When DH's lose their sex drive...do they

Nothing yet...............
And he will not go to any dr.

The fact that he won't go to a doctor hurts the most.

In the end it will wind up hurting him the most. I just hope he changes his mind about it.

Di, instead of being subtle, how about beign direct? Can you set up a date for you and him? Perhaps you could do soemthing Christmasy together and then invite him into the bedroom. It doesn't have to be at bedtime. I think you should go for it. Use "I statements." You know, "I miss you, I need you, I want you, I need you." All of the attention may get him in the mood.

Or, do what many wives should do, as I should've done, schedule the doctor's appointment and make him go.

I think men are embarrassed to go to a doctor with this problem.

You have hit the nail on the head Dianne.

There are also other men who think it's going to eventually "get better."

Di, I am pretty sure you have tried everything except the one most important thing...making him go in for a check-up.

Sad to admit here, but I am 'afraid' to "come onto him" for fear of rejection. It's happened before so I am not the 'aggressor'. I wait for him anymore. Too bad. He 'used' to be a tiger.

Funny enough, there are times when we talk about sex (oral sex? LOL!!) while we are on a long road trip, then come home and watch out! But, lately it's a dry spell. Maybe we need another trip.

Plan one today. I don't like to see you robbing yourself of your joy.

So where are you going?

I don't either, Dotsie. I do need to talk to him. There are things he just sees as "my neediness". or a "nagging" thing. He does not know, thru Christ, how important intimacy is. His idea of intimacy is "doing" stuff for me. But my other love languages suffer in the meantime.

:sigh: Oh well. I'll keep praying for him.

There is a written and apparently proven fact that intimacy when good in a marriage is important 10% but when it is bad it is 90% important....I don't make these things up ladies.

i haven't had sex with my husband in over a year...even then it wasn't intercourse...before that it had been a year...
he's been to the doctor (full physical), he's taken viagra which worked a few times (by default?), we've had the heart-to-hearts, he's been prescribed anxiety meds, depression meds, had a sleep study done on him, mri's, cat scans, you name it...he's currently seeing a psychologist who told me to just accept the way my husband is...curiously, he also expressed surprise that i hadn't cheated on him...
this guy is not our first to say that as we've had marriage counselors and individual counselors here and there for some time now...

this guy is the first guy...my husband was headstrong about not seeing a male mental health professional...when it came up again, there were only guys on the list of available providers so he had to pick or not go...he conceded and we went together for a while...

it's not just the sex i'm without, it's everything...for as wild and wonderful as things were in the beginning (of the marriage, not just the relationship) he's since cooled to the point that if he were a woman i'd refer to him as a frigid bitch...he's not just without desire, he's cranky about it...

at one point a little over a year ago i hugged him knowing he wouldn't hug back and just told him that i loved him...he hadn't said "i love you too" in several months and he hadn't said "i love you" in years...i pulled away and asked "does it matter that i say 'i love you'?"...he misunderstood the question and replied "it doesn't matter that you love me"...the psychologist pointed to him misunderstanding the question...i pointed to him having expressed a truth...

he started off pulling away from my holding his hand, progressed to hugging with one arm and then none at all...finally he said one day that he'd had sex when he didn't feel like it and that he thought he should have stronger boundaries than that, and that's when our physical life together ended completely...all the while we'd been seeing professionals (medical and mental health, together and individually), and all i've gotten out of it is a litany of people telling me there's really nothing wrong with him and i just have to accept that...oddly, he's not been called upon to accept that i'm who i am...

he moved out in july and we had a few more sessions after that...i ended my participation because of an incident that happened in august...i told him that i felt like we were divorced save a piece of paper...he agreed...to interject briefly, we are stationed overseas...while we can be separated and have a separation agreement, we can't get a divorce here...to move back to the states before his tour is up would cost us thousands of dollars we simply don't have...we don't live together and have no involvement except where it concerns the kids -- just like a divorced couple...
the psychologist asked him, as a courtesy, if he would agree to leave me be if he saw me out with someone else...he did not agree...in fact he went off...i told him it made no sense for me to save myself for a man who clearly no longer had romantic feelings, much less for me, that my chaste was only for his benefit and was only aggravating me...even the psychologist agreed that he had no right to attempt to restrict my behavior given his harping about having no drive, feeling there was nothing wrong with that, and how i should leave him alone once and for all....additionally, the separation agreement states he has no right to interfere with my life...still he felt it would be horribly wrong for me to step outside the "marriage"...
he goes on and on about how i think sex is all there is to it and refuses to address the fact that he won't even hold hands, that it isn't all about sex, it's about any kind of physical regard at all...

