I've been reading this book - "Codependents No More" which is really pretty interesting. While I've done very well about going about my business and continuing to be alive in the midst of a sometimes chaotic life, the book pointed out lots of areas where I could use some fine tuning and a totally different perspective.
While I'm no shrinking violet and I always have a very good idea of exactly what I'm thinking, I am always willing to listen to helpful suggestions. It talks about not letting the anger, bitterness or resentment (whatever you've got) not take control over your happiness, or ruin your ability to enjoy completely what is good and true. It's so easy to forget when you're in the middle of a trying situation.
Anyway, the book is kind of old, late 80s or early 90s but I think the information is timeless.
... just in case anyone else has issues that are similar but don't feel like openly discussing it. I got the book, used, for a few bucks on Amazon.com.

Kate

I read that book for a class years ago. I thought of it when I read your posts
smile

It's horrible to be that transparent. I hate being a cliche'. What happened to me?

Kate
Please don't think I have any way of knowing if you are codependent or not. Or even that it is always a bad thing. Seems like it's hard to tel if you are codependent or loving.

I just thought of the book as I read your posts because I thought it might be a danger for you. I hope the book will give you the information you need to know what is best for YOU and to do what you have to care for both yourself and your family.

You will be in my prayers.
smile

Smilie....thank you for your thoughts and prayers. I think what I fear the most is being paralyzed; doing nothing. It's not a place I get too often but occasionally I feel overwhelmed and trapped in a situation that I've evidently allowed and probably helped to flourish in my caring.
I just keep waking up thinking "How did this happen?" "How did I get here?" But the negatives build, stone upon stone, just like a bank account would if I could find a way to hold on to two nickels at a time. I tend to think that everything could be pretty much solved with money but of course that would be way too simple. So then I ask myself.... if I had money, would it make my happy. Well, as shallow as it sounds, yes, but of course no. If I didn't have all the bills and the mortgage to take care of, I would probably be a lot more relaxed and be able to let life unfold, but since that isn't the case, I feel like I'm grasping for any kind of control. Over anything. (so I ate mashed potatoes last night)(very bad on Atkins).
I don't know that I trust (today anyway) my ability to change anything. I thought I had backbone but maybe I don't. But I figure I'll give myself some time with AlAnon and regroup.
It's 5:30 in the morning and I haven't slept in hours so this may not make any sense whatsoever. I find that the only place I find peace is either at work, with my children (for the most part) or when I'm drawing or painting and am immersed in thought. Things that need to be done with my house, painting, fence work, tree trimming, etc. are overwhelming and I can't afford it; my husband has applied for Social Security which is another issue in itself, so at the moment there's absolutely no income from him and it could be like that for 6 months, the mortgage still needs to be paid every month, the same with the utilities and my kids still want to eat. I'm a little angry because I had planned on going to visit my mother and grandmother this weekend and after tossing and turning for hours, I realize that I can't. We just can't afford it. We live about 6-7 hours away and the car issue is something that always comes up. Things need to be done on our car, or we could rent one, either way, it's money that should be spent on the gas bill, the light bill......whatever. And is it difficult for me to place blame....oh heck no...that's not difficult... and have I figured out how to process this......oh heck no. And that's where the book comes in - how to let that resentment not flow into every other thing that is good and wonderful and lovely in my life.
Obviously, I haven't talked about those at all.
And a good morning to you!

Dreamer
Maybe you are just now coming to terms with some of the things in your life that have needed addressing for some time.
Sounds like you are simply overwhelmed. I've been overwhelmed by different things in the past. I think I got past it with prayer and by finding joy in very small daily changes then blindly moving forward with determination.
It helps me to know God as a parent who like me would want the best for all of his childre and would want themt to share, but would not want one to sacrifice themselves for the other. I have to remind myself that I am not Christ. He was sacrificed for me. I don't have to sacrifice for him.
An addict once told me that he got a huge high much like falling in love when he first took his drug and that he kept taking more and more to get that high again. He said after the first time, he would get stoned but he never truly got high.
He called his addiction an unrequited love affair.
He said no matter how much he loved a woman, his first love would always be the drug. He said sex and romance could never quite compare to his first high and that even during initmate moments his desires went to his drug. He said would take advantage of women or anyone else to get to his true love, the drug and he almost felt righteous about it.
He was a very intelligent and open person and was always in detox or treatment of some sort. He made various attempts, but never to my knowledge got past the addiction. It seemed such a loss to society.
You should check with someone who's been there. I once worked with the disabled and I think it most often years to get Social Security, especially for an addiction.
Pray. It's the only way.
smile

Dreamer and smile, mind if I drop in on what you've got going here? It's so real and honest.

