Just when you think your kids couldn't surprise you, they do! My son David who is having serious problems of his own dropped everything to rally round his old mom. I was surprised, emotional and will be forever grateful to him for putting my saddness above his own busy life. Shows me I may have actually done something right raising such a kind, and wonderful man. I feel blessed.
Have your own kids done something you never expected?
Yes, my kids have, and I believe their father has taught them well. They've also done very thoughtful things for Ross which touches my heart. All htree are very different so it's interesting to see how each reaches out in their own way.
My daughter is very thoughtful. Just last week a classmate of hers was in the hospital with pregnancy complications. She took her flowers from our garden. That night the gal lost her baby (five months along). My daughter got a sympathy card for her and also got a sympathy card for the class to sign. How sweet. It doesn't have to be for me. I just love seeing thoughtfulness in action.
Chatty...I am so happy that David "rallied 'round " you in your time of need...and why wouldn't he? it's obvious from all of your posts that he loves and relies on you alot...:)
Dotsie..you daughter sounds so sweet..I'm sure that her thoughtfulness went a very long way in helping her girlfriend feel better..she sounds like you.
My kids are very thoughtful...and they show their love for me in big and small ways often...I feel so lucky in that respect. Last week my oldest daughter Mandy sent me a big bouquet of spring flowers on the date of my deceased mother's Birthday...she knew I would be feeling blue that day and she just wanted to cheer me up...it did!!!!
Have your own kids done something you never expected?
That's a good question, Chatty. Our youngest son surprised us once with a paid trip to Spain.( That was his thank you for us taking care of his daughter for almost 2 years.) Our oldest son is the steady reliable one. He's there when we need him...no surprises. Actually, I am the one who loves to surprise others. Maybe that is more a girl thing. I don't know,...but I sure would love to be pleasantly surprised more often.
Not having any of my own children, I am reticent to reply to this, but....
If you asked your children to do something, would they? We come from experience and know what is needed to be done. If we simply asked for help, wouldn't most kids respond positively?
I hate to mention this but after all I am the one who asked the question in the first place. Well, my loving son forgot my birthday. He remembered it today when he got a call from his step-daughter because she was angry he'd forgotten her birthday that was today. Thats when he remembered mine. I listened to all the reasons he'd forgotten and then instead of saying, "oh, thats alright," as I usually do when he makes a call such as this. This time I said, "okay pick a time and place and you can make it up to me." It got so quiet I thought he'd fainted. He said, well, okay om we wnat to come over anyway and see the new dog.
You see even though my son makes a very good salary he is tight fisted. Oh, he'll take the gifts given (and expected) but always seems to be cash poor when it's time to remember someone else. I am sick and tired of being on the other end on his excuses and it will not be permitted, and a phone call is not good enough either. It's not like he lives hundreds of miles away, he is 20 minutes away. He's an adult and he'd best start behaving like one... I bet he wouldn't forget his new piece of tails birthday or anything else. Don't know about you but it really makes me mad.
Oh, Chatty...you have my sympathies for sure...I love how you responded to him putting the issue of him not doing anything back on him. You go mom! I can relate to the cheapness of a child...my case, step-son. But, he'll tell you he's tight-fisted and doesn't apologize for it. Let us know what he does for your birthday...what would he do if you didn't acknowledge him on his birthday? What goes around comes around.
Oh Chatty, I would be mad too. And the 70th birthday is a big one. It’s terrible that he forgot it. Something like this could happen with my own sons…that’s why I remind them…weeks ahead!!! Lol. Pride? Who me? No, it’s not a matter of pride, it’s a matter of kicking axx. Sorry…but my sons often get my goat too. You aren’t alone here.
Another thing, in Germany birthday parties are celebrated a bit differently. The birthday person gives the party, and invites everyone out to eat or at their place. That way, no one can forget. In exchange, you get invited to a lot of parties as well. It evens out. So maybe, next time, do it the German way. Invite friends and family over to your party, that way nobody can forget.
Chatty, thank goodness we are at a age that we've finally learned WE DO MATTER and we tell it like it is. He should have acknowledged you big day. It was a big deal, for Pete's sake. I love how you stood your ground.
WE DO MATTER. YOU MATTER!
The thing is, a card would have been nice, and I know you, that would have been the most special card in the world.
Just contributing my two-cents worth of venting...I absolutely detest the way my hubby's son treats him. They live 30 minutes away. We've bought everything and anything for their children (though we're still not allowed to see them right now, nobody is). We've bought expensive snowsuits, bicycles, outfitted the GD with all of her school clothes, give big gift cards (at their request) for all occasions. But he never phones. Never acknowledges his father's birthdays or Father's Day.
In our family, we adored our father. And I would give anything to be able to phone him, cook for him, visit him, celebrate him. So it's incomprehensible how this son can treat his father so miserably...with no excuse. My husband is so generous, paid his son's way all through university, has helped in whatever way ever asked for...all for nothing in return. It really makes me angry.
There, that's my vent. Breathe deep. Now I'll let it go, again.
I believe there comes a time when we all have to stop making excuses for bad behavior. Eagle, it makes me so sad for your hubby. He deserves so much more. And not because of the gifts he so generously gave, but because he did so with a good heart.
I'm right there with you on wanting one more minute with Daddy. The time to tell someone you care is NOW folks.
Eagle, I care. And I care for your hubby as well.
It's just not right. Been there, had it happen to me a few times until I said, "You will respect me. I am your Mother and I've earned that place in your heart. Some day I won't be here, and I just hope you won't live with regrets."
Fortunately for me, it hit home.
I pray that his son's heart opens up before it's too late.
Thanks JJ. While there's no excuse, I suppose we would have to factor in his wife's bullying...everyone in the house is afraid of her, she flies into these terrible tantrums if you just look at her wrong (and you never know from one moment to the next what her definition of "wrong" is). Very verbally abusive to hubby's son. He's been wanting out for a long time, but she always threatens to take the children overseas so he's afraid he'll never see them again. Very, very sad. The whole situation makes me sad - and angry when I think about it, which I try not to as much anymore.
I have found that when calling a threateners bluff one usually finds out thats all it is, a bliff Eagle. Son needs to be a man and let her have her comeupins.Your correct however, it is sad.