i don't know where the man went that i married, but i know he's no where around...i wish i had realized this sooner and i wish i knew just what in the hell is going on with him...
the psychologist has called me twice to inquire about certain issues but can't get too in depth else he'd violate my husband's confidentiality...
i tell him what i know and leave it at that...

it's not that i don't care, it's that i can't afford to do what a caring person would do anymore...i still have three kids at home and a job and a household to run...the kids and i have so many family meetings i'm about to call a sabbatical but i know it's good the lines are open at least with them...they're old enough to know the surface issues, that this is about marital physical neglect, and they understand what i'm talking about as they too have been on the receiving end of one-armed hugs and a cool silence when they've said "good night dad, love you"...they don't have to know more than that althought i've been told more than once that anyone over the age of 16 could understand sexual frigidity...i'm all about keeping the lines open and talking with my kids about their sex lives, but i'm not going to talk about mine with them...i just can't even think of any way that would ever be appropriate unless my husband actually died from it somehow and the kids wanted to know what the cause was...

i used to be at my wit's end, but now i'm just witless...
this arrangement is not what i would prefer but it's the best for now, financially and for the kids...they want to see him and he does make the effort to see them...he just doesn't hug them hello or say "i love you too" at goodbyes...

it's been heartbreaking, slow horrible heartbreak, not the quick "i gotta get out of this life" announcement of my last husband who made sure it was less than 30 days from "i'm done" to he was gone and out of our lives...it's almost 20 years later and i feel like i'm going through this crap all over again as if it were just yesterday...completely different men, completely different issues, almost the same feelings...i'm not as hopeless and dependent as i was last time when i had no income, but what i have done for myself financially doesn't make up for what mattered the most...

my sister and i were discussing it one day...she's recently divorced from her first husband and is going through a major custody problem...i'd told her a while ago that divorce changes men drastically, that she could not count on any of what she considered to be his bottom lines, but she did anyway and paid dearly for it...
anyway, someone told her divorce was like a death to which she responded it most certainly was not...death is an end and the dead don't come back to haunt you in full view of the kids, friends, cops, etc...divorce is worse than death...divorce is more like alzheimers, especially with regard to the men...i have to go with that...
the slow, agonizing way in which my husband has come to leave me is nothing short of brain damaged in terms of the craziness and inconsistency...

the irony in him not wanting me to cheat is that his slow but sure drain on our love life has created a pain in me that doesn't want physical affection right now...i know i want it eventually, it's not dead, it's just on hold while i get myself better together...i need time to myself -- time not spent trying to "help" him...i exhausted myself trying to understand him, make changes i thought i could make, going to doctors and counselors, reading books, doing this and that and any other thing...gawd it was tiring...i focus on my health which i let slide a little...i work out, i keep up on my writing, i focus on my kids and our home...

i can't stand seeing him anymore...oddly, of late he's been trying to engage me in conversations about his childhood, his issues, etc...it wasn't that long ago when i would've given anything to have had him start a discussion like this, but it's just too late...i'm too tired...it's not like he's asking to come back or try to work on the marriage or anything like that...he just wants to extend his therapy time as far as i'm concerned and that's not a use of my time and effort i'm willing to make at this point...

i guess my only point in sharing is that any woman in this position will eventually come to a point where she has to redefine her life, her expectations, etc...i fought long and hard this time because i didn't want to go through another divorce and i especially didn't want to drag the kids through one...the older two were teeny tiny when my ex and i divorced, they don't know him, my husband now is the only father they've ever known...
i wish the very best for any woman going through this...

msdiana, I applaud you for all you've done to try to stay in the marriage. My heart aches for you because you have truly tried every darn little thing possible and still come up short.

