Hi all…I’m not sure if this is the best place to post this or not…it really doesn’t seem like mental illness…so I though Fine Whine might be better…here goes…

I recently read that 85% of our population has issues with self-esteem in at least one area of their lives…I know that I certainly have had mine…and still do, for that matter…I know that in working with coaching clients…and just talking with friends…that almost everything we’re going through usually boils down to a low self-esteem in that area.

For most of my life…my issues were around relationships…and wa-la…the quality of my relationships mirrored my own sense of self-worth…but…it didn’t stop there…it never does…the proverbial bad apple…before too many years…it spilled over into my relationship with money…and even my beliefs in my professional abilities…and I sort of hit a personal rock bottom…

Obviously…that wasn’t where I wanted to be…I’ve spent several years building self-esteem…I’ve read so many good books…listened to good tapes…prayed…done affirmations…acknowledged my actions…practiced gratitude…journaled…those are the kinds of things that work for me…

What I’m wondering…what works for you…what kind of practices do you do now…or did in the past…to build your self-esteem…did you have an Ahh-Ha moment that changed your opinion of yourself…that kind of thing…

I am considering doing a Bertha series on this…and would like as many different insights as possible…

Thanks…

This is an excellent post Jane and I can pinpoint almost to the day when I had my "aha" moment. I worked for a VP and he was very moody. He had a hard time keeping help because he was so harsh and outspoken. I was determined to stay with little snot but he was chipping away at my self-esteem and I was allowing it to happen. Little by little he would say something derogatory about my performance in front of his other VP peers and it was so embarrassing. He was an emotional bully. He was also a small man and finally I realized that he had the "big me, little you" complex. He knew I needed a job and would take it. But what he didn't count on was my "raising."

One day I was mulling over what to do about him when something Daddy told me hit me. You are worth what YOU-----YOU think you are worth. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. They can insinuate anything they want to, but only YOU can make YOU feel bad about it. If it isn't true, then why would you believe it anyway?"

I remember I was so fed up with him and had been in the bathroom crying and sulking. Then I thought, "What's the worst thing that can happen? He can only fire me once." From that day forward I would bite him back whenever he insulted me in front of our co-workers. I did it gradually, and I did it with "wit" and guess what? He loved it. He started treating me with respect, little by little of course, but our working relationship changed.

And it changed with the way HIS peers (other VPs) treated me as well because by that time I had grown in the self-esteem department and noooooooooooobody was gonna make me feel bad, or I should say "infer" something and then I would make my own self feel bad. NOBODY.

Life changed for me that day. I started looking at everyone differently. I was no longer afraid. Does that make sense?

I still have some issues and I would discuss those with you, but then I'd have to kill you.

I was always a very shy child and had no self-esteem whatsoever. I know it was my upbringing; overly strict, "children may be seen and not heard" and so on. Still I want to add I never felt unloved…but maybe unworthy?

My low self-esteem manifested itself in many ways. I never raised my hand in class…although I knew the answer. When my stories were read, I signalled to the teacher not to mention that I was the author. Large groups of people intimidated me. I always stood on the side wondering how I could be one of those laughing girls clinging on to each others shoulders.

My self-esteem found itself for the first time when I was accepted to Pan Am. I was always surprised when someone admired my career. I never had known admiration before.

Later in life it increased when I wrote and produced two children's plays. I did it all on my own, although I had many offers to help. I wanted, for once, to get all the credit. And indeed I did, with newspaper articles and such.

But the biggest leap to a "normal" self-esteem happened when I started my own business. Before that I worked for a large real-estate company, and was the top sales person for two years. That motivated me into opening my own business and hiring up to 7 agents to work for me. It was a success. Through this I learned that I can stand up for myself. Say no…and not care what others may say. I have learned that my self-respect is something I need and can rely on, and that no one can ever take it away from me.

My build up was for a while a problem in my marriage. I was no longer the meek little yes- yes woman. I put my foot down when it was necessary, and I do the same in my business. And most importantly I do it without and regrets or second thoughts.