JJ I would have loved a card even if he made it himself but HE FORGOT that too. All I ever expect on a special day such as my birthday or mothers day is to see his face, is that asking too much?
His birthday is before mine in April so he had already gotten a nice gift from me.
I am waiting to see how long it takes him to make an appearance. He waits too long and I won't answer the door...
So often if we really listen then the questioner answers their question themselves..often as an afterthought..Eagle perhaps you can think if my point is so.. But nothing can be resolved if the person with the anger does not acknowledge this themself..and take action.
Well, at this point, I am this woman's scapegoat. I think she cannot acknowledge that she's not perfect or ever at fault. I do think that she could be an obsessive-compulsive perfectionist and therefore definitely afraid of being "found out" to be imperfect. I think when I dared to talk back to her way back in March, it infuriated her, not that I talked back, but that she had such a huge temper tantrum over such a small event. So now when she retells the story, I have become a larger-than-life villain in her retelling. She simply cannot even consider the possibility that she did anything wrong herself. It could well be herself that she cannot forgive (for being imperfect and found out), so she projects all of that disgust and rage at me.
She projects that perfectionism onto everyone else, seemingly incapable of accepting flaws in anyone; she's driving her daughter to the point of burn-out with her obsessive need for her daughter to be first in everything, school, piano, Chinese school...she made her daughter do Chinese homework when they were here Christmas Day.
sigh. I've apologized, but she refuses to forgive. I feel sorry for her. And anxious for my GD who would benefit much more from learning about forgiveness than scapegoating and the kind of mercilessness that leads one to a life of inner misery and perpetuating anger. Her mother is such an unhappy, angry woman. I worry that my GD will grow up the same way if she doesn't learn about forgiveness and mercy even within the family unit.
Eagle, there are just some people that you can’t talk to. It’s a no win situation. It sounds like this woman is her own worst enemy. Trust that your grandchild’s, genes from your side of the family, will allow her to see things with a more open mind. She will be influenced by peers and teachers along the way. Often they hold the stronger cards, especially if the mother is relentless and cold hearted. Trust these smart children. Really, the good usually wins over the bad. Someday, your grandchild will be at your doorstep. Believe me, that will happen.
What is the child's relationship to the father like?
I'm sorry to hear of this situation. Somehow your step daughter-in-law became toxic in her behaviour over time.
Is she an accomplished person in her own endeavours herself?
It would be nice at least that there would still be family gatherings.
Some distance for awhile is necessary. There's not much you can do re your hubby-his son relationship. Somehow I get this powerful feeling that even if son wanted to improve closer relationship, he is afraid of more disruption/misunderstanding from wife at this time.
Good insight, Orchid, especially your last paragraph...hubby's son is definitely afraid of more disruption - everyone's afraid of this woman. And the reason he doesn't do anything or stand up to her is because she continuously threatens to take the children to China and never allow him to see them again. So he's clearly just letting her have her way for the time being.
We're fairly certain now that the mother is slowly but surely brainwashing the daughter (unsure of the son) against her father...our granddaughter is convinced that her father doesn't care about her, which could not be further from the truth. But we think (and we have further recent reason to be sure) that the mother constantly attacks the character and intentions of the father (hubby's son).
It is complicated, sad and beyond our reach for now. She did allow the son's mother (hubby's ex) to stay ONE night two weekends ago, but was barely accommodating - didn't want the son to set up a bed for her (was going to make her sleep on the floor) but it was the granddaughter (nine years old) who convinced her to let her grandmother at least sleep on an air mattress.
I suppose if there's a silver lining in this situation is that now that I'm the scapegoat (hubby's ex has been the scapegoat for many years), it opens the door for the ex (the blood grandmother) to finally visit her grandchildren (which has been denied her for many years). So I'm very happy about that.
Still NO answer or call from my son and my birthday has come and gone some 17 days ago since we spoke. Am I ticked off, YOU BETCHA!!!
I changed my phone number July 8th. just to see how long it takes him to realize it is disconnected and show his face around here. No one but mom has the new number and she is not sharing it with anyone.
That also helps me end calls from NEW people asking me to please, please edit their manuscript, good Lord they are coming out of the woodwork this summer???
I have never been as angry as I am right now and yet I am unusually calm and feel like, OH WELL!!! I guess sometimes it becomes enough and for someone like me, when I'm done, I'm done... I am always here to do for everyone else but am ignored when it's my time to get the attention, so why bother?
I believe 70 is a big birthday, many people don't live much past 70, but apparently it wasn't any more important to my selfish, spolied, inconsiderate brat than 40, 50, or 60 was...
Sorry for the rant but hey, it's how I am feeling...
Tomorrow I am meeting with a Realtor to see about listing this house, and Sassy and me will be going back to the Midwest where I was truly happy...
Did your son always acknowledge your birthday close to the actual day?
Make yourself as accessible as possible to your kids as soon as possible by giving them your new phone number. I would want that from my parents. No planned maneouvres. Just straightforward openness. Time is precious.
Know you aren’t alone in this situation. And also know that those parents who get snubbed and treated poorly from their adult children are more than you think. You don’t need to be an alcoholic or abusive parent for a child to go his/her own way.
I have heard so many tragic stories of estranged parents, who have literally fled their home surroundings, in order to flee the pain and disappointments. I know; - I have sold their houses. Maybe moving close to your brother and mother is the answer. Whatever you decide, Chatty, choose the people who love you. Choose and form your own family. We are all God’s children anyway. We are all family.
Chatty, I am so, so sorry. And Edelweiss, for you too. People can be so thoughtless at times, and I imagine it is even worse when it is your own children.
Try to let go, if you can. Don't let it change who you are and how you act.
I always go to the Serenity Prayer at times like this.
God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change The courage to change the things I can And the wisdom to know the difference.
My son has always been very self centered and selfish and believe me he wasn't raised that way. I've always tried to teach by good example but there have just been too many insults by being ignored or pushed aside, and this is NOT the first time.
I agree Orchid, time is precious and HE better realize it because finally after all these many years of being put last behind everyone and everything else I have stopped turning the other cheek so to speak, and allowing myself to be treated in such a manner. I am SOMEBODY, I am his MOTHER as JJ put it and do not deserve this bad treatment.
