I would really appreciate hearing your opinions on the following.

We have two sons. Our youngest son married two years ago and took on his wife’s name since she is a known athlete, and would have identity problems if her name were changed. My husband and I accepted our son changing his name for this reason.

Now our oldest son wants to marry. His wife-to-be wants to keep her maiden name. Our oldest son said he doesn’t want a double name, and came over tonight to tel us that he will be changing his last name to his wife’s name… and then added sheepishly (because he does feel guilty about this), hope that we don’t mind.

Well we do mind. It’s not like our name is Mr. and Mrs. Skunk-Doo-Doo or something. We have a perfectly normal name. We tried to explain to our son that it is difficult for us to accept the fact that we have two sons, and neither of them will carry our family name.

My son suggested I call my future DIL. I asked her to please understand that for us it is an awkward situation. When we introduce each one of our sons with another last name, …well, …it looks like they both had different fathers. Of course I got the standard, “What do you care what other people think.” I just want to add that in Germany people do not go by their first names unless they are family or very close friends.

I’m hurt that my future DIL and my son don’t understand us at all, and are being totally stubborn about this. Her maiden name is just as common as ours, and when I asked her why, … she just said “because.” I also got to tell you that she comes from a gigantic family… We are only three people representing our side of the family : me, Hubby and my other son. We’re just a tiny drop in their family clan bucket anyway. Ugh! I’m getting so mad while typing this.

My husband is as disappointed as I am. It’s only a name… I know…but it’s also the principle. Tell me please, am I being ridiculous about this, or would you all react the same way?

That must be a tough one.

I met a man once who hyphenated his name WITH his wifes. IE:

John Smith-Jones

Hers was Jones...his Smith

Hannelore, I can't be too understanding of your sons because I would definitely feel the same way. Carrying on one's name and heritage is....well, something we hope for. But it sounds like your first son got the blessing to change his name because of his wife but son #2 isn't faring so well. Looking at the big picture and a hundred years from now (and all that stuff) I guess it won't matter but I DO so understand why it would upset you and your husband. It's one of those disappointments that kids pass on when you never would expect it. I know this is no help to you really but I certainly do empathize with your feelings.

I hyphenated my kids names with my maiden name and my ex husbands. My daughter uses my name and my sons use their father's last name. They don't want to use the two names at school because it's a pain on forms etc.

I kept my father's name because my brother didn't have any kids and he was the last one. His name is very important to him. He comes from Denmark and has a printed book with all of the relatives names, births etc. In my father's family the children have their mom's maiden name as their middle name. That way they have both parents names.

I guess all I can say is that things can change. When your son's have children they may face a challenge. What to name the kids. Maybe then their family name will have more importance than it does now.

I must say though that it is surprising that your son's would change their names for their wives. It's sure a different world.

One good thing is that names can be changed back again down the road. I really understand your dilemma. I would express my disappointment but you don't want to get into a war over this as it may backfire.
Kate

Hannelore, is it common in Germany for men to take the surname of the wife? It isn't here so it is surprising to me that your first son did it for his wife. I've heard of women keeping their own name for business reasons, and hubby doing the same, but why do they have to have her name? I empathize with you.

How about asking your son if he could keep his own name and her keep hers? Does that make sense?

Keeping the fmaily name is important. Mom is from a family with nine children. Not one of her siblings had a grandchild to carry on the family name until just last hear. Everyone was so happy to hear when a cousin had a son who could carry on the last name...so this is where I'm coming from.

When I married the final, notice I said final time! I took his name but kept my own as in Chatty Happy-Camper, when I dropped him, I dropped the addition as well. No more camper, LOL, just the happy! I have NEVER heard of a couple marrying and the man takes the womans name??? Weird!!!

I'm in your court, Hannelore. I don't get it at all, and I don't think you are over-reacting, but, you don't want to lose the relationship with your son over this either. It just doesn't make sense.

Do you think that she is thinking she needs to do this because the other new gal in the family did?

As katebcca said
"I must say though that it is surprising that your son's would change their names for their wives. It's sure a different world. One good thing is that names can be changed back again down the road. I really understand your dilemma. I would express my disappointment but you don't want to get into a war over this as it may backfire.".....it sure is a different world and not worth getting into war with your sons! I had a friend whose son changed his name to his wife's.....it was heart-wrenching for his parents...so, so, so sad. I don't get it BUT I'm from a different generation. I can understand so much how your husband and you could be so hurt. It might be one of those times that you let go a little more than you have. Life goes on for you and your husband. Things may change down the road.

