Question: current job issue

I work for a national magazine (have many US accounts) as an advertising sales rep. I have worked for this company for over 8 years. I have developed many new accounts and so far have been the only sales person. A few years ago my company was sold to a larger company. Many of the staff changed and fairly recently my magazine hired a new editor. He has a friend (male) and suggested to the owner of my company that he hire him as a salesperson for my magazine. He did not talk to me about it, just gave the owner a sales pitch about his friend. Told the owner that his friend could make the magazine larger with his expertise. My magazine is aviation related. I am not a pilot but know the industry well and have many loyal advertisers. I used to be married to a pilot so am up on the lingo etc. This guy is a pilot so my editor has decided that he should work for the magazine. I'm just a woman and not a pilot at that. He has an ego issue and so does this new guy.

Problem: I have many accounts and many prospects that I call on a regular basis.

My boss asked me to send this person a list of my current advertisers and accounts that I am trying to get. I did this. This guy told me after looking over my list that I have 97% of all the accounts in the industry and there is nothing left for him. This is not true. He just doesn't want to go to all the work of getting new accounts. He thinks that because he knows some of my clients personally (he lives in their area of the country), that I should hand them over to him or at least share them and split the commission. I live in the west where the magazine started. He lives in the east an area that we are trying to grow. I used to live in the east for many years and have brought in some large advertisers from there. My company thinks because he lives there and can call on people in person he will do better. All I have to do is pick up the phone and call them. I don't need to meet them in person to sell them an ad and never do. I do all my sales over the phone.

I depend on the income from this job, he has his own company and this job would be extra income for him. My company is not very loyal. In the entire time I have worked for this company I have never even received a Christmas card from the company or the owner. When people leave they talk about how lousy they were at their jobs and basically run them down. They fire people and recently asked me for a copy of my contract. I don't have it, they should but it looks like they lost it. I don't think they are happy about not being able to find it. I wondered why they wanted my contract and now I know. They wanted to hire him. I think they have been snowed into believing that this guy is more knowledgeable and will get more sales because he is a pilot. I know this is not true but obviously they don't. He has never sold anything let alone advertising which is not easy.

My boss is meeting with him in his city next week. He wanted us to talk before this meeting. In my opinion they (my boss and him) are trying to take money of out my kids mouths. He wants some of my accounts instead of getting his own. Granted my list is huge but I have accumulated all of these contacts on my own over the years. I am worried that it will come down to them telling me that I have to give up some of my accounts and I have worked very hard to get them. Whether this is fair or not does not matter to them.

I am currently taking my real estate course because they have done similar to me before and I don't trust this company. My brother has told me over the years to quit but I have kids to take care of and financially can't quit. That is why I am trying to get into another career.

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are about this. As I am too close to the situation I may not be seeing things from their point of view, just mine. Idea's?
Kate

This sounds stressful.

Any chance you are allowed to expand your sales territory into the U.S. / new region where no one else is there now?

You sound like a great salesperson. I hope you have expressed your average growth rate for sales accounts annually in xxx% in your resume. If not, start remembering and look at the list of accounts of when each started.

You are wise to look for another job/career. But there maybe one staring in your face..who knows.

by the way, did you know that Vancouver area has a firm that produces submarines? Things we never knew locally?

Kate, the construction and mining industries in B.C. and Alberta are just so hot now and will be for next few years. I can see you...in sales even on construction materials/equipment. Did you know the earthmoving Caterpillar machines are just the hottest things right now because construction industry is in overdrive? The Vancouver based firm is Finning.

You are already aligned in a predominantly guy's world, aviation...so take that familiarity/comfort level with techie language and understanding guy culture/industry somewhere else..

You might be even good as a corporate facility coordinator/planner...for large corporate building renovations/retrofit and office relocations. I've had to work with a few people like that. Big companies hire 1-2 folks like that permanently if they have several office city locations or ..in government there are permanent positions.

Think about this Kate...