Edelweiss and Anno, not sure where I will be moving if I can sell this place. I want to be somewhere where they have rain and plenty of it and friendly people.
After losing one son to drugs this is hard but I am unbelievably not all hot and bothered emotionally. Plus if I am able to move, he might find me gone when and if he does try to contact me in the future. It is amazing to me to even be able to say this BUT I don't care if he calls or not, comes over or not, after all it is only a couple times a year he shows up anyway when it's time for him to have a birthday or something else that is for him. Or when I open my check book taking his entire family out for dinner and fun. Those days are over!!!
I think sometimes as people we just get sick and tired of all the bull//it!
Chatty...I feel your pain...as well as Edelweiss's. I am, once again, estranged from my sons. It seems if they have a Mother in their life they can't 'be the man'. I did not go to my son's wedding last year and will probably never see any grandchildren. Chatty, I hope you reach a place where you can accept where life has brought you and let go of the anger. Grief carries with it many stages and I've been through all of them concerning this...but, since I've gone through this three times with my boys I've got some battle scars and saw this coming, again. Some of what happened completely blind-sided me and one of my sons, according to a counselor he suggested I see, told me that he's never forgiven me for the divorce and breakup of his home as a little boy and he's been sabotaging my relationship with his brother ever since...resentment? Jealousy? Payback? I don't know. With the other son it always stems around the woman in his life...first, the stripper...oh yes...the kind of person you bring home to mama. She made me public enemy #1 when I asked her to leave my home for her vulgar behavior. He didn't speak to me for about a year...not until he broke up with her. Relationship #2 made me enemy #1 when I voiced (in private to him) my disapproval of this girl's flatuating and loud burping at the dinner table while she laughed and thought it all so funny. Again, he didnt' speak to me for quite some time. Both sons ganged up on me and said I had no right to judge despite this stuff happened in MY home. Girl 3# is someone I won't discuss here because she's now married to my son and I don't want to go there. But, between his brother and his wife I stood no chance at all and am again enemy #1. I was accused of things I didn't do. I was accused of always playing the victim and about the cruelist things sons and DIL could say to their mom and MIL was said to me. Mother's day comes and goes with no contact. When your son thinks nothing of telling you you're "F'd up, you F'ing need help, etc.", it's time to cut ties from that person. Christmas/birthdays/holidays...will no longer be shared with my sons. It's all gone and all over. The last thing that was said to me by one of them or my DIL is "HA, I win. You lose. Maybe you should be worried." in a private message to this forum several months back. I have an idea who it is but will never be 100% sure. It was cruel and to kick someone when they're down like this is beyond cruel...it's malicious. I mean, what kind of person does this and feels good about themself? I'm bringing this up, Chatty, because you are never going to change your son and how he treats you...he may come around for a little while but in the end their true colors will come through and you will be disappointed again and again. I've gone through the heartbreak 3 times and frankly am tired of it and if my finding peace means I never see them again then so be it. If they prefer being this way over showing respect for their Mother then I'm not the one who needs to see a counselor...they are. And she said she'd be more than happy to tell them that any time they had balls enough to face her. I won't tell you what she thinks of what my DIL told me...she did say they were heartless and speaks volumns of what kind of person is at the heart of those kinds of remarks. It's one thing to be disappointed in someone but to take it to the level she did says more about her than it does me. I am proud that I did not get down on the level she did but maintained my dignity and calm. I was praying during her ranting for God to keep me in his hands and calming spirit...He did and I am grateful that I maintained. My counselor told me I was a stronger woman than she is...she would have told her DIL where to get off. If my kids had been minor's then I could say I'm responsible...but when they're adults and act like this, it's on them. This is on your son, Chatty...and he is the one who has to look in the mirror and live with his decisions concerning you. My view is if he can live without you, so can you live without him. Not what you wanted as his Mother, but you can't make someone want to be in your life who doesn't want to be there. They can blame you, be mad at you, say you're F'd up, resent you for not thinking their poop doesn't stink (or their girlfriends), but in the end it's what they have to live with. I did the best I could under the circumstances. I was the best Mother I could be. And like you, Chatty, I earned that respect because I'm 'mom'. If they don't want to see that then they are the one's who will eventually, down the road, get what they give through their own children. What goes around comes around. I miss the boys I remember who showed me respect. I miss the boys I remember who allowed me to be a mom. I miss having boys who would ask the woman in their life to show respect to their Mother...I've never had that and I think it's because I was divorced and they didn't have a man in their life to teach them that their Mother should be respected no matter what. Their dad sure as hell wasn't ever going to teach them to respect me. Maybe, in the end, this is the root cause of it all. I don't know. And maybe it was he who sent that final message saying he'd won and I'd lost. I'll never know. Chatty...it would have been very easy for me to curl up and stop living because my son's did what they've done. And for awhile I went through a lot of griving...but, I snapped out of it and woke up and decided that life is too short to waste it on wanting someone who doesn't want me. I looked up and there smiling back at me is Larry...the sweet man I married over 5 years ago. He makes everything all right and he's my focus. He respects his Mother and always has...he's not afraid to let her call him terms of endearment without fear of his testicles falling off. He would do anything for her and he never, ever speaks to her disrespectfully...never curses around her and it is Larry who I wish I'd had my children with. If there's one thing I would take back it is who my sons' father is. Ahhhh, but as Larry says, they'll regret it one day...probably when it's too late, but they'll reget it. Your son will too...probably, as with mine, when it's too late.
Ahhh, geeze, I just want to crawl into my computer monitor and out of yours, so I can reach out and give you ALL a gigantic hug!!!!
Any of you want to adopt me? I don't get along with my mom! We don't fight, but she has no filter when she speaks and often says rude and thoughtless things to me, my friends and my family. I don't enjoy spending time with her, but feel an obligation.
I know you would have had to be about 5 years old when you had me, but we can pretend!! Mother me all you want!!
Dee, your post made me choke up. I could so identify with it, and also the fact that I believe my son's father wasn't strict enough. I remember how fresh my kids could be to me. I would reprimand them, and my husband would just sit and watch silently. It was a huge issue between us during our marriage. His excuse was he didn't want the kids to feel ganged up on. Well...now he sees the result; at least with one. Did you see the link I posted in my last post? I found it interesting reading. I decided to delete some of the personal stuff that I wrote. I have to be careful, becasue of the divorce proceedings and the child custody case.