I have never understood the need to have a name passed on. Actually, all of us have "made up" names, anyway.

My name means "East house", important probably when it was originated, but in the present, it is simply an odd name.

The idea of passing on the husbands name is not that old, it's a relatively new tradition. No matter the name, your genealogy is still the same.

All this from a woman who never had children - take it for what it is worth - just my thoughts. Nothing more, nothing less.

I Love you, Hannelore, and hope, for you, that their minds do change. If not, will you love them less? I know you won't.

I know you won't love them less either. The thing is I do understand the important of males keeping their names and the parents who feel that for them.

Well, This is all new to me! I thought I was "hip," but I've never known anyone to take their wife's name even if she is as famous as famous gets! THAT is the first thing that confuses me. Is that done in Germany because my grandfather who spent much time there says "no." So, I have two son's and I'm having a hard time understanding why your first son took his wife's name. Um...who am I to judge, but I don't get it.

I don't get it even more for son number 2! What is going on here? Is this something that the younger son wants, as Dotsie said, because the older did it? It's beyond me. I kept my name, I had an established career with my name and entertainers do keep their name. I WISH I had my husband's name. He kept his, of course he did! He is proud of his name and who he is! I am confused. Color me puzzled. I'd love to hear what they said the reason is for this sharing of the woman's name!?
Again, I thought I was "hip," but I am really puzzled.
dancer

I would be as hurt as you, Hannelore. For the same reasons.

It seems that the barrier really is your son's non-preference for a hyphenated name, which if done in that way would make everyone happy. Has he stated why?

Simon Le Bon of Duran Duran took his wife, Yasmin's, name. I can't find any reference as to the manner she is addressed now. She could not possibly be called Mrs Le Bon. Perhaps your DIL should consider that. Whose Mrs would she be? She surely cannot be her own Mrs.

As long as your 2nd son knows how you and your hubby feel about this last name adaptation, that's good enough.

Let it go, Hannelore. Please. I'm thinking of the parents who have predominantly daughters and who have married. And not one has adopted nor hyphenated their maiden last name.

For a mixed racial couple, the last name is really can speak for itself on heritage and pride.

My parents have lost this one so far. Even for the daughter who married someone who is of CHinese descent.

YOu would not know from my nieces and nephews names, that they are half-Chinese. There is tremendous meaning and identity in this actually.

I understand traditionally some Germans have really long string of names. My partner's full name using his German first name encompasses 4 names --including his last name.
He has a hyphenated first name in German, that he claims proudly on his birth certificate and all his present legal documents. Hans-Jurgen. But most people use his English first name which he chose himself as a boy after arriving in Canada.

I actually found his German first name wierd...until I started to work for my present German company. Going to parties, I immediately with a smile introduce him wtih his German first name...it immediately establishes an "in" for him (he does know some German) and myself.

As for the "pain" of long, hyphenated last names. Well, I guess. Imagine having a Greek last name. 1 name can have over 15 letters.

Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts with me on this. I needed that confirmation. Sometimes when I’m arguing, I start to doubt my own feelings.

I will not let this escalate to any huge family controversy. Actually , I’ll tell you, just between us…I feel sorry for my son. He loves his fiancé’ so much, which is good, but she misuses his love and devotion to being a manipulative bitxx . He is punished enough.

There is another reason why my other son took on his wife’s last name. His wife is an Afro-American. Our last name, translated into English means “black”. He didn’t want to give any children a reason to make fun of his future children, so he took on his wife’s name. Since I personally experienced discrimination when I was with my DIL, we agreed totally.

Chatty Happy? Love that name. I’m glad you had the foresight to be able to keep it.

I agree Anno…it’s only a name. That is what’s keeping me from going overboard with this. But to my dismay my other son flipped out, and threatened my oldest son not to be his best man if he should change his name. Oh nooo, I didn’t want that to happen. We have three weeks till the wedding…hopefully time will sooth the feelings between my boys.

Thanks again my friends for always being there with your honest comments.