Self-esteem is liberating and healthy.

Jane you have your own radio program! You can cry from the rooftops that you are proud! And you have every right to be. Hope this information will help you with your new Bertha series.

Wow, this topic sure hits home! I was constantly belittled as a child - by my parents. I could never be good enough for them. I guess I never really had an 'AHA' moment. My recovery was gradual - after I realized that it really wasn't my fault that my hubby was an alcoholic and drug abuser (something he kept telling me all our married life.) He is long gone, and my self esteem can still be shaky. But I have decided that I'm worth it, I'm good enough, and whatever others think about me has nothing to do with me but is all about them. Every time I hear myself say, "I can't do that" I tell myself that 'yes, I can,' if that's what I really want to do. I can't please anyone else but me.

My parents tried putting me down again when I went to college for the first time at almost 40. I didn't listen to them and went on to earn a master's. I'm proud of my accomplishments now, no matter how small they seem to someone else, to me they're huge! My current partner admires me, and that has really helped. One other thing I just thought about is being able to accept compliments with just a 'thank you.' I used to turn away compliments by saying things like 'it was nothing' or 'it's no big deal.' But it is a big deal because it means I'm being noticed and am no longer the cringing wallflower hiding in the corner. And it feels great!

JJ and HL...thank you so much for those great responses...and yes...I am proud...

Isn't it interesting that we can feel loved and unlovable at the same time...I don't think I've ever thought about it in just that way...thanks HL...I knew I'd get some great insights from this...

JJ...could you tell me more...and then just banish me to the moat or something...inquiring minds...you know

You know . . . you die. There's not a reMOAT chance of me telling. So quit begging.

Yonuh, I couldn't agree more with you. Learning to just say "thank you" when someone complimented me was a bigee for me. Someone finally told me that the reason I would "poo poo" their compliment was that deep down I didn't feel I deserved it. Boy, was that an eye-opener! I had to mentally learn to accept the compliment (this doesn't include begging or fishing for one).

It is a very good lesson to learn and we should all practice it. When the THANK YOU becomes sincere, and it will, then you have learned to love yourself. And we should!

I'm glad you posted this, Jane. I can whine about my self-esteem issues. I know my father loved me, but he lost his temper a lot and called me stupid and I believed him for a long, long time.

I find my self-esteem under my feet many times when I'm not expecting to, especially after I've done something I feel really, really good about. I don't understand it, but I suspect the old tapes are still there (I know the feelings are) and I don't believe I deserve to feel good and proud.

I've had several AHA moments and now I catch the bad tapes in my head and turn them into good ones. Anne Lamont's book Bird By Bird was great for me. I see things in other people that remind me that I'm good enough or remind me why I think I'm not. My process is on-going. I'm happy to say I come here often to turn myself around. Bless you all.

Yonuh...you go girl...sounds like you've come a long way and accomplished a lot...that is awesome...

Saundra...it's great that you recognize the old tapes and turn them around...I think hearing the tapes as you think them is one of the most difficult things to do...

And what better place to turn yourself around than right here on the boomer boards...sounds liket the hokey pokey...

I struggle with self-esteem issues almost daily. I've learned and continue to learn, to separate myself from those who diminish my self-esteem, even family. Although minute to others, small accomplishments I keep to myself to alleviate being sabotaged or critized, as well as larger accomplishments b/c others may diminish the value. Sadly, I found myself treating others the same, now I'm begning to quitely praise others w/out bringing attention to myself b/c some things require genuine recognition without interuption.

Jane, the hokey-pokey it is. I guess we did learn everything we need to know in kindergarten. I bet I hear that song in my head for a week. Thanks.

I could write a book about struggling with low (non-existent) self-esteem all my life. Wait, I think I did write a book...well, I could write a dozen more books and still not be done. Sigh. I call it "mangled thinking", and have managed to find various 'ladders' along the way to help me climb out of the hell-hole that my own mangled thinking keeps throwing me into. Like choosing (daily, if not moment by moment) to believe that I'm loved more than I could ever imagine and choosing to believe in the whole concept of "wounded healers" - because believing in that concept allows me to give meaning to everything that has happened in my life and turns regret into wisdom and perceived failure into triumphant power.