Sweet Dolphin...I would adopt you in a flash. So my daughter is a doctor? I'm sooo very proud of you, you sweet thing, you. Don't forget to take some magnesium...it's healthy for you in this heat. Oops...here I am giving my daughter-doctor advice. tsk tsk...mama will keepa her moutha shut now. nighty night.Oh, may I braid your hair?
This year when visiting a friend another woman related her experience with her son...and she could have been mirroring the experience you ladies tell of.Then my friend said her son forgot her birthday..so she asked if he ever forgot to go to the dentist..he had said no...his teeth teeth were important..she then asked him to write in his diary when her birthday was..calmly and no further debate...He got the message.
That day I heard of many hurts..and sat quietly..but in respect to my son and his Father I said to both the women that I was sorry they were hurting but both my grown children did show kindness and respect and that it would be wrong if I sat silent.And that I was grateful.I do this here also..not to be anything other than honest.
We as women deserve to be treated with basic good manners..its essential for our wellbeing.
DD...yes yes yes I will adopt you...Edelweiss and I can share custody! You're so sweet. Edelweiss...I know your situation and not having the support of your husband, I think, makes a difference...I watch how kids are talking to their parents at 4-5-6-10-15 years of age and the parents don't bat an eyelash...they need to wake up...part of being a good parents is loving your children, yes, but it also means setting a limit and meaning it...some kids think because they're grown they no longer have to respect those limits...give me a break. MA...at least she didn't get an argument of justification from her son for his lack of sensitivity. I'm glad your children treat you with respect and your last sentence speaks volumns. EW...I did see the link you posted...very interesting, thank you. Today is a new day...I am alive, my husband is safe and sound at home sleeping peacefully and all is right with the world. I'm grateful for the love that surrounds me here and now and that includes all of my BWS friends, too. You're always here with such support and wonderful advice. Thanks for being here.
Dee, I want you and everyone to understand that now I am in another phase of my life and instead of laying around mooping and being sad, I have moved on. No anger but NO feelings either. I haven't seen my younger son for some 16 years and have managed just fine. If my eldest wants to be a jackass then he can hit the road as well. I have done fine on my own all these years and now I am even better prepared to accept being alone except for my true friends, and that is some of you ladies. Sassy and I will do just fine...
Humm, not trying to encourage your decision to come and live with me Dancing Dolphin, but I will brush your hair, cook you marvelous meals for you and clean your room...
Actually I'd love to adopt you, Edelweiss and Dee and we could be the new Golden Girls...plus Queen JJ, have to have a Fairy Godmother on call...
This is on your son, Chatty...and he is the one who has to look in the mirror and live with his decisions concerning you. My view is if he can live without you, so can you live without him. Not what you wanted as his Mother, but you can't make someone want to be in your life who doesn't want to be there. They can blame you, be mad at you, say you're F'd up, resent you for not thinking their poop doesn't stink (or their girlfriends), but in the end it's what they have to live with. I did the best I could under the circumstances. I was the best Mother I could be. And like you, Chatty, I earned that respect because I'm 'mom'. If they don't want to see that then they are the one's who will eventually, down the road, get what they give through their own children. What goes around comes around. I miss the boys I remember who showed me respect. I miss the boys I remember who allowed me to be a mom.
It is best to let go of the idea that one's children, makes one happy. This is why I chose not to become a parent. I laud every parent and their effort to raise children for at least 20 yrs. I couldn't give like this and then be sabotaged.
Maybe I'm selfish but as the eldest kid, I witnessed too much the toll of childrearing on my parents.
i remember once in my early 20's, in the heat of an argument with mother and crying, I yelled at her: why could she be the mother....that was like a friend/etc.?
My mother did not disguise her anger...and she also suddenly broke down and cried. My father gently intervened and sided with her. He did the right thing. He asked that I not be so bull-headed and to be more thoughtful. At that moment in my life, i understood I was not giving my mother the right to be "herself" and for acknowledging her hard work.
Parents ahve to be united together, to speak out firmly if they feel they are significantly misunderstood by adult children (as long as the parents aren't endangering their own personal safety or finances).
As for missing birthdays, etc. Every family is different. In our family, it's good enough to get acknowledgement even 1-2 weesk, months after the birthday. In our family, people don't get overly bent of shape compared to bigger stuff (ie. appreciation in general) Partially because my parents never made much of a deal of our birthdays as kids until we left home. I don't remember a birthday cake for each of us each year. maybe a nicer supper, some candy. Nothing sticks in my memory.
What makes it more unusual to folks here, is that I'm not even clear the exact days of parents' birthdays. They really downplay this. But they do take mother's day and father's day abit more seriously than b-days.
Chatty I'm glad to hear you're in a place where you are able to live with what's happened...you're a strong, strong woman and I have learned so much from you. Hum, DD, EW, JJ, Chatty...you're ALL adopted in my heart...Slumber party, hot chocolate, pop corn, jumping up and down on the bed, telling ghost stories in the dark with flashlights...and yes sharing a hair brush amongst we girls. Orchid...you are, to me, like the wise Owl that sits in the tree quietly looking down and observing. When you speak I hang on your words...you are calming, wise, and such a good person. I'm glad you had a Father who stood by your Mother...I think when that happens, a fair united front, children are taught so much more than showing respect. It shows a partnership and responsibility to teach your children how to show and give respect to the most important man and woman in their life.
I stayed overnight with my parents for the lst time...in their house ..in 15 yrs. just a few wks. ago. Methinks my parents had forgotten what it was like to have one of their children, even if adult, stay over. (Every one of my siblings else has their own place in same city.) It was a major event, rearranging stuff just to accommodate me.
It was abit sad to me since my father has prostate cancer but still mobile, etc. But we didn't dwell on it. Somehow I had a powerful feeling they wanted to believe it was like it used be for them....normal, everyday, etc...like it was over 30-25 yrs. ago, when their children were just about ready to fly the coop. That golden phase in life for some families. When things are just about to change forever.
