I need to vent...you know my hubby, Larry, is one of the sweetest guys on the planet...yeterday was Father's day. He FINALLY received cards from his oldest son G and the grandkids, which delighted Larry to no end. Larry's middle child (son...25 years old), LW and his daugher D (30 years old), did not send him a card, no gift AND no phone calls, despite the fact that they live within 15 minutes from here. Larry kept his phone with him and would check it once in awhile to see if he'd missed their call. He got called to work around 7:00 p.m. and when I called him at 10:30 p.m. he had not received a call from LW and D. He is hurt and heartbroken.
I have finally had enough of these two adult children only coming around when they think it's going to benefit them, which is normally, Christmas, when they come for the 'family' party. They show up a few days later to pick up their loot of presents we give and walk away without giving their dad not so much as a christmas card.
Last night I told Larry that this year Christmas gifts will not be given to D and LW. They've ignored Larry's birthday, and Father's day for two years or longer. Last year I called them on Father's day evening to remind them , 'hey, it's Fathers' day...give your dad a call." D sent him an ecard (no phone call), and LW just ignored my request and didn't do anything.
Larry's step-sons (my boys) called him and sent him emails and got him a gift-card for his favorite store. Even Ray's girlfriend sent Larry an email wishing him a happy Father's day.
I should not be surprised that this continues to happen but it burns me up to see the hurt look in Larry's face each birthday and Father's day without a word from two of his children. What I don't understand is LW has called him often lately for Fatherly advice on how to work on a truck LW is working on...so, it's not like they're estranged from one another.
D is just selfish...in her own world, wrapped up in her own importance...she'll drive to within 3 miles of here to see friends and Larry's mom but she won't step a foot here to see her dad.
Larry told me a month ago he wanted to have a BBQ aroudn the 4th of July...it's going to be the last weekend in June because of everyone's schedules.LW is supposed to be here and we don't know about D yet (she's got to see if her work at wal-mart will interfer or not). I love my larry but part of the problem he has is he's so afraid of the kids getting upset with him that he's allowed them to pretty much do what they want/or not want and he is the one with hurt feelings.

Question..should Father's day be brought up in front of everyone or should I talk to them in private and ask them 'did you forget Father's day? do you care that you hurt your dad?" I'm going to say something, so don't try to talk me out of it...I just need guidance in when/how I should do this.
UGH!!!

Dee, I'm going to speak from the heart. I don't think you need to get involved, at all. This is something between Larry and his children. It may not be that the children are so much selfish as they are harboring deep rooted emotions from the past. Only the children and your husband can uncover and heal those feelings, whatever they are, or stem from. The healing should be between them and Larry. The best thing you can do is be available to not be available when the time comes, if it ever does. Larry may have to deal with LW and D, one at a time, separately and in different manners. There is some underlying problem that needs to surface, make itself known. Larry may not be able to see it on his own, but he is the DAD... maybe you can help him in that way... trying to discover the missing link.
Hope I haven't offended, but I'm living the child's side of a similar situation, and I'm contributing my thoughts from that angle.

Dee in my world, "YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE." These two adult 'children' need a wakeup call. I would hold steadfast to the NO Christmas etc. for them until they act differently to their father. BUT Larry has to stand strong with you on this and not weasel out cause he's afraid his kids won't like him... Do they act like they like him now? I think not. Remember once before when this came up, I suggested you and Larry take a cruise for the holidays or a trip somewhere just you two alone... Don't even tell these two you're going to be gone. Thats the way I get the attention of thoughtless people who don't seem to understand kind words.

Quote:

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Question..should Father's day be brought up in front of everyone or should I talk to them in private and ask them 'did you forget Father's day? do you care that you hurt your dad?" I'm going to say something, so don't try to talk me out of it...I just need guidance in when/how I should do this.
UGH!!!

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Okay, since you're gonna do it anyway perhaps, there could be some way it can be done without causing WWIII I'd suggest that perhaps the BBQ could be turned into a joint celebration of Father's Day and 4th July whether one or all of the children turn up. And, if anyone should ask why Father's Day is being celebrated as well, just say that (gently or teasingly) it is an opportunity to grasp albeit belatedly because occasions when everyone comes together to celebrate it has become rare. Then, I would just leave it at that. Because the dynamics between Larry and his children are such (and Gims has given good advice) then the opportunity of a get-together could indeed be one to grasp and celebrate. Better than none, I guess.

