry and what we each need to do to stay in equilibrium. And then, as they used to say about Chinese medicine, we'll pay doctors to keep us healthy but not when we get sick.

Well, the doctor did exactly as I expected, chalked it all down to depression and prescribed an anti-depressant (cipralex) which she tells me is also good for anxiety. So we'll see how that goes. She's also sending all the paperwork to get me into an anxiety support group, which would be wonderful, but there's about a 3-month waiting list.

I'm also going to read as much as possible on this adrenal fatigue and see how much I can do on my own (diet, exercise, etc).

DJ, do you take a multi-vitamin? I can't tolerate them very well, but now there are so many options out there that maybe it would be easier to find a more compatible one.

Hi EH, well, I am no DR so I don't get the connection between depression and vertigo. It's my understanding that you have not been on an anti depressant since that awful withdrawal episode. Maybe depression suppresses the adrenal glands from pumping the needed hormones properly? Have we talked about fibromyalgia? funny, I can't tolerate multi vitamins either, but when I was on chemo, I had a script for the pre natal vitamins, and that worked without causing any more nausea than usual. What ELSE did the DR say? How did you feel about the comments from the DR?

EH
Are you anxious and depressed? Or is that the doctor not knowing what to say?

I don't take a multi -- they make me sick too.
I take glucosamine, Osteoprime (calcium with D and other minerals), Schizandra, which is an herb that supports the adrenals and I get it from the health food store. And I eat lots of organic veggies, and not too much fruit.

I also take these two supplmements from a place in Wisconsin called Standard Process: Dessicated adrenal and pneumotrophin (which clears out my lungs because I've had some bad allergic asthma, but it's mostly cleared up).

There's a pharmacy around here that sells the dessicated adrenals -- they're quite effective. Also the chiropractor sells them.

Get this: a few years ago my husband's hair turned white and his eyebrows and even eyelashes fell out. He went to dermatologists, allergists, endocrinologists, general practitioners, hairdressers and others. They treated his thyroid for months, but the hair kept falling out. No one could figure it out. Poor man was starting to look like a cueball. His hair was snowy white, and fine, like an old woman's. It was freaky. We know an unusual woman who is a medical intuitive who told him to try the dessicated adrenals and guess what? -- his hair grew back in BLACK, healthy and thick. The hairdresser can't believe it and she's now telling all her clients who are losing their hair (she even has a guy in his 20s whose hair is flaling out in clumps, and a young woman, same thing). Everyone thinks my husband has been dying his hair. He had been having a great deal of emotional stress due to the deaths of those who he'd be very close to.

The dessicated adrenal pills only cost about $10 a bottle. I only take a half pill every few days -- they keep me awake at night otherwise. They give me energy too. My doctor had prescribed pregnenolone and DHEA which I took for the first few months after diagnosis. These probably work as well if not better.

I think fibromyalgia is related, but is a later stage.

DJ,
Thank you so much for your comments. They're very helpful and calming.

I had to repost another reply...

Princess, I was actually very disheartened after the doctor's visit. My husband came in the room with me, to make sure that I didn't minimize what's been going on. Even he was shocked that she did nothing...no blood pressure, no blood tests, nothing, especially after the severity of some of the symptoms over the past few days. Maybe she'll do it next visit (the 30th) after I've taken these AD's for 2 weeks. She was crazy-busy, and had fit me into an already tight schedule.

Anyway, it's always disheartening when everything gets automatically brushed aside under the depression label. It's one of the more silent stigmas to depression/mental illness, that once you get labelled, that's all there is to you as far as they're concerned.

I'm too tired to argue and will just go along with the AD for now. I'm sure it will help, because I have been spiralling for awhile, though I still think that this time the depression is actually a symptom of a bigger issue, a reaction to feeling so unwell for so long and becoming increasingly debilitated...no matter how depressed I've ever been, it's never manifested itself so physiologically like this before.

DJ, I had to re-post a response because I couldn't see your post while replying.

I'm definitely anxious. The anxiety has gotten way out of control. I can't answer the phone, can't make phone calls, can't go outside unless I'm with my husband (though if he takes me out somewhere, he can drop me off and I'm fine and can walk home with no problem - but just getting out my front door alone is a baffling and debilitating issue). So yes, I need help with the anxiety. And taking this AD might be the first step.

The dessicated adrenal sounds intriguing. The AD will take a few weeks to make any difference, but if some of these other problems persist, I'll look into adding it.