The latest update:

My two sons argued so heftily that the one getting married sent my other son a sms stating he doesn’t want him to come to the wedding.

So now my husband says if he isn’t invited, we aren’t going either.
I agree. So it has escalated…but my oldest son is doing the escalating, not us.

Never ever have I dreamed that this could happen to us. I’m so deeply disappointed in our son. I also feel anger, because none of us including my other son deserves such a treatment. Our family was always very close knit. This behaviour does not fit into our family and how we have always been there for each other. I can’t help but think, (and I know I sound like the mean Mother- in- Law, …but I just don’t have any other explanation), that my soon to be DIL is behind all this.

My son lives with his fiancé’ in a 3 family house; her parents in one apartment, and her grandmother in another. They sit every evening together and just about live like the Brady bunch. So it’s not like we were any competition or trying to take him away.

There is no excuse that my son is allowing himself to be influenced against us. Another thought that comes to mind is that my son has no say at all in his relationship with this woman, and now he is trying to show us that he has control by letting it out on us and acting irrationally. Does this make any sense?

I’m too angry to cry.

Oh, and yes Dotsie, it is unusual for the man to take the bride’s maiden name in Germany as well.
And orchid, those double first names are like double first names in English…like Mary-Lou or Babara-Ann….I have never met anyone hear with a string of last names, but I guess there are always exceptions.
Lola, your suggestion would be the perfect compromise, but my son hates double names, und therefore would rather take on his wife’s name.

I am so sorry that this seems to be getting out of hand. Pre-wedding stuff can be the pits. Everyone is edgy and little things turn into a war. How odd that both sons are fighting....when one already has his wife's name and the other is about to do the same thing. Is this a protective thing for you and your husband (from your older son)? I do hope, for all of your sakes,that things will simmer down a bit so that the ones doing it will think a little more rationally. I do know bad things can happen.....my spoiled-rotten step-daughter denied her Dad the joy of walking her down the aisle less than two months ago....because he couldn't give the "right amount" of money toward the wedding. On her wedding day, he stayed home angry, crying and completely beside himself. It was awful. So, yes, I do know about evil young women and the control they have. So sorry, Hannelore, I pray it all works out. Keep us posted.

Prepare to attend the wedding anyway, Hannelore. Your older son's attitude might change close to the date i.e. he would want his brother there. Your sons will make up, especially so when the family dynamics have always been close. With all the calmness you can muster, try to keep your communication line with him and the future DIL open. These things often get out of hand when both or all the parties are at loggerheads. Often a contrary attitude, to that which your older son would perhaps expect, might resolve things i.e. a better atmosphere than now.

Hope things resolve between your 2 sons.

Very important to attend your son's wedding --regardless of feelings amongst sons. Your son greatly needs your parental presence at this important life event for him. I am certain he is proud to be the son of you and hubby. You must be there.

I am saying this because my parents strongly opposed my sister's interracial marriage. They did not attend at that time. The lst one that occurred in our family. It took....10 years for the terrible conflict to die out.

I stress....attend this wedding ..because you love your son. It is the strongest signal.

I think your suggestion is good Anne. At this point though, I don't care if my son calls himself Cock-a Doodle -Doo...a name seems so irrelevant now.

Orchid, I took it to heart what you wrote about being there at my son's wedding no matter what. I'm really torn about this. My other son just reacted in our behalf, and now he's been "uninvited"!! I'm feeling more loyal to him, so I don't know really. I hope Lola is right and when the wedding date nears, my older son will come to his senses.

Lady Jane, it is amazing how egotistical and cruel adult children can be. That must have been devastating for your husband.

I'm trying to think positively despite everything...Infact my husband has been joking about the situation all day. I don’t think he really believes this is happening. Even my Mom has taken sides and said we could all head for the hills on my son’s wedding day and stuff ourselves till we roll off some friggin’ mountain.

I just had a drink. Can you tell?

Hannelore, What you said about your son's living situation with this woman and her family, causes me to think that she, and possibly her family, are very happy that your son's family has excluded themselves from the wedding, and that this chain of events fits right in with her plans. I say this because when my husband and I went to our sons wedding in April, my new daughter-in-law's mother made it very clear to me that I was not wanted or needed at the wedding. She was very nasty all week long and made it very clear that as far as she was concerned she could fill the role of mother of the bride and groom. This woman did every thing she could to put herself between me and my son. It was an amazing thing to watch. Might your future daughter-in-law be jealous of the relationship that your son has with his family?