Dreamer, I first want you know that you HAVE talked about the other things in your life that are good, wonderful, and lovely. You have shared about your family, good friends, and love of arts and crafts. We DO know another side of you.

I'm glad to hear you're reading the book and attending Al-Anon. I think it will help you see that you're not alone and that other people have been through it and gotten to the other side.

What saddens me is there have been times that your husband is ready for help and hasn't been able to get it. Your husband isn't the only person I know who's wanted treatment and not been able to get it. Unfortunately, in some areas it's easier and cheaper to stay on the drug of choice.

I think of you often and offer up prayers for strength. You're such a loving woman. I see it in your posts. I just don't want you to be robbed of the joys in your life. From your post it sounds like you find peace in many people and things. Keep focusing on the blessings and God carrying you day to day.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understandings. In all ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.
Proverbs 3:5-6

He's walking with you every step of the way...
Please find peace in knowing others are covering you in prayer.

Thank you both for the prayers and thoughts. I just came back from my first-in-10-years Al Anon meeting. Well, that was like a breath of fresh air. I think I can do this. It will take some practice to concern myself with myself but one of the points that was made (and I know I've read it but haven't probably practiced it) was that while I'm learning my life lessons (from the God of my choice... which is God) I do a disservice when I don't let others learn their own lessons in their own time and their own way. So as I go, I'm sure more will be revealed and I'll share along the way if anyone wants to know.

Still-A-Dreamr (thank God)
Kate

Kate, gald to hear you got to your fisrt meting. That's commendable! I'm glad to hear you're taking time for yourself. I know it's hard because of work and the kids, but it'sso important.

Just remember that there is a season for everything in life. I believe this is your season to delve deeper, listen intently, and breathe the fresh air. You CAN do it and you will. We're here to listen and help you work through this.

Blessings,
A friend of the dreamer (thank God)

Kate, my cousin Arlene who was always my best friend as we grew up, we got married together and had our first child, both boys only a month apart. Our two familys were inseperable. I lost my husband and she was there for me. About a year later her handsome husband, a hard worker, started stopping after work with the boys for a few beers. A few led to many more and he was almost never home for dinner and when he did come home, half the time he'd fall asleep in the car, or drop on the steps leading upstair to the bedroom and sleep. They fought horribly, they drifted apart and his drinking became a constant thing although he never did miss work. She talked to the priest and he was the one that suggested Ala-non. For many years she attended meetings and that saved her marriage Not being an addictive personality herself, she didn't understand him at all, until those meetings. I had moved away by then and the people she met became her life line. I hope you can find the strength you need to carry you through anothers addiction. Happy ending, Dick stopped drinking on his own years ago and they will celebrate their 49th anniversary later this month. He's been alcohol free now for 20 years or so.

I've read all of the posts on this topic with great interest. I grew up in an alcoholic home and it wasn't just one person who had a problem, it was several. Not only did one parent drink and cause pain to the other, but uncles would come over and cousins and before long, things got ugly. I don't know first-hand what it's like for the person with the problem, only what it does to children who live with it.

The endless days and nights of wondering if it is your fault that the other members abuse alcohol. The endless fights and yelling and blaming. Standing in the closet with your siblings hoping and praying that what you hear in the other room won't come in to invade the 'safe' space you have sought out in the closet. You find yourself retreating into a different world. One that is happy and all the parents and relatives behave and you are never afraid of them.

I think this is why I really became a writer, I retreated into that world that I escaped to, found out that there are interesting people there who I could relate to in different ways. I brought them out and put them on paper and they entertained me and kept me company when those around me were occupied with their problem.

I commend everyone who realizes they have a problem and seeks help. It has been over thirty years and I still have flash-backs of incidents that I have tried to forget. Everyone should try to look into the faces of their loved ones and see that the problem spreads to everyone they care about. I pray for everyone who needs strenght to fight this terrible disease.

Chatty, thanks for sharing that story. I didn't think it would end that way. It gave me goose bumps.

Betty, sorry you had to endure those painful times in your childhood, but grateful you have chosen a different route. So often children of alcoholics follow suit.