Gims...you have not offended me...I am posting because I get different views and that's what I need...dialogue is a two-way-street and I value your opinion even though it differs from mine.
Let me state what I know about. Larry was raised by a Mother who continues to be a doormat to two of her children (in their 40's). Larry, as sweet as he is, is also a doormat when it comes to his children. Part of his children's problem is that he allowed them to walk all over him and remained silent instead of speaking up...Larry's children's Mother was and is a dominating woman in every sense of the word. She did not teach her children to value their father (so I shouldn't be surprised that they still don't)...all she saw Larry for was a means for her to spend, spend, spend. Her needs came first and from what I hear from Larry's sister and mom, she would berate him, hit him on occasion and humiliate him...Larry would remain silent through most of it because he was raised by a Mother who taught him to be submissive and nonconfrontational. Larry's wife walked out on him after 24 years of marriage for a much younger guy she met in a chat room (that didn't last once the guy found out she didn't have any money)...she dragged D and LW with her (they were teenages) and Larry kept G. D (his daughter) eventually tried living on her own but, like her mom, can't control spending. When I met Larry, D had been living with him for 3 years (she was 25)...he didn't require her to pay for anything...again, she did what she wanted, when she wanted. LW continued living with his Mother and bought his own home...his mom stayed with him and because they both are unable to control spending, LW lost his house, truck, and went into bankruptcy. LW went into the navy because he really didn't have anywhere else to go...when her son went into the Navy she moved down here to Mobile and moved in on her daughter in her 1-bedroom apartment. After a year and a half LW gets out of active duty and because he hasn't saved his money, he also moves in with his sister and Mother in the one-bedroom apartment.
From the time I met larry's ex, she has berated him and trashed him...she even tried to bulldoze her way into my home and I put a stop to that and her slamming my husband around me.
I think a lot of this stems from me. Because I've come along and his kids are not allowed to bully him the way they could before. Every word that spews from their Mother's mouth is hateful and spiteful about Larry...how he was a bad father, how he didn't love them, on and on and on. Despite the fact that he's loving and kind and would give his kids the last shirt off his back...doesn't mean anything. They're choosing to be like their Mother when it comes to him.
In my view, larry has done nothing to deserve this. Larry did, however, help create this behavior from his kids because he did not step up and give tough love when it was needed...perhaps that's why he isn't now...he doesn't know how. Even now Larry would let the kids walk all over him if I didn't run interference when I catch it. They've backed off for the most part and perhaps this ignoring of their dad is because they know it bothers me...I called them last year to remind them...LW ignored the request, D did not call but sent an ecard...G called. This year Larry asked me not to remind his kids and see if they would do anything on their own...you now know the story. He's pretty crushed.
I just find it ironic that the two who totaly ignored him yesterday are still under mommie's roof and influence. Birds of a feather....
I realize nothing I say will ever matter to these kids...even though my intentions are to get them to see that they have a Father whose feelings should matter to them, they will choose to ignore anything I say because I'm the outsider. So, the only recourse I have is to make sure that Larry doesn't spend one hard-earned dime on kids who are ungrateful and show no love for him when it matters.

Lola...sorry, didn't see your input until after I'd posted mine, again. Larry will pretend like nothings happened and I'll be sitting there starring at the brats wanting to strangle them.

Yep. I'd like throttle them as well, Dee. Worse, I'd probably be unable to talk because I would have chewed my tongue so badly. But, if the get together makes Larry happy...what to do, Dee?

Oh Dee…ugh; families….we just can’t choose them. What a wonderful wife you are to Larry. And I know how that must hurt to see the man you love treated like that. In a twisted way I see a similarity to how my mother is treated from my Hubby. The difference is, I have a right to say my mind and put my foot down. If you get angry, they will probably say you should mind your own business, and the whole thing could escalate.
I think Lola’s suggestion is an excellent one. And also what Chatty said, about just not being there for Christmas…and not letting them know, is like slipping the rug from under them. Maybe that’s all they need.
You know what might really get their goat is if you have friends who just love Larry and praise him to no end; and that in front of his adult kids at some BBQ.

I agree that larry is the one who needs to talk to them about this...but, that's not going to happen. And I know that my opinion doesn't mean a hill of beans to his children. In the end, it's their loss and I can only hope that they grow up before it's too late and Larry is gone.
The Christmas exclusion will happen and maybe then they'll find out what it feels like to be forgotten.

Dee, I don't know if this will help, but, here I go anyway.

Dennis' sister was told of his new diagnosis and his hospitization and is needing to go to a nursing home for rehab. She did not call. She did not send a card. Finally, I sent her an email, and told her that Dennis really needed her to call. I layed out the worst case senario and everything. She called and he felt sooooo much better.

Now she is not young, like Larry's kids, but it worked. I butted in and she called.

I admire you for wanting to say something to them. It's tough when kids don't seem to care. My best, my very best, to you both.

Anno...you're sweet and thank you so much for caring...it means so much to me.
i tried that last year...I sent an email the evening of Father's Day when he had not heard from any of his children. I thought I'd give them a 'gentle' reminder what day it was. G responded immediately...D sent an e-card but did not call him even though she was home. LW fluffed me off completely and now this year comes around and thankfully G came through on his own but D and LW remained silent.
I can't call because I promised Larry I wouldn't ask them to call him. However, I do plan on asking them if their cell phones were broken Father's day. I'm sure we'll hear all kinds of 'excuses'...none, however, which will be legitimate unless they were near death. I'm having trouble understanding this...it's so coldhearted to me towards someone who is such a good, good man.

Dee, lots of good advice above, especially from Gims.
Not sure how old the offending kids are, but sometimes adults in
their 20's or early 30's are so into their own lives that
they are blind to everything else.
It should not be that way, but very sadly it is.

I think I once wrote this before in another thread. But anyway:

I used to sell real-estate to Germans in Spain. And do you know who most of the buyers were? They were Boomers estranged from their adult children. Many were bitter and were obviously not over it. So Dee, count your blessings if your Hubby is taking this quietly. It’s better for his health in any case. I wonder if these egotistical uncaring adult children will someday be treated by their own children in the same way. What goes out, usually comes back.

Oh my dear Dee....I remember this scenario from last year with you. I also shared my story about my husband's two daughters who won't even speak to him, much less send anything or call. So Father's Day was/is always a difficult day for us here. Here's a man that tried everything in his power to understand them and accept them as they are but the reality is that they're two spoiled, self-centered brats with no conscience. And that's the way it is and there is NOTHING under the sun that can change that until THEY decide to change. No amount of nagging, reasoning or anything can change someone's heart. They need to miss something in their life and change it. It will just continue to be a repeat performance on every special day. And it's never with sincerity that they do anything when they've been shamed into it. Yes, it's a major heartache for parents but it is what it is. Carry on with your life together and make the best of it. When the little 20 and 30-something brats decide to change you'll know it....and hopefully it won't be too late. Sorry to sound so bitter but I live with this daily and know it all too well.

I've read this thread, moved away from it on purpose because it angers me so for sweet Larry, then I would come back fully intending to post, but...