I know the pain that my husband and I have suffered because of this, and I sure hope that your family can get this reconciled before the wedding...

Hannalore,I've been reading as this drama goes on..
I wanted to say that you are staying very strong and I think that is admirable. It sounds like quite the drama and I agree with those who say that if you don't go you may regret it very much. HOWEVER, it is YOUR life and whatever makes you sleep at night is what you must do. We are not in your shoes and cannot say what you should do, we can only guess.
Stay strong, my friend, I'm pulling for you!
dancer

Aaaaah my dear friends. I just love you gals. You have no idea how you are all helping me cope (once again).

Yes, Lola. I’m going to call my younger son and share that quote from Shakespeare.

Quote:

---

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

---

What a perfect quote, and how very true. Maybe I’ll copy it and send it to my oldest son as well.

Dancer, If my sons don’t reconcile, I’ll probably have to go without my husband to the wedding. I imagine that I’ll feel more miserable there, then at home. The only solution is a ceasefire.

Muskateerette, you may be on to something there. Actually we get along with DIL’s parents very well. I don’t think they are behind this at all. This is just my DIL. She has a few problems that we could never really understand or relate to; like she hardly leaves the house, she has a terrible weight problem, and has built her cocoon nest the way she needs it around her. It could be that jealousy was once a factor, but it has turned to manipulation, stubbornness and control. My husband and I have never understood what our son sees in her, but we can only accept. There isn’t much else we can do.

Hannelore you are too funny. My name isn't Chatty Happy-Camper, I used that instead of my real name to make a point. I did however drop his name which I added to my own when we divorced...

What's in a name anyway? As long as they are happy and love and respect one another, right?

Hannelore, I have a feeling this will work its way out before the wedding arrives. That's waht I'm praying for. However, even if it doesn't, I think you should put your big girl panties on and dance at the wedding.

I know a man who did not go to his daughter's wedding and I have to think it's one of his biggest regrets in life. They settled their differences shortly after the wedding and have been very close since. Bu the hurtful fact still remains that he didn't go to his daughter's wedding.

Tomorrow afternoon we are having a sort of family conference. This whole thing has become so very ugly. I never would have dreamed of such scenarios,...and it's all instigated by my older son! It's like he's snapped. But at least he’s willing to come over and talk it out with us and his brother. I’m grasping on to any sign of hope now.

I'm going to take a valium. Believe me, I never take those things...but I have a feeling I'll need it tomorrow. If anyone has any prayers left…I could use them.
Thank you.

Hannelore, I have a whole lot of prayers left, and I am spending a lot of them on you. Best wishes and all my love coming your way.

Hope you attend the wedding --no matter what the outcome of the family meeting will be.

Parents and other family members have to remember....it's not about themselves, but about the long-term happiness of the individuals who are getting married.

I would like to add...here...I made a serious mistake when I caved in to parental pressure and did not attend my sister's wedding (the one that they ostracized for 10 years because of marrying a white guy).

I had to (deservedly) deal with the anger and pain from my sister directly for quite awhile....even though she did understand how much pressure her siblings were subjected to by parents.

This is the sister, who is the mother of now a adult daughter who is now an engineer and adult son who was a competitive swimmer, now university student. Yes, my parents are proud of their grandchildren and all is well.

It's a long terrible road when a parent does not attend a child's wedding.


My sister celebrates her 25th weddding anniversary this year.

It is more important than this argument over potential last name change...that the couple are well-matched.

Hannelore,
Good luck with this. I have the experience of not being invited, along with my sisters, to my brother's wedding. We did not get along with my father who abused us to a level that is record, so they invited my father and not us. They only invited him and my stepmother and fell out with them shortly afterwards.
This has created a riff that has lasted years and years. My sister in law still does not respect us so we do not respect her. We are an Italian family, my father is first generation from Italy to Santa Barbara, Ca. We are a proud family and after that wedding, well...we just didn't care anymore and lost touch with our brother. My SIL could have reached out to us and made us part of their lives but said we intimidated her and cut us out at the wedding. It remains a problem. My sisters have not spoken to my brother in almost 20 years.