I would have to say that "regret" is probably the largest contributing factor to my low self-esteem, namely the inability to just let the past stay in the past and allow myself to move on with the wisdom learned from those mistakes. It takes more energy than I sometimes can muster to untangle my mangled thinking enough to change my focus from "regret" to living in my here-and-now with any semblance of confidence.

Being at BWS has been an extraordinarily life-changing experience - this place and the wisdom within these cyber-halls have been my most sturdy, powerful and healing "ladder" out of that mangled thinking - for the first time in my life, I actually feel like I'm winning...and the prize? ME!

(wow, do you have any idea how hard it was to write - and leave written - that "ME"??? See? Isn't that amazing?)

Great post Jane. I think at this time in our lives we have the luxury of being able to look back and evaluate where we have been, the struggles we have conquered, the mountains we have climbed, what we have achieved personally, and what we want to acheive with the rest of our lives. This little exercise on it's own can be a wonderful boost to our self esteem as we reflect on our acheivements over the years.

I believe our self esteem should be nutured daily as it can be so fragile at different times in our lives and can be so difficult to build up once someone, or events in our lives have cut it down.

It is interesting to see that there is a 'childhood' theme already starting to surface here in our responses. I too was effected by this time in my life. As a child I think we are particularly suseptable to comments and actions from adults, and they can impact greatly on us for many years, if not for the rest of our lives if we allow it.

If I could give one 'self esteem tip' that has had the greatest result in raising my self esteem - I would say 'choose very carefully who you hang out with'
Over the years I have hung out with the best, and not so best of society, and the best are streets ahead of the rest. The best people will nuture your self esteem by expressing their appreciation, by supporting your goals, by encouraging you, by giving you a pat on the back, by getting excited with you, by telling you that you've done a great job, etc ...... The others wont. It's easy to spot the difference and your self esteem will thank you for it.

Eagle...it is hard to write ME! and mean it...interesting that you should mention the wounded healers...I just made a committment yesterday to share both my missteps and my foot steps...as what I am giving to the world...the foot steps are easier to share...

Sharon...you are so right about the people we hang out with...that is one of the great things about hanging out here...we are supportive of each other...

Occasionally I have wondered what if I was raised in a predominantly Asian society/culture instead of non-Asian, would my own positive self-esteem have taken this long to develop?

I know for certain, to become who I am and raised in North America in areas where the Asian community was nearly non-existent, means a child/teenager spends (wastes?) alot of energy/anxiety trying to conform/live up to expectations of coolness and rejecting anything that speaks/looks embarrasingly immigrant (foreign accents, strange clothing, foods).

On the other hand, if I didn't allow myself to be beaten down too much, you start to realize that you did survive through strange, tough childhood/teenage years that others just never underwent. Then you know you have a certain inner strength that you wish the younger generation would have experienced...and get this type of tough love /character-building.

part of the self-esteem development problems got muddled up with expectations from parents, who with good intentions wanted highly educated children, earning good salaries, living a "safe" life. And I wanted it too but it does mean muffling/delaying a pile of other unknown/latent skills and life experiences.

All of this made me a shy nerdy gal. My voice didn't speak out in crowds, meetings until I was in my early 30's. Unbelievable. Now I enjoy instructing and presenting to groups. I no ...longer...care...what ..other people think.

What a great topic Jane. It's so rich with honesty.

I know some of you may think I'm a Jesus freak, but it works for me so I won't apologize.I draw my self-confidence from the Lord, and by being in the Word on almost a daily basis. When I read His words about all He wants for me and how good I am in His sight, I believe it and it gives me tremendous confidence.

However, I must share that there are a few days a month that I doubt, and that's when I'm running out of estrogen. Go figure.