But don't let that fool you. Once you get this behind you, you will do well. Just think of all the energy you've poured into this relationship. Now you'll be able to use positive nergy to set things straight again for YOU!

Keep taking good care of your children and YOU.

I know you are far away from home. Do you have a support system there?

When do you get to come back to the states?

MsDiana God bless you for having the courage not only to share your personal journey but to stand tall against it. This situation usually follows this path, suspicion, surprise, hurt, anger and then to indifference. It's when you have reached the indiffernce stage that it is all but over. This is the stage when we begin to think of our lives, children and our futures and thats as it should be. Something very terrible happens to many men when they reach a certain age, if I knew what it was and how to cure ot, I would be the worlds wealthiest woman. No one has the answer least of all these affected men. It is the most painful thing but you are okay and will be even better as time goes by. Having him hanging around however is a step backwards, he needs to find out what being alone means. Now he has lost nothing he lives his life as he choses to, continuing to neglect your needs.... End it as soon as you can and allow yourself to enjoy the rest of your life and maybe find someone who will truly need and care for you...just my two cents....

msdiana, how brave you are to pour out your soul here, and to come to terms with what is REAL in your relationship, what can't be fixed no matter how hard you try, and for coming to terms with the only solution available to you. Moving on.

I've said before that it is like you actually hear that straw break that everyone says "broke the camels back." Once that happens, so be it. You don't care, you know there is no going back, and you're ready to start putting one foot in front of the other again. You know there is something better out there, and by all that's holy, you won't settle for less. I admire you, and I ache for you at the same time. I will hold you up in prayer.

JJ

msdiana.......JJ expresses it well.
Hope you feel all of us wishing you the best in your new life to come.
Lynne

"how brave you are to pour out your soul here"

yea, it was more like coughing up a huge friggin' hairball...my kingdom for some maalox...

i really appreciate the very kind and supportive words yous guys...it means a lot to me...i struggled with posting this, not so much because of the soul pouring thing but because it didn't seem like as big a deal as the things i see other women going through (affairs, disease, death, etc)...then i read not one but a bunch of posts here and in other places from women hurting with the same thing...it's not my secret anymore...i wish more women would realize that...i'm no catharine zeta jones but i'm sexy and energetic and feisty in my own way and i know now that it wasn't me that caused his problems…this is what i thought for so long...my heart goes out to those women who are so convinced it's their weight, that they had a mastectomy, that they’re older and their wagon is draggin'...i'm not one to go around telling my story to just any old body who will listen but i refuse to keep quiet about it anymore because these women have got to know it wouldn't matter what they looked like: a man with no desire for contact of any kind is simply not their fault...i've told my friends about this, my sister, and a few other women online in a much more anonymous way...i've come to learn that middle-aged men losing desire is more common than men taking off with their young blonde secretaries...my husband did buy a new motorcycle, a fast one to be sure, but it replaced the one he had so that wasn't so very out of character...
i’m convinced now that he isn’t gay (something else i considered for a while) and i’m glad he never had an affair (that i know of) but it doesn’t help that much…the last female therapist i had i fired because of something she said to me…she asked me how i would feel if he did have an affair especially in light of him saying he doesn’t desire anyone, not just me…that wasn’t why i fired her…when i told her i would kill him she said “i have to report that”…that’s why i fired her…she did report it and i was cleared as “no threat to herself or anyone else”…what a bitch…i know they have their rules but c’mon…what did she think i was going to say?…“well at least i know his penis works now!”…jeezy creezy…

i don't have friends here but thank God for the ones i have in the states whose phone calls and emails have been the best for me...we have until next june before we leave...i will miss europe so bad it hurts already, i really do love it here...this is the first place we've ever been that i didn't start thinking about the next place we'd go...the christmas markets don't help that either as this is my favorite time of year and if anyone can do christmas right, it's germany...i fell in love with rothenburg as it looks like all my dreams...i've looked into the real estate there – oh my gawd, it costs so much to live there but it's every bit as beautiful as it is expensive...

if i am able to find a way to stay i will...the kids have expressed an interest in staying and it's a lot easier and cheaper for my older daughter to pursue her archaeological interests here…if only i could find a sexy european man who would understand my need to fly back to the states once a year to shop at Target…sigh…

Your husband sounds very angry. And, why do they decide to have conversations that have been begged for, after the fact? Like it's the last thread that might keep the woman hanging on.

