Unfinished mothering

OMG!!! I just got off the phone w/an old friend from way back.....about 35 years.Although we have been communicating for the past 3 or 4 years or so. She and I both do/could not have children and she is a widow of 2 years now.

She HIT me with: "Di you had unfinished mothering. Your Mom died at an unnatural point in life, but you were not finished needing her/being mothered. Hence, your 'neediness' happens". (DH has said how needy I am lately)

This friend also said that we continue to look for it but cannot find it in others. No way can that ever happen. So, I asked her how to remedy that. She says the best to do is accept it for what it is and move one.

Now gals........I'm 48 years old and I've just learned this about my life. I love 2000 miles from "home".......all my family is back there and I am here with a DH who only knows me 10 years. I cannot expect him to "fix" me since: 1. He did not know my past as I lived it and 2. He's not my mother

The analogy she gave was likened to a puppy who is removed from the mother immediately. It's so unnatural that the puppy will not be "ok".

This friend also mentioned that I reflect TOO much about my past. That I hold onto stuff when I should be getting on. Granted my past was so wonderful but I do think/reflect on it a lot.

Di, heavy topic. My mother was there but not on an emotional level. I'm not sure how I would have turned out if she has passed at an early age.

But, I think your friend is full of wisdom. It will create a neediness in us that no other person can fulfill.

I had to realize that what I wished for would never be and just get on with life without it. I've found other outlets to fill that spot.

[ December 26, 2005, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Dianne ]

Di, it's so complex, trying to figure out that aching hole that gnaws from so deep inside. I've had it for as long as I can remember, and it has made me so needy in the past that one therapist felt it necessary to teach me how to "budget my hunger" so that no one person would ever bear the brunt of it. It was a valuable lesson, except that it never did help me to figure out how to fill that hole. I think now after all I've tried to do to assuage the hunger, that it's a hole that should have been filled by a mother's love; I always hope and pray that someday I'll cross that elusive faith threshold where God's love will be enough.

I agree with Dianne, though, that at some point it becomes essential to recognize that gnawing hunger as my reality and learn to live (and love) around it, not letting it control my life and behaviours. It's kind of painful at times, trying to find other outlets to fill that spot without coming across as hungry and needy. God is a huge part of that search, hubby does what he can and my Boomer sisters, friends and family make it possible to live beyond that nagging sense of incompleteness.

Gosh, Eagle,

Since I've been so new here, I had no idea we "sort of" have this in common. I'm so sorry.

After talking to DH about this, he says I've "worn him out" and that I'm a "bottomless pitt of need". I really "thought" he was the nurturing kind when I first met him. BUT, the bad part is that we only had three dates and married.....10 years ago. Talk about false information........on both mine and his part!

So, now I have to dig myself out of the pitt. Not sure how, but I guess I have to! No meds for me, so I'll do my very best to get VERY involved in my soaping business, develop more passions and stay busy I suppose.

I think, for me, that I have way too much time to think. I think about the past WAY too much, I know,but what else is there to think on? I LOVED the past!

Di
What was so wonderful about your past that you cannot leave it? Surely it has been reconstructed in your mind because nothing is perfect except God.

You can't live in memories. To do so is to abandon the present and forsake the future. Bad memories should be left behind to die of starvation and good ones should be nurtured to become a strong foundation for the present. But living only happens in the here and now.

Even the most compassionate person cannot allow themselves to be swallowed up by the needs of another. Your husband may have simply given too much of himself. He must be terribly lonely. He is living in the present alone while you are living in the past.

Maybe you can look into the needs of your relationship and let that become your passion?

smile

smile, perfect! My thoughts exactly. I was thinking the very same thing. Di, why not make the relationship with your spouse and your business your passion. Thinking about the past too much usually means you don't have enough going on now to fill your mind's activity. Does that make sense?

yes, perfect sense. and you all are right. my dh needs the "me" who I am now since he really does not know the old me and where I came from.

