Hussein executed......

The 9/11 commission found that there were no WMD and Saddam Hussein had no relationship to 9/11. I myself heard George W. Bush say that he wanted to go after Saddam because he tried to kill his father. I have not heard that US soldiers found evidence of AlQueda cells in Iraq so I won't comment on that statement. It appears that Saddam was found guilty of a crime, sentenced to death and executed. I just ponder the whole of the situation in light of so much questionable decision making that has cost the lives of thousands of people and mangled the bodies of so many more. I keep thinking about the movie "Wag the Dog" and wonder how the situation in Iraq and the premise of the movie feels related to me. Killing people to show that killing people is wrong is a contradictory concept that makes no sense to me. I pray that more people don't have to die for another's pursuit of power and greed.

I have to pose this question again. When was the last time an executed rapist and murderer went out and murdered an innocent person? IMO, I think it is more important for the innocent victim to not become victims, rather than having a scumbag live with the high probably that person will commit the crime again. I would think twice of doing a crime if I knew this would be my punishment. Getting together and singing kumbaya is not going to solve the crime situation and it definitely will not solve terrorism. Again this is my opinion.

I know what the 9/11 commission found. I forgot to mention this and this is very important at least one would think it would be. But I live in a heavy military populated area. I know some troops that have been there. I have listened to interviews with troops that are or have been over there. I will take the word of someone that is there and has seen more than what those in Washinton supposedly found. So I have heard straight from the mouth of soldiers as to what is actually found and what is going on. BTW, while my dad was undergoing chemotherapy at Walter Reed, I saw some soldiers there that have lost a limb or two. It is so sad to see, but oddly enough some of them believe so much in what we are doing, they want to go back! Yeah, I'll take their word anyday rather than someone like say, Rosie O(Overrated)Donnel. I even heard in one interview from a soldier that he gets really hurt when he hears the rhetoric reported on the news. Like, Bush lied to us, etc... But, I guess the hatred for Bush far outweighs all other things for some people. It used to be in the old days the country united during war time no matter what party they were for. They understood back then that kumbaya wasn't going to cut it.

As for the statement that our President made about going after saddam because he tried to kill his father. I don't doubt that you heard this. I would like to hear the entire radio address in it's full context.

Again, not trying to change minds. Just trying to give the other side of the story which is not told alot. Certainly not by the media with their own agenda.

Peace out,
Cathi

Wittleman, this is a HOT topic at this forum. I've burnt my tongue here several times. Just want you to know you are not alone in your opinion.

Cathy, I could ask you a similar question. When was the last time an innocent person was put on the electric chair? And at the same time, I do agree with you , in that I don't support murderers to be released from prison, unless they have committed the crime in self defense.

Just want to remind you that America was torn as well during the Vietnam War. And there were soldiers then, who lost limbs but still said they would go back to fight. And what good did it do them? What good did it do America?

Kathy, Chatty I truly respect your opinions, and certainly don't want to offend anyone personally. But just as you have your opinions I feel obligated to stand up for mine.

Here are a few examples from thousands of private videos that soldiers taped. Maybe after seeing these you can understand why there is an opposition.

War in Iraq

A personal account

Thirsty Children

I'd send more, but these accounts are enough to break my heart.

This sort of thing is always a moral dilemma for me. I believe in the sanctity of life, from one end of the spectrum to the other (i.e., conception to death). So if I honestly believe that all life is sacred, then I cannot condone capital punishment. Yet, what alternatives do we have to deal with those who have no respect for life and spend their entire lives and energies erasing lives of innocent people? As a global society, we need to come up with better solutions. It makes me yearn for the day when we can send them to penal planets, like they do in Star Trek. But even then we will have to deal with the inevitable escapes and further abuses. So it continues to be a moral dilemma.

What makes it moreso for me is my profound belief that God has created and loves each human person. I also believe that from the perspective of eternity, there is no such thing as being "beyond redemption". While I can and do make judgements on another person's actions when they impact on others and myself, I don't think I have everything I would need to make judgements on a person's heart or redemptive value. I think I'd prefer to leave that up to God. Which then makes me wonder how I can pick and choose who God should love...it would enrage me if I was told who I could love and who I must hate according to outward appearances and outward behaviours. I would want to delve into the heart of a person and sit there for awhile before I made my own decision on whether or not there was any redeeming value left in this person.

I'd like to believe that what we do here on earth is not the totality of who we are in the grand scheme of eternal life. I've made lots of mistakes too, not on the same level as Hussein or Hitler, but there are some out there who could declare me to be "beyond redemption" too. How tragic is that? I've been capable of change. Maybe one's death doesn't change the capacity to change. Maybe God's got other plans for those who didn't learn the sanctity of life while on earth.

It's still a moral dilemma. One that's hard for Christians especially to grapple with, because we're human, and our human-ness wants to see someone like Hussein pay for his inhumanity and blatant disregard for the sanctity of life. And yet our Christian faith does exhort us to love and forgive one another.