We eat a lot of fresh veggies here. Hubby eats a lot of fruit, but I can't tolerate too much. I feel much better snacking on proteins than fruit. And I have to have red meat every so often...even hubby can tell now when it's time to have a steak for supper. But my appetite has gone way down lately.

Thank you so much for sharing all of this, DJ. You've given me a lot of great information that may help turn this around for me.

EagleH, I did get my ENT specialist referral from a family doctor. ENT then referred me to the hearing testing clinic where extensive testing was done as explained earlier.

I also told my sister, who is a family doctor. She supported 100% of the specialists who were recommended to me to visit. She was very glad I was tested by..the right sources.

Just this past weekend, I met up with a bunch of cyclists. One of them an active 70+ grandmother who still cycles. She was recovering from eye surgery. She had an isolated incident of vertigo. So she did see an ENT, he had her do some simple head movements...to move the crystal in the ears ...and then she was.....fine. This woman used to be a full-time nurse..so somebody already body-aware..

Support group means this:

http://www.balanceanddizziness.org/resources-speakers/index.html

In Toronto
• Toronto, ON
Co-leaders: Heather DesRoches, RN; Don Lynch
Meniere's Support Group
The Toronto Hospital EN7-209
200 Elizabeth St.
7 Eaton 213
Toronto, ON M5G 2C4
(416) 340-3665
Fax: (416) 340-3745
e-mail: heather.desroches@uhn.on.ca
meeting location: 30 Gloucester St.

Meniere's is a more severe, long-term condition. However this hospital ..is a large teaching, research hospital in downtown Toronto. A teaching hospital usually means the physicians must be on top of the latest developments in their speciality areas so that they can do research and teach....medical students/intersn.

Do seriously send an email to them and ask if they can recommend a contact in Ottawa. You simply need to be pointed in the right direction.

I have experienced dizziness from lack of proper food energy sources...only under highly active cycling situations and high hot humid summers...100% humidity, 35 degrees C and cycling for 45 kms. with only some bread and water for breakfast after a hot night of camping...let's see that was in Kingston, Ontario. On highway 401... Yes, really...lightning storm was also booming in distance. Needless to say, way too much stimuli going on then. Yes, I nearly fell off the bike when world turned abit too grey/black for me, before I stopped at a donut shop.

My intuition tells me powerfully, it's highly doubtful your diet has been completely out of whack. There's something very solid about you EH, that at the very least, you would feed yourself right.

I have every confidence in you EH. The only difference between you and my sister, is my sister with the temporary balance problems, lives alone and has to manage her house.

And EH this is a group of healthy, active women who did experience vertigo temporarily. Several of these women are over 40..and closer to my age ..close to 50.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=20136&highlight=vertigo

Orchid, those conditions wold make me dizzy even not on a bike! Bread and water for breakfast by itself would send my head into a spin.

I was wondering whether Canada has been infected by the pharma industry that dominates US medicine? My husband has been seeing a really good allergist for his asthma...but then realized that the medication he was taking was making his asthma worse.

But I digress.
EH, I think you're right, that your feeling of depression might be a symptom of something else. Check out this link my sister found. It's mostly a critique of a health industry dominated by pharmaceutical companies:

http://phmiraclechanges.blogspot.com/search?q=blood+pressure

Another thing you might explore is intestinal candida. It's related to many symtoms, including dizziness, depression, slurring of speech (? -- I don't know how they figured out that one) and biting your tongue! I also treated candida and occasionally do detoxes.

For ten years I taught in an outpatient center for adults with severe mental illnesses, including depression. We had a discussion once about how it was better to say "I have mental illness" rather than "I am mentally ill" to separate oneself from the condition." I have depression today," rather than "I am depressed" can make a difference in one's outlook.




It talks about the dominant approach of medicine to treat sysmptoms rather than root causes.

DJ, I read that article at the link. It was an interesting perspective, but a little too simplistic in places. For example, to say that the cure-all for clinical depression is simply more sunlight is just too misleading. I spent 6 weeks in Cuba last year, sitting out in the sun for most of the time, and I cried through most of that 6 weeks. Though to be fair, it was the first-year anniversary of my brother's death. Still, after all I've experienced first-hand and studied over the years, I'm more inclined to believe that there's no such thing as a cure-all, or one cause or one answer for everybody who suffers from depression. For some it really is a chemical imbalance (eg, seratonin deficiency) and all the sunlight/diet/exercise in the world won't help until the underlying imbalance is corrected. For others, relief will only come through lifestyle changes. But that's what makes something like depression such an easy target for stigmatizing and misunderstanding, because it's so difficult to isolate "THE" definitive problem and then treat it with a cure-all, like they can with diabetes or other more scientifically-measureable diseases.