So much of the self-esteem factor at midlife has to do with a couple things. One is that we have lived long enough not to care what others think, like orchid stated. That helps. We are shedding the words that have damaged us from our pasts and learning that life is all about change and change can be a good thing.

However ladies, please don't forget to take into account the estrogen issue and the perimenopause and menopause issues. These things can get us feeling down and there's help for that if needed.

I was speaking with a woman last week who has been feeling down for 5-6 years and never took into account that it could be hormonal. I couldn't believe my ears.

This is an issue I've dealt with since I was about 14. 53 now and still no self-esteem. Now in menopause and I do agree Dotsie, the hormones make it worse. They really can do a number on the thought processes. I wish I could tell myself..I'm pretty, smart, likeable, have a good soul and then the big test..is really BELIEVING it I hope you ladies can give me advice on once and for all learning to "not care what others think" This is a big issue for me and many women.

Blessings~Madalyn

Madalyn, too much self esteem isn't good either. There is a fine line between healthy self -esteem and conceit. Infact if you are a humble person, that is a beautiful quality within itself, and so very rare. But the irony is; the fact that you had the courage to admit your lack of self esteem, takes self esteem.

Okay, I can't resist...I found some good quotes that may help build up self-esteem. (Speaking of self esteem, I think I'm the quote queen here..heh heh)

* Attitude: "It's our attitude in life that determines life's attitude toward us."
--Earl Nightingale

* The greatest thing in the world is to know how to belong to oneself.
-- Michel de Montaigne

'* The truth is that there is nothing noble in being superior to somebody else. The only real nobility is in being superior to your former self.
-- Whitney Young

* If you want to be respected, you must respect yourself.
-- Spanish Proverb


Hannelore

So many wonderful posts! Dotsie...seeing you live your faith is a gift for all of us...thank you...

Orchid...how wonderful that you found your voice...I think it's very difficult for children to grow up feeling different in any way...I hope this up and coming generation will be able to realize that our uniqueness is a gift...

Madalyn...I agree with HL...it takes courage and self-esteem to post our words here...you rock! One techinque that I know works is to write down your accomplishments every day...you can set a number...but at least 5 or 10...they don't have to be huge things...even posting on BWS is an accomplishment...then beside each accomplishment...acknowledge yourself by writing why it is important or why it makes you proud...this step really shows you your courage and strength...a third step is to look in the mirror and say..."Madalyn, I am proud of you for_____"

Try it and let me know what you think...

Hannelore~I'm very humble, my children tell me I am. That made me feel good when you said that it's a rare quality. My mom is just the opposite, she is rather narcisstic and brags alot. You'd never know she gave birth to me. Great quotes! Love Them... Thank You!

Jane~~ I think writing down our accomplishments is a great idea! Deep down I know I have them, I'll try to do 5 a day, like right now I'm making a big pot of soup..so theres 2 already, I'm humble and I can cook.

Thank You Girls~~Your very kind ((((Hugs)))

Dotsie, how do you explain low self-esteem hormones after menopause?

flux of hormones brought about changies is self perception for me but i dont know the reasoning either, just thats how it was!


i had a few aha moments that brought about immidiant change in a big way but gradulie faded to a lesser thing....i think my esteem needs worked on dailie for max results and few times a week to make me berable to live with lol. I try to rember and focus on achivments that weer difficult at the time and not minimise them, try to do wee acts of kindness dailie so i get to feel good about myself at the end of the day, A QUOTE FROM DAD "if you want to feel proud then do something to be proud off".

I also try to pick things that are about my nature instead of things i have or have achived.....my nature and my experinces and how i interfaced them, is what makes me solie me, the unikness .