Here are my late thoughts...LJ said it all. Move on. I know it hurts you because you love Larry so much and it is a total injustice. What brats they are, and that is not the adjective I wanted to use for them. Totally self-absorbed.

But whatever you do, my dear friend, don't let them ruin any part of your lives together. If you let them, they win. They have put a wedge there that could possibly damage your relationship with Larry. I know that sounds absurb, but it could happen.

Kids do these things because they can. They can. They can do it and so what? They know Larry loves them too much to say anything to them, and that the fear of losing them all together is so great, he won't challenge them. So...they continue on down the path of IT'S ALL ABOUT ME. Let them.

Get on with your life. If you have the BBQ, ignore them. Act as though nothing has happened. Talk to Larry, and invite other guest that you can converse with. Why? Because...they have chosen NOT to make either of you a part of their lives....so choose the same for your own. But genuinely get on with your lives. Let them see that LIFE IS GOOD WITHOUT THEM.

It will make them think, "Hey wait a minute, how could they possibly be this happy when it's all about me?" Maybe they will think/realize that YOUR worlds do not revolve around them...but that you have your own friends, life, fun, etc.

And if the above advice does not work, I could send Bubba and Earl down to make um an offer they can't refuse...capish?

I've learned a long time ago, Dee, that when it comes to my step children, I have to shut my mouth and be silent. I am not the mother.......don't know the dynamics that occurred from way before me etc.

I believe the steps will have regrets later on. I see things, too, in my DH's situation. He just seems to be "second fiddle" to the Mom. But he handles it the way he handles it. HIS way. I have NO INPUT but to be there.

It's so difficult, I know, when we want to defend our spouses and keep them from hurt. But, for me at least, since I am not the parent, I cannot fix it.

My heart goes out to you, Dee. Being a caring stepparent does not always pan out.

I read this yesterday and wanted to help you Dee, but I'm at a loss. I was always taught to take the high road and set an example, but how do you do that in this situation?

I think the best thing for you to do is talk with Larry and let him know how you feel. Then see if he could tell them he was hurt by not hearing from them on Father's Day. Maybe it will be a time for him to communicate with his kids about what lies beneath the surface for everyone.

I get the same way when someone hurts one of my loved ones. The momma bear claws come out.

Dee,
Larry isn't the only parent ignored on special days. Someone very close 2 me, has an only son who never contacts them or sends them a gift on Mothers' Day! Mothers, fathers
it's the same thing. Parents get hurt, year after year. If the kids never mature, what can U do? I know U hurt 4 Larry; he's a sweet guy and U love him. It's normal 4 U 2 hurt. But I'm with gims and DI and some of those that say, "let Larry deal with it; stepmothers are in a very iffy spot!" Should you push the wrong button, you might regret it forever and ever. Just go along as if everything is okay. They've got to live with themselves. And anybody that could mistreat that cute hubby of yours, is wacko!!!

I also think at their ages, they just don't wanna know.

One time I told DH what his daughter said to me about a certain situation. He said, "She does not know it yet but it (the situation) will be good for her later on". It's so true. They cannot see what we see. They are not our ages and maturity.

Eyes wide shut....in that generation.

Dee, I'm in sort of the same boat...with hubby's two grown children. Hubby's daughter is wonderful, calls him several times a week, visits often, and though heavy work responsibilities made it impossible for her to get here for Father's Day, she did call, and will make it up to him in a few weeks when she gets a few days off.

Hubby's son on the other hand is one of those who sometimes appears to get caught in that "It's all about me" syndrome, though my observations of late show me that he's more appreciative and attentive these days. He's a brilliant inventer/engineer, but often just doesn't see beyond his own world - he would be crushed if his own children forgot him on Father's Day, but doesn't think to call his own Dad. This year they had a legitimate excuse in that he had to travel out of town to accept a very prestigious award for his work - so we cover up the wound with pride in his accomplishment.

I too learned a long time ago - the hard way - to keep my nose out of those relationships and my mouth shut. No good has ever come out of my interference, though I work silently in the background to try and nurture the bonds that ARE there. I've learned that spreading honey does a much better job at drawing them in than vinegar (how does that saying go? I can't pull it out of my brain right now). Anyway, you get the gist of it, LOL. I had to change my focus (again) from what's not to what is, and build on that. It's very hard to watch a loved one be hurt, especially from our perspective where we know all too well just how fragile and short life can be. But there's no win-win resolution here when we as the steps get involved beyond their boundaries. I've learned (again) that all I can do is allow them to be who they are and try to build on whatever positives exist there and hope that any good seeds we plant along the way will eventually produce the garden we're hoping for.

With respect to Father's Day, methinks my partners' 2 adult children don't seem to observe it consistently so far ...but then it's blended in I guess, with his birthday which is at end of this month.

The children and he do initiate phone calls to one another on both sides. So the communication isn't one-sided. It is good open communication and has been like this for past few years.

Dee,
As a kid growing up I was like Larry's son G, the one that remembered Dad's special days. My 1/2 brother and 1/2 sister never did a thing. I would get cards and mail to them w/ a Stamped return envelope so they could mail Dad a card. Sometimes I would send poetry about loosing our elders, that worked for a few times to wake them up.. finally I gave out on this as Dad always seemed more thrilled with their measley card, since neither lived with him and I did...as his cow hand, ranch foreman, driver when he was too intoxicated, secretary, cook, housekeeper etc....I could give him actual gifts & cook special meals & he still was more pleased with the other 2's card that I sent for them to send! I finally had a talk with them, & told them either they remembered on their own or I would let them look like the A-hole people they were, that they were hurting Dad by not honoring him on special days, for a while this worked. At least one or both of them usually remembered. Sadly they really got into recalling as Dad aged and the end seemed near. Not that they were making up for lost time, but they wanted to be sure they were in good standing for the inheritance. Long tale to get to this, could Larry's son G talk to them? Coming from another sibling it might have more impact? Good Luck
PS None of my Dad's kids had the same Mom.