I'm working on that starting now.

Ya'll are better than any counselor!!

"why not make the relationship with your spouse...your passion".

Smile, Dotsie, and Di, I needed to hear all of that too. My hubby is in the same state of depletion..."worn out" by my insatiable hunger (and searching) for whatever it is that will finally fill that emptiness. In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure we'll survive intact. I think the only way is for me to admit that my emptiness may never be filled to my satisfaction and to stop trying to fill myself and start trying to fill "us", our couple-ship and marriage. It's a different focus, which requires a different attitude and set of behaviours/responses. I'm struggling against old habits, but determined to put as much effort into repairing us as I've done trying to fill my own cup all these years.

Di, you're not alone. I'm so there.

Di,

It's sounds like you have an excellent grasp on the things you want to improve in your life and are heading in the direction of doing just that. I went through a time a few years ago of learning to let go of things from my past that were getting in the way of my being the best person I could be now. It's a long, hard journy, but one you can and will accomplish once you set your mind to it and seek out the means to accomplish it.

I don't quite understand your "no meds for me" statement, though. I never thought I would need medication for depression, but I do. And understand and accepting that has been a big help to me. There's no shame in taking antidepressents. I wouldn't stop taking my blood pressure meds, either.

I know there a lot of people that may not agree with me, but I need to do what's best for myself.

Eagle,

Not sure your childlessness is part of your "hunger", but for me it is. I realized long ago that we are ONLY prepared and raised, as little girls, to be mothers. I cannot recall a time in freshman health class that the teacher said, "now girls, a few of you may not become mommys and you also have to be prepared for that as well". No mention of infertility was ever discussed. All I heard was, "Di,you'll make such a great mother". NOT!

We were raised on "first comes love,then comes marriage, then the baby carriage". For me, I've have to continue life as it always was and will be. Most women in the world got a 'break' by having to raise/train/discipline children. Receive unconditional love and affection. I have to continue to fill my life with SOMETHING constantly. It gets old.

Now, during these years where I would have been a grandparent, once again, I have to find something else to do. I'm tired. I went to college for two years (assoc. degree) only because a figured I'd be a mother and the college would not be needed.

It's all I ever wanted...............

You know Di, I think as a woman ages we look back on our past with such a longing. I think it's just part of what many of us go through as we age, (that looking back on our past). There's nothing wrong with it except if it starts to define who we are now and we become depressed from looking back too much.

My mom always tells me look forward, not back but then she's always reminiscing and getting sad about the past too.

Let's refresh ourselves by looking forward to the rest of our lives as we do when we look forward to spring time.

The past is the past...we cannopt change it one ioda.
What good is there in looking back?
You lock into what you cannot change again and again, and like Ladybug mentioned can turn into depression.

Start with today, look forward to what you can change.

You have so much love waiting to escape into a child. Why not adopt, if that's not possible... Big Sister, foster family, day care work...the possibilities are endless.

College is not out of the picture...you can do anything you set your mind to do.

Love to you...

It seems to me that in life, we all get a share of loss and a share of joy. Midlife is when we can look back and decide what to keep. With no effort at all, the pain of loss will find us. Or with only a little effort, we can look for the joy and it will fill us.
We live only in the present and if we choose to keep only the pain, it will embitter the present and poison the future.

smile

[ December 30, 2005, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

I know ya'll are right. I just feel like I have had so much to time to remember stuff. Honestly, I recall things so vividly that my siblings call me in the middle of the night to ask!

My life has not been filled with raising kids. So, therefore, I feel like all I've had to do is remember, ya know?

I really have no pain from my past that I can think of that was life changing, except for losing Mom so young.

But I'm glad Dotsie started the thread about joy in our marriage. I DO need to do that. I'm such a mess!

Di..we can all be a mess from time to time.

My cousin has the gift of remembering everything...just like it happened yesterday.
Me...no way, think brain fog just takes over...I could forget my name on certain days.