This morning, I was awakened with the burning call to pray for Saddam Hussein. That certainly wasn't from within my own mercy for him...the man's actions repulse me even now. Yet, there was no doubt that I was being asked to pray for him, just as I'm often awakened in the middle of the night to pray for any one of you or my family, or sometimes people I don't even know. I don't know the "why" of that call, I just know by now to "just do it" and leave it up to God to do what He wants with my prayer.

God has placed a deep burden of praying for this man on my heart. Why? I have no idea. But it gives me yet one more glimpse of the reality of God's mercy...why would He ask me to pray for someone if He has already condemned him?

It definitely leaves the door open to God's mercy and the very unpopular and perhaps undigestable notion that nobody is beyond God's redemption...

I already know that this aint gonna be to populare an oppinion after reading the remainding posts but heer gose anyway.........There gotta be somethng wrong with people murderring someone for their crimes whoever that someone is an whatever they have dun. I say it again murdering someone.....couse to all acounts hussain was murdered by god fearing people who object to murder!!!!!!!!. Dose this makes sence to anyone who isn't filled with hate and fear and revenge, Is this the lesson and the legacy that you want to leave the future generasions........How is it spiritule god loving people get filled with blood lust regarding certine criumes......rape and murder etc never acceptable.........major control by dictators is never acceptable........There are processes ie incaration, for life means they can't rape or murder again. Inteligent solusions are necassary as to what be done with individuels and i put stress on thought processes that are not similare to the criminals, ones that are humane but yet fitting to the crime........

That includes the USA and the UK becouse both countries have had their turn at dictatorship in both our histories and potencilly are still trying. Do you think our countries are beyond such thing's and if so then were is your proof that our countries are squeeky clean in any of it'spolitical deallings, or rights to start war on any other country.....I am not Irish but do you even know the mass slaughter, and torture that the UK and USA visited on ireland, not too far back in history. Did you think that it's only uncivilised dictator countries that behave like this or need taken in hand like this.......

In the name of god thousand, millions, or even billions were tourtured and killed.......not the Musliums but the christions, during the inquisition,(mostly women, 9 million) yet what a populer religion it is today and look at it's history. Now look beyond the history or rhetoric we are force feed.........The muslims doing what their doing in the name of their god aint that diffrent from the ferver of christianity in those past times. How much of todays terrorist threat is really to do with religion when it's seperated from ecconomics, power or mass control. Or is it the weel turning and just another religion or country making it's bid for total dominance over all others

Saying that, two wrong never make a write.....Muslium or christianity or any other supposed holy war in the name of any god. Or any country having total countrol or stranglehold over the others countries. Do you think any country or religion should be trusted with this much power?.........

Singing Kumbaya as a punishment or as the only alternitive to this type of behaviour is a patronising and condiscending slant on those that question the correctness of the murderring of dictaters or any indivduel for any crime..... Supposed sanctifying of murder becouse a government or a court deems it necasary, get a grip.......murder is murder is murder.....it's just as wrong as the criminals and those that call for any individual to be treated in this way.

Death is not the only solusion for hidiouse crime's, it's a short sighted and ignorant solusion, sweep it under the carpet and preety it up with an acceptiable term for it and patriotism. Or ask the survivers of attrocities not all of them want similare revenge, some have the sence to act diffrently from their assailants, despite their anger..

I also know soldiers who now know that they were indoctrinated into an mindset in order to perfore the tasks they did or were asked to do, how else could they live with themselfs, do their jobs and resign to the life they have been left with after all they seen and dune and their injories

i am shaking with distress at what iv just read from good god loving indivduels that do a compleat schizoid u-turn regarding certine topics, ya take my breath away........

and that my tuppence worth.....

celtic_flame

I do not believe in the death penalty and was very disappointed when our states began to reinstitute the death sentence into our system. However, for most states, the sentence has been imposed only in very extreme situations. Does this make it right? Not for me, but perhaps a bit more palpable.

Saddam was a horrific man. I believe, in this instance, I can reconcile my feelings and see his hanging as just.

Ann

Alas, we have another "Hot" topic here at BWS.

I have read and respect all your opinions. Pretty strong on both sides I would say.


I am hoping that there won't be any name calling or ill reference to what anyone has expressed.(Yes, it happens on occassion)

Remember, we are entitled to what we believe and that is the bottom line

This won't be the first or last issue that we agree/disagree on, let's just keep the debate clean, respectful and informative.

Remember...encourage, connect, and support.

And don't pick on me for this post...I'm weak

chick

There is a BIG difference between "punishment" for your crimes against humanity and someone running around "murdering" people because he is a dictator, a bully, and because he can. MY God people, wake the hell up...If we had no laws and there was no punishment for ones crimes, this world would be even more savage than it already is. There is a place for everything. Some of the worlds 'bleeding hearts' need to walk past the cold damp holes in the ground where thousands, thats right, thousands of Saddams victims, men, women and children lay rotting and for no other reason than he was insane with power...If youy want to feel all warm and fuzzy, feel that way for his thousands of innocent victims. Hes dead and so be it, he earned his fate. Now the last thing, WE HERE IN BWS DO NOT CALL NAMES!!! Everyone is given a forum in which they can spout their own opinioin BUT we respect one another and do not get personal, CLEAR, good!! I for one think this subject has run its course and we need to move onto happier subjects, it is after all the NEW YEAR.

