I wasn't sure where to put this. Celtic, could you explain dyslexia to me so I can get a better understanding? Do you just see words differently than others or is it more complex? What methods were used to help you overcome?

Dianne, not Celtic here, but an educational point of view on dyslexia.

The term dyslexia has come under a bit of controversy lately. There are those that believe that the word should be reserved for those that have the most severe of learning disabilites in reading. Many children and adults have LD (learning disabilities) in reading and there is quite a continuum of how they manifest themselves. Most importantly, LDs are most often found in people with above average intellegence.

A quote from research:

"Much of the current scientific research focuses on the hypothesis that dyslexia stems from a deficit in phonological awareness. This hypothesis suggests that affected individuals have difficulty analyzing the words they hear into discrete segments (such as phonemes), which in turn leads to difficulty learning spelling-sound correspondences."

It is unfortunate that educators, while well meaning, have very little understanding of the problems and identifing LD in students and often teaching methods exasperate the problem. The research on methods to overcome the problems is unclear and general education training does little to address the issue. It is a shame.

thanks for ansking di

dyslexia is the new black for bad spellers lol hehehe

School hit me over the head with rulers to encourage me to get and keep the word in my head lol it didn't work, nor did humiliasion etc....

it's went from no one knowing about it to everyone having it, as Anno said. The term been grossly misues with people jumping on the bandwagon so to speek without being tested for it and just to excouse the occasional mispealed word or gramatical mistack which is NORMAL lol....its a pity it just creates more confusion and misunderstanding.

thanks again for taking time and thought to aske di....pet

anno's answere is great and a good definision...i pushed for time tonight in a big way love, so i get back to answereing this as soon as i can...I also gotta think how to explaine it...

As an educater she may know the most recent thinking about it ans supporting research...i tell ya what it's like from the inside

celtic

Do you gals feel ADD is also overused? Seems like so many children have it. How did that happen?

Dianne, two of my children have ADD. Both have chosen to treat it differently. I totally believe it is over diagnosed, but I also believe that if you have ADD, medicine properly taken can be life changing.

I believe creative people can benefit from ADD in many aspects.

I think we are all on a spectrum of sorts for almost all disorders. We are a pill society and want to cure all our ills with medicine. I completely believe that medication is a good thing, but it can be overused.

Yes, it is over diagnosed, but for those that have a high degree of ADD, or any disorder, medication can be a godsend.

Some of the great artists of the world had mental disorders and we cherish many of their works. Yes, creative people can benefit from many "disorders" - or perhaps, just perhaps, our ideas of normal are very skewed.

...the new black...celtic, you crack me up.

Okay, my disorder is OCD. I remember it starting when I was about seven years old but I thought everybody counted. However, it really was bad in school because I had to count the buttons on the teachers shirt/dress, the maps or pictures on the wall before I would allow myself to listen to the teacher. While in therapy, I had the number of items in Dr. Bob's office memorized (13) and he would sometimes say, "You're counting, aren't you?" Then he would tell me it was okay, go ahead.

Then I was told I had slight ADD. At that point, I started crying. I was on meds for it for a while but no longer take anything. I've learned to stay focused.

Dots, what kind of therapy did your children use?

Celtic, how do they test? Anno, that is also a question for you too. I find it very interesting.

great you got that joke, kind of thought i had slipped it in and no one noticed lol.

sorrie its taken so long to get back in the rooms its been intresting few days.

Broccas area is over the left ear, relitivly small but in it is the LAD (language acuisition device) thats the area of brian responcible for handeling language....
Foder desined a madel of the brain thats been proven could Modularity of mind, he clamed that one area of the brain could not function as it should having an overall effect on a behavour but the rest of the brain or mind works perfectly well.
The stigma is everyone and their grannie thinks bad language abilites means poor inteligences....75% IQ is sub-educasional (in this countrie) people with 80% in IQ have had adiquite language skills verbal reading and written skills due to the specilized area of the lad working as it should do but alas could't think or rationalise etc.

How it's tested for di is you have to at lest average inteligence 100% but a big disparity in language skills and no real external reason that would interfear with learning language skills. ie never going to school,etc. So they give you language based teest untill you fail ie reading writting, word comprihension and appropriatness, paragraph comprihension so they can mesure your maximum potencial at languages. logic, reasoning tests, problem solving etc. that is not based on language. They mesure your language ability and "type" of mistakes made within the language tests agenst your iq and that is when your either statmented as deslexia or not...

