the holidays

The holidays are difficult for my hubby. He is estranged from both of his daughters. They are both highly selfish, hateful young women, especially the younger one. Last Christmas was our first one not having them here. They are angry about virtually everything and blame their Dad for all of it. It's a long, long story and I won't carry on about it in this post but he sits and cries at times and wonders why and how they could be so mean. The youngest daughter wouldn't even allow us at her wedding this past August. THAT was a very strong statement that she made. It's been heart wrenching to watch this unfold over the past several years that I've known him. I have never seen two young adults (25 & 27) so narcissistic and cold hearted. So, the holidays can be very bittersweet as he has no family and those that I have left try to include him and make him feel a part.

LadyJane, I used to sell homes in vacation spots in Spain to Germans.
It was very strange, but almost all buyers were escaping from some estranged family situation. There were many very bitter and saddened Boomers who tried to make a new start in a foreign country.

I’m so sorry to hear that your husband is going through such heart wrenching pain. How very lucky that he has you to be his family and help him carry on.

Isn't it awful that these people hurt so bad that they feel they have to run to get away? But I understand it. I fight so hard to NOT be bitter about anything in my life because it only hurts the bitter person and those that are closest. And, of course, the holidays seem to bring up so much....any little sore spot within us is magnified. Last year, while angry about the situation with his daughters, my husband strung lights and decorations like I've never seen him do before. All the while on a ladder lighting up the house, garage, side shed in the cold he cried like a baby. It's so hard and I get VERY angry about his treatment. I've seen him do way too much for those girls out of love and they are so terribly selfish that they can't even think of what this is doing to him. So sad.

I think the X wife causes a lot of the bitterness or standoffishness some kids feel. Through the years, I'm sure words have been said.

My DH feels "something" but cannot pinpoint it. Even though his kids tell him they love him, and I know they do, it's just a bit uncomfortable. Divorce is NOT something that anyone, in my opinion, enjoys! The kids do really suffer. After all, their family unit is crushed. I feel very badly and have told my step-daughter that, if I die before her Dad, I'd love to see her parents remarry just so they can have them together!

However, that being said, my DH is one to not say ONE WORD and allows his kids (35 and 37 now) to make their OWN judgments. Eventually they see how the mother is/has been. Not saying that DH is perfect either! But he does get hurt when his daughter went to see her other over the summer (while she was pg with #2) and never once asked to come here. He was very hurt. Wouldn't you be? But, I keep my mouth shut. If she ever asks, and she has asked what Dad felt about something, I'll then say "Ask your Dad". I will NO LONGER GET IN TROUBLE for speaking for him...'cause I am usually WRONG in my response.

Yes, unfortunately there's a very cold-hearted ex involved here. She did a white collar crime seven years ago and ended up in prison. When the kids were young she constantly badmouthed her husband (my hubby now) in front of them. Awful things were said. It was so much worse as they got older. I can't believe what he put up with...I wouldn't have! He so wanted to keep the family unit together but I'm not sure why while living in that hell. Now the kids are spoiled rotten, have sworn allegiance to their mother and it's all their father's fault. They'd blame him for bad weather. We had them around for holidays at one time and while they were here they were sweet (excellent actresses) but after that they wouldn't even answer their phones when their dad tried to call. They wouldn't respond to the messages he left them either. It's so sad. SO many young women would give anything to have a sweet dad like him. I've never in my life seen anything like it. Now he also has a 6 yearold granddaughter that he hasn't seen in over a year. We have no way of knowing whether she's received birthday and Christmas gifts. There's never even a thank you card. Sometimes it just overwhelms him and he grieves so deeply. We're sure that their mom has had plenty to say to sway them since the divorce 6 years ago.

Ladyjane, I've been reading this and at a loss for words or any good advice. What's being done is despicable. I'm sorry your husband has to go through all this pain.