But I do agree that much of our suffering and dis-ease comes from lifestyle choices. That can be borne out when you study different cultures and see how much healthier they are when you strip away the processed foods and sedentary lifestyle.

And, too, we're a product of our environment. Victims of abuse
for example have an uphill battle to overcome downtrodden
mood swings! IMO

Orchid, thanks for all of your research and information here. If the vertigo continues to be a problem, I'll insist on seeing an ENT (we have a good one just down the street). It's still there, but just on the fringes now. I had a good sleep last night, first one since Friday night.

The only thing about our diet is that we did get get way off during our trip to Europe in October. Our meal times were sporadic, supper was often very late at night and it was all pre-planned restaurant food (and often cold), so we had little control over the meal choices unless it was a buffet.

Since our return, I admit to eating more white foods than we have in years...breads, white flour, pastries (which we NEVER have in the house ordinarily)...and because of hubby's working schedule and my fatigue, we've often resorted to frozen dinners (ie, processed, additives and higher sodium). This is not our usual diet. We normally live on fresh veggies (the more colour the better) and lots of fish. We're getting back to our healthier choices, but it's highly possible that my body is rebelling against all the crap I've been feeding it since October. I read years ago in Northrup's Wisdom of Menopause that white foods are poison to the menopausal woman. my body is manifesting the truth of that!

Jabber, you're so right. I've read in many places (and I think that Princess Lenora has also researched and discussed this) that abuse, especially early childhood abuse, literally rewires us. Abusive environments skew the way we process life, and our psyches are forever impacted to some extent, depending on the severity/longevity of the abuse. In other words, we can feel that we are forever swimming against the tide because the abuse has broken our ability to see the world the same way as the majority of people around us. It takes long years of hard work to "rewire the attic" but I'm not sure that it's possible to completely erradicate the scars that abuse leaves on us. But I think we have to keep striving to believe in other possibilities for ourselves and hopefully weave our hard-won wisdom into ways to help others through their own rewiring journey.

Louise Hay touches all illness from a metapysical stance...and hard though it is to "Own" this I can see some merit...
great news is she gives affirmations.
the friend who introduced this to me said little apart from advising that I decide for myself...this I pass on.

When among people I listen to the language they use to describe their feeelings/symptoms...often there is a link.

Mountain ash

MA, I've been reading some of Louise Hay's thoughts, as well as a great deal about the Law of Attraction over the past while, and have worked diligently on changing focus/attitude/language. I believed in it, could see the merit, but have yet to succeed at it in my own life, and not for lack of trying and "doing" visualizations and positive thinking.

I think that there is an element of frustration and bafflement in the mix of my so-called depressive mood these days, because even after months of affirmations, gratitude and positive thinking, I'm still spiralling and cannot find my way out through these means alone. Maybe it's because there is an air of desperation in my diligence, rather than pure belief, and perhaps "the universe" responds to the underlying desperation/fear rather than the spoken desire and behaviours I'm changing in an effort to rise above.

At any rate, after reading all of these books and diligent efforts to improve, I still haven't figured out how to succeed or make this law of attraction work for me. I haven't given up, I just need interim help to stay healthy and safe while continuing to learn how to do it Hay's way.

Eagle
a long standing issue for me resolved by me firmly saying that there was no place nor need for the problem.Gestalt almost.
not following the "Secret" "Law of Attraction"nor Louises's writings .but my own power and actions.I am still working on the isssue which is medical but its as if I am in the world looking at the problem not inside looking out..
The books and beliefs are but aids ... the authors sent to help us but the true empowerment is within.its just beyond that place where we feel we have had enough...a bit like the labour before birthing..
wishing you peace.
Mountain ash

Dearest Eagle Heart

Boy, do I recognize this process! More than I will regale you with in this post. You said a couple of things that have been my own experience...1) not being able to find your way alone and 2) the "feel" that the universe is responding to the underlying fear.

I've found I couldn't do it alone...which is why I've worked with a variety of healing modalities over the years and with coaches/mentors. Those choices made a HUGE difference in my own success rate. Although I did a ton of work on my own, my greatest successes and ah has came when I worked with others to see what I wasn't able to because of my own blind spots.

As I've done my studies and research, I've found many tidbits of information on LOA ...and one of the ones that resonated most with me is that it is actually the Law of Resonance (the underlying emotion you mention) that determines the "success rate" of these approaches. A lot of materials don't go into this particular Law, nor do they, necessarily, lend a hand with the scripted voices/stories that seem to hang on as tenaciously as barnacles to the bottom of the docked boat!