So jane, i do thought, focus memories (at times) but most importantlie action (even if its onlie me that knows about it)...

loved reading all you ladies attitudes to this hope the thread gose on for a bit more

i had a big dip in self esteem....i had wonderfull news via a call while in waiting room for Doctors...then the doc got me few minuets later and everiething hit rock bottom...(no nuthing seriouse wrong with helth just what you all know about allreadie) i been picking myself up from it for the rest of the afternoon and evening...i would cry but i cant get the tears to materilizes, i did something nice for po, the rest of time was doing dinner and usule stuff (that cant stop for all the world lol people need feeding) . I wonderring what i can do nice for me apart from time on heer....i think a bit of praying and hopefullie tommorow it be changed and repaired a bit....thats it at times i think esteem needs rapairing as well as maintaining...
so Anybodie wanna say how they fix or repaire their esteem?

Whenever I get negative thoughts/feelings, I allow myself a set period of time to 'wallow' in whatever it is. Then I have to tell myself that time's up, and focus on the good. Some days it's more of a struggle than others, but having a journal helps. Mine is a list of accomplishments - I'm trying to list everything I've accomplished in my life, and that seems never-ending. I also have a gratitude journal where I catalog things to be thankful for. I've become much better at the gratitude thing and can even be thankful for things like having a pile of dirty laundry or having a problem with the car.

Fixing or maintaining self-esteem takes practice, practice, practice. I have to have my positives lined up before I get in a funk, because when I'm down it's really difficult to find something positive to think about.

Hope this helps.

I think this is a life long learning process...I keep thinking I'm "done" and then the darn thing sneaks up on me again!

Journaling is definitly a life-savor. So is meditation and long walks...and making love. I think it's mainly an inside job. The greatest tool I've found is the questions of Katie Byron that I've mentioned here before. (www.thework.com). As soon as I remember it's my THOUGHTS that are making me miserable and I can change the thoughts, I'm on my way to a smile.

However, I agree with yonuh, sometimes wallowing with a pint of ice cream is just plane delicious in a sick sort of way!

Celtic...I'm with you...it seems like one minute I'm on the top of the world...and then I come tumbling down...what I've learned is...it's not the tumbling down that matters...it's how quickly I can get back up that counts...

yonuh...I agree...sometimes you just gotta wallow...I like your accomplishments and gratitude practice...I believe those really work...

Casey...definitely a life long process!

For me...sometimes it takes the form of...I know how wonderful I am...but I don't think anyone else will ever believe it...like...I know I'm a great writer...but I think other people won't like my work...the interesting thing is...when you get in those moods...even when people compliment you...you don't hear them...or believe them...now...we all know that was just an example...we all know I am a great writer...LOL!...

A life long process.

Sorry you lost a bit of the self esteem, Celtic. Will you be able to join in on the book group? The first chapter has some info on self esteem. Check out the thread, who am I again?

I do think postive self talk helps, but you have got to do it daily - preventative, I guess - and pretty soon it becomes a habit to think positively about yourself.

Some of us are luckier in that (so far) reaching /in menopause has been smoother and less horomonal disruptive reactions.

Unless I'm in considerable pain (which has been very rare so far), I don't allow my partner to suggest if I am feeling off/low in self-esteem, that it's hormonal. Usually I know the real reasons,...much of it rooted in fears of certain major decisions to be made, what may happen in future or how others are behaving towards to me.

Part of what seems to work for me, is not consciously think about self-esteem, but more of how I can do well about something.

Some breaking of barriers for myself to healthy self-esteem, is developing a healthy sense of justice for others and for community. When you know of something deeply wrong happening to other(s) who you know, it gives you powerful incentive to speak out /act.

This goes along with something I experienced last week. One of the guys who works for my husband and is also my close friend, introduced me to his long time girlfriend who is in her late 40's. I could NOT get the woman to talk to me and I can talk to a stop sign. I would get a nod of her head in either yes or no. I finally gave up.

On the drive home, I was angry. There is something that goes beyond being shy or quiet and I think it's someone being so involved with themselves and what others think that it becomes selfish. Like the world revolves on what others think of them. I don't understand how you can reach that age and act that way.

I digress. If we could really see ourselves as others saw us I believe the low self-esteem issues would go away. We can be our own worst enemies. I had a friend who was the perfect wife, hostess and mother. To be invited to her home for dinner was a great experienced. I was talking to her on the phone one day and told her I'd like to be more like her and she started crying. She told me she would give anything to be like me. So, we view ourselves with a negative eye many times.