Ladyjane, that is a very difficult situation for your hubby and his grown daughters. And your role as his 2nd wife, is a tough one because you won't be seen as completely objective no matter what you might say in neutral words.

As someone who cares about him, at least you can inform the girls (hard to think they are mature women with that sort of behaviour) if he should become seriously ill/injured.

Has he ever tried to talk to each of them that if they aren't interested in updating him about their lives (a neutral topic for his children to talk about/vent over to any parent), nor return his calls/cards/letters or emails, then they don't have to worry about him any more. He can have them define the next time each of them will contact him (to indicate the door to talking is still open to them)..since he perceives that he is pestering them with unanswered phone calls. They have to understand how their actions are being perceived by others.

Sure, that might rouse a severe reaction. But he could always indicate that he's there to listen if they need to talk.

Still, this is a heart-wringer. Most likely each of his girls probably have unresolved issues with other people in their lives outside of the family..if they have such a wrongly misunderstood relationship with their father. I'm a big believer that large unresolved/misunderstood emotional relationships with a parent... can (but not always) spill over into other relationships ...potential mate, work relationships, siblings, etc.

Is your hubby accomplished/passionate about a particular interest/area in life, outside of you and his family? If his daughters could one day ...view the best of their father, in a completely different role.

I know I could not completely shake what my mother was like, until I saw her interact with her sisters. It gave me a clue what she possibly had been like within her own family. To see a more 3D view of the parent, as a woman/man in multiple roles.

I know my partner was furious and sad at the beginning of his divorce when he suspected his ex might have said negative stuff about him. However that seemed to fade away as time marched on. Probably because she was busy with her own life and her then, new partner. Besides she had the children (when they were not legally adult) 60% of time or more, as per child custody arrangements.

By now, I think the children, at least his daughter, is able to view her mother more objectively. Based on side comments she made when we have talked intellectually about women and life paths that they choose. But still she will always bond closest to her mother. Am I hurt? No, I never was.

But I know I am quite different from her mother in terms of personality and drive/motivation.

As I said earlier elsewhere, she and her father (my partner) talk amiably on intellectual topics for hours that she probably doesn't find the same topic(s) connection with her mother.

In the midst of all this interwining families, there is my partner's grandmother who is slowly deteriorating in her dementia right now. SHE, the gentle soul, has served to be abit of glue for all us folks coming together as "family" from different phases of life. She is from WWII era in Germany, so she serves as live, gentle reminder to her adult grandchildren, how not to be selfish, to live frugally and creatively with little money. Her personal history gives the grandchildren a legacy to understand the humble upbringing of their immigrant father(my partner),...if they should ever view their father in the wrong light. They know how consistently their father has tried to look after his failing mother for the past decade or so. At least, they can each see their father positively in yet another role..... as a son.

It will be a miracle if OMA (my partner's mother) lives until this Christmas..or even her 93rd birthday in Feb. 2008.