Freedom of speach for all is to be admired if it's held as a true principle.....However why are you chosing to contradict and readress a few people who don't agree with your logic?

for your informastion and just so we are clear that i was describing GENERALLY an observasion i unfounded and held within the board by a variety of people and not singling any one indivuel out. Since you chose to take my remark personally then i will provide a definasion dictonary of schizoid personality treats for you

Schizoid: a term describing a personality that suggests inner conflicts and exhibits outer contradictions.

Your inner state i would't comment on. Outwardly clamming a god loving christion "peace out" stance while baying for murder of hussam and the common jo thats commited a crme is a fundemental contridiction.....In this manner the quoted word fits

As you stated no one judges us but god yet you see fit to judge and support the murder of indivduels, who have commited criminal acts. Is that not acting as if you have the right's of a diety?

Congratulasions on a life lived without sin or need for god's judgement. I haven'tlived such a life an for one i am thankfull god is forgiven and mercifull.

In all off your posts you wholesale attack the muslums
let me quote a few of your remarkes:........It's just that I know muslim's, I grew up with them on the Island of Rhodes. The Turk's once occupied the Island and I grew up hearing some horrific stories from friends and relative's personal experiences with them. They are not peace loving people......(second post) These are fanatics and if it takes them 300 years to accomplish something for the glory of allah, they are okay with that. We are infidels to them, and they want to get rid of or convert all infidels. We are the infidels to them........(end quote)
How many of the woman on this sight might be muslum, or married to a muslum man........Moreover, not all muslium peoples have this view. The fanatics that you have quoted and then chose to reprisent as ALL MUSLEMS everywear is prediduced and a misreprisentasion of ALL muslum people.... Their are peace loving muslums. I for one hate to see any one persicuted for their god or religion or race. Secondly know the history of your religion and country, see it for what it is.(I used the examples of both our countries and religions). Don't hide from the reality of anything or anyaction....... Then still hold true to your faith from an informed choice, if thats your decision.

Many religious stances see their religion as the only path to god and all others should be converted or erradictaded again examples of the inquisquistion and the conntinioong missonary work, replacing existing religions and cultural ways. Their is nuthing new in this totallity of belife in a rightchess pathway or in one dominating the other, in the name of god (ever wondered how god might feel bout wholesale slughter and tourcher in his/her's name.

Lastly i never yet to say i dislike you or anyone else on this board for this topic or any other.

I do feel strongly about murder anyones and if i not mistaken this board a descusion board, for descusion. Not needing you to agree with me or vice versa i am sure, so no personal offence ment and nun taken on my part.

please read eagles post on this topic, it's full of the loving spirite of the universe....and reminds us that we just instriments throw the devine energy to act and work throw once our ego's get out the way....now thats humbeling

happy new year
celtic_flame

chatty ladie

no one said hussain was right for what he did or didn't deserve punishment. Or generally crimanals and certine crimes. I thought the debate was about what type of punishment is right for "us humans" to chose to do legally or not.......why if we don't agree with the death penalty for any reason are we bleadding hart's and don't agree with any laws.......is that not derogatory in the context that you have used it in....If i am mistaken then please explane. Why can't we feel for hussane and his victums why dose it have to be only one or the other?

As the such an emotive subject don't you think the members will decide when the descusion is over or not. That we are all adult and mature enough to have this debate without offence being taken as it's all just one persons oppinion after another oppinion, which is the meat of descussion. Nune of thats wrong, the pro's and the agenst death or murder penalty nune of it's wrong and all of it's entitled to space and airring isen't it.

If the name calling about the schizoid remark then cheek out the definision, (in the last post) it fit's in this context. If it's about something else well i am sure you'll yake your own steaps regarding it.

and happy new year to you

celtic_flame

I would love to live in a world where there was no need for a topic like this one, no one murdering anyone, thus no one else murdering the murders...I ASKED for an end to this unpleasant topic as a courtesy to the many that are made uncomfortable by it. I have been here a very long time now and have seen women come and go, and I know that these kinds of post are not in the spirit of this kind and gentle site. Nothing said here will change anything anyway so why upset ourselves?? Let politicians and rule makers worry about things like that. I tried to put an end to this topic in keeping with the spirit of BWS, where we think of the good of all, not just of ourselves wanting our own words to be heard above all others. I would hope this is the reason we are all here, to show our love, respect and comraderie for, and to one another and leave our politics outside the door. There are many other sites that relish this type of debateable topic, this isn't one of them. Please lets all just have respect for Dotsie and all the members that come here to enjoy the "peace and safety" this site was founded for...

Thanks Chatty. I left this site for a time a while back because of that. Recently, it's been very pleasant here. I don't come in here to debate politics. I come here to get away from the bad things in the world and enjoy the company and friendship of boomer women. I agree. There are plenty of places on the web for that. I much prefer the peace and commaradarie of this site.

Louisa

I'm aware that everyone is not going to agree with me on this. Some may think I'm weak for doing this but I am going to close this topic before it gets out of control. I don't like it when people feel offended at BWS and I can see that happening. Onward with other topics.