Anno over heer it is classed as a spacific learning disabilitie to distinquish it agenst general learning disabilities. I know its anal but....lol

I have been to 3 universities so have had the pleasure of having 3 diffrent edu psy test me 3 diffrent ways and i varie about 2 points on the test...

In terms of input reading and output spelling written expression etc their can also be diffrences. i do misread and lose function words (like it or and )those types of words which tell you the relashionship of one thing too another....It can make a sentence reallie strange. When the relashionship of one thing to another is reallie messed up in my head.

Spelling a nightmare, i can spell cheek but the machine dosent pick up homophones like beer and bear heer and hear, theirs, their theer lol theirs some lol and i constently mess them up and the machine dosent recognise that i have the wrong one in the wrong place. I can also choise the wrong word to pick from the spell cheeking list. Po being about and i constantly hounded her with "spell such and such" lol. She trying to tell me letters, i heer them with my ears and i can't translate the sound into a shape in my head so don't know what one to pick from the keyboared. its fun sometimes lol

their are advantigies to dyslexia, ie i can rotate shapes in my head very easilie in 3d. So i am good at desining a garden bench, then build it becouse i can see the joints etc in my head...Sometimes words automaticly become pictures so a problem is reprisented pictorallie...ie statistick tests in psychology...it really helps if your talking about negative corralating vriables lol..

theirs always solusions and theirs always advantiges to most everything in life either we find them or go bonkers with the stuff we can't do...

celtic (pheewww) did that make sences

So how do i studie lol...at first it was grim determinasion to prove certine people wrong in formative years as well as for the joy of it. Now it's just the joy of it being pasionate about what i do and willingness to put the hard work in and extra effort.

Dotsie

Apart from meds what support at school weer your kids offered?

what spaciffic advantiges would you say wour kids have with add....how dose it positivly effect their lives? Apart from the fact you love them to pices with it.

celtic

dI
can you rember what was the first stressfull thing or upseating thing that you rember trying or starting the counting. If thats upseting or to personal to answere in public then don't, or just tell a lie.....lol

was it classed as ODD as a child or was Dr Bob visited as an adult. How did learning it was a disorder change your life? Do you keep quite about it with your real time frends or do they know about it?

yea i am just full of questions ....sorrie but yea your talking to me at the minuet but you never know who else will read this and be helped in some way and we may never know...

celtic

Anno
wear are you girl we need you lol....

how is it dealt with OCD ADD and D/ecia in the USA ...we need an educasion expert in on this i counting on ya lol

celtic

Sorry, but I am no expert in this area. We depend on Doctors and medication and psychologists and behavioral theories to deal with any type of learning disablities and "disorders". I am beginning to believe, more and more, in home education. Oops, don't tell my bosses I said this!

Really, I am not an expert - I just believe we (education) are not dealing with issues very well. We try, but we just are not equipped (or funded) to work with kids out of the norm. And like I said before, what is the norm?

anno
well don't know about the other ladies but ya an expert becouse you are in the adult edu field, if not an expert then at lest we all know you know more about the current stuff in edu. makes ya more of an expert than me

celtic

Okay, I will tell you what I know. Not much! LOL

ADD or ADHD is generally treated with medication. Ridelin is still the most popular drug. In some cases it works beautifully and kids have great outcomes. For others, it causes a lack of appetite (or worse) and can be frustrating for the child. Classroom teachers are not trained to deal with severe cases of ADD and often these children become behavioral problems. Classrooms are unfairly packed with students, especially in very rural areas and in large metropolitan schools. Ah, a bit of my frustration is coming through here.

ODD (oppositional defiant disorder - I hate this name) again is treated mainly with drugs.

OCD (compulsive behavior like Dianne's counting) is usually treated by professionals, not schools. I think it is important to have therapy for this (and most disorders) but schools generally do not have problems with these students, so little is done by the schools.

Making everything even more difficult is the fact that seldom is a student diagnosed with only one disorder. There are so many kids with mulitiple diagnosis, or alphabet soup disorders , often they only get help for one and the other gets ignored.