Thanks Orchid. Such great advice. I am going to focus on completing my real estate assignments for now so I can write the exam. I have to get this done. Later I will look into some other options.

I'm just wondering from a legal point of view if my company is allowed to take my accounts and give them to someone else. I am going to look into that. I have all of the US and Canada and have had for over 8 years. I'm not asking this person not to contact anyone in Canada or the US, just not the prospects on my list. It has taken me years to put this list together and built repore with these clients.

There are others he can contact but he wants to pick from my list. There are many other companies that I have not contacted that he can go after.

I have had the whole enchilada for some time now and it is hard to think of someone else competing with me for ad sales. There are only so many companies that will advertise. Not all companies in business believe in advertising on a regular basis.

The other part of my problem is the company I work for does not treat their employees very well. This goes against my grain. I have never been told that I am doing a good job, no recognition at all. I can pat myself on the back but it would be nice to hear something from my superiors. Instead they want to give my hard work to someone else that they don't even know. Take a chance on a stranger and take advantage of a loyal employee. I feel like chopped liver. Not very nice.

Kate

Kate, same situation I had many years ago, I built up a fantastic territory of advertisers, paper sold, new boss but it was his son he wanted me to 'GIVE' my contact list to. I did just that after sorting out and keeping the best ones for myself, ones I worked my butt off to sell and to keep happy. I turned in my resignation along with the partial list which I also doctored, changing a name or number here and there.

I kept my list on my own, there was no rule that said I had to, but I am so organized I just did it. I had another job before I hit the front door and took most of my clients with me.

What I did may seem petty to some but what they were trying to do was even worse. I was a mom raising two sons alone and I made sure I kept the food in their mouths and the clothes on their backs...

When someone is playing under-handed, using the fact against you that you NEED a job, its time to get tough.

Give what you get, I did and do to this day....

I agree with Chatty. If they fire you for not giving this new person the list, then you walk with the entire list and they have nothing -- which is exactly what you owe them right now.

It's tough to fire people these days so I can drag this out.
They have to give me at least three warning letters or I can sue for wrongful dismissal. And, what are they going to fire me for? Being loyal and doing my job. I don't think so.

I like the idea of taking my list with me. I'm sure people before me have done this. I have to put everything in an online company data base so I can't delete companies, but I can delete contact info and phone numbers. They are what take the time anyway.

The list I sent was only company names, not the contact info, email addresses etc. I will keep that info and not share it.

The writing is on the wall though so I am going to focus on getting my license and keep selling as that is how I get paid. I'm at the point where I really can't take the way they treat employees anymore. They are a very money oriented company which is ok in a way but they are also greedy and don't give anything which is what I can't deal with. They cut costs but want you to sell more. This is not very supportive for my clients either which bugs me too. They are not getting their moneys worth. Not a great way to run a business.

Thankfully I don't work in the same city as my head office or I would be long gone. They can't keep staff at all as they leave soon after being hired. They are very overworked and underpaid. Luckily I am on commission.

I'm sure this will be my last year and hopefully my last six months.

Thanks for the wonderful input as usual. I knew I could count on you ladies.
Kate

I totally agree that you owe them SQUAT! But, let me say that burning bridges behind you could only come back to you and make the next "crossing" very difficult. It will bite you in the butt, guaranteed. If only to make you feel bad for retaliating!

Do they deserve all the info? Not one single bit of it. But deleting the info is sending a message to your brain, (the Universe, whatever you want to call it) saying that you can't possibly get MORE customers and so you are setting yourself up to fail before you start again. In other words, I think it is bad karma. Or...of a limited mindset that says, "Oh I'll delete this because if I do, then all the customers I need are right here and I can't possibly get MORE. I have to have THESE to succeed." You are bigger than them.

There is plenty of work to go around in the world and YES, you have obviously done a beautiful job of setting yourself up with boocoo's of customers, their data, etc., but if you did it once, you can do it again, because customers aren't limited to THAT list. If they are, then the rest of the world needs to shut down.