Dee, I have a mother who swears (in Chinese) and makes fishwife like jokes privately, has lousy bad temper, etc. But she has given selflessly alot to us. She is NOT the stereotyped old mother dainty and all polite all the time. Sometimes I wish she could be the sweet-tempered old soul. But she is not. She is herself.
The visit went quite well this time, better than I expected...again a foreboding sense, this might be the last of "normal times" before someone's health deterioriates.
think when that happens, a fair united front, children are taught so much more than showing respect. It shows a partnership and responsibility to teach your children how to show and give respect to the most important man and woman in their life.
Absolutly..the partnership of parenting.when possible. It teaches more than the issue at hand..it teaches gender roles..expectations..values..
but as well as being united when there is conflict there has to be positive feedback when things are going well.
We always celebrate birthdays.have a cake for every family member..special cakes for decades ..Just our tradition.
Orchid...I'm certain you staying with your family made them feel so good. I'm sorry to hear about your dad's prostrate condition. It must be hard for your family. It sounds like you know who your mom is and have accepted her for that. Despite her colorful character to hear you ackowledge her sacrafice shows you understand the mom in her. Her accommodating things for your stay was sweet and such a mom thing to do. Give your mom and dad a hug for me and for you, dear lady, an extra big one.
MA...absolutely true...positive feedback is so vital, too. It's so important for a child's sense of self and wellbeing. When there is conflict between parents and it's shown in front of the child, the child can learn to manipulate and alienate the parents.
MA, I too want to say how much I appreciate your feelings, and am happy for you that your children treat you with love and respect. That’s how I always treated my parents, and that’s why my situation is so much harder to understand.
I just had to share something. Today my computer guy came over. While he was here, his mother called him twice. Honestly it would make any mother’s heart melt to hear how this 38 year old man spoke to his Mom; - So much love and tender humor. I sat there, and thought; what does his mom have that I don’t have?
Well, I asked him. I told him how I listened with envy to his converstations with his mother. And I told him I wished I had such a relationship with my son.
He looked at me silently for a moment, and then said, “Just let him be what he is, and just accept him with all his faults.”
“I doooo!” I whined, and told him that my son has a lot of stress in his life, and can’t seem to separate me from the others. His attitude is not from anything I have done to him.
Then my computer guy, took me in his arms, and comforted me. Oh boy,…I needed that. And then he said, when my son calls again, which he will some day, because he will need us for something, I should hold back on any confrontations. I should show him that I’m sad, though. For example, my son may call, and act like nothing has ever happened. Instead of me asking why hasn’t he called sooner, or what the heck is wrong, I should just sound sad, and not say much. By doing this, my computer, genius, guy said, I am allowing my son to develop his own guilt trip. And what happens if someone is one a guilt trip? They try to make good. They try harder.
Wow,…I thought that was brilliant. He’s so right. As long as I question my son, as long as I even reprimand him, he is busy defending himself,…and in no way has any room for a guilt trip.
Thought I would pass this word from my genius, computer, groovy guy on…and hope it helps, like it has helped me.
I embrace you all; - daughters, mothers, happy or sad,… whatever. It’s a beautiful day.
EW...I hope it works for you...I honestly do...I don't think it's that simple for you or me but I will pray that it will work. When I've tried to show my sad feelings I got 'guilt trips don't work on me'. Lovely thing to say to your mom. I think I will be there with Chatty and my friend Nancy. Hugging you back daughters, mothers, sisters...it is a beauitful day.
As the daughter who is constantly being "guilt-tripped", I really don't know if that's the best idea. It might build guilt, but do you really want your son to feel guilty or obligated to contact you?
I would want my kids to contact me because they want to, not because they should. I'm finding as they live on their own, that they don't call as often or stop by as often as I'd like, but I try to remember that they have their own lives, their own friends, their own issues that I know nothing about.
I do show respect to my mom, out of the need to keep things going smoother for her. She's all alone and complains all the time, but won't do anything about it. It's hard to listen to. When I was younger, she harped about my boyfriends and made negative comments about things I wore or what I did. Those types of comments built anger and resentment and worked a hole into any relationship we might have had.
When my parents found out I was having sex with my husband-to-be, they gave me an ultimatum. Leave him or leave them. I left them and they didn't expect that. We didn't speak for a year, which allowed me to build an even stronger bond with my partner, and you know, they started inviting me to family events but excluded him. They never accepted him or treated him well until we got married 7 years later. By then, the void was there and it's never been stitched back up.
In contrast, my hubby's parents did not like or approve of our choice, but they stayed in touch, invited us both to gatherings and making us feel comfortable. Because of that, I became closer to my mother-in-law than to my own mother.
You aren't going to change your child. You just need to set a good, open, welcoming example to him and his friends. Unless his friends/partners are doing something illegal, try to see past their faults. Not everyone was raised with the good manners your kids were. They may need to spend time with you to see how things should be done. Watching you, not hearing you tell it.
I am trying to learn to butt out of my kids lives (although it's not working well with their dog, as I posted earlier) and just be here for them if they need me. They need to find their own way, yet know that I am always here for them if they have questions or problems or need help.
I am only speaking from my experience. I was not a fly on the wall when you had conversations with your kids and their friends or partners. Only you know how you might have said something, or how it could have been said gentler, or maybe not at all.
And if you said what you felt you needed to, and they way it needed to be said, then your son has the issue, not you. And as others on here have said, we have to learn to make our own happiness and not rely on others for it.
I know, way easier said that done, especially when it comes to our children.
I have personaqlly tried that fror many years now Edelweiss and it hasn't worked. My son thinks when I'm quiet, and then says "mom I'm sorry and will visit more often or at least call once a week just to hear your laugh." But he never does. He talks a good game however.
I think time is our enemy, his and mine. We get busy with life and time passes quickly. I for one still can't believe I am the age I am. When did I get this age anyway? Unfortunately when we aren't thinking of time we lose it, and soon it's too late because someone is "gone forever," and no words or guilt will bring them back, or the precious time we could have spent with them, not ever. I have given up as I said earlier and will do whatever I have to do to live the rest of my life where and how it makes me happy before its too late. I have given my time to my family trying to make them happy and then when it comes to me, oh well!!!