I spent years trying to do things with my "brain power", affirmations, changed words, etc. and failing, miserably, spiraling into an ever deeper abyss of despair and self loathing. I later chose to combine modalities...I did take anti-depressants and worked with a spiritually based therapist and did a ton of work on my own. I've been on a 15 year journey ...and I know it would have been my preference to do it more quickly and it is what it is. And it is, and will be, a continuous journey, taken moment by moment. As you know (as do the other wonderful ladies on this forum), I have had my own challenges in a variety of ways, the latest of which was the drama with my hubby.

So you're not alone girl...and these factors are a huge part of what led me to become a coach/mentor/facilitator whatever you want to call it!

My passion is to help others walk through to the other side...please let me know how I can be of service. I'll do my best!

Mama, what a lovely, encouraging post for Eagle. Sometimes knowing others walk in your shoes, or have done so, is enough to lift our spirits.

Eagle, prayers for your peacefulness often run through my mind.

Mama Red, your post is indeed a much-needed validation and encouragement. I've read about the Law of Resonance, and have been trying to figure out how to fix/change/erradicate those "scripted voices/stories that seem to hang on as tenaciously as barnacles to the bottom of the docked boat!" (very apt description!) What it's ended up doing is increasing my fear, because I've gotten myself into a vicious cycle of diligently working to rewire myself and rewrite those scripts, then realizing over and over again that the underlying "resonance" is still one of despair and fear, and then slipping bit by bit into a sense of futility - and then starting all over again. Never moving ahead by more than one or two improved ways of thinking, which is progress, but not enough to improve my quality of living. But the fear now is that this underlying resonance will do irreparable damage before I figure out how to fix it, which is irrational but could be reactionary to so much loss in such a short time...now I know all too well how short life is and that every day that I don't figure this out is one day less to live the way I want to.

It ought to be easy to simply declare one's choice and then live it. I do that, I believe and live "as if", but still, always, that underlying resonance steals my peace and joy. The concern now is that it's beginning to manifest itself phsyiologically, which it hasn't done before.

But hubby is FINALLY aware, I mean fully aware, of the gravity of it. He's always been supportive at the basic level, but has not really understood nor been interested in understanding "depression" or how much fear and anxiety have debilitated me (and so much of that stems directly from an ongoing situation in his life that impacts both of us on a daily basis, but has devastated me in many irreparable ways).

Anyway, knowing what one needs and getting it are two different issues. I've been pleading with my doctor for a referral to this anxiety support group for well over a year now, but this is the first time that she's taken me seriously enough to promise to fill out the paperwork. It's my hope that once I'm in "the system", I'll be able to find a good spiritually-based therapist and other resources. The Canadian health system has a good reputation outside of Canada, but the reality is that it sucks big-time if you're on the outside trying to get in. Nothing works, nobody responds, nothing gets done without the support and referral power of the doctor. Even when I present my doctor with the research and contact numbers, she doesn't follow up. And it's impossible to find another doctor, we've tried.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on and on. I appreciate your post so much. It helps me to feel more empowered to continue searching for the way through.

Dearest Eagle Heart

Oh my goodness, talk about resonance, connection and knowing how much this affects you. I don't, in any way shape or form, wish to minimize what you are going through by parroting the words I "get it"...writing, without the voice behind it, can sometimes sound like a "me to" and I most certainly don't want that! I don't feel you're rambling on...at all.

In fact, after I wrote my previous post, I went to meditate and pray and your words were what were sounding off in my head.

I've heard of the challenges you're describing with the Canadian health system from others I've known from there. What gets my goat is that it is so much the same way here in the US...I can't begin to count the number of doctors and others (professionals and non-professionals) who blithely dismissed my fears, complaints, non-diagnosable s**t. Either they applied a generic label like "fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, IBS" and wrote me off as if it was all in my head or they applied a label such as depression with that condescending voice that makes me want to strike out and pummel them into the ground like so many pieces of dirt. Now there is a nice resonance to carry, eh? (Smile).

Most of the care I have received has not been covered by any kind of health system we have in the US...the folks who have helped me most have been outside the "system"...by choice since it would impede their healing modalities with so many rules and regs as to render them no longer able to help. And sometimes not by choice, since our care system doesn't recognize anything that isn't "of" the scientific "traditional" healing modalities most people in the West are familiar with.