Don't pull yourself down to their level, no matter how temporarily satisifying it may seem.

Do your own thing gal, you are so smart, and so worth it.

By the way, I just got your Christmas card and loved it. The inside was full of love...you are so sweet! I just adore you...and the rest of these babes!

Your right Jaw Jaw. I am a big believer in Karma and am just letting them get to me.

I can't delete the list of clients as they are locked into a database. Every time I sell something I have to put the company info in to the database so they can be invoiced.

I was just planning on deleting all of my work, sales letters, prospects (my sales letter got voted best in the company at a sales conference)

Also, all of my email coorespondence that sort of thing. I won't go out of my way to delete company info, just mine.

I do hear you loud and clear about taking the high road and I usually do. Also the reminder about not burning my bridges is advice I always give out. Time for me to take this advice. The former owner of the company gave me a glowing reference when he retired and he is still around so I know he would give me a great reference again if I needed it. We keep in touch. I have spoken to him about the company and how they treat employees and he does not like it and told me he wished he didn't sell the company to them. He is far away from it now and I told him not to worry about it and just enjoy his retirement. I so enjoyed working with him in a small office. Now I am part of a large company with no personality and no concern for it's employees.

I have a better attitude today though.
thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Kate

Kate, I read through this thread too, and now I realize you have had so much pressure and stress. You get a lot of support here, and the support is lovely to read. I can see that the support helps, too. I know someone who sells advertising for a specific type of magazine. She was treated badly. Her boss, who was in the office too but did not sell, just tinkered all day, and looked at the numbers. He carried a gun to work! Yikes. When she knew she had to leave, she thought about taking a disc of the contacts she had made. Whose property is it? If she made the contacts is it her property? In real estate, I am an independent contractor, so that database would be mine to take with me. Realtors who are leaving the business or going to another state SELL their contacts before they leave. Can you take a disc with you? PS I left a message on your other thread. L, PL

I'm not sure who's contact list it is. Although I did all the reasearch and made the contacts. I get paid on commission so I think the list is mine. If I was paid a salary the list would be theirs.

Any ads I have sold to clients in the past up until now there is a paper trail. I have to put their info in a database when I make the sale for invoicing purposes. So, that info is there for the company, any new sales people etc.

I have a long list of prospects and that list is mine. I did the work so will keep this with me.

The big issue I have is the new guy wants to cherry pick my current advertisers instead of going out and getting his own. He actually told me that he will be counting on my expertise as I have been with the magazine for eight years.

He has never sold anything before let alone advertising. He is in for a big surprise. Selling advertising over the phone is not easy. It's basically cold calling and I don't think he wants to do that. He wants to call on clients that I have already warmed up for him.

I have been through this once before. Same company, different magazine. They hired a new guy and took half of my clients, the good high paying ones. Then three months later they fired him. Did I get the clients back, no. Management did. But it back fired on them because the client they did the magazine for did not like their service (they were always late printing the magazine) so they got another company to produce it for them.

I am really trying not to get my knickers in too big of a knot. I'm focusing on my new career in real estate. That can be a dog eat dog world too I hear. So I guess I had better toughen up.
Kate

Theres an old boring quotation: "Dammed if I do, and damned if I don't...well its true, so you do whatever makes you feel best.
Good luck with the Real Estate, its got a lot of "hidden expenses" to new agents, so educate yourself thoroughly before committing, or leaving your other job.

My new agent expenses came to $8,000.oo in 2007. And I'm not even new, just new to this state. of mind.

katebecca, I also just received your Christmas card. Canada to Texas - what a trip... THANKS! so much glitter..I had it all over me AND I sparkled too!