I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to the forum responses yet....but, plan to do so...Larry took a day or two off, which is nice, and we've been gardening all day...whew...I would like to say that Q-ball, that's an excellent idea about big brother talking to the other two siblings...you never know. To those of you who have sent your heart-felt responses and stories, I'm touched...I did talk to larry and found out some things that I will share with you in a day or so...for now, I need to go clean off the dirt...but, it's been a grand day with sweet Larry. Love you guys so much.

Dee, my heart goes out to you and Larry. The only way to lessen his hurt is to physically remove him from harm's way -- that cruise for the two of you on Christmas, for example. The brats will not call him anyhow, so you may as well provide them with an excuse. And while you're at it -- why not extend the practice to THEIR birthdays as well? "Oh sorry, we forgot to call/card/gift -- we were having such a great time on vacation!" Or send them a postcard if you must.

When they learn that Larry is not bending over backwards to accommodate them, maybe they'll come around. Or not -- but it won't be any worse than the situation now.

Divine,
U R right, again!!!!

I'm back...Larry's on a train and I've been to two quilting classes today...it's been a busy, busy day.
First, thanks for everyone's support and good words of wisdom, wishes and heartfelt love. I appreciate it so much. I'm still not sure what's going to happen during the weekend of the BBQ...Larry says he's going to say something so we'll see.
I've tried the you catch more flies with honey...however, it doesn't seem to matter with two of his children...they don't appreciate anything 'sweet' we do for them...they take it for granted as well as taking their dad for granted, so my reaction is to do no more for them...to give them what they continue to give...nothing. I cannot grasp the coldness of it...it's just so cold.

Dee, I got to thinking more about this last night.

It all stems from divorce. This is why "God hates divorce". All kids react differently. Some are "ok", some will never be.

Some have totally understood why "Mom and Dad" should have separated their lives. Some never get over it.

Having never been a child of divorce (Mom and Dad together until Mom died at age 43), I can understand why some kids grieve. When a family unit is "severed", it's VERY difficult to adjust your life. Think of an arm no longer on the body. It can take quite a long time to live w/out that main portion of the "body".

The family "unit", or "body" is so out of sorts, some "limbs" will need a unique adjusting period.

Sorry to ramble. But as a stepmother of adult kids in their mid 30's now, I still see issues, somewhat, that may never go away. I am NOT DA MOMMA and I watch DH experiencing some stuff that I do not understand. Yes, the kids like me and are happy their Dad is happy. But, I suppose "Mom" will always be "home" to them.

Trust me, I feel your concern.

Di...I was a stepchild from the age of 10 so I understand both sides of the fence. That's why I've always tried to be understandinf of being a stepchild. but, you're right, no matter how nice stepmom is...I think it's rare that stepchild and stepparent coexist easily.
I'm never going to get these adult steps to do the right thing...and I don't believe larry telling them will either...I believe they're too selfish. Just too selfish.

I'm just glad Larry has you to love the heck out of him. I'm sure he is too.

I've been skulking some - I've been too busy with work to do much on the internet. But your situation really hit home with me Dee. My son and I do get together at holidays and I am thankful for that, but I feel left out of his life and don't feel close to him. I will never say anything to him, because I never want him to feel smothered by guilt. When and if he ever comes around and becomes the man I think he is, I want it to be on his own free will. I'm willing to wait for that.

I realize that my situation is partly my fault. I chose his dad, who is a selfish idiot and never showed me any respect or honor. My son treats me (and his wife) the same way his dad treated me when we were married: Neglected.

It sounds like you have a great husband. You should make each other your world, and enjoy life as much as possible.

Daisygirl...not to take away from Dee's post, but I know she won't mind me saying, "Howdy!" to you...I'm so tickled to see you in here!

Girl..give us an update on yourself!

Had to say hi to you Daisygirl, its been awhile. Hope all's well with you...

I wish I had some wisdom to add. I just wanted to say that I hurt for your husband. It's too bad Christmas isn't sooner so you can give a lesson to the brats.

No, ya'll I don't mind anyone say hey...that's why we love these forums.
Daisygirl...I'm sorry for how you were treated by your husband and neglected by your son. There's so many dynamics in families and step-families.
I've learned one thing...you cannot force anyone to do the right thing or love you, including a child. I have a dear best friend who hasn't seen her son for 15 years. She told her son on one occasion that she didn't like something her daughter-in-law did and from that moment he turned his back on her. She has 2 grandchildren she's never seen and he lives in the same town. She said she wouldn't know them if she bumped into them. That is just heartbreaking to me.
Dotsie, Larry and I are living our lives each day and enjoying the blessing we've been given. All we can do is not let the two kids come in and try to take more advantage and if they choose to be absent from this wonderful man's life, it's their loss. They are losing out on the love and support of a great Father and how sad for them that their selfishness overrides love they could be experiencing.
I'll keep you in my prayers Daisygirl that your son will change.

I truly hope this all works out for everyone, Dee. I love the concept of family, esp. close families. I thought ours was just that, once. I was living in fairytale land. (humlan, pass that vodka, wait... is it any good... never had vodka before)

Oh yes, give me a glass too...a double. The title of this thread suits my disposition right now perfectly, Dee. I’m at a loss of words as well.

I had a hefty quarrel with my son, Anaiya's father, this weekend. I think it was in another thread where someone said...our kids are the "ME" generation. Oh how very true; at least with the sons.

Are you interested in what we quarrelled about? Well, hope I won't bore you.

My son called yesterday to tell me that he is staying over night, and will take Anaiya early the next morning with him to a professional golf tournament.