I hear in your voice extreme frustration and I get it...all my reading and learning has said the same thing as Louise Hay...the physical is the result of the belief systems. AND, and this was important for me, especially when I collapsed last summer (8 weeks after getting married and it was one of the contributing factors to my almost-divorce at Thanksgiving) and simply couldn't go 1 step further, it took me finding someone to help with the physical (including antidepressants...a few years ago) to be able to apply those learnings and principles. I felt I was a horrible failure when I couldn't "even" heal myself like I "should" be able to!!!!!!!!! I mean geez, I'm supposed to be a smart woman, you would think I could at least do this. And that makes healing even harder...that blasted "should" destroys everything.

A few years ago my spiritual coach/therapist recommended antidepressants and I thought I would faint dead away...she was married to my chiropractor, did massage, past life regressions, and all sorts of other things that were outside my norm. And here she was recommending antidepressants!!!!!!!!

When I fought her on the recommendation, she reminded me in her oh-so-gentle way that we couldn't continue doing the emotional/spiritual work if my body was giving way. I had had 10 surgeries within a 5 year period (including a hysterectomy) and my body was seriously out of balance. She reminded me that a car won't run without fuel and my hormones were the equivalent of gasoline (petrol) for a car.

It took me until this fall to find someone to help with the physical aspects of where I am...my adrenals were shot and although my thyroid tests appeared normal to most docs, this guy wondered how I was even functioning. I collapsed in tears in his office, knowing I had found support.

And my hubbie was also like yours. He was kind and caring and doing his best AND the fear of what I was going through scared the bejeebers out of him. It took my full collapse for him to understand and the full awareness also wore him down...he wanted his happy joyful sexy wife and what I was going through wasn't what he, consciously, wanted. It is tough on both of you, I know, especially when you probably can't pinpoint, to his satisfaction, exactly WHAT has got you in a stranglehold grip.

Besides the MD, who started by building up my adrenals first, then adding thyroid support, I'm working with a person who uses a healing modality called Theta healing. I can't explain how it works and I know it does by how I feel. AND (this was big for me), I couldn't continue on without the physical support. I may, one day, be able to drop some of supplements and for now they are my friend and are providing a way to rebuild my seriously depleted system. Years and years and years of unremitting stressors, large and small, wear you down. Our systems really weren't build to handle running on a constant pattern of responding to fight-or-flight stimuli.

During my Theta healing sessions, I've learned a ton about where my scripts came from and how many of them are hardwired into my system.

Please sweet one, with a heart of gold for all, could you cut yourself some slack? I hear you (or at least I think I do based on the words you are sharing) taking yourself to task for not being able to "make" this LOA stuff work. You are reaching out, you are sharing and you are a wonderful being of Light.

There are many different healers who can work by phone...some who do so exclusively. That might provide another set of resources for you ...and I know you'll find a combination that is perfect for you. You will find the key to unlock what needs unlocking and transmute what isn't working into something positive for the world to see and learn from.

Know you are in my heart and in my prayers...

(speaking of rambling on!)

Eagle, I'm happy to hear about the possibility of a support group. Perhaps this can give you some renewed strength during the holidays.

I also hear your frustration with your health care. I didn't realize it was as you explained in Canada. Getting this wheelchair for Dad has been a real lesson in patience. I called again today, and I THINK it's now all squared away. It took three business days to do what could have been done in 10 minutes.

My MIL battled depression. She was a Christain and she actually had friends who thought that if she was a Christian she SHOULDN'T be depressed. How sad is that? Some people just don't get it. I think that unless one has experienced depression, they have no idea what living hell on earth can feel like.

Sending warm thoughts your way.

Hi Dotsie...and thank you! This is a story I didn't used to tell...'cuz, ya see, someone might not think I'm strong (and I'm supposed to be, right?)! It has taken me a while to get to the point to share and detach from what someone else might think, or not think. So I really appreciate your encouragement!

Mama, I don't know how to express my gratitude for your post. Your heartfelt sharing has touched my heart and I'm taking it all to prayer/meditation/heart.

Everyone's posts here are helping, like a giant jigsaw puzzle, and giving renewed strength and perseverance. I needed that! I can see that this isn't a quick-fix or a case where all of the puzzle pieces are just magically going to fit into place. I need to somehow overcome the medical red tape and gather more resources to make this happen.

Dotsie, I've endured the same sort of comments as your MIL...if you only had enough faith, you wouldn't be depressed...sometimes I do get a glimpse of how that could be true at a higher level of consciousness, that we've been provided with everything we need to regenerate ourselves. But the reality of day-to-day human life is that we are working with bodies that go haywire and break down. Some break down via diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, cancer...others break down via depression. Depression isn't caused by lack of faith and certainly isn't because of any lack of wanting to feel better. It's baffling, frustrating, debilitating and real.