If you can solve this, I hope you do. It's not your fault but finding out the base problem might be important.

It was not until I saw my sister in law many years later that she confessed to being intimadated by us and so she cut us out. She was still intimadated by me, she told me and she never warmed up. Hopefully you can find the culprit and find the problem and solve it.
If you cannot, it is not your fault. Anymore than my SIL's feelings toward my sisters and I is my fault. We are not to blame for the small hearts of others. We can only forgive and go on.
Good luck, Hannelore. I'll keep you in my thoughts. You've mentioned you think your soon to be DIL might have something to do with this, follow your instincts. I can tell you are a loving woman.
dancer

Hannelore, please go into this with an open mind and without your own agenda.Don't be hell bent on getting your way because then I think anger will shine through.

Try to react in love with the idea of keeping peace within the family and hopefully, since you have a loving family, you will have a good outcome.

I'll be praying for you. Just did - again.

I waited to post Hannelore. Seems as if we have the years when we are "in charge" then the tribe grows.But this woman wanting not to use YOUR tribe name is being passively aggresive.I feel this is a hint of things to come.So I feel you must go to the wedding.Stay together...safety in numbers.
By being so understanding and deep thinking for the first son marriage name you left the portcullis up for this.
The selfish bride is pulling strings...really she should keep her name if she chooses but not at the expense of your sons.
By accepting the invitation to the wedding you are doing the best thing long term.Write a loving letter to your son...have husband sign it and "cleft your troth" to your home unit.
I am behind you ...but even after waiting I would like five minutes alone with the bride to be...
Sorry if I have sounded off...its all so needless.
Mountain ash

Hello my friends. Just wanted to let you know our little family has agreed to a cease fire.

In German there is a saying; “The smarter one gives in.”…Well guess Hubby and I are the geniuses. Our son has taken on his fiancé’s last name.

That wasn’t the issue anymore, though. Our son was terribly aggressive and angry about us all not accepting it…and now we know why. It’s because he had already changed his name at the notary before he even consulted us. Maybe after all our arguments, he regretted changing it…and found no other way then to lash out at us. That could explain his behaviour.

I’m just trying to find comfort in the fact that there is peace between the brothers. He also took me in his arms and told me how he loves me and is sorry that he was such a mean bully. (He really was awful!)

Last week I had written a funny, but emotional touching poem to read at the wedding. I don’t know yet if I can still do it,…especially about the part about us being so happy about gaining a daughter….


… I know, I know… I have to come to terms with it, and find peace within myself. I’ll try, I really will. … There is one comforting thought in all this. They are expecting a baby in February …and someday this baby will grow up ….and be independent and do whatever it wants to do as well. Now it’s their turn to be parents and deal with all that comes with it.

tee hee

Thank you all for your prayers and all your valuable advice. It truly helped me stay calm ( No, I didn’t take any valium), and think; “whatever shall be…will be”. Oh and Mountain Ash, would you like my DIL’s address? You made me lol. Thank you.

I love your little icons in latest message above, Hannelore. Well, you could always adjust your poem at speech time abit...by simply wishing the couple a happy marriage....full of learning and....humility.

Glad to know it all worked out well, Hannelore. And, that you did not have to pop a pill

Whew! I'm SO happy this worked out! I have son's and for your son to hug you and admit his behavior was just great! Congratulations. I, too, do not understand his name change! It's so strange and it is so to anyone I tell the story to! But ~ you are right, of course, let peace rein!
Still, it'd be nice if your grandbabies took your name, at least one of them!
dancer, very happy for you.

A dear friend who was a nurse...we shared issues about a teacher(serious) we were sounding off about this witch.Long time ago now.
She wanted five minutes with her in a nursing situation .Witch in bed Norah the nurse.I asked what she would do.She said she would be as kind as she could be.I learned somethin that day.MY five minutes would have been unlike my dear Norahs.Alas I felt angry.

Sounds as if you are right .You know your son well.He was defending what he had done...OOPs.
well done you and hubby

Hannelore, from all yur postings about your family and all you do together, I had a feeling this would work out. What a lovely son to apologize and admit he was a bully. I bet that felt so good.