I am so with the karma/the universe/my protector thing - no matter whose contacts they are, you are being tested. Good attitude reigns supreme... I once had a similar situation, but in the accounting field. I was responsible for four disbursement accounts for an international company. The accounts were multi-million dollar accounts. When I first working in this particular accounting department, I knew NOTHING about what I was doing. I struggled, and I must note, struggled badly. I didn't think I would EVER conquer the tasks before me, not to mention meeting the accounting deadlines each month, quarter and year. But, finally, it all fell into place and I was called upon to handle more accounts, some of which had been neglected and messed up terribly for years. I whipped them into shape with my newly learned preciseness (I prided myself on balancing the accounts to the penny). Well, about two years into my department stay, it was split by the corp. powers that be. I was placed under a ghoul of a manager, who had a drunkard as a lead placed over me. I gave them h***. After having to train several supervisors before, I was displeased to say the least, because I had done the slaving and could have an account balanced, my journal entries finalized and be helping someone else on their work before month end was even to be thought about. THEN, of all the THINGS, my new managers wanted me to show my lead, plus the counter lead how I was able to master the accounts in such a way that I had time in my month to spare. The manager had us sit in a small room (the 3 of us around a single table) and I innocently started showing them the tricks of my system. Then on the second day, we gathered and I picked up where we'd left off the prior day... from no understandable reason, my words froze in my throat and I refused to continue. I walked out of the room without explanation and never returned. They couldn't let me go. I had done nothing wrong. I was doing my job. But, I have to say, I think karma/the universe/my protector protected me. I was doing as I had been told, in a pleasant and business acceptable way. The thing is SOMETHING stepped in and protected me.
I was never hurt by this. When the company sold to an even bigger company, I was commissioned (and housed) to go to the new office (in another city) and train the employees who took on my accounts... which turned out to be three people. Note: I am not blowing my horn. I'm just giving you an idea of what cooperation might do for you. And, what karma/the universe/my protector might have to throw in to the mix.

Gimster, I always try to take the high road, the problem is I I don't like it when people/companies use employees or take advantage of them. My companies philosophy goes against my grain. Give as little as possible and take as much as possible. But, the business world is not often a pretty place.

As for the real estate expenses, I am aware of them. That is why I am choosing to keep my current position, so I have money coming in while so much of it is going out. I have a boyfriend who has been in real estate for over 20 years and he is helping me go into this with my eyes wide open. Also my course gives us a list of expenses. I'm not sure how things are going to work out. I do know that I need to have something on the back burner and as I have been in sales for many years, I thought I'd give real estate a try.

The city that I live in has only low paying jobs (it's a tourist destination). You have to be self employed to make any money.

Kate

My boss had another talk with me. They are doing this in stages which makes me think that they are doing something wrong.

Now that they have hired the new guy they told me today that they are taking my territory away. The territory that I have built up for over 8 years.

I am only allowed to sell in western Canada, and he has all of the east. They won't take my current clients away but anything new, he gets.

Of course I am very unhappy with this and feel that they are doing something very unethical. I am trying to see it from their point of view but really it just stinks.


I'm going to contact the gov't to see what the rules are for commissioned sales people and territories. I just think they are doing this in a way that is very underhanded.
Kate

Sure sounds like that to me too kate...

Kate
I view this as a feminist issue.You worked hard and achieved.This is being taken from you.Along with the recognition of your hard work.
Many women scientists worked on projects and very few were awarded a Noble prize.
This is coming at time when you are concerned both about your son and dedicating yourself to your other children..
But in this life things often are worked ou at a "higher level" and your day will come where you could tell things ae they are.
I have worked with buffoons who disregarded Womens' ability...in particular in special education when one male lecturer asked if a girl "A" had a touch of Downs' There was no answer to that but he brazened his post out and patronised our students..
Look to the future but know we all care that you are treated fairly.
MA

It may be a feminist issue, but it is also an ethical issue. Also employee issue.

I know that if I quit, they can divide up the territory, but I am not sure that they can while they are all my accounts as I have had them for eight years.