Is there anyone who hasn't struggled with low self esteem? We could probably write a great book about it.

JJ, I think it is a great talent or gift to be able to deflect those jabs with quick wit and humor. Do you have any tips for the rest of us?

I know that I get so flustered when someone puts me down that I rarely say anything. I'm either shocked or hurt that something was said. If I react at all it is in anger which only fuels their belief that they are somehow superior or above me. Or I can't think of anything, stand there with a pasted-on-polite smile and think of 15 creative things after its too late--then of course I spend the rest of the evening stewing over it and being angry with myself for not saying anything.

I wish I could send good zingers back immediately, I definitely think its a gift. What can you teach us about this?

Anne, she wouldn't talk to my husband either or the other guy who was with us or his wife. Just weird. I told her if she wanted to go shopping this week to give me a call and she just kind of looked at me. Oh well...

Zingers...you have to have some stored up, ready to use. One of my husband's friends and I are always giving each other a bad time. I used a Maxine line on him..."Wipe the corner of your mouth, you still have some BS on your lip." He started to reach for the napkin before he got it. Or you can just tell them they have you confused for someone who cares.

While I don't have an answer to this question, it may depend on who you are dealing with.

One thing I've learned: Value and respect yourself. It's the best tool yet. Valueing and respecting yourself usually generates respect.

There's a few instances I remember when a certain person has attempted to put me down and I've stopped this person. Of course, they don't expect it. But it has stopped the mean or derogatory comment right away. With a simple: "You have no right to disrespect me or put me down" or a "Watch how you refer to me, please".

I wish you success in your quest for self esteem.

I honestly believe that people who put other people down and critize them...actually have very low self-esteem...and they are also covering it up...I'll jab them before they can jab me...

In order to do zingers...first I think you have to have that type of personality...and be playful about it...my sister used to have a saying...'don't get in a puking match with a buzard'...I never knew quite where it came from but...sometimes...when you zing...they zag...in a big way...you may not be prepared to handle that zag...so be careful...I think you have to pick your sparring partners...

I agree that we all have self-esteem issues...in at least one area of our lives...it's interesting that we almost automatically assume that other people have it 'all together' when they are just like us...

I can't remember where I heard this, and I may not translate it correctly either, but I really liked it when I heard it - maybe someone else knows the actual quote and can say it better, but this is what I remember:

"There is never any justification for extinguishing someone else's candle in order to make yours shine brighter."

I know that for so much of my life I had such a difficult time, first, believing that I had a light worth shining, and second, actually daring to shine it out there. It's only because others encouraged me to shine, allowed my light to continue to shine and helped me to keep it shining bright that I was able to finally believe in myself and in the worthwhileness of each person's light, no matter how feeble it might seem.

So I cannot fathom going around extinguishing other people's lights in order to make myself feel better. Instead of preparing zingers (which my oatmeal-mush brain can't remember anyway, LOL) I try to remember to find ways to turn the situation around and draw out any flicker of light from the person, even if that sometimes means allowing it to overshadow mine. I can't always do it, sometimes I'm just too weary and hurt, but I figure there's enough darkness in the world today, we need to enkindle all and any flicker of light we can possibly muster...and then when we turn the zinger into positive energy, we're rippling more light instead of yet more darkness.