Whaaaat? A golf tournament? Oh yes, just the right place for a two and a half year old. And it is sizzling hot. I said to him in a very nice manner, "Danny, don't you think you should leave Anaiya here, and go by yourself? It’s much too hot for her, and she will never be quiet for hours on end." You won't believe his reaction. He yelled into the phone, "I am the father; I do what I want with my daughter, and you have no rights at all!" He then slammed the phone down in my ear. Two hours later, he drove up to our house, grabbed Anaiya, put her in his car, and off he went. He didn’t come back last night. He didn’t bring any of her clothes with him, no blanket, no toothbrush, no diapers, nothing!

I can not fathom the audacity of his behaviour. If it wasn’t for Anaiya, at this point, I would check him off my list for a long long time. Of course he has to bring her back, … sometime. But he better come back with a big fat apology. No way in the world do I deserve such treatment. Is he confusing me with his wife? There is absolutely no excuse or explanation for his behaviour. I was polite and respectful in my tone. I don’t want to take his daughter away from him. Nothing would make me happier then her going back to an intact family. This has dug a deep painful wound in me, and his behaviour is so uncalled for,...that even I... am at a loss of words. ...I wonder if he is bipolar? This isn't the first time he acts so irrationally.

I think the word, sweetheart, is JERK. I think this is the JERK generation. How rude of him. All I can say is I hope Anaiya is okay and that she made it miserable for her dad to enjoy himself playing golf. I think when we as parents become too wounded we hope their behavior can be explained away by some mental disorder instead of what is probably is...rudeness, selfishness, just being a jerk. The only cure is maturity? I feel so badly for you...good grief, after all you've done for him and to have him treat you like this is just plain selfishness. There's no appreciation for anything we do for our kids these days. I hope you do give him an attitude check for speaking to you the way he did...you did not deserve that. Offering advice is no reason to be treated like that...what the heck is going on with this generation of kids? I don't get it...and am at a loss of words, too. My heart goes out to you darlin'.

I would just imagine that Danny had reached a boiling point from his how decisions about his own life, and you just happen to tip over the tea kettle, so to speak. I'm not making excuses for him, but I do think his anger was misdirected and that he KNOWS you always have her best interest at heart.

Obviously he was mad at something or someone else...yet chose YOU to take it out on. What is the old saying, "We always hurt the ones we love?" I think people do this because they know you will love them, regardless. Does this make it right? Absolutely not. Nor acceptable.

I can tell you this much, when he did arrive, he would either apologize to me or be handed a chewing he wouldn't soon forget. It would start with, "grow up."

You, of all people, do not deserve to be treated as the hired help. You are his mother. Period. Honor they Mother and thy Father. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

Well said, JJ.

As I read down the posts EW I was forming the same conclusion JJ expressed.He must have his thoughts.
As long as the little one is ok..
but I kinda hope she pees on his golf trousers .At no risk to herself.And a question does Annyia ever say out loud what you are feeling..that would be a double whammy.

"Daddee its hot .wish I was at Granmas. Daddee why did you bring me here to this boring place.Daddee..so glad I am driving up Gramna street."
Mountain ash

I love that, MA - hoping she peed on his pants. LOL

I was thinking pretty much the same as JJ. I am sure he feels some guilt too; guilt that his family isn't intact, guilt that he isn't raising his daughter; guilt that she is happy with the two of you.....

As long as we are talking about ungrateful kids, get this one. My brother, lives in California, has only been home to see mom and dad two times in the past 10 years. He came home for dad's 80th five years ago and for mom's 80th last month. He hadn't been home for 5 years before dad's event. And both times, he managed to eek out about 4 hours with the folks. And he probably won't be back until we bury one of them.

I don't get it. Sure, my parents are not fun, but then neither is my brother! And, sorry, but he is of our generation.

I was so upset by my son's behaviour, that Hubby called him, and told him he better get his act together and apologize to me.

So he hands the phone over to me, and my son says, “Dad wants me to apologize; …but I was insulted that you implied I can’t take care of my own daughter.”

Can you believe it! I simply asked if it is wise to take the daughter to a golf course for 6 hours in a 90 degree heat wave. I told him, that he is purposely trying to misunderstand me, just to justify his horrible behaviour. And if he is apologizing because his father says so, then he needs to do some rethinking.

But you know, I feel better now. He is the one losing out; not me. Should be interesting when he brings Anaiya back on Sunday. When we were on the phone she was screaming “Oma! Oma!” and crying her little heart out in the background. My poor little Anaiya.

Your posts helped me more than you all can know. They truly did! And Mountain Ash, I had to lol at your visual. Hee hee,…I think he was punished enough, because he didn’t get to see his precious golf game. He told his father, Anaiya wanted to run on the green and pick up all the golf balls. But I think JJ and MA, hit the nail on it’s head once again. I think Danny is acting this way because he is angry, and frustrated with his life…and to top it off, he’s jealous of the time we have with his daughter.

Oh Ann, sorry to hear about your brother. What is it with men? JJ, you are so blessed to have two wonderful adult sons. And Dee you are blessed too with your son. Thank God there are exceptions.

Edelweiss...I am SO impressed that your husband went to your defense on this...give him a huge hug from me. Tell your son he should know better than you trying to make him feel bad about raising his daughter...that you are doing everything you can to help him out and that he needs to stop taking his frustration out on you.
Thank you for what you said about my son...believe me, it hasn't always been like this...there's been times I've wanted to pinch both my son's heads off and kick them in the tushie. I think boys want our approval even after they're grown and take any bit of questioning as a sign of them not knowing what they're doing...too defensive, I think. I hope he's learned a lesson...and that is that Mom knows what she's talking about. And you can remind him..."I raised you so I must have been doing something right." Hang in there sweetheart...and tell you husband he did awesome by you.