Did you ever see the movie, Nine and 1/2 weeks? It goes along the same lines but is about a relationship that is based only on sex.

I hurt for you. This must be so awful.

Had a chit chat w/DH about this. He says he realizes my needs. However, he mentioned that he's trying to "get healthy" and knows that intimacy continues to be important in our marriage.

But, nothing yet! I guess this is what the Lord meant when He said, "Love is LONGsuffering".

Lord,I want patience NOW!!

MsDiana and others,

My heart goes out to all of you. As many of you know, my marriage has often been the e-ticket to hell. For those of you who are newer, read my poems in Our Voices under marriage, which will tell you a lot.

I've never gone onto the whole story here, partially because, like MsDiana, I've done everything I could and have moved on emotionally, even if physically living in the same house.

Sometimes you just have to find your own strength, and leave their sh-t behind. There's only so much you can do. At a certain point, they need to help themself, and if they don't, you need to walk.

meredith, i couldn't find your poems; i'm figuring i'm looking in the wrong places...could you post the links as i'd really like to read them...

i was digging through some stuff in an attempt to clean up (i love to throw things away when i'm stressed!) and i ran across a few of my poems...this one (follows) hit me hard...it was written many years ago...i should've read my own work more intently...while this particular piece is more about his passive/aggressive mayhem (something else i overlooked), it seems to have forecasted what i would eventually experience from him, a complete shutdown of all affection...

has anyone else experienced that -- reading back on old writing and thinking "how did my writing know but i didn't?"...and yet, it was me writing...


tranquility's last hour

The silence of your love does beckon me.
It whispers always softer, I barely hear it speak

The quiet of your heartbeat asks of me
To keep the peaceful quiet and not disturb its beat.

The calm of all your life suggests to mine
Let boiling water simmer; wake not the sleeping mind.

The stillness of embrace when in your arms
Does capture and imprison the freedom of my charms.

So resting is your body on my own
I feel trapped beneath you, confined in my own home.

I fear the hush of your existence and
The gentle crucifixion of my once loving hand.

What lies beneath the stillness of your soul?
Is this what I am kept for... inevitable boil?

What expectations have you of me now
That I should stay and witness tranquility's last hour?

msdiana, I have definitely experienced what you are talking about. It's crazy, isn't it? I have read old journals and siad, "I wrote that!"

Powerful poetry. Are you still writing?

You will love Meredith's work. Here are the links. You'll have to cut and paste.

http://www.boomerwomenspeak.com/stories/first-strange.html

http://www.boomerwomenspeak.com/stories/first-frost.html

http://www.boomerwomenspeak.com/stories/first-bed.html

oh my god meredith...all i could do was sip at my coffee and stare at your words...i could've written them if i weren't such a ho' for rhyme -- something in my life has to have rhythm...

dotsie, i've been writing for blogcritics.org and i'll always write poetry, although i don't share that often...it's funny how no matter how much one practices, the 16 yr old lovelorn girl still manages to spring forth once in a while and pour out things like "a shadow cast by her weary heart lay helplessly on the ground"...eww...

alas, the older person takes the wheel and still doesn't drive much better...i blew the dust off this one while i was cleaning:

what i won't do

I buy your affection in increments so small
I buy what I can if you're selling at all
The price be my dignity, maybe my pride
A fortune I've paid for you by my side
The haggling continues and into the night
If I don't pay plenty you withhold the prize
"I have no money, can you spare a dime?"
I wait while you ponder the worth of your time
In sickness and health, I panhandle for love
For richer, for poorer, for want of one love

MsDiana, I feel the pain so elequently shared in your poetry. I too have paid the price in dignity and then having to panhandle for the emotions that never came my way was more than I could bear so the union ended in dissapointment, sorrow and finally hatred. I hope your journey into unfullfillment ends better than my own did. I did the best thing for my own psychie and that was to move on and get happy!!!

oh chatty i hope so too...i don't want all the hatred...it almost ate me alive the first time i divorced...i hope so much that i learned enough from the last time to at least guide myself a little better through this time...

i was talking with my sister and in the course of my conversation realized that i am a 43 yr old woman married to a 45 yr old man that a 26 yr picked out...i wouldn't have a 26 yr old pick my mate now so i think i'm going to start with being a nicer and more forgiving person of the 26 yr old that did pick this man...she had different needs than i do now, saw different things than i see now...
we all say we did what we thought was right at the time, and i did, but i wonder how much thought we give to who we were and that who we were is still with us...