It's just a job, I'm aware but they are very underhanded. I do plan to leave as soon as the time is right for me as this company does not have my best interests in mind. They don't care anything about their employees and fire people all the time. They have also been sued by employees in the past for not being paid overtime, wrongful dismissal etc.

So far I am doing nothing wrong so they can't fire me.

I'll let you know what I find out at the Labour Board and if there is anything I can do about this to protect myself. It's worth a try and it's always a good idea to be informed about your rights.
Kate

Protecting yourself is the way to go.Logging everything too.
Keep strong.
MA

Boy, don’t you just wish you would make sales like never before, make them eat out of your hands…and then quit.
AND THEN....have them beg for you to come back.

Hi Everyone,
After going for a nice long walk and a coffee, it's nice and sunny today, I have decided that I do not look out for number 1.

I am far too loyal to a company that does not value employee loyalty. I also expect others to treat me as I treat them and that is not the case with this company.

As I am currently working towards my real estate license I am going to take advantage of having more time on my hands. If they are going to take away my territory and give me less, than I will give them less in the way of hours at the office. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot and make less sales. But, I can sell just as well from home and study at the same time. I have one final exam left.

My company can't find my contract and it actually doesn't say anything about hours at the office anyway.

If they bug me to get the sales up I will suggest to them that they call on the new sales person and bug him.

I am lucky that I have someone backing me who is already in real estate and the market is strong here. He has over 20 years of experience and will help me to get started.

When I start to make some sales then I will quit but not before. I will look out for #1 as it should be, not my companies interests. It's too bad, but they value the almighty dollar over employee loyalty and that is why they are such a mis-managed company. People quit on a regular basis, it's like a revolving door at our head office. I work in a small office in another city or I would have quit by now too.

I did call a lawyer and the labour board and I could quit now and go after them for severance as they are reducing my income, but that may cause me some problems in the future. No point in burning any bridges.

I will just work smart and enjoy more freedom to persue another career. I took today off and don't feel the least bit guilty.

thanks for all of your comments and of course concern.
Kate

Never, give up believing in your own good skills, kate. Never.

Kate, you sound very intelligent and have sound, analytical thinking to back you...no wonder you are a top seller for them.

I don't know of a company that doesn't put the almight dollar first. That is business; however, there ARE companies that don't do it at the expense of their employees...like the company you are referring to. There is such a thing as ethics, and it doesn't sound like this company is very ethical, at all.

You are smart to look out for yourself. If you aren't living your life, who is?

To me, your plan for the future sounds as if it could be very stable and have a good, solid foundation. I'm glad you haven't done what some would have done---a knee-jerk emotional reaction and quit. Instead, you were wise enough to see that you needed to position yourself first! Bravo!

You have a great balance between risk taking and thoughtful. Congratualtions on your decision to look out for numero uno.

Sounds like you have a good plan... don't forget to formulate plan B...good luck.

I have and am taking the entire week off from work. I am staying home and cleaning my house. It appears that my employers have given me a gift. More time off. As I have been basically demoted I will look at the bright side. I am now a part time person and that is all I will give, a part time effort.

I do have a plan 'B', another career. I have been told by many that business is not always fair. I'm not going to cry in my soup and feel hurt because I am female and over 50.

I am glad that I have had a plan 'B' for a while now as I saw the writing on the was over a year ago as my company goes through transition periods and staff on a regular basis.

My motto is have a plan 'B' for every aspect of your life. This doesn't mean you will escape the stress, it just means you will get over it faster. And I am now over it. Time to move on.

Thanks everyone.
Kate

A young woman I know has no Plan B. She is a beautiful being(a model part time) a lovely person but never has a fall back plan.The concept escapes her.
Some of my and my families best decisions have been made after changing track..
Have a happy time being part time
MA

I never used to have a plan "B" age has taught me this. My eldest son flys by the seat of his pants, never has a plan "B" although I have suggested it to him many times.
I've also gone over this with my youngest two.

We all need a fall back plan.
Kate