Okay, that is all I got, girlfriend.

Us OCD'ers are too busy counting, etc. to cause problems.

My first son was diagnosed ADD and put on Ritalin. He hated it! It took a while for them to get the dosage right but he was hallucinating and it was awful. His teacher wouldn't let him come to class without it. He settled down after a while but today, he's still fast paced and keeps his leg moving when he's sitting.

unles di the OCD effects behaviour....the desks may have to re-arranged lol.

OCD and addiction is reallie common. No not all OCD are addicted but addiction is classed as another type of obsessional compulsive disorder....the obsesion and compulsion being directed towards drugs...they get clean, but still very troubled then obsesife and intrusive thinking starts......Their is a certine "type" of mind set and thinking that addicts desplay...thats diffrent from problemed or very heavie drinkers...I got a thousand funnie stories to tell on that area....funnie as they are they never funnie to the person at the time (well rarely)

but back to you di spacificallie does it effect behaviour like cleaning obsesisly?

Do you mind being asked thse types of questions?

celtic

Oh, Dianne, if it does cause you to clean compulsively, would you mind visiting my house someday? Soon? Even sooner?

Wow, I know lots about this topic due to the fact that two of my kids have been diagnosed and treated.

My daughter is 19 and has been on medication since second grade for ADHD. Now professionals are saying there's no difference between ADD and ADHD and I totally disagree because my son has ADD and thier symptoms are very different.

ADHD has the hyperactivity component. Both are treated with the same types of mild altering drugs. Yes, they are mind altering. No getting around it.

During the time that doctors and teachers were suggesting medication, I was totally freaked out. No kid of mine was going to be medicated. I was very ignorant. I read, visited doctors, psychiatrists, educators, etc. and came to realize that there was no harm in trying. If it didn't work, then no more medicine. Ritalin was tried and it worked like a dream for school, but it altered her appetite and sleep. Theough much thought and consideration, we chose to stay on the medicine because she felt better on it and was able to sit still, learn, and it improved her relationships too.


My daughter also has learning disabilities. We learned this very early on in her education so she went to a private school for kids with learning disabilities from grades 6-12. It was a godsend. She had no more than seven kids in her classes, often only a few. These kids are bright, they just have issues they make their learning slower, harder, more complicated.

The school she attended taught through many applications. They did lots of hands on learning. Some of their tests were given in bigger print, separated into sections, even able to take tests orally. The point is that the kids absorbed and learned fabulously. They just learned differently than being lectured to. Most school systems lecture and expect kids to absorb.

Okay, so now she's in a small college and doing well. Again, small, but nothing like her old school. This is your typical college but they do have support for kids who need it jsut like all colleges must offer. She learned to be a tremendous self-advocate at her old school so she's gone for tutoring, meetings with teachers, asked for more time when testing, etc. Some kids would suffer in silence, but the beauty of my daughter is that she knows who she is and what she needs. She learned all about her learning disabilites, understand them, and know what she needs to succeed. It's who she is and she's totally cool with it. She works incredibly hard. Others would never put forth the effort she does to learn new things because they've never had to. She's awesome and I admire her tenacity. Her work eithic will take her very far in the work place.

Now all of this is by the grace of God because we were fortunate to be able to send her to that school. It cost more than 20 grand a year. Our son was going to college cheaper. Anyway, that's part of my point. Many children do not have this type of opportunity. They have to put up with the public school system which says they meet the needs of each child, but it's impossible.

Now, my son wasn't diagnosed with ADD until he was in high school. He's the kind of kid who did well enough, listened, got along well with others, was loved by others and just got by being a good kid and doing his best. So why have him tested?- oh yeah, I forgot to mention all the education testing my daughter went through. She had several batteries of tests done by three different specialists before we agreed to medication. Anyway, we had him tested because he said he couldn't stay focused, couldn't study, his mind wandered, etc. Sure enough he was diagnosed with ADD and an auditory learning disability which apparently often go together. He tried medication and the first day he was on it, he got in the car when I picked him up and said, I felt like I could have written forever in English. It was Adderal. It made a tremendous difference. He quickly became an all but one course straight A student. No kidding.