Dotsie, thanks for printing the links.

MsDiana, to rhyme or not is a personal choice. There's good rhyming poetry and bad rhyme, good free verse and horrible free verse. It's about finding your voice, which you definitely have done. Your poems are beautifully expressed.

Our writing, especially poetry, is like a grieving process -- for what once was, for what never really was, for what could've been.

From moi, again:

Poetry is the friend who comforts me
when no one is there
to hold me when I cry.

Thank you, suzieq. Unfortunately my hyst and my HRT's have NOT removed my libido.

But you are right. Trying every "trick in the book" just does not cut it. We go on again/off again as well. I think this time it must be, at least 6-9 months. Feels like I'm re-virginated!!

And yes.....when I, too, look the other way, I see a man who is lovely and loves me unconditionally......and does not hold back from saying so. I just wish it were "showing" me so!!

Hi all, entering the conversation a bit late,,,i agree with Dotsie and those of you who say..dont be subtle. Men communicate very concretely and dont read minds (women do) so dont assume men want to be treated or talked as we do....Be direct. Tell him what you want in very direct terms..remind him of times you have had together..Don't apologize...
Women and men both have significant body changes at midlife...not easy for any of us...putting it under the carpet doesnt work...
Good luck!

in Adventure,

Jenn

Hi ladies.
Haven't checked into the web site for awhile - but happened onto this topic and felt I should throw out one other possibility to the hubby's low libido.....could he be looking at porn?
That seems to be a big problem for many porn addicts......they lose all interest/energy in having sex with their real life partners- becaouse all of their desires are being 'handled' by their use of porn.

So much time and effort is put into the porn (whether it be magazines, movies or the internet) that they don't need their significant other for their sexual releases.

Just might want to look for a hidden addiction.

If you care to check out the Oprah Show Message Boards - specifically the Nov. 30th show about the minister/singer that revealed his porn addiction. You might be enlightened to learn of all the women discovering that their husbands/boyfriends have been hiding porn addictions for some time.

Just thought it might be worth looking into from a different perspective- not to ignore health issues, of course!!!!!

http://boards.oprah.com/WebX?14@142.tPA2cG35sA2.0@.f0ce262!skip=0&view=C

This is the web page I was referring to. There are over 1,500 messages posted!!

Just something to ponder in this situation.

msdiana,

thanks so much! Your words are greatly appreciated. I write because I have to.

Maybe some day I'll be famous

Found a site for all the women whose husbands performance or lack of same has been dissappointing of late...check it out, better still have him check it out...

www.makethecall.com

Kay5, good point. Tha amount and availability of porn on the interent sickens me. Instead of peeking at a Playboy magazine, kids can see anything and everything online. I think it's so sad.

The WWW is awesome if used in a wholesome way, but there are so many horrible things on it, like porn and gambling. I'm not against gambling, but many young men are getting in trouble with it.

Did you know the UN wants to take control of the internet? That's pretty disturbing......

Daisygirl

Just wanted to bring this subject back up because of a similar discussion in the newspaper today.

The man said he was taking Cialis for erectile dysfunction and it was prescribed by his urologist. He wondered why his urologist was sending him to a cardiologist as well. The doctor's answer in the paper was that erectile dysfunction is a sign of coronary artery disease.

OMG!! No wonder I hear of men having heart attacks. Thanks for sharing this with us.

As for me and my dh........nothing yet. :/

That makes sense since they both involve a healthy flow of blood (or lack of). Interesting.

Truly sorry to hear that Di.