Not that I can do it yet...I'm more likely to just crawl home sobbing all the way...still, it's one way I try to counter my own self-esteem issues - by building up others instead of tearing them down.

wow eagle nice stratigie or intension even if its as you say some days just too tired or soar to do it..whish i could do it

I try to rember "other people often see the world as they are not as you are" or "thats a matter of your perception and your welcome to it"

if i think/know its just nonsences or an attack then i laugh and tell them "i wholehartidlie agree with you your absolutlie right" why dose it work, as deflection lol somepeople are backfooted becouse they expect a fight or for you to disagree with them lol...which i not gonna do with someone thats onlie looking to attacke thefore pull me down, via my personalitie!!...


if its someone i know and trust to have my best intrests at hart and are trying to tell me something tough then thats diffrent (even if my esteem dose suffer or ego more to the point) that "i say i will consider their point and they may be right" if they'r right after all then fair and good i may do something about it, if not i wont change anything over and above reviewing the situasion.

well the doc floored me and i was soar and it wassss allll to harddd lol..but lo and behold next morning i had generated enough whatever to see things in a diffrent light, to get my shoulder behind it as to say, so i made my planes that take me in the goal or direction i want to go in...will it be tough yep but i try anyway....

besides i woke up sick next day turned out i had shingles (it took untill then for them to appear) and it down my face and bodie so maybee they (the virus) has been working on me for week and making me a bit more sensitive wearas i though i was a bit extra tired as i am always soar anyway ....

Oh i also like the sound of a pint of ice-cream, do you have to eat it ALL....dose one have choice, lol do I have choice more importantlie lol...

so untill i become a funnie wick witted genusie when i soar i stuck with my limited means lol...In ireland their a thing called "slaggging" and thats when people have a verbal sparring match for fun or to see who can be the wittiest or funniest...now when it dosent count like this instances and i alreadiy laughing then i get good returnes but not when its seriouse ah well..

this dose fit with chapter 1 of the book club then eh! good tie in jane and anno

I think I just have a "zinger" personality.

I just read this today:

One of those absolute truths is that we are NOT born equal. We have to realize that we all come in different packages and must learn to value the difference. Only humans find it necessary to compare themselves to others. It's great if you're using the comparison as a measure of what you could learn to do better or appreciate about what someone else brings to a relationship. All too often, however, that 's not the case and the comparison is forged out of insecurity and indelibly comes at someone's expense, including our own.

I found that statement interesting.

Great quote Dianne! So often when we compare ourselves to others it's like comparing apples to ducks...

I can take and throw a few zingers...as long as I know the person that I'm zinging with...and know they are being playful as well...if I think they are serious...I'm just crushed and silent...

Celtic...so sorry you have shingles...hope you feel better soon...

Eagle...what a beautiful practice...

Celtic, you are a brave little one! Shingles is supposed to cause horrible pain. Show us more of your self-esteem and wail to your hearts delight.
I'm sending you my bestest wishes for a "speed- as- fast- as- light", recovery!
Hugs


Dianne, every once in a while I come across non-talking non- emotion kind of people like you described in your post. I will never learn. I usually try to get some kind of reaction from them. The more I try the more close mouthed they get. I can't understand people like that. But I have finally realized it's not because of me ... they are that way with everyone. So it's their problem.

I have known people in my lifetime that would use SILENCE as an attention getter. Some people use being loud, others use silence. They are so insecure, or have so many demons that we don't know about. So in a sense, it is a cry to "look at me!" Sounds crazy, doesn't it? But it's a "walk a mile in my shoes," type thing I suppose?

So whenever I've encountered someone like the woman Dianne had dinner with, I think silently to myself, "she/he must have some problems I can't see. Wonder what her/his demons are."

I can't help it. I just know in my heart that there is a reason for the silence. So its definitely not YOU Dianne. My guess is that it is as everyone else has implied; it is her own insecurities.

Does any of this make sense? Don't answer that!

I can be extremely quiet in social situations where I don't know anyone. (Put me on a stage and it's a totally different story! LOL!) I know that that quietness has intimidated people, or made people think that I'm extremely hard. So I've worked hard over the last 10 years to cultivate a small smile at all times and to focus on the person who is talking with all my presence. I still don't talk much, but they don't feel threatened.

Because I'm a word person, I can throw out the zingers, especially when I'm in a group of people I know. But a more effective question, perhaps, is "Why did you feel a need to say that?"

Great topic!

Quote:

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because I'm realizing more and more that very little of what people say is actually about "me", but more about them and their woundedness and need for affirmation.