EW
The united front that Hubby and you present will have given him food for thought.Even if it only hits home when he returns on Sunday. Play that meeting well.
And good the little one wanted to pick up the balls..of course she did (shows how out of touch your son is)and this will reinforce his own insecurity at how "well" he is looking after his daughter.This is sad..because its really Mother who has set this in motion by pursuing her dream.

You have the advantage EW. recall how he acted as a teenager and how then you were the adult he the young person.Because this is a replay of his way of coping.The lad probably needs a good cry...seeing how his life as turned out.
BUT if you husband and son can talk calmly and salvage what really matters...that Anniya is as unaffected as possible.

Could you all be so like a tight spring due to your heart procedure that this is a focus.
Because EW a whole different scenario could be happening.This must be the undercurrent for all of you.
Dont underplay what you have been through.
Mountain ash

MA's words are full of wisdom, please read them carefully. If I wanted to launch my boat in the waters but saw when I arrived that they were tossing to and fro, I would probably back as far away from the waters as I could and give it up.

If, however, I saw that the waters were calm and inviting, I would probably go forth with my launch.

Maybe over simplified, however, I couldn't help but think that because you have all been slap around with the unpredictable behavior of the mom and the situation in total, then perhaps everyone could use a break from the drama of it all and just sigh. Give in to the heavy sighs, too. Say to yourself, it is what it is. Why? Well, dear friend...you have just had major surgery. Maybe you don't think of it that way, but I can guarantee you this, anytime someone cuts on ME, it's major. And it was your heart. You do NOT need the stress.

So what I'm saying is step back from it all, let it go, and when he arrives just let him do the talking. Be as calm as you can and let him know that your health is important to you and you really need him to work with you on this. That everyone will do as much as they can to help, but he has to sort out his own feelings BEFORE he brings those to your doorstep AND that hostility will not be tolerated. Remind him that what you do is done from love. Love for him, your grandchild, and yourself/hubby. That you give from years of experience as a parent in hopes of helping him, not hurting him. And then say...what can I do to help?

Put the ball back in his court because when he is asked, he will realize that you are ALREADY doing ALL that you can to help. But ask. Make him a part of it all.

I'm still not excusing him from his behavior, but I know that if he were my son, I would be wanting to ease his pain...AND my own. It's what loves does...you know?

Edelweiss, I admit that I have been too much in my own little world lately to have considered that your are recovering from MAJOR surgery.

Yes, it was major surgery, as JJ reminded you (and me). You must remember to take care of yourself and remind others that you need to be taken care of, too.

JJ and MA give great advice as always.

Love yourself, my friend.

Some children [even the biological kids] think their parents owe them something because they [the kids] were
born. It's mom and dad's fault they're alive; so, whatever mom and dad owns, their kids' claim it. It's their birth-right, you know; or so some of them think! And anybody that ain't blood, don't deserve what's rightfully theirs!

Well, Sunny-boy…beamed in this afternoon with Anaiya. He acted as if nothing happened between us. So typical…’just ignore it…and it will go away’.

After we put Anaiya to bed, he was just disappearing out the front door. Hah! No way was I going to let him off the hook that easily.

We three sat in the kitchen for a good two hours and had a heart to heart talk. And you know what? I still think he doesn’t get it. Anyhow, in the end…before rehashing everything over and over again, I told him…it doesn’t matter what we argue about; it’s how it’s done. And if you have the least respect for me and your father, then you argue with consideration and tact.

He left and hardly said good-bye. I was hoping for a reconciling hug. … Oh well. It’s that huge chip on his shoulder, that I can’t seem to chisel down. And as Mountain Ash said; basically it all comes down to Anaiya’s mother that has left us all to fend for ourselves, and see to it how we can live happily with this arrangement.

In the future, Hubby and I will try to disappear on weekends, while Danny is here with his daughter. With the philosophy; “What I don’t see, won’t upset me.” I guess, it all comes down to the most important thing; and that is, he loves his daughter, and only wants the best for her.

I just want to thank each one of you for your very wise comments and support.

Dee; You opened my eyes with your comment about boys wanting our approval even after they’re grown. Maybe I have been neglecting that factor, and have only been seeing what Hubby and I do for Anaiya. I have taken this very much to heart.

Mountain Ash; You said; “The lad may need a good cry,” brought tears to my eyes. And it helped me and Hubby talk calmly expressing our concern and understanding of his situation as well. Thank you so much.

JJ, I quoted you tonight to my son. I told him when I ask about Anaiya when he has her, I do it out of love, and not to criticize him. And I asked him to not hesitate if he has suggestions as to how we should handle Anaiya. I think that threw him through a loop. And although we didn’t separate all huggy…it was good to get the feelings out in the open, and it has eased all of our minds. JJ you have such wisdom to share. Thank you so much.

Anno, “Love yourself, my friend.” Those words are the best soul medicine. And I know I need to take everything more lightly, and not let it get to me like that. And yes for my health’s sake and for Hubby’s too. Anyone know a secret formula as to how not to let family conflicts get under your skin? And Anno, this is so like you to think you are too much in your own little world. Your world is the first priority right now. Thank you for caring, and I know you really do.

Jabber, are you talking from your own experience? All I know the way you speak of your adoptive parents, many a natural parent would yearn for such kind words. I see no difference between adoptive parents and natural parents. My sons are so different from me…they could be adopted.

Gee,….I wish I could adopt some of you as my sisters.

I thought you had, sis. It sounds as though you followed your heart and have you ever known it to steer you wrong? Nada.

Good for all concerned. You may have to wait a bit for your son's maturity level to rise, but it will. Remember, he is struggling with other demons, not just raising his precious daughter. Sometimes I'm sure it seems the world is crashing down around him.

But stick to your guns...you've earned the respect that should be there.

