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#101951 - 01/09/07 07:00 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: mrs_madness]
Dancing Dolphin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 2529
Loc: Southern California
Wow, what a great post, mrs_madness. To see it through the eyes of someone experiencing it removes just a little of the glamour, doesn't it?

Some people may think living abroad would be like an extended vacation, but with your information I can see what a hassle it might be. Guess it will just depend on how much these people want to live there.

I think I'll stick with the travel/visit part!

Kathy

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#101952 - 01/09/07 07:19 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: Dancing Dolphin]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
I've heard Moscow is quite a metropolitan city; fashionable, snazzy and full up yuppies. Is that true? That's why I was surprised to read that they can't speak English.
In Germany every child has to learn English from the fourth grade on.
Oh yes, London is supposed to be the most expensive city in all of Europe! Lola can probably tell us more about that.
Mrs. Madness, It took me a long time before I could say I speak German fluently. And even if you do master the language, the different dialects are like another language! Russian must be very difficult. They have another alphabet too, don't they?
I'd love to hear more about living in Moscow. Are the Russians friendly to Americans?

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#101953 - 01/09/07 07:24 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: Edelweiss]
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
My sister has the same problem living in France. She's taken lessons, listened to CD's but she's having a very difficult time. Not to mention that you have to talk to a pharmacist to even buy aspirin and describe your symptoms.

She had a mammogram there and they didn't give her a robe to wear and expected her to sit there topless with people passing by. Said she's taking a robe the next time.

Those brain channels shut down with age.
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice.
www.eadv.net



Boomer Queen of Shoes

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#101954 - 01/09/07 08:36 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: Edelweiss]
mrs_madness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
Quote:

I've heard Moscow is quite a metropolitan city; fashionable, snazzy and full up yuppies. Is that true? That's why I was surprised to read that they can't speak English.
In Germany every child has to learn English from the fourth grade on.
Oh yes, London is supposed to be the most expensive city in all of Europe! Lola can probably tell us more about that.
Mrs. Madness, It took me a long time before I could say I speak German fluently. And even if you do master the language, the different dialects are like another language! Russian must be very difficult. They have another alphabet too, don't they?
I'd love to hear more about living in Moscow. Are the Russians friendly to Americans?





As boomer women well know, America and Russia have had a rocky relationship throughout most of the 20th century, and Russia has spent most of it's historical existence in isolation, so no, English is a fair rarity here. There are not more than a few thousand at most, Americans in Russia. Russia is exceptional in its isolation. I've had people tell me they met more English in Africa and Asia and everywhere else than Russia.

But since we've lived here we've traveled from time to time and I'm pretty sure that when you leave the confines of western Europe and north America you've left most English behind. Even in Europe, Czech for example (where we've been) many people may speak some English but everything in print is in Czech. Newspapers, bus schedules, grocery receipts--all Czech. A very cosmopolitan place, but Czech is their language and that's what they do official printed business in.

For an American to consider living overseas on American dollars, western Europe is just totally out of the question. So for Mustang Gal to retire someplace where she can afford to live on her dollars she would have to go elsewhere. And the more elsewhere you go, the less English you find.

Health care is a problem. Western doctors in western style clinics cost more here then they do in America. This is very common around the world. Expats are presumed to be rich, rich, rich, and they pay through the nose for everything. Many countries have nationalized health care (which is a great thing) but you can't access it if you can't speak the language. Period.

We brought a king size bed with us to Moscow, where we cannot buy bedding for it nor are there washers big enough for the blankets. There are no laundromats in Russia. This has been a 4-year thorn in my side. I can't read the directions on a pack of soup mix. There is no such thing as fresh milk. Even deciphering the flavor of a can of cat food is guess work. I'm improving, but it's all still a struggle....and we're probably moving to China next year. I don't speak Chinese either.

This all would probably have been more fun 20 years ago. My sense of adventure is becoming stunted and I'm tired of all the simple yet seemingly impossible hassles. Yes, it's been a growing and learning experience, but in retrospect, if I had known then what I know now, I would have stayed put in my cute little farmhouse and grown roses and been happy.

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#101955 - 01/09/07 08:44 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: Edelweiss]
Lola Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3703
Loc: London UK
Hi, Mrs Madness. Nice to meet you. Another expat! Yes, I think it is a good idea to share our experiences with those who consider living abroad whether it is to be on a temporary basis or permanently because there are a lot of things to take on board.

Language is one of them. While English is spoken here, it is very different to American English. I was able to cope with it because I was sent to British schools all my life and was quite familiar with the difference between British and American vocabularies. There are variations to the British English according to regions and country i.e. Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England. However, because of the influx of American T.V. programmes, American colloquials have seeped into the British mainstream. A good thing because blank expressions are now rare on those occasions when the alternative to lifts and roundabouts is expressed. Although it would certainly bring a smile or a giggle pants are asked for instead of trousers. Pants being undergarments here. Trainers are sneakers and not bras. But these are minor things and quite enjoyable encounters really.