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How true!

feeling better with the shingles the doc gave me good medicine....up untill i broke out in the rash things, i though oh a bit more tired than usule, oh a bit more soar than usule, oh several days with a migrane...etc.

then when i got as i though cold soars on my face i went to chemist..who told me go to docs now...who told me i had shingles. i swear i can be that thick at times!! That was the day after the first docs appontment were i felt crushed. I wonder if the upset and brake out is related but good point the meds stoping it progressing well and it missed my eye.

So i lost my oppertunitie to be verie sick (hehehe and stay in bed and eat chocolate) and MILK IT! to the max lol. so thanks for the well whishes ladies.

ZINGERS is the same as slagging over heer and it is good when its fun and i good at tit when its fun and cant think in same wittie way when it seriouse. Same past time diffrent language lol

CASY do you think you manage better in a group your leading becouse of the adreniline??

anyone got any thoughts if self-esteem is genetic or brain chemistrie that sets the level or if its just (just lol) life experinces that effect it and determine the level???

CASIE
that wee smile and attension bet that makes all the diffrences as it wont seem like your hostile but quite welcoming even if your not being verbal...

why is it that non speaking people that show no treats like you just mentioned casy are so tiring to be about. Is it becouse we think they dont like us? or is it just tiring when its all one sided with no return?

Gosh...it just worked on me.

Blink....please!!!!!


Popea

Ok.....keep it up then...but it won't be too long before I snog ya!!!!

Celtic, if a person doesn't speak I think we think of all kinds of nasty things they might be thinking about us -- not realizing that they probably aren't thinking about us at all! LOL!

I don't know why I do better on stage -- probably because I have a script and know what to say. Rather than trying to think of things on the spur of the moment to a stranger. Talking about the weather only goes so far and you all know I like the really juicy stuff that can get me in a lot of trouble!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY-aTOxkRf0

on a low day or one when your critisised or or no ones agreeing with you or your choises try a few chorises from this at full volum , lungs filled lol. it dose WONDERS LOL

ps their one verrse in the song about DV i dont agree with that but love the rest of the song....

Ain't Nobody's Business But Mine is a great old blues tune. She changed some of the words and a bit of the tune, but the meaning remains the same.

Anne, Yes, it is wonderful therapy! Toastmasters is a great way to get started with speaking. Even if you don't want to do anything formal, you get to know more about yourself and it comes in handy for those little things in life -- like wedding toasts!

We had a Doctor when I was a young mother who had been a navy Doctor.No bedside manner.He was off hand and I would come out of his office mot feeling listened to.

One day I had the aha moment...I said to him that I was Aftraid of coming..that his manner was brusque.But that his two sons were so nice to me that he must be kind really.
He warmed and took me seriously.I felt being brave got me somewhere that being quiet did not.
Mountain ash

Mountain Ash,

How wonderful that you were strong enough to stand up for yourself. That really took courage.

Funny how those men in white coats can be so intimidating.

Good for you Mountain Ash. And I bet you paved the way for the patients who came after you, …to come to a kinder and more sympathetic doctor.

Once again, the ladies on this board have been used their creativity to overcome a common challenge!

Dianne, I love your idea of writing down your accomplishments each day. This is a particularly good idea for me, since I'm still dealing with everyone knows what.

For most of my working life, I've been planning events and organizing recreational activities for seniors or school age children. I've had a lot of practice speaking in front of people. Actually, I have less anxiety when I'm working with people than when I'm alone. (It sounds silly, but I majored in Parks and Recreation. Program planning, budgeting, lots of psyc and sociology courses.)

I've had the opportunity to speak in front of others and I'm just "used to it." I truly believe that anyone can do the same, if given the chance.

Toastmasters is a good organization for those who need this opportunity to speak before a crowd.

Let me get off of here and let someone else speak!

Emily

Em...

I like to take writing accomplishments down one step further and add why doing it makes me proud...that helps me because sometimes things really don't look like a big deal at all...but they really are...