Sister JJ

The phone rang today, and it was my son. "Mom," he sang into the receiver, ..." I just called to say....I, I, I,".... (hmmm...a crack in the CD?)... "I, I, I, Loooooooove youuuuu...from the bottom of my stinky sneaker shoes.".....

Oh man....maybe my sons aren't that different from me afterall. ...Me happy now!

Aaaaaaaaaaw!!! Always love a happy ending, EW.

EW, I was away for two days and look what I missed. SO glad the gals were here for ya. And even happier that you got an apology on his terms - not your husbands. Very cool.

Oh honey, that brings tears to my eyes! HOORAY FOR SON! I'm so happy for you and for him!

SONS rock!! Once in a while anyway... Happy for you too mom.

I've used a half box of tissue reading this again...our boys can bring us to our knees with just three little words... "Laundry done yet?" JUST KIDDING!!! Made you laugh!!
I'm thrilled to pieces Edelweiss that he called you and said that...he knows you love him...and I'm so happy you talked...isn't that wonderful!!!!!

Actually I was talking from observation, mostly: the stepchildren that snatch and grab everything their stepmom and dad have worked a lifetime to acquire. I've seen distant family members with that attitude of what's yours is mine, because it's your fault I was born in the first place. My adoptive folks' had nothing to do with that statement. Sorry! Didn't mean to confuse anyone. I have nothing but the deepest respect for adoptive parents!

EW...soooo happy for you and your son..for that phone call he made to you!

You got some great advice here...as I read thru this thread..

After reading this all again + the problem with EW's son, I wanted to add something.
Before my son's wedding, stressfull last minute preps at every turn, in addition to moving to their new house etc..He got very harsh with me. Being human I snapped back. Later I called him and we talked. I started he conversation with an apology for loosing my temper & told him I understood his harshness. Then asked him what all was bothering him, ''long talk'' & we came to the agreement, he snapped at me, because I was the safest, most forgiving person for him on this planet. In essence, Being his Mom, I was the one place he could let down and vent without a super ruckus..he was stressed. Our younger adult kids are so stressed, we hate to admit it, but things aren't the same as when we were their ages. granted they need to learn to deal with it & I do have many gripes RE: My kids... But, my son Thanked me for letting him blow off steam and finding a way to do it appropreatley. He was afterall, not going to upset the bride nor have a fuss with his soon to be inlaws, my DH would have only demimished his woes with a Told you so attitude & his brother, boss and co workers wre just not an option for his fussy tears, fears and frustrations. Nope he needed his Mommy. Now, I do reserve the right to be at total odds with this same child at any given time. But this was just an instance of a time where HE had more on his plate than he knew how to deal with.
QB
Probably like EW mentioned her son's behaviour was more directed at others than actually at her, her idea hat the temps/golf and a 2 y/o didn't jive was just a good opportunity for him to unload on someone. Mom was safe and handy. Aren't we always, really?

Edelweiss, I'm so happy for you and that wonderful phone call...doing a happy dance on my chair...well, I'm doing a butt-happy dance, not actually standing on the chair dancing...anyway, I'm glad he phoned you like that!

EW,
That was sweet. That phone call from your son was heartwarming. Happy stories R so cool. I guess my post was a bit too harsh; sorry about that.
Qball is right! Sometimes family members snap at the people closest 2 them, because they know, they can and all will B forgiven.

EW
last weekend was a turning point for all in your family.
I alway try to see the learning from each issue.
The two hour talk would allow your son to see how seriously the situation is.He would have to process the conclusions.You had your husband and us to to share your feelings with....He was out for the day at golf..trying to cope with a baby and really not on the same page as you were.
Imagine the years to come and all child rearing issues Anniya will bring.It would be ideal if ground rules could be established that good manners be maintained.If not same old... same old will repeat.
Then part of the time is spent in trying to re establish ground rules.

So hugs for son when he comes and positive reinforcment about his parenting..drip drip driping tap..it works in class slowly but its worth trying in a home situation.

Disempowering is destructive and I feel DIL has disempowered
your son.His hopes and dreams.
Often a time of stress allows the redrawing of power and
what is accepted...seems to me you were able to say that its for the love of Anniya that you ask about her and share concerns.
Adopt me if you like EW I feel in need of support often.
Mountaina ash

I agree with you gals about kids tending to abuse parental love, when they are so sure of it.

MA, “drip drip driping tap”? Are you describing giving positive reinforcement. That’s a good description as to how to do it. In other words…not too much…just a little at a time? Yes, DIL has disempowered my son. This was certainly not how he imagined his little family to be.

Sister Mountain Ash…you who give so many of us support, hopefully will seek support for yourself. I pray you do. This forum is the best therapy in the whole world.

And Jabber, your post wasn’t harsh at all. My son was the harsh one.

Eagle Heart, doing a “but-happy-dance” in my chair too!
Thank you everyone for living this through with me.

Dee, I wish we could put some dynamite into those step children’s pants, and make them feel what they are doing to your Hubby.

Here is an excellent article that may help you through this.

http://www.dailyom.com/articles/2006/3695.html

EW
sharing with others one way of approaching things using my own skills helps me in many ways.

Speaking to a kindred spirit is reflecting ones own worth.

My friend who lost her husband and I are on the same wavelength. Having working together (so well and with such rewards for us and the children we were with)we speedily get through issues.We both have children nearly the same age.

Cry together..and laugh too.

The conclusion we came to recently was
communication.

This is a two way street.Listening as well as expressing an opinion.
Mountain ash

EW...thanks for the article...you are always finding ways to reach out to us...you are the sweetest person I know.