Two nights ago, our granddaughter called and invited us to come to Daddy’s house to barbeque. This was at 8:00 pm, and it’s an hours drive to their place. I asked to speak to “A’s” daddy. This is how the conversation went: “Do you really want us to come this late?” His reply: “"A" wants it.” “And you? Do you want us to come?” “I can deal with it.” (Mind you, we had eaten, and were ready to call it a day.) I repeated, “You can deal with it?” (in a sad tone, not whining) Then I said, “sorry but we have already eaten and it’s too late to drive out. By the time we get there “A” will be ready for bed.” ( By the way,… I think this is the first time I ever said no to him.) I then heard him say to his daughter, “Your grandparents aren’t coming,” and he hung up.
I understand DD that there are usually two sides to a story. And the sad thing about having an estranged child is that most people ask; what have the parents done to cause this. But in my case, Dee’s and Chatty’s there are no valid reasons to be treated as such. I can say with a clear conscience that my husband nor I have done anything to provoke or anger our son. Just the opposite; we have spoiled him and have helped him out of countless situations.
In your case, with your Mom, there seems to be a lot of hard feelings that go way back when. My parents were terribly strict too, But they were brought up that way, and knew no other way of disciplining. I truly believe most parents do the best they can. Expectations usually run too high on both sides, and I am, by far, no exception. ( … so when will you send me the locks to braid?)
Dee and Chatty, if this guilt trip method doesn’t bring our son back, I will let go. I’m just at the beginning stage here, and I guess it’s normal to try everything.
Orchid, I bet your parents were delighted that you stayed at their house. Just being there and showing you care, is the biggest present you can give your parents.
I understand. I think even though I have hard feelings for my mom, I am still civil to her. I would not do what your son did, and probably blame it on grandma and A will be dissappointed but of course it won't be his fault.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you all. I could experience it myself with my kids sooner or later.
EW, I think I'll have to visit you, or you me, to do the braiding bit. Would you like your hair brushed in return?
Edelweiss...from knowing you for years now I know what kind of person/Mother/Oma you are and there's no way you've asked for any of this. In the terms of someone I went and spoke to when all hell broke loose for me...'one day maybe they'll grow up.' What's weird is I'm not a guilt-trip kind of person...my sons think I am but perhaps we see through eyes of what we are. Maybe people in their lives used it so much on them that they can't see anything else any other way. All I know is some of the things I was accused of doing was news to me...I didn't like having words and thoughts put out that were not there. Edelweis...it is sinful what your son is doing and it's sinful that he's using his daughter and hurting her to try and get to you. How dare he. Even if you had done something to make him upset, for him to use his daughter like this is so out there that I just can't put it into words. I wish your husband would go over to him and have a man to child talk with your son...I think it's time your hubby told your son to back off and either treat you right or kiss your ass. I know that's blunt, but this has me steaming!
Hubby has spoken to him. Our son doesn't respect us. No matter who talks to him, he can't get off his high horse, and ever see that he's the one with the problem.
We can live with it at this time. I find myself going through some emotional rollercoaster rides,...but today I'm fine. We are going sailing, and I will let the breeze blow away all worries and woes.
Wish I could take you all with me. Love and hugs hugs hugs to all of you! Edelweiss
Dee, and everyone else having similar issues, I hope you know that my post talking about "watching what you say" etc was not intended for you.
It was only what I try to do with my kids, based on my experiences with my mother. As I mentioned before, she has no filter and says whatever she wants, from mentioning my weight over and over, to dissing my children because they aren't already in careers (ages 19 and 23, they have time!), to complaining about everything all the time and never doing anything to fix it.
She has very few friends because of her behavior, but always complains that she's lonely. No one wants to spend time with her!
I also wanted to mention that we all have different tolerance levels for what behavior is acceptable from our children, and that's okay. We were all raised with some degree of expectations, religious or other moral values, etc.
For me, if my child told me he was gay I would be upset and it would be awkward, but I would not dis-own him or otherwise exclude him from my life. However, if he murdered someone, molested children, or abused his wife, that would be a different story. I imagine there are mothers out there who are blind to everything, with no limitations on what their children can do and they'll still welcome and love them with open arms.
Oh, no DD...noworries...I knew what you meant and did not take it the wrong way...You're a sweet lady and I understood dearest. We're all concerned when one of our sisters is hurting by a family member's lack of sensitivity. And you're right we all have different degrees of experience in our own families. I'm sorry you had to go through what you did/do with your mom. It seems to me that our kid's generation has developed a great talent for striking and walking away leaving us standing there saying...what the ???
Okay EW,...made me cry dad gum you!!! I know this won't ever happen for me...some things you just know and there are other equations in the mix, other people who helped destroy my relationship with my sons...I'm sitting on the same fence as Chatty and EW...sad, but true. But, I love the song and the idea of it happening.
This is a serious discussion and I am aware how much hurt you all feel. I send sincere good wishes..
I would like to say that people do regress when life changes such as divorce...new relationships...unemployment..and then do move into a more mature state in time.For a man to loose a marriage must be a grief experience..all the hopes going.Finding himself older..wiser perhaps but somewhat soured..he may be hitting at the one person he trusts and loves..You.
Meantime EW the pleasure of sailing and doing the small things in life to make yourself happy create a bubble of good ether around you..Perhaps your little lady "A" will be the bridge to happy things happening..children speak their truth and some of her words may be the arrows that pierce her Dadda'a heart for the better.
I’m so very sorry, Dee. I didn’t want to make you cry. I was hoping this film clip will say, never give up. Never lose hope. And my dear friend, Dee; - Never say never. Like MA said, things in our sons lives will change as well. And they will develop and mature and I believe will finally “awaken” and come back.
Dear MountainAsh, you have appeared several times in low periods of my life, as a true pillar of strength and hope. I find you so amazing. And you always say just the right thing. Thank you so much. I do believe our son will return to us, but still the journey till then is painful, and we parents have to learn to refocus.
We will visit “A” this week at her mother’s place. So that bridge is thankfully kept alive through my DIL.