Mama's right, I have to cut myself some slack and stop beating myself up for spiraling again. That happens with depression, it's not surprising given all that's happened in our lives over the past couple of years - and I've always known it was a possibility and have prepared myself with the roadmap and resources to get out, like previous times. I need to go back to focusing on "what is" and not on what's not, and just take this one day at a time.

The group will be a welcome resource. It probably won't have an opening until April, but we have Cuba to look forward to between now and then.

Mama, I was one of those people who once thought people could snap out of depression. Then God humbled me. I was in a car accident and suffered for over a year with shoulder pain. During that time I became clinically depressed. I took the dreaded anti-depressants which worked like a charm for me. Took the first bottle, didn't get the RX refilled because I'd been cured. Days later, I was back in the dumps. Back to the drugs.

Boy did I learn a lot that year. Now I have tremendous compassion for people who suffer from depression, and I know quite a few men and women, who I hope I've helped through the years, who also suffer. It ain't no picnic. That's for sure.

I'm sure your voice on this topic had helped many. Have you read Eagle's book?

Hi Dotsie...I'm with ya lady, I'm with ya! Until you go through it, you really don't know, do ya? Gives additional weight to the old saying "don't judge another until you walk a mile in their moccasins"!

I did the same thing with my Rx...stopped taking it and within a couple of weeks was staring at the inside of my favorite black hole. I did that several times (did I ever admit to my stubbornness..or tenacity) until my doc said "look, either take them for at least 1 year or don't go back on them...this is hurting your body!" I listened (finally).

And no, I haven't read her book...and I sincerely hope I have helped. I truly do.

Eagle Heart, precious lady, I'm sooooooooooo glad to hear you say that...it brought tears to my eyes. I wish I could reach through the wires and give you a big hug and tell you, in person, how proud of you I am and how honored I am to meet you.

Yes, please do remember to honor what you have done. And yes, depression does that to us, doesn't it? If you can find the teenieset, tiniest thing that worked for you, count it as a successful day.

While working at a Business Analyst job about a year ago, I had an opportunity to stay late and chat with a cubicle mate. I don't know how the conversation turned to depression...and it did. I was talking to a woman with a beautiful smile for everyone and the most encouraging words for all who crossed her path. Little did I know that she was what I call a 'functioning depressive'...she did that during the day, and shunted herself off to a blackened home every night.

As a natural coach, I tend to give assignments to folks and hers was to purchase a book we had discussed (Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting) and sit with the lights on in her house for 5 minutes. She agreed and when she returned on Monday she had done it...took me a bit of time to convince she had done well and when I did, she gleamed. So precious, ever so precious.

So if you put on socks, give yourself credit...get out of bed even for a few minutes, walk to the mailbox, smile without grimacing. Give yourself credit. It all counts honey, it all counts. And they are all steps that will help you on your journey. And they are all worthy of celebration!

Believe me, I practice this too...I'm grand at lifting others up and counting every step with joy and expecting absolute perfection from myself. One of the gifts of my adrenal collapse last year was teaching myself how to be nice to me. For weeks, I counted myself successful (at least that was the theory...I didn't always succeed...grin) if I made my husband's sandwiches and was out of bed for an hour!

Fortunately, I had a multi-person support term who served as accountability partners ... and when I forgot to celebrate my successes, they were there to do so and remind me to be as gentle to me as I was to them when they were walking a similar path.

This is going to sound like such a minor thing to most people here, but it's a small victory for me. Ever since Gary died, I've had a fairly severe phone phobia. Most days I cannot answer the phone or use the phone to make a call. I break out in a cold sweat, and get so nauseous I can barely breathe. It's been very frustrating, especially for hubby. But since most of the calls are work requests for him, and we have an answering machine, it hasn't been all that inconvenient, because it's better if those calls go to the machine anyway.

But tonight it rang, I knew the caller, and even though it was for hubby (he's out visiting neighbours), I suddenly decided to answer it, though it took me four rings to be able to do it. It was very uncomfortable, but I DID IT!

I'm SURE that it's a direct result of the encouragement and empowerment I've found through this thread.

OK, I'm jumping up and down, screaming for joy! And you listen to me girl, this is NOT A SMALL THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (And yup, I'm shouting!!!!)

THIS IS A HUGE THING. A GARANGATAN THING. A MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so proud of you and you only waited 4 rings? Wow....