I spoke to LW last night. An opportunity presented itself and I took it. We're having a sleep-over Saturday with Larry's son G, DIL M and their two little ones and LW...LW called to see if he could bring something (that was sweet of him to do that). We talked a bit about what he's been doing since he got out of the Navy and after that I just jumped in with both feet and said 'I have a bone to pick with you and your sister.' He chuckled and said, 'what's that.' I was as Motherly as possible with him about how much their silence on Father's day hurt their dad and wondered why they chose to ignore him on such an important day. Then I reminded him that they've done nothing for him for Christmas, his birthday and now Father's day. He listened very maturely while I expressed my feelings about how important these times are and that they have one dad and life isn't certain and missed opportunities...and on and on. He said he wasn't taught (by his mom) that these times were any big deal and that's why he didn't think anything about it. I explained that I was raised differently...that Larry has had 5 years to see and be involved in how much fun all the interacting is and how he misses it with his own children. He seemed to react in a positive way and didn't sound offended (I tried to deliver it in a soft, caring way) because I didn't want to alienate him. That would defeat the purpose. We'll see how he and his sister (if she comes) behaves this weekend and in the future. I realize I'm fighting their lifetime of their Mother never teaching them the importance of their dad...and it shows, big time. To her larry was just the person who worked and provided everything...not one to love and cherish and respect. But, like I've said before, Larry's middle name is doormat and his kids learned how to take advantage of that. Now, instead of me doing the same, I'm trying to get them to see that their dad has feelings and they should matter to them...not use him for their personal gain. It's a long row to hoe but I'm going to try to have some kind of positive influence on this...may never happen, but I'm trying.
As far as me not wanting LW moving in with us after he left active duty, my apprehensions were not unfounded. He told me last night he has applied for unemployment and doesn't want to work. He's hoping by September something comes in with the plumbers union/training...which means he's going to sit on his butt in that one-bedroom apartment with his mom and sister. He told me he was being lazy but why work if he could get paid for doing nothing? (I've never in my life understood this mentality and he certainly doesn't get this from his dad).
Anyway, that's the up-to-date story on the Father's day issue and the LW NOT moving in here issue.
One positive thing I can say about LW...he will listen to me...he may not do a darn thing I suggest, but he will listen. That's something.

Wow Dee, I think your report sounds very positive. And you are right; have to give LW credit for listening. Even if it helps just a teeny bit, that alone is an improvement, and hopefully a first step to getting closer to their father. It’s always good to think it through how to convey a message. You did good girl! And you are pretty sweet yourself!

Funny how we think they may not be listening and then one day, WHAM! What we told them kicks in. It never hurts to tell you side of things...and how you feel. You just never know when the WHAM will hit them. Good job, Dee! You've had your say...at least with him.

They're very lucky to have you as a Stepmom, Dee. It may take time but, because he listens, I think LW will come around.

Good for you DEE... Three cheers for your gumption in mentioning this issue to LW, and maybe he in turn will discuss it with his sister. Miracles can happen with a little push from you!

JJ...let's hope a 'wham' hits him.

Lola...I'm not sure if they feel they're lucky...I've been pretty up front of their dad's mis-treatment by them, but perhaps LW will now come around.

Chatty...I'm praying for a miracle as well. Thanks for all your words of support.

Dee, you're incredible! Lots of gumption where others would suffer in silence. Good for you.

The weekend visit with all 3 step-children and the step-grandbabies has come and gone and I must say it was very pleasant...I will fill in more later but I'll say for now that Larry is very happy and I'm hopeful. Will share more later. The grandbabies were awesome and Larry and I are absolutely worn out. Love you guys!!!

Hip, Hip Hoorah!!!!! It's about damn time Dee. You are so awesome to bring Larry's kids into the light, so to speak...

Love meredith's comment. Can't wait to here more details of your family gathering.

I am right in there on Meredith´s comment..It tooks guts, lady. AND it looks like you made the right move after all..BOY have you given me food for thought! Seriously!

And now I am waiting impatiently for your news...

Angel hugs, darlin´

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack. Goodness, things have been busy around here. Thanks for all your comments and interest. It took Larry's DIL to get Larry's daughter to spend the night...(no surprise there). LW, Larry's younger son, showed up with a new tent and camping equipment and camped in the woods behind our house. Larry was going to the store and asked if anyone needed anything...LW said he needed a toothbrush...Larry came back with one and gave it to LW...LW didn't say anything...I looked at LW and said, "say, thank you, dad." Another act of kindness by Larry...another act of kindness ignored by one of his kids. See what I mean? then he didn't even use it and left it on the counter unopened. They act like they are owed everything and don't act grateful for anything...it was a small thing...a tooth brush, but can't you even say thank you?
The rest of the visit went well...D (Larry's daughter) went up to bed early and LW went out to his tent. That left G (Larry's older son), G's wife, M and me and Larry. We spent a couple of hours playing Cranium and having a really good time. LW and G left after breakfast (they did help me which was nice...I had to ask them, though). Larry and I spent the rest of the day with G and M and the grandbabies playing in a wading pool. It was nice. Will D and LW ever 'get it'? I doubt it. They live with the person they're turning out to be just like...their Mother.
LW received his enlistment bonus from the Navy (he got it after he left active duty and went Reserve). Instead of saving it for an apartment he's blowing it on things like his tent, etc. Also, he's not looking for a job. He's content to sit in his sister's one-room apartment playing on his computer until sometime in September when supposedly a plumbing job become available. No ambition to do anything now.
I was right in my belief that LW would not be interested in looking for a job and that's why I did not want him moving in with us...he's not interested in working and wants to sit on his butt. I was a single mom, worked hard and have no sympathy when an able-bodied 25 year old who wants to make excuses for not working. So, I don't feel badly for my decision.
Was it gutsy? I guess...as a step-mom anything negative I say to them comes with a risk of rejection...but, in the end the only one who matters is Larry. As long as he's happy, I'm happy...and I know as long as I'm gutsy enough when needbe, his kids won't walk all over him like they used to.