Di has he or you checked out;

www.makethecall.com

There may be underlying health issues related to his dysfunction, but another angle may be one that my late husband brought to light before he passed away a year and half ago. He was writing a book on sexual desire and relationships.
I read what he wrote and at first was hurt by what he had to say but took it to heart and did something about it....too late, I'm afraid...
He said in his book that as women age, they start to look more and more like men many of them wearing large t-shirts over jeans and tennis shoes, no make-up, short or dowdy hair, their shape takes on a round soft appearance and according to him love isn't enough to generate sexual desire.
Granted not everyone stays young looking and desirable as they age, but it is possible to turn a guy off by looking just like him.
I had gained about 40 lbs. and wore "proper" clothing, Cabin Creek gathered pants outfits and well, just anything that would cover my burgeoning body.
He just wasn't turned on by that and our sex life was very difficult.
I'm not saying this is your problem because you may be a total fox, but it did make a big difference in our marriage. My present husband doesn't even need V even though he is 59 and I am 56. We are like two teenagers even though much of the rest of our relationship sucks...at least that part is great.

Thank you, number 5. Not sure what it is either (he says age), but I'm still tapping my fingers...biting my nails...twisting my hair...biting my lip...wringing a towel...FRUSTRATED!!!

I LOVE my husband, unconditionally.

Number5, you make some viable, valuable points. Men are very sense oriented creatures. It's the sight, scent, even sound, of a woman, that seems to trigger desire. For women, it may often be triggered by a partner's inner attributes, as opposed to their physical ones. Kindness, gentleness, warmth, caring, may be more stimulating to a woman, than the sight of her partner strutting around in a tiger-striped thong.

There is the flip-side, Number5, to what you've stated. This occurs when the woman is a looker, even as she matures, stays in shape, turns heads, out and out sexy, and her man finds he hasn't matured as nicely as he'd hoped, hasn't weathered the years as well. I know of instances where a man's wife has been mistaken for his daughter, and he, only five years his wife's senior. Far from the man finding this a compliment, as to stud-points, for him, it was a real libido killer. I've even heard of a man stating that he and his attractive, sexy wife didn't look as though they should be a couple. Men, as we're discovering more and more, may have far greater difficulties accepting their aging selves, than women. Possibly, many mature men abstain from sexual intimacy not because of how they perceive their women, but more from how they perceive themselves.

And one last comment, here...I have actually read that Viagra, and its copy-cats, are often viewed as the mature man's response to HRT, for women. I have to admit, in some ways, that line of reasoning makes sense, Ladies.

http://www.intouchwithjeannine.com

Jeannine...

Well...that was quite the visual,

"the sight of her partner strutting around in a tiger-striped thong".

Think, I'll go for the kindness, gentleness, warmth, caring.

Jeannine, you are right, I think. Maybe its the fear of performance that kills the libido. The poor guy probably already fears that his wife will be the target of other males and he won't be an adequate lover for her.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I feel like a flibberdygibbit doing it, but a lot of the time I praise my husband for his sexual prowess. He says for him, its the response he gets from me when we make love that turns him on more than my verbal praise.
Maybe if the female appears like she has to have him and desires him, he will respond in kind...?
I personally think the age old "dance" of mating as carried on in nature, will never end until both partners decide sex isn't important for them any longer.

Verbal communication about sexual intimacy at times other than when you can jump in the sack is also key. Don't you think the teasing helps? Kinda give you somethng to look forward to when the kids are all tied up (not literally).

I have a feeling Danita will jump in here. Where are you girlfriend?

I agree Dotsie to a point. Some men when feeling inadequate don't want any form of sexual chit chat and consider harmless teasing as an insult or inuendo towards there performance. After countless sessions with women and men I find that we women as a whole do not look down on our men when they go bald, or get a beer belly or look aged. We accept them as our man, our champion, our lovers and even feel them cute BUT they on the other hand, the men seem to take it as a personal assault on them when we age, get wrinklked, grey or chubby. They don't seem to honestly see themselves the way they look and thats when the problem of looking for something/someone better/younger/prettier starts....Men as a whole are not realistic at all usually. What we consider normal aging they consider tragic (to them.) Just an observation.

Allelujah!!!!!

No other message needed if ya'll know what I mean.

That's all I have to say about THAT!!
~Forest Gump

[ January 15, 2006, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Di ]