But here's the rest of the story. He didn't like the way her felt when he was coming off the medicine. He felt all pent up and bothered whicih is totally out of character for him. He told the doctor and she told him to take another dose mid to late day and that would carry him to bedtime. Remember, he's in high school so he's speaking for himself.

He didn't want to do it so he stopped taking it completely. He finished high school without taking any medication except when he had to take tests, especially the SATs. His doctor told him he could use it when he wanted and that's what he did.

Now he's in college and decided he needs to take it again. They switched him to Ritalin and he's taking medicine again. Only on school days. Says he can't tell a big difference so he probably needs a little bit of a bigger dose but I'm leaving it up to him.

Here are some things I've learned through the years. When our doctor put my son on his medication, she told him he might not always want to take it. He's very creative. He's our film major. She shared that his mind is quick and able to carry many thoughts at once which is beneficial to a person in a creative field. She offered that he may only want to take it when he needs to learn new information. Interesting, huh?

Oh gosh, I could talk forever on this topic, but I'll take a break.

here's one more thing before I go. I know a young man who turned 18 and said he didn't want to take his medication any more. He'd been taking it since he was six. He no longer takes it and is absolutely fine. Now don't you wonder what his childhood might have been like had he not been medicated?

This is a very complex topic.

The problem lies in having a slight touch of ADD too. I might start cleaning and get distracted and start another chore and forget the one I started! So, I can have several projects going at one time and none of them get finished.

My husband wishes I was a compulsive cleaner! He's really anal about everything being in it's place. I'm not. We both try to compromise.

I don't mind these questions at all and I never knew there was a connection with addiction. I better be careful, huh?

This is interesting...I thought I was just a typical scatter-brained artsy bohemian nut. You just described me, Dianne. I get distracted very easily. Maybe that's the way writers are. People used to call these symptoms interesting..maybe even creative…maybe even intelligent…
Am I wrong or am I right?
When I think back on my son's behaviour he was a jump up and down hyper kid. He was bored with school, couldn't concentrate, the clown of the class…and didn't make college.

Now he is the top manager in one of the biggest real-estate companies in Muenich…and is bringing in those mulas. Figure? His charisma and charm is his big asset. I wonder if I had suppressed his natural "liveliness" with drugs; if he still would have been himself.

I got to admit, I was never sure it would turn out all right. And we were often worried about him. If we had know about ADDS then, I probably would have put him on medication, just like you did, Dotsie.

There is also a type called a 'scanner.' This is what I am. I have had several careers, but nothing holds my interest for long. Same with hobbies; as soon as I figure out how to do something, it doesn't interest me any more. I always thought there was something 'wrong' with me because my friends seemed to be able to stick to a career, and I couldn't. When I found Barbara Sher's work, I was ecstatic; there isn't anything wrong with me. I'm just wired differently. I have unfinished projects all over the place, which Barbara says is just fine (and in her books, she addresses how to deal with this,) so I'm now content with how I operate.

amazine dotsie and a good carictr your kids have especillie the girl its what you weer saying about the effort she has to put in to learn but is willing to do it for the joy of learning....thats admirable in anyone. Its great to know that kids with disorders can succed with meds or situasion like alternitive learning methods. Its like happie endings in a way and our abilities to overcome ....makes us humain but being humain what makes us uniquike.

thanks for sharring hope it gives hope to other mums with kids or grandkids, with theas disorders

celtic

hi di i took care not to implie that OCD and addiction has a tight connection..If someone in (mental emotional)pain then they relive that pain with meds/drink to big extent then feel obsessed with drugs and combulsed to use then and have other obsesive compulsife traites then it might be addiction. The obsession and combulsion is just another way for addicts to try and relive the discomphort they feel in the world, some lose it furtheir into treatment others don't, just evidence of a constant but perhapps for them deminished unease with the world.