I feel the "remembering" is your gift.
Remember, what you love ..fill each and everyday to the brim, with that love. It will lead you onto a path of fulfillment.

Look ahead sweet friend not behind.

thank you, Brenda.

You all have been so patient. And so giving of your advice and thoughts. What wonderful women to be gentle with me, the mess of the century!

I truly, truly appreciate boomer women. You sure are unique and quite understanding.

Maturity DOES have it's advantages!!

People in my family remember things forever. Problem is, they remember a lot of stuff that never really happened or maybe happened entirely differently.

Either way everyone sure has a great memory.

smile

You know what I think it is? Every single one of us has burdens and sadnessess to bear. And lessons to learn. And most of us aren't at the same place at the same time. It's all about growing - the journey. What you do with what you know.....As Vi recently said to me, just hang in.

And we have to recognize where in our lives, that we need to learn. I'm thinking that if it's a problem for us, then that's a flag. Kind of saying "Look Here - this is the place you need to grow !" And sometimes, that's the very hardest thing. But also, the harder it is, the more the growth. So we will struggle on, girls, learning and helping each other - and the New Year will bring us all blessings!!

(I do have a personal thought about depression, tho' - and these vivid memories. My Mother had them, and they plagued her for much of her life. I live in and out of "fog" like Brenda. But I believe, as time goes by, we will find that much of this has to do with neuro - chemicals. Some have more, some have less..But each of us has to learn to get on in life with what we have...Make adjustments, use strategies to get us through...Nichole had so many adjustments to make, but each and every day she lived, she got up out of her bed and did it. I can't begin to imagine how. So we learn. Each from the other....

Did that make one bit of sense? Sometimes, I'm just off on my own tangent........

Search

That made a great deal of sense, Searcher. I know when I get really depressed, I find myself dwelling on the past more than I know is good for me. As you said, each of us has to make our own way every day.

I'm at a pretty good place right now, a place where I can listen and perhaps help others. Many of the coping mechanisms I've learned have been reinforced by wonderful people like you!

yepthatsme2 you are so right, some of us are a mess from time to time.

That's life Di. No one tells us it will always be perfect. Some of us think it is until an event happens that shatters that notion. Sometimes we bring it on ourselves but many times "stuff" just happens. I think we need to give ourselves a break and try to forget our past transgressions and just forget about the past period. The sooner we can get away from thinking about the past the better we will feel emotionally.
Our male friend is a great guy who never got married. I'm not sure why. I personally think he had unrealistic expectations of what his ideal woman should be. When we visit him in the home he grew up in it's very depressing. It's like stepping back into the past. He lives like a pack rat and refuses to throw out anything even if it's a meaningless piece of paper his now-deceased brother owned. His past defines him and who he is now. He does have friends and a niece who has sons and their families. You can see by how he keeps himself and his home (both very unkempt)that he may be dealing with depression and not even knowing it. He keeps his Christmas tree up until February and has recorded some old Christmas radio programs from the 40's and 50's. He's almost 70. This is a person who continually looks back and lives in his past.

I never say anything to him about it because I believe in his mind it keeps his loved ones near even though they are all gone. I don't think it's a healthy way to live emotionally but it's the way he chooses to be.

As you say, let us look ahead to fresh ideas and never say never.

Granted, my past WAS wonderful. Well,most of it. Again, I just think I have so much time to think.....not ever having to help kids grow up, get homework done, go to sports games, recitals, plays, teacher's conferences, showers, weddings, baby showers etc..that I think TOO much about it.

But thankfully, self-actualizing (as a friend calls it) has come upon me with my business. I LOVE to talk AND talking about what I love to do gets me more sales! :wink:

Di,

I can relate. I had the child and lost her. I have way too much time to think of it.....And with her, I didn't have the sports games, recitals and such. No proms, weddings, baby showers........these things were almost too much for me to bear. It hurts today.