Yes, it felt good Dotsie...but it still didn't change the fact that he isn't carrying our name anymore. I'm upset with myself that it upsets me like this. Jeesh... didn't know I could think so shallow. Nothing like another self revelation at my age. ugh. Really helped to vent here, and thanks everbody for being there with me.

Soooo hush thwarted heart, don't let out a sigh
Why he'll always be my boy, yes ... that funny named guy
Little boy kisses, pudgy hands, chocolate smile
Mama holds on too long; let lose and say good-bye.

A mother never says goodbye Hannelore. My mom is 87 and she worries about me even though I am a senior citizen with adult sons raising their own children. Its a vicious circle, a mothers love is ENDLESS and FOREVER...

Well guess this...our local paper has an article today where a husband took his wife's name after marriage.They say it because of her children..to keep them as they were.So this is an echo (although different)there is a photo of a lovely couple.
Mountain ash

Never say goodbye! He's still your little boy and always will be. HE just belongs to someone else first.

Mountain, what a coincidence.

Just for fun, I Googled "Taking woman's last name." Hannelore, check it out. There are some articles about it. It might be good to read different perspectives.

Ha! Just had a ball reading the comments on men taking on their wives names. Thanks for the tip Dotsie. From what I have read,...men called the men, who dropped their family names; wimps,...and the women called those guys liberated.
Oh well,...maybe a bit of both is true.

I've been running around like crazy, and no time to post much -- but I'm really really glad this all worked out to keep the communication open in the family. Good for you, Hannelore, no matter how difficult!

Thanks Casey. Got your news letter. I can see why you are so busy. Good going!

Hannelore, glad you got a chance to read them. It always helps to hear another perspective.

Tomorrow is wedding day, and all is well at the home front. Whew. Thanks again ladies for helping me push everything back into prospective and recognizing the priority of things, so that Hubby and I can enjoy the day watching our oldest son tie the knot. ( although there is something to that picture above... shhhh that's our secret. )


German weddings are a blast! The entire day is filled with speeches skits and jokes...and usually lasts till 5:00 in the morning!. We're giving the newly weds money for a new bed. I bought three night caps, which Hubby, my Mom and I will wear when we present our gift... ( nice bed linens, with a doll's bed propped on the package). We want to hand it over while singing a "Bed" song...and that as sexy as we can get. We've had so much fun practicing, hope we don't pee in our pants laughing when presenting our little show tomorrow. Although, ... it may bring them good luck!

Love the wedding cake pic!!! That's how I took my hubby LOL Hannelore, have a wonderful time....it sounds joyous and happy. Wish we could all be there to hear your song...maybe an online video later ?? Wishing you the best and thankfully things have turned out well. Also, and again, have a great time away afterward....you two deserve it !!!

ladyjane, wouldn't it be wild if all us boomer women could be the cheering section in the back?

Hannelore, have a wonderful day full of family, fun and love. Take photos!

Hannelore -- wishing you well, fun and lots of joy!

I'm thrilled for your family, Hannelore! Have a fabulous time and make it a day to remember!
dancer9

Hi girls, I’m back from Portugal!

Just to give you an update, our oldest son’s wedding was…hmmm…romantic? No, not really. It was a knee slapping guffaw laughing wedding. I think I could call it jolly? No other word comes to mind.

Everybody had a skit to do. And Eve, my new DIL, comes from an extremely musical family. So guitars were playing and raunchy songs were sung. A lot of Beatle songs too! You gals would have loved that. People got happy drunk, and some fell off their chairs…but no more mishaps then that. I sang so much that I couldn't get a tone out the next day. Hubby loved that.
My son looked so much in love, and I do believe he and his wife are a good match.So all is well in that department.

My little skit really came over big. Some were laughing tears…so that did this little (in the closet actress) soul good. Now we got both our sons under the lid…(so they say in German)…

Lalala…life goes on.


Oh…here is a picture at the notary before they signed…..
(We don’t have the wedding pictures yet)


And AFTER……

Hey Hannelore! Sounds like a screaming-good time for all! So glad it went off well....loved the pics! Welcome home again!

Thanks for sharing your happy day...May they be happy.
Mountain ash

What fun! That's the way a marriage should start. They look so happy.

Wow! Thanks for sharing the photos! They look very happy and it looks like, as you said, a "jolly," time! How great for you! I'm glad everything worked out and you had such a good time. Congratulations on your new DIL!
dancer