Living costs and taxes. Yes, London is a very expensive city to settle in. But, one has to take into account that the system here is very different to that in the US. Taxes bear the cost of a social system which takes care of its citizens from cradle to grave with free medical, free education, income support, housing benefits etc. The taxes from the "haves" support the "have nots" at various degrees, terms and qualifications. A good thing really because changes of one's circumstances are sometimes so unforeseen. The "haves" can just as surely be the "have nots". The children of Robert Maxwell had a direct experience of that and quite a good example to bring up. All in gainful employment contribute to a National Insurance which benefits all across the board whether one chooses to benefit from it or not. One thing that must also be taken into account is that, a sterling pound earned has its purchasing power in sterling pound so, living in London may not be that expensive to Londoners. Unless of course one lives beyond one's means. But, that applies anywhere for that matter anyway.

There are many facets to life in the UK that I appreciate most. The one good thing that I admire about the British is the access its citizens have to their politicians. A dissatisfied citizen can openly confront their MP, and even the Prime Minister, about governmental bureaucracy which brings about a direct effect to one's life and not be slapped with a federal offence. Politicians can be made directly accountable to the electorate. Each MP holds a surgery (meeting) in their district where a member of the constituency can come to bring their concerns. One just has to watch when legislation is debated in Parliament and appreciate that democracy is well and alive in the UK.

The National Health Service here which is the organisation responsible for health care still practise medical and nursing care in the old way. For all the criticism it gets from the public because of the general subscription to it and some failures to meet its need by shortgae of medical personnel, hospital and beds, I would still rank it if not the top, the best in the world in terms of its very personal nursing care.

Then there is the culture, history, arts and literature. For the writers and artists: Charles Dickens, Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, Oscar Wilde, Jane Austen...I can go on and on. And a living history to it all is the Queen. Regardless of what positions any one takes with regards to monarchy, her ancestry is unequalled in terms of the historical figures she represents.

Well, I hope you all can pardon a very lengthy post on what is actually just a short summary of my 17-year residency in London. And if anyone should decide to move from there to here, in retirement or otherwise, I'd be most happy to personally help with the adjustments to UK lifestyle.
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#101956 - 01/10/07 11:27 AM Re: Living Abroad [Re: Lola]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
Mrs_Madness, may I ask why you live abroad? If couldn't be because you prefer to. Now china, sounds like your going from the frying pan into the fire. You are so generous to share these points with us. I never would have thought of some of the problems you mentioned. I have thought of spending 1/2 year in Italy and 1/2 here, but I speak little Italian....
_________________________
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http://charleen-micheles.blogspot.com/


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#101957 - 01/10/07 01:06 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: chatty lady]
mrs_madness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 217
Loc: Moscow
Since so many of you have mentioned living part time in Italy here is a good link to Italian visitor/visa regulations. http://www.traveldocs.com/it/vr.htm. The "Travel Document Systems" website is a great resource to find out everything you need to know about official documents needed for travel just about everywhere. You will see that an American can stay in Shengen countries for a total of only 3 months as a tourist. With the exception of Portugal, Shengen countries are all wildy expensive.

There is a vast difference between being a tourist and living part or full time in another country. When you move beyond the normal tourist stay you find that there begin to be a host of visa problems, tax issues, residency restrictions, work permit problems, and health care eligibility prohibitions and restrictions. Many types of American (usually employer provided) health insurance policies have strict limitations outside of the US, including nullification of the policy. It is also worth nothing that American Medicare is only good in the US. Once you're outside the country Medicare no longer covers you.

Also the idea of taking a camper or other vehicle and traveling Europe is again, a very expensive one. Gas throughout most of Europe is going to run you a couple of Euro per litre(!) Currently the Euro is about $1.25 and one gallon is 3.3 litres. Do the math and you'll see that gas in Europe is 6-8 dollars a gallon. Then there is maintenance and repair for the vehicle (in a foreign language), foreign road signs, foreign driving habits, foreign road laws which vary from country to country, vehicle insurance....etc.

Moving overseas is possible and can be done, but should be carefully researched before any whimsical decision is made.

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#101958 - 01/10/07 03:39 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: mrs_madness]
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
Have you been able to make any girlfriends there? My sister has only made friends with other American women living in France.

Her husband is French so he's a huge help in reading labels, etc. But then, most French speak English so it isn't quite as serious as your situation.
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice.
www.eadv.net



Boomer Queen of Shoes

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#101959 - 01/11/07 01:46 AM Re: Living Abroad [Re: Dianne]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lola, good idea for rail travel throughout Europe. Although 25 years until I retire, I'd really love to live abroad for at least a year. The UK certainly has a lot to offer. Lola, is the UK your original national country of origin? I've told my three nieces that they can choose a country(ies) depending upon the specials and I'd take them each to Europe in the year they each independently turn 16. Thus, trips to Europe begin in 2009, 2014 and 2016! Plenty of time to save $$$ before and inbetween birthdays!

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#101960 - 01/11/07 07:20 PM Re: Living Abroad [Re: ]
Dianne Offline
Queen of Shoes

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 6123
Loc: Arizona
Be very careful on the rail. High theft.
_________________________
If it doesn't feel good, don't do it twice.
www.eadv.net



Boomer Queen of Shoes

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