Congratulations sweetie, congratulations, congratulations.

Eagle, I join in Mama's happy dance for you. It makes me want to pick up the phone and call!

One thing, one day at a time.

Whow knows what you will tackle today...

Thank you Mama and Dotsie. I'm blushing. Imagine dancing for joy over a 53-year-old answering the phone! Seems so silly. But as you say, one thing, one day at a time. After that phone call, the phone rang several more times and I couldn't answer it. But by then hubby was home. But all of the calls were for him anyway.

I'll make a resolution to answer the phone at least once a day from now on, unless hubby answers it first, which he usually does, on the first ring (he LOVES talking with people and enjoys answering the phone, so who am I to take that little pleasure away from him...) But seriously, I'm going to do it. Calling someone else is the bigger challenge. When I finally get up the nerve, my best girlfriend has to be the first one I call...she knows about my phobia and has been patiently waiting for that day. Maybe next week when I know she's off work.

Anyway, perhaps it's the placebo effect or maybe the AD's actually working, though at 5mg/day, that's questionable, but I'm feeling different/better. More stable. Sleeping straight through the night for three nights in a row (that hasn't happened in over 6 years), rolling out of bed without too much difficulty, not so jittery, no vertigo...I also started on a multi-vitamin this morning, so we'll just see how it goes. It's hard to ward off the stress of having a full house over Christmas, but I do feel slightly calmer. I think this thread has helped immensely.

Hi Eagle Heart...

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better...that is great news! I wish to apologize for my insensitivity on "pushing" using the phone to access resources. I didn't realize the situation with the phone and totally understand now why that wouldn't be an option for you.

My suggestion? Focus on the different/better and don't focus on the "why". I'm doing another happy dance for the improved sleeping pattern, no vertigo, not so jittery pieces. Those are the "things" you want, right? So now is the time you do what you can to focus on the "what I want" not the "what I don't want". That is one of the biggest things that I've found is tough to do and is a big piece of how I've been slowly, but surely, learning to do.

Continue on sweetie, continue on and PLEASE do let us know what you need...whether it is a happy dance or something else, you *get* to have what you need!

MA wrote: "The books and beliefs are but aids ... the authors sent to help us but the true empowerment is within." I'm glad you wrote that. It's what I believe as well. We humans take in and process in different ways: for some it is books, for others, maybe music. I do think that these books, music, whatever, are sent to help us, as tools. Thanks for a great comment, among so many others

EH, I'm so glad to hear that you took the step to reach over and answer the phone. It's not such a small thing. It is you being strong, getting healthy, growing every day.

Enjoy Christmas, EH ..with this new liberation.

Hi Princess

You are so right...each of us finds our "ah has", successes, learnings in a different way at a different time. I've read tons of books, listened to tons of recordings, attended many different events, heard all different types of music and I've seen this over and over again. What touches and connects to one person doesn't even enter another person's consciousness. Aren't we blessed there are so many ways to reach out and touch someone, knowing it will reach exactly the right person at exactly the right time.

And I sooooooooo forget that when I get in my poo poo pile about that sometimes!!!!!!!

Hi Everyone,

I am new here, this is my first post. I am trying to go through and read everything I can before I say anything...so bear with me.

I don't have any medical issues but I have a friend who does. She will not take my advice, which I feel pretty sure could help her because she says I am not a doctor. And she has a damn good point there. lol

But the problem is that she has lost almost 50 pounds in the last 4 months and I am very worried about her. She is 58, I'm 53, and her dr has diagnosed her with GERDS.

I did managed to convince her to stop taking Plavix but not before she completely lost her sense of taste. Has any1 ever heard of that before?

I know this is not normal - I just need to know if it is common among people who take Plavix.

SolarGoddess
http://health.6millionrich.com

Welcome aboard.

Sorry, but I don't have an answer. Hopefully soemone else will. Hang in there...

Fifty pounds in four months is incredible. I hope she's well. Is she trying to lose weight?

Welcome Solar Goddess.

I would say something's not right there. I've had GERD for years, and even at its worst it didn't have that effect on my weight. Last year while in Cuba, the GERD was particularly severe, and despite throwing up almost every day for a couple of weeks, I hardly lost any weight.

And I've never heard of the loss of taste except by smokers or mouth-specific problems (though constant vomiting may have an effect). But I'm no expert in any of this. What about a second opinion? Any other symptoms? Just a curious question: any noticeable swelling of lymph nodes, like in the neck/under armpits, etc)? I'd be interested in hearing other symptoms involved.