I too had faith my younger son would come around and realize how much he is loved and return to me. Sixteen years have gone by and nothing has changed. Now it seems I may be losing my eldest son as well. Apparently his divorce included me too. I hope it works out better Dee and Edelweiss for the two of you. I haven't given up exactly, just put it behind me and am going on ALONE as well as can be expected. I love life and will not have what amount I have left stolen from me by the sorrow caused by ungrateful kids and their bad behavior. I plan to go out laughing!!!
EW...I wasn't crying for me...I was crying for the happiness show in the video clip...shoot, I've been through this 3 times now with my kids...if it had been the first time I might be acting differently but I guess I'm numb to it all now and like Chatty says it perfectly: "I haven't given up exactly....will not have what amount I have left stolen from me by the sorrow caused by ungrateful kids and their bad behavior. I plan to go out laughing!!! But, I thank you for the video...I posted it to my FB for others to see. Mountain...you have such an optimistic outlook...I wish we could sit and have tea and talk...
I like many others in Christian society heard about Adam and Eve..not for one moment do I believe being Christian is the one path...I am but a small speck in the Big Picture..born in Scotland my identity is shaped by the place people and history. Back to Adam and Eve. I worked out little M.A. if that was so then we all were "family" if I hit another..it would be striking my clan..I loved those people around me and to strike out was alien.children at school may have pushed me at times..but know what ? if you dont expect to be pushed folks dont do so very often.(Law of attraction)long before that book my folks lived the talk..walked the walk. we dont speak out about our beliefs...we live them. Scottish people are reserved about serious matters..God is serious matter. Next big thought for M.A. Every one was a baby once...if we see the child in the man...then life is simpler.. Of course I have met people who are very different....Indeed I have experienced bullies of the narcisic veriety because people like that are puzzled by my presence.and through those people I have been tested..I remain as I am. However I am strong and brave..and daily look for the child in the man (and woman) Networking is benificial and even in virtual society the behaviour mirrors mainstream society..I note those who are kind and those who are mystified by the woman who can hold a bee..appear passive but can weather storms...and see the new babe..the wee boy..and wait for the prodigal man..
Drugs alter the mind so Chatty your boy is changed but inside the boy is there..live happy.. the story is not finished
You could be right Mountain Ash. One never knows from one day to the next but things don't look good from here on either circumstance. I am still smiling though and trying to teach my Sassy to swim in a kiddy pool.
My son is starting to mature, after raising 3 daughters. He is realizing mom tried to guide him in the right direction. When his father and my marriage broke up, junior was 13 years old; and nobody won in that situation. His dad and my and junior's relationships are only now starting to level off. Junior knows I love him. Sometimes it takes a lot of living, to get thoughts lined up with reality. "The Maker" will straighten everybody out someday! IMO!
Jabber, I’m glad to read about how your son is maturing now. How old is he?
I’m beginning to get regular dreams about moving away, and even opening a coffee shop! Hahaha…I think this is a sign that I’m yearning for a new life. Last night I dreamt that the coffee shop was situated right on the ocean front. Huge waves started to roll in, increasing in size. I ran upstairs, (apparently we lived over the shop) and got some blankets from our beds. I hung them over the terrace railing to stop the waves. I know,…my brain goes out to lunch, even in my dreams. Well, I didn’t wake up then either. The wave came, and forced me to belly land and glide over the terrace into the restaurant between the three tables we had. I woke up from the blue collared men, sitting at the tables laughing their heads off.
Oh man,…hope there aren’t any physiatrists among you….I don’t want to know if I’ve gone off my rocker.
T.A. Training advises that we keep a dream diary..I believe dreams are personal to the dreamer...and whatever Ocean...blankets mean to you will differ to what ocean..blankets mean to me .. Dream are ahead of us...and if you can train yourself to finsh the dream in a soft and gentle way between sleeping and being awake you can nurse yourself into a calm place.. I have no worries for you..you are the Captain of your ship...
The coffee shop = a want/need/desire to start over and live your "secret" dream Blankets = like trying to stick your finger in a dike to stop the floods...you need to THINK BIG...not small. The waves = obstacles that ARE in your path NOW and keep you from living your dream (you see them this way) The laughing men = your fear of naysayers who said, "You can't do it" and of being laughed at, the ultimate hurt.
Just another "take" on it all. Now...I believe YOU can do anything you set your mind to. You are soooo dynamic!
I love analyzing dreams, and JJ, you said pretty close to what I would say. The only other thing I would mention is that your glide on the waves downstairs was safe and you WILL survive, even if others don't agree with what you're doing.
Another thing interesting: there were exactly 3 tables. Who are the 3 "tables" in your life that will try to block your path or will not believe you can do it?
Well these were interesting interpretations. I never tried to analyse dreams. But it's fun reading about the process. A coffee shop by the ocean, sounds like a fantastic dream, there, Edelweiss. My son is old enough to be maturing; remember, I said his girls are grown. If I tell you how old he is, you'll know how old I am and that's too scary to think about. But let me say this, my grandfather never did grow up and he died at age 91.
My son, age 32, who lives a few minutes from my husband and I, remembers my birthday and stops by for a short visit on special holidays. He and his wife even drop by 2-3 other times during the year. Mostly he spends time with her family (also located a few minutes away,) maybe because they are much larger in number, and her parents treat them to destination weekends.
I know my son loves me because he has told me that from time to time, but I sure would like to see them practice love as an action word by spending more time with us while we are still alive. When they DO come and visit, we always seem to have a grand time, and whenever we go to restaurants for a special occasion, we mostly pick up the tab.
I raised him as a loving giving child, and he is all that, plus a very hard-working individual. When his father (whom he adored) walked out on us when my son was a teen, he changed a bit. He and I grieved separately about the loss of our family's wholeness. I tried talking to him about the loss, but he kept his feelings private. I asked him if he blamed me for what happened, and he said no.
Now in his 30s, I try and accept that he is too busy working to be a close part of my life, but deep inside I hurt that we do not see each other often.
My husband of almost 13 years (whom my son really likes) says that grown children, especially boys, do not cling to their moms, and that what my son is doing is pretty normal in the overall scheme of things. Maybe he is right. But we live so close and those two are always at her moms, working, or socializing with friends.
Tell me: Am I expecting too much in wanting to see them for an hour about once very 2 weeks or so? (They don't answer their phone much but prefer to text, which I am not good at. Plus, I think that is so impersonal)
Jabber, woops, I wasn’t sure if you meant your two daughters or your son’s two daughters. Whatever your age, jabber,..you are a yung’n to me, and probably to all the rest of us.