Orchid, thank you for your time and thoughts into this heart breaking situation. I will try to answer your thoughtful questions. A year ago August, the rope finally broke. His youngest daughter told him that she was furious because he "hadn't taken the time" like other fathers would do and take her to lunch for her birthday. Prior to that he had tried to call continuously saying that her birthday was coming up and he wanted to get together with her...just let him know. It was always ended with "I love you and think of you all the time." I was present many of the times that he made such calls and left messages on their voicemails. So a couple of days before her birthday he sent a card with a gift certificate enclosed. In every card they've ever received he writes a new poem for them! Then she got very upset with him on the phone and told him he didn't do "enough" and that the gift certificate was useless. The only time we ever saw her new place was in June prior to that. There were family photos everywhere, except of us. Fast forward to that phone call I just mentioned. She said "I only put photos up of people I have a relationship with." She then added that he was only her biological father. He was crushed. Right then he said that they've both made obvious decisions not to have him in their lives and he fell silent to them. There was similar happenings with the older daughter at that time, although she had never said the things that the other one had. After that he sent cards and gift certificates at his older daughter's and granddaughter's birthdays in Oct. '06...no word from them. He did the same at Thanksgiving and again at Christmas last year. Again, no word of receiving them and certainly no thanks. He was totally silent to them. Then they all made up a little...at least he felt the door opening again during the winter and had a few phone conversations. The youngest daughter was planning a lavish wedding in August of this year. We had never met her fiance of 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She always had an excuse and later we were accused of never trying to make the effort to meet him...totally and utterly ridiculous!!! We kept saying "anytime at all...tell us when and where and we'll do it." We also constantly asked with eagerness to meet him. When we couldn't meet her expectations in the amount to donate toward the wedding she threw a fit and told him he wouldn't be invited and if we showed up we would be ousted by the police. Okay, now it's June of this year. He went to both daughters separately as one final attempt to opening the door. He was met with tears, hugs, kindness. He gained some hope and thought "maybe this has worked." He apologized for anything at all that they may have misconstrued during their growing up years...anything at all that may have offended. He was told by the lying, manipulative younger girl that she had tests done and she may have cancer. This of course upset him (something she truly enjoys doing, I believe). She promised to call him the next night to give him the report. He waited on pins and needles. Nothing. Days went by and more calls of concern to her voicemail. He was crushed....again, knowing she hadn't changed at all and the meeting hadn't mattered or changed anything. A week or so later he found out when he had his meeting with the older daughter that the younger had nothing more than a slight beginning of a stomach ulcer!Knowing things were futile, we took it upon ourselves and went to her fiance's place of work and met him. He seemed like a sweet young man and made us feel very welcome but said he didn't want to be involved with all the mess in the family. Needless to say, we knew this would be the "final nail in the coffin" but felt we had nothing to lose. She got furious of course and that was done and over. The wedding day rolled around and my hubby had such a horrible time dealing with it, knowing he couldn't even walk his daughter down the aisle. He felt that was a huge statement, to take something so personal as a wedding and leave a parent out of it. Since then, the younger attempted to blast him on the phone a couple of months ago but he wouldn't allow it anymore. He's trying to regain some self respect. Even so, his heart hurts so much. He acknowledges that he wasn't perfect as a parent as none of us could be but the situation is so terrible. All he's ever wanted is just the occasional call to check in and a very occasional chance to see them. He's a Vietnam veteran, fireman for 25 years with life saving awards, a musician. There are many facets to him but they choose for some reason to blame him for anything and everything. I do wonder especially about the younger daughter if she doesn't have a mental illness, a personality disorder. I have never in my life seen such selfishness and hatefulness. Anyway, I know this is long but I have to admit it feels good in a strange way to finally get it out. They've managed to ruin such times that should be good such as holidays. Father's Day is hell, needless to say.

I must add to all of that catharsis that I am warm and very tender about this with him. I've never gotten frustrated with him. I listen, support and try to soothe but to be honest, I'm so angry with them that it's hard sometimes. I believe that in their miserable existence they carry on as if nothing has happened, not caring who they hurt, especially a dad like him. This has been good for me to be able to vent somewhere. I feel like it spills into our everyday life more than anything should and has ruined some times for us that SHOULD be nice. It's very, very emotionally exhausting. I fear that he is trying to harden his feelings. That can translate into bitterness. But he's attempting to protect his heart, I believe. He's too sensitive to just let it go. He continually mourns the loss as if they were dead. Holidays just bring it to the surface continually. Last year was the first Christmas without them.

Sometimes, you have to walk away and leave the ball in their court. Sounds like they enjoy victimizing him. What a sad situation. He sounds like a jewel.

Ladyjane, one of these days, I hope the girls come to their senses. Meantime, I'm so glad he has you to spend his holidays with.

They best beware because in my lifetime it has been proven many many times that: What goes around, comes around, and they aren't building any good karma for themselves.