Kate, been thinking about you and praying for you. Been to any more Al-Anon meetings lately?

Hi Girly Girls.......my computer was down for several days so I was incommunicado...but it looks like I'm back up and running now.
Yes, I've been to a couple more Al Anon meetings. I actually like them. It's kind of interesting, the comments, I've heard.
My husband thinks they'll tell me "leave the bum" and my mother thinks that they'll tell me what to do and my mother in law thinks they'll counsel me on what I can do to help her son.
All wrong!
Amazingly enough, we don't talk about them (the drinker, user, spouse, whatever) - oh my gosh, for that hour or so, THEY don't get to be the focus of all our attention! Yayyy.
All they/we talk about is how to not let whatever that person, (be it spouse, child, relative or other close person) consume you and let their drama become your drama.
And that is one thing I felt like I really needed. Although I go on with my day-to-day jazz and I'm a very happy person all the time, I had this undercurrent of anger. Well I don't want to be angry all the time. I don't like it and there's plenty of things that can irritate me in any one day but I don't want to be angry when I wake up and then again when I come home.
The meetings are great at helping you become focused. No one can make good decisions when things are chaotic or even just unsettled. So it sort of helps restore the calm, in ME, so that I can make some sense of what I need to do. It's easy to get caught up in someone else's drama by trying to help when really, we can only step out of the way and let them learn their life lessons on their own. And in the meantime. ... I can walk the dog, or take a run, or do something artistic, or read, or give myself a manicure or go to the movies with a friend or chat on the phone, or garden or.....you get the idea. I can do anything I want to......to make MY life more beautiful.
So....that's all for now.

Kate

Kate.
So glad to hear that Al Anon is helping. You sound so much less stressed. Boomers were praying for you and I think we're on God's hot line.
Even though there may not be a complete solution, you have identified a part of the problem that can be addressed and and done something about it. Good for you!!
smile

Kate.
So glad to hear that Al Anon is helping. You sound so much less stressed. Boomers were praying for you and I think we're on God's hot line.
Even though there may not be a complete solution, you have identified a part of the problem that can be addressed and and done something about it. Good for you!!
smile

Isn't it intersesting how everyone has a different take on what you are doing?

I'm glad you've discovered the "undercurrent of anger" and know you want to change that.

You keep working at making your life more beautiful for you because you are a beautiful person. Thanks for sharing. You remain in my thoughts and prayers.

Keep spreading sunshine!

A little sunshine.... I've been seeing a therapist for the last several weeks. I haven't posted in a while. I wasn't too sure what to say. My first meeting, she listened and she told me that I needed to do two things - get my husband into treatment (or get him out of here) and see an attorney to protect my interests. My husband was already checking into treatment on his own so I didn't need to do that. And the attorney...? Well, California is a community property state so it wouldn't really matter because he'd get half of everything anyway, so I opted not to do that.
So now, just about 30 days later, the therapist is having me work on my self-esteem, which is interesting because I thought I had plenty but I didn't realize that it travels over into territories like setting boundaries and how you take car of your own needs, so that has been very good for me. I never realized that I don't really set boundaries. I let things happen and then I get angry and shove back (not literally though).
My husband has been out of treatment for several days and there's been a transition that is nothing short of miraculous. He said htere was a wonderful, wonderful Lutheran counselor there who he really tapped in to and felt like he got a lot of help from. This is going to sound incredibly sappy but all this time, these last few years, one of my most consistent prayers was that God would restore him to the man I saw when he first got saved, just about 20 years ago.... but I never saw quite that . This time it seems like that's what I'm seeing. He's so calm, so settled, and happy. The atmosphere here has changed from guarded and slightly chaotic to happy, still chaotic but calm and settled.
I'll continue with the therapist and we're going to a class at our church which is a small recovery based couples thing. Scott went last week but we didn't know it was for couples so I'll go this week and see. But you know me, ever hopeful and grateful that God hears me. It's a faith builder.

Kate

Ahhh Dreamr...those ARE words of sunshine and I am so happy for you both. Please keep us posted on your progress and know that you have been missed here!

Hugs,

JJ

Dreamerkate, thanks for checking in and sharing the amazing news.

I'm so glad you are getting help for YOURSELF.

God answers prayers and I pray that this change in your husband is permanent. Is there a way for him to maintain contact with the Lutheran minister that he clicked with?