Welcome SG!

I looked up Plavix, and it's not for GERD, it's for blood clotting issues. I would not recommend someone stop that type of medication without a doctor's opinion.

"Plavix is used to prevent blood clots after a recent heart attack or stroke, and in people with certain disorders of the heart or blood vessels."

However I did find this story about mixing Plavix with Heartburn drugs, which she might be taking because of the GERD:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,450591,00.html?sPage=fnc/health/acidreflux

Maybe she's losing weight because of the GERDS, if she doesn't feel like eating? If she's not trying to lose weight, then I think a doctor visit is in order. That much weight loss over such a short time needs to be checked out. Plus, the issues with Plavix and other medicines.

Good luck!!

K

I can tell when I have overdone it with sugar because I get very dizzy. I take a pill and it goes away. Being dizzy doesn't hurt but the sensation is very hard to handle.

Is your friend trying to lose weight? Its easy to lose 50 or so pounds if very obese with lots to lose. How does she feel health wise?

Thanks for the help, guys.

She has seen about 10 doctors in the last 6 months. All she knows for certain is that she has the GERD because it wakes her up and she is not sleeping well. But yes, the weightloss is what is most concerning. At 58 that can't be good.

She wasn't trying to lose weight, it has just happened over the past 4 months and she says its only 40 pounds.

All I know is that she looks like a stick figure these days. I don't know what to say to help her. She is my friend and roommate and I am ready to move but I can't leave as long as she is not well.

She has started taking the Plavix again because her doctor told her that she could have a heart attack without it. And she takes Lipitor every day.

Personally, all these dam pills just make me angry! No one should have to live like that. And they all just got prescribed between Aug and Dec last year. Before that she hardly took an aspirin.

I was hoping for some suggestions of questions she should ask her doctor.

SolarGoddess

Thanks Eagle Heart, She was born with very mild Down's Syndrome and she can take care of herself and manage her affairs - but she is kinda' naive, in a sense.

She has never smoked or drank in the 20 years I have known her. She has had no lymph node swelling in the last few years. She would certainly have mentioned that.

She just lost her ability to taste anything, out of the blue. But only after taking Plavix and Lipitor for that 4 months.

I don't remember her ever having this GERDS before the Plavix and Lipitor either. She says she did but it was never a big deal like it is now.

Its like watching someone slowly die right in front of you and I have always had a distrust of doctors, anyway - while she believes they all want whats best for her. I just can't see that being the case.

Has she had any diagnostic testing? I think that's imperative.

She had some test done today, I haven't had a chance to talk to her since then, tho.

She is eating a lot better. I fixed breakfast for e1 this morning and I slid her the same amount of food I had on my plate and she ate it all. (lol) I think she's eating better - but she won't admit to that.

I'm starting to think that some of this may be manufactured because she doesn't want me to move.

Except the weight loss I'm sure wasn't on purpose.

Will be curious to hear the test results. Who will be with her once you are gone, and has she always lived with someone?

Hi All,

Well, she changed and went to see a female doctor today. We got a call a few hours ago that it is cervical cancer.

There is a feeling of relief, in a sense, just knowing what the problem is. It's amazing that just a diagnosis, finally knowing whats wrong, causes such relief.

Now I guess the real work starts, for all of us.

I want to thank everyone for your helpful suggestions. She used some of your questions to ask her new doctor and that started them down the road toward this diagnosis.

I'll talk to you soon.

P.S. Yes, I am cancelling my plans to move until she is well again.

I'm sorry, Dotsie...I just saw your questions.

Her brother moved in with us 2 months ago. He has congenital heart failure. We both spend a lot of time taking care of him.

The doctors say there is nothing else they can do for him, so he just talks about dying everyday, which is really depressing.

I imagine that he will require more and more of our time in the coming months, maybe years...I don't know.

We will just take one day at a time now.

SolarGoddess, I'm so sorry to hear the diagnosis. I know what you mean by it being a relief to know...but as you say, now the real work begins. When will they begin treatment?

My heart and prayers are with your friend - and YOU! This is a good safe place to come and hang out when you need a break and a breather...and shoulders to lean on when the going gets tough.

I appreciate you guys already and I just got here. *smile*

She has an appointment to see a specialist on Friday. We go from there.

Gotta keep her concentrated on thinking positive thoughts and just staying in a positive frame of mind, period.


SolarGoddess
Lynne

Welcome to BWS, Lynne. Your friend is very lucky to have found friendship like yours and as Eagle said, hope you take care of yourself as well.