Josie, you know what’s odd…all of us here have SONS that are …what’s the word: distant? Maybe your husband is right. Maybe it’s a male thing? I think it’s harder to accept those visits that are few and far in between, when the adult children live so close by. I once mentioned to my oldest son, who lives only 10 minutes from us, that we want to sell our house and move. He was shocked, and asked why. I told him we would like to live in a larger city. We feel like we are missing out on life in the country. He said, "well we are here". I just gave him a long look. Ever since then, he comes with his family every week for almost a whole day. You might just try that “trick” on your son.
JJ, your analysis made a lot of sense to me. And yes, I am thinking big. Big time changes! It’s Hubby, dear, who rather thinks small…or no changes. So I do have obstacles, but nothing I can’t overcome. Thanks so much, JJ, you are really amazing. I hope you know that. DD, interesting question. I guess the 3 tables represent my mother, Hubby, and my sons. Moving means moving away from them. Hubby isn't too enthused about moving,and it would mean I have to move my mother to my new area. Not sure if that is good for her.And I would miss my grandchildren. It's not an easy decision.
“A” called today, and asked if her Daddy may bring her over on Saturday. Weeeeell…chatty, may I borrow your phrase? ….“butter my but and call me a bun.” ( Haha just love that). Our other son is moving into their new house over the weekend, so his brother is coming to help him. Maybe we’ll just do a barbeque in the evening for the movers. Maybe we will grill our son. We’ll add a bit of mayonnaise and mellow spices,…to soften his nature.
If you don’t ever hear from me again,…you know it is my son who wants to grill me, for whatever reason, only the stars know for sure.
Tell me: Am I expecting too much in wanting to see them for an hour about once very 2 weeks or so? (They don't answer their phone much but prefer to text, which I am not good at. Plus, I think that is so impersonal)
I guess, even if they live close, that still might be too often for him. Your son sounds as if he wants the time with you and hubby well-spent. Not just talk about ordinary stuff, or trivial stuff...to him. I know, it's selfish of him.
In reading all about people's experiences with their adult sons, I reflect back my dearie's relationship with his mother who is no longer alive. When his mother lived in same city as we did and was still mobile, healthy, he visited her once per week or less. Or she phoned him..usually something minor for him to do.
As she became more frail..he biked over and visit her for an hr. or less about 1-3 times per wk. In nursing home, as she became less aware of surroundings and could barely recognize her own son: it dwindled down to once to wk. He found it very difficult to communicate with her since dementia set in.
I would consider this mother-son relationship probably ideal because it was relatively stress-free and mutually caring. She didn't lay down rules how to behave in her household..but there was no need. She personified quiet dignity and gentle temper. Sort of person that children and teenagers don't mind hanging out with.
I have said over and over and over to dearie that it is the imprint of his mother that has had the strongest, positive influence on his personality.
I am glad to have witnessed a very good mother-adult child relationship..'cause I can't say it is/will be like this with my mother. I know the rest of my siblings with their own families, etc., prefer contact with my parents only a few times or less on a monthly basis. They all live in the same city. My parents don't know how to "play" with their grandchildren since none of the grandchildren can speak/understand Chinese. And also because they never "played" with their own children. Instead it's easier for my parents to plunk grandchildren in front of TV or give them a meal at home. It's just reality.
So some of my siblings with children, rely on their in-laws to do some occasional child care or there's more contact.
Oh lol lol....but you still get what I mean, I guess. Yours is better, it's more discreet.
Orchid your partner is a good son. There are always exceptions. At my mother's senior home, I have noticed that sons visit, but compared to daughters, I'd say it's a ration of 20%. Orchid, have you ever tried to learn Chinese?
Oh gosh I want to jump in on this conversation but I have to leave for awhile...will be back in a couple of days I hope and can't wait to talk about all these comments...Love Ya'll!!!
The daughters' I talk about are my son's daughters. I have 1 child, 'tis all. He lives in S.C. and I see him now and again. He phones every once in a while. But mostly he's driving a semi up and down the East Coast. My granddaughters' write me on Facebook or in emails.
WB is a good son; his mom lives around 3 miles north of us and he takes care of her home. She lives alone but he mows the grass, plows the drive, washes windows and puts the screens and storms up and down. He plants her flowers and cuts the hedge. He's a good son.
Right after I wrote what I wrote, I saw my son and his wife yesterday. We all had (as usual) the best time talking about our personal lives and general chit chat. (We were celebrating his wife's birthday)
I hinted that maybe one night soon, we can get together for pizza and a movie at our house. They seemed amenable. And I have a tentative date to meet with my DIL for lunch later this week.
Maybe it's true that sons are joined to their wife's family at the hip, no matter what. All I know is...I am so glad I got to see him and hug him yesterday.
Edelweiss: Maybe I should hint about us moving at some point, just to see the look on his face. lol
A son is a son 'til he takes a wife, A daughter's a daughter the rest of her life.
I have a son and a daughter and the above certainly seems to be true here. He seems to clearly prefer her family to ours while she and I are very close and I never have felt she is being pulled away from us.
I've heard that saying, too, Greene. It's interesting that we are supposed to be a patriarchal society, yet the son being closer to the wife's family is more an indication of a matriarchal society.
Come to think of it, Larry doesn't visit his mom very much at all...and she lives about 10 minutes away. She visits us more than we visit her. Larry's sister, who lives on the same street as their mom, visits her a lot. Maybe it's just a gender thing afterall. I don't know.
My son got the weekends mixed up. It's this coming Saturday that he is helping his brother move. I'm curious how he will greet us when he drops our granddaughter off at our house. Obviously he has no guilt feelings. I don't think he has any feelings. Oh well. Yonah, I have to admit; I looked up matriarchal societies. Wikipedia says: "...the leading role is taken by the women and especially by the mothers of a community." There is alot more..very interesitng reading! And patriarchal societies a social system in which the father or eldest male is head of the household, having authority over women and children. Thanks Yonuh. I learned something new today.
Sorry…but my sons often get my goat too. You aren’t alone here. 