The icing on the cake is the desire for your husband to go to the meeting at church with you. That's a HUGE step. I'm praying you walk through the door of that meeting and he feels at home.

I have an addicted youth that I pray for and my prayer is for him to find the Lord because I know that's what will make the difference he needs.

Keep on doing what you're doing.

You are such dears! That's one of the things that is so wonderful about this board, the encouragement, always.

So things are going great. I'm doing what I do, and we're doing what we do and he's doing what he does... we went to the church recovery thing last night and we were the only couple who showed up but that was okay. I got caught up to speed on what they do and they wanted to know what my hopes were. I told them that while of course I wanted to be supportive I also felt that for years I had felt that we had a ministry helping other couples. I've felt that for years only because I've always felt like we had something very unique because we've managed to stay together and not just because I put up with whatever is going on but because it's always been important to both of us, even in the face of Scott's battles.
So the four of us talked (the couple running it and Scott and I) together and then we split up. The wife and I talked about a lot of things but she really wanted to just get a feel for who I am and where we were in the recovery process. And then later she told me that she and her husband had been praying for a while and had really felt that God was telling them that there would be a couple that had been involved with the church almost since the beginning of it, that would come to help with their ministy and she said that she didn't want to jump the gun or anything but she had really felt strongly when Scott attended last week that there was something there and after the discussion we had yesterday, that she was wondering if maybe we were those people and she asked if I had any inclination in that direction. I told her that THAT was pretty amazing because we'd been in that church for 17+ years and I had ALWAYS thought that THat was what we were called to do but idiot Scott kept screwin it up... So... of course this is way in the future but it was really interesting. They counsel along with a couple of really good books and it's Christian based and I can't remember the name off the top of my head but it was written by one of the men who I think helped write The Purpose Driven Life. Baker? I think that was the name. And another book that Dianne recommended was on the list too. So...oh, one other thing...one of the things she told me was that all through their (really) rough marriage (28 years of it) she had cried out to God wanting to know why, oh why was she going through it all, and then she said at some point she got the answer - that the only way she would be able to help others was to have experienced it herself.

So......I'm ready for the thoughts.

Love,

Kate

Kate, God works in mysterious ways. See, I believe He's been at work throughout all this.

Please keep reading and doing what you feel called to do with his recovery and God will continue to place things in your path.

As far as helping with the ministry at church, I would leave that totally up to our husband if this is a couple's ministry. If the ministry was for partners of people who abuse/abused then I would say it's up to you.

Is your husband giving you feedback as you go along? I'm tickled that he went again. I'm proud of both of you. God is at work Kate...keep listening wholeheartedly. I'm praying for you girlfriend.

Kate, this sounds like a really good turn of events and I hope it follows through to fruition. My prayers, too, that this time it works.

Kate, any more meetings?

Actually, yes. The woman I've been seeing each week has been talking to me about setting boundaries. This is a good thing and it's not something that I haven't known and setting boundaries is all mixed up with self-esteem and such so I was getting to it but hadn't gotten to that point in my own personal growth.
Anyway, last week during our discussion she asked if Scott had found a job yet, (and since I know I write long I'll skip to the end) so when I said "No" she tells me to tell him to get out there, get a job and if he doesn't come back with one "kick him to the curb."
Here are two more things you really must know about me... 1) HATE two-bit cliches!; 2) DON'T ever do what someone tells me JUST because they say, I have to know that it's something that is good for ME; oh, and 3) DO NOT MESS WITH MY relationship with my family.
So... I maintained my cool but I may be setting boundaries and it may be in HER office this week.

Really, I'm goofy and funny and sort of a whack job, but when it comes to what I'M supposed to do, I really have this incredible sense of myself and what is intrinsically right for me. I just get weary sometimes.
On the church front - last weeks group meeting went really good. I felt like I had a lot to offer in regard to helping keep your family/self/life on some kind of balance in the midst of a storm. And my husband is just so peaceful, so settled, so focused. And is AcTuAllY looking for work these days. And NOT because I issued some mandate but because he's feel confident and able to contribute.

That's the 411 for now.

Kate

I'm just checking in here... things are going great.

We are busy with church, our Thursday night class. He's going to his meetings and I'm going to the therapist, which seems to be more like a little chat session than anything else.

Work is good. The weather has been nice and all the flowers I planted are still alive.

Life is good.

Kate

Kate, I'm so glad your husband has chosen to get help. I pray he continues on this path with you by his side. Keep up the good work.