I wouldn't say you weer anymore vulrible to addiction or drink than anyone else thats hurting...and may want to block it out. Hope i aint worried you and i wouldn't want you hurt by me for the world, just in case di

celtic

younith a "scanner" is that another type of ADD or a diffrent disorder. ....in anycase i am happie you feel normal now and have acceptance for yourself

celtic

Hannilore main thing hes doing great now....and charm and carisma hmmmm wonder who he got them traits after eh? girlie girl

celtic

Hannilore, what if that one action (putting him on medication) would have changed the course of his life? That's what scares me! Our youngest daugher has our oldest grandson on a medication for ADHD (not Ritalin, but a newer drug). It has changed his personality, dramatically. What if the person he was destined to be has now been altered. I hate the thought. His over-achieving school pushed my daughter and husband into taking drastic measures - drug based measures with threats of holding him back and/or putting him in special ed classes. He has been tested for dyslexia, not the extensive testing celtic has been through, tho. I think his test only took a couple of hours. How can one, especially a school worker, make a solid determination as to where his problems lie, in such a short period, with crude testing methods, under stressful circumstances, and with a school standard pressing them to make him conform!? This really p***es me off. According to some, he is afflicted with ADHD (current prescribing psychiatrist), ODD (his first pediatric psychiatrist) dyslexia (per school testing) and general learning disabilities (per last year's and current teachers). This is an extremely bright kiddo (I'm not speaking from a biased viewpoint, either).
But, with his medication, he seems so dulled... I can't think of a better word. His personality, his actions, his speech, his dismeanor, etc..
Yes, his grades have improved, but at what cost? What are grades, anyway? A way to measure me to you? Old school gone wrong!

If only there was a way to reach all children with all special needs!

Celtic...aw shucks...you're the charmer here.

Gimster it must be disturbing to see your grandchild's personality change. Doesn't it make you wonder if the school structure is wrong. Medicating a child, if he doesn't fit in the system, can't be the answer. I'm with you on this!

Of course parents want their children to go on to college. I had the same attitude, but through the German school system, I learned that college is not necessarily the only way to happiness.

In Germany the children are divided from the fifth grade up as to who will go to college and who won't. I was in absolute panic, because both my sons were late bloomers, and neither made it to the college group. Instead they went on to "middle" school. It's sort of like a business school. The third group of children go to trade school. There they have minimum three year apprenticeship programs, including teaching the students how to start their own businesses. Many of these so-called "blue collar" workers earn more than doctors.

So if a child is overly active, they tend to put him into a sports program or have him work more with his hands. There are fantastic career possibilities here without college, (other than medical, law or engineering careers). Who knows if our son would have had the same opportunity in America? But that's another topic.

Children with special needs are needed in our society. Instead of investing money in drugs, these valuable people should earn higher salaries to enable them to live quality lives, just like college grads.

Do I sound like I'm candidating for President? Ha ha …sorry, didn't mean to go off like that.

Hannelore, you are the best candidate for president that I have seen so far. Go for it, girl.

Whoa - I just noticed that I have over one thousand posts! I remember being impressed when I had 100.

Way to go, Anno. Hey, I'm a poet!

Celtic, I know you weren't implying anything but honestly, I have to watch myself closely because I don't seem to have a stop button. I couldn't have one glass of wine or one cigarette. It was always the whole bottle or the whole pack. So, there is a connection.

I was on Ritalin during the process of writing my book. It's the only way I can stay truly focused, along with the passion I had for writing my story. If I don't have a project, I don't need it. I just stay scattered.

When I was depressed from this OCD I started thinking that I should have been a miscarriage. First, I was an unwanted pregnancy, was born with crossed eyes and got Scarlet Fever and almost died and then, they found a heart murmer! A lot for a baby to overcome but I did. Add to this a father who screamed and raged at me and a mother who used me for the family scape goat and well...it's been tough but I believe I'm a better person because of all this.

Dianne, I bet at least 90% of us weren't planned. Hey, but we are all here trying to make the best of it. I believe you are a better person just because you are. I'm sure you are helping more women than you realize with your honesty and candor. I've been following your posts with great interest, and think each time; -- You've come a long way, baby!

di
planned or not i am happie your heer. I bet so is your hubbie the people who read your books, the people who love ya etc...Life aint easie and i sure it wasent for you...depression a wee bugger becouse of how altered our thinking can become....
Spiritualy you weer planned maybee not by your mum but by a bigger force than her. None of us are accidents we all heer for a reason

i read your bit in "loss" and loved your post their reallie made me think and touched me....and rember stuff that had been for me even if it diffrent now.

celtic

I finally, after many years, took the attitude...if you didn't want another baby you shouldn't have been messing around! Plus, I know God has a purpose for my life and I've been busily fulfilling it. Thanks for the kind words.