But what are we to do? We HAVE to make a decision. And the decision is : shall we mourne over what was not, or what we have? I have something. I have things. I have my son, whom I am SO grateful for, but he is involved in living his own blessed life, and I must continue to live mine as was intended. I cannot imagine living my life without my child, but can you imagine life with losing one? Each has our own burden - sometimes, I wish I could go back, to that sweet, innocent girl that just wanted to make things better for others- but then, I wouldn't have lived the life I've lived. And that's what was intended. At least I believe that. Life is surely hard.......and each, in their own way, must make peace with what has been given.......

I hear you, and I am thinking of your sorrow. But know that you can be strong. And make a difference for others, even in your pain.

Search

Searcher........i'm so sorry. It was a miscarriage I assume?
We have many women on our site who've had them and continue to be devestated. I was never pg so I cannot relate. Losing someone who was alive must be very hard, too.

Di, Searcher's loss was not a miscarriage. I'm sure she'll tell you more. Your heart will break and you will feel so much love for Searcher and her daughter...and son. She's a wise woman. When she speaks...I listen!

Oh,I'm sorry. Did I say the wrong thing? I apologize, Searcher.

Di,

No, no, no. No need for apologies. We can't be responsible for what we don't know. And this did not hurt me one bit. Nichole was 32 when she died this past April. This was due to a seizure, which was the after-effect of a brain tumor.

If you would like to know more, I have posted much on these forums. Recently, on the loss forum. Well, a whole lot on the loss forum and others also. This Boomer site has been my place to grieve and to heal....I cannot thank Dotsie enough, or on too many forums, for this opportunity. And the rest of our Boomer Women for listening so kindly to me....

Dotsie - you have a way of saying the nicest things! Thank you.

Di - so that is why I say that we each have loss. One way or another. It all is painful..and we just have to carry on, holding the pain, and struggle to make it past. But hopefully, pieces of light will emerge, to shine on others just where they need it.

Happy 2006 - a better year ahead!

Searcher

Searcher, you are special because you've been able to take your own pain and instead of being angry or bitter, you have become compassionate towards others. And I think we all appreciate the fact that you feel safe enough here to let us help you carry the pain. We can't take away each others' pain but we can help shoulder it so it doesn't feel as heavy.
Boomer women are the BEST!!

Searcher, you are one of most inspirational women I know. Your compassion is so profound and can't help but help others who are struggling along the same journey. I know you have helped me, more than you know because I often just soak in your wisdom very quietly with great appreciation and learn from your ability to "dance in the darkness".

I've used the term so many times before - "wounded healer" - it's because everytime I meet one, I experience again the unique healing power and light that radiates from wounded healers.

Bluebird,

I thank you and I have felt safe enough here. You all HAVE helped carry that pain. I'm so glad I've found you.

Eagle,

I am struggling for words. You and Bluebird just brought me to tears.....I am surely wounded. Deeply. But I am so humbled to think that I could have helped any one of you in this place of pain. I know that so many of us have been wounded . Great , meaningful , wounds. So I just think we can all help each other. I too, listen to you and others, and gain insight, comfort, and courage.. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Searcher,
You are an example of God's love, the way He can take the most horrible thing and use it as a blessing. Your pain is unfathomable to most of us, but God knows and somehow He is helping you find it in yourself to reach out to others. And because you are reaching out, we are finding strengths we didn't know we had. You are showing us how strong we can be.

God's love shines through you every day.

smile

Smile,

I am an example of Harietta's love (had to redefine God, over the years, decided to call my new idea, Harietta) for sure. I am just a small, little person, who recieved a HUGE blessing, in the form of Nichole. It's she who is reaching out and sending us all strengths we didn't expect to find....When I first heard of her brain tumor, and the expectations of her life, I didn't think I could hold on for another minute. This pain slashed so thoroughly through my very soul, that I became a mute. I couldn't talk. I couldn't think. I could only mimic life. Walking around, listening to doctors upon doctors. Upon doctors. Which I thought had no true knowledge about what was really happening....Certainly they knew words like , craniopharyngioma. They knew brain stem things, they knew pituitaries and hypothalmus. They knew cortisol, anti-diuretic hormone, thyroid hormone, female hormones, and a very frightening hormone - growth. Linear growth. They knew nothing. Nothing at all.......

Had I known then, what the years for her would have been like, and the years for us too, I would surely have taken us both to a mountain top in Montana, and jumped off.

But I didn't. A good thing. So day by day by day by day, she improved. So did I. But it was SO hard. REALLY hard. Not just a little hard, but as hard as it gets.....And this proved to be just the beginning.......

Things got worse after awhile. The seizures began. And then they really tanked. Seizures so severe that she became blue, quit breathing altogether....She must have had a thousand of them, maybe more. For 18 years. We lived in hospitals. Mayo Clinic. 3 months at least, on several occasions. Semi-comas,near death from one thing or another. But ALWAYS coming through. Always coming back to her sweet self - ok, not so sweet always, not me either - but we made it every time. So many times. So many.

But Nichole was a champion. She taught me to try and try and try and try. I still cannot believe she hung on as long as she did. She was aware of everything - the sadnessess of her life, the monumental efforts needed by her and me, and Sam. Still, she tried every day. And just as she was finally beginning to see some light in her future, some hope that she could live in the true sense......

She had found a young man who was a life -guard at the Y where she went to swim with her attendant 3 times a week. He was so nice to her, and treated her with respect and dignity. She began to like him.....Of a sudden, Nichole would ask me to buy new perfume, lipstick, blush. "Do you think we could streak my hair, Mom?" Absolutely! Let's go get some stuff right now!

Two days later, she was gone.

Strength? I didn't have it. She gave it to me. And still does....So we all have strength we didn't know we possessed....through the great wonder of loving. The greatest strength of all.

Search

I know all about the past ruling your life -- and almost ruining the lives of everyone around you because of that "need" to live there. I came to this conclusion and I refuse to let myself forget it ---

The past is good for remembering three things; what we DONT want to be anymore, what/who we DONT want in our lives anymore, where we NEVER want to be again.

Good memories and family and friends arent in our past -- they stay with us in the today and the future -- even if it's only in our hearts.

You aren't your past -- unless you CHOOSE to be.

You may have had the most horrible upbringing, relationships, experiences along the way -- but the bottom line -- YOU CHOOSE TO BE WHO YOU ARE !
No one else can MAKE YOU be anything else.

WHY? because you're NOT a child anymore. No matter how childlike you feel at times -- you're an adult and have the right and know how to draw those boundaries.

So what are the boundaries? For me, it's anything that makes me hurt inside -- any memory or experience or person that pulls me down to their level. My mother might have done me wrong as a child, but I refuse to allow her to keep me from growing as an adult. And for that reason, I can enjoy being around her now.

I enjoy LIFE now -- My hubby enjoys ME now. I'm a better mother and grandmother now. And where I thought God had abandoned me -- I now know that it was ME that abandoned HIM. It's not that he didn't hear me -- I couldn't hear HIM due to all the "PAST" in my life.

We all "go there" -- it's human nature to have a pity party now and then -- makes us stronger to pick ourselves up, shake it off and move on.

The secret is to know when to leave the party !

Lionspaaw, WOW what an uplifting post, so full of the positive truths of life. You took my breath away with the wisdom you shared. Glad your posting again wondered where you went. Everyone reading this post can learn that no one controls us but us...simple, but for some reason hard to realize by some....

[ January 11, 2006, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Lion,
Amen!

smile

Lionspaaw, I have to echo Chatty's "WOW". I read your post earlier this morning but didn't have time to respond. But your words have been settling into my soul, making a lot of wise sense to me who has spent far too much time lately in the past, especially remembering the last few weeks of my Mom's death (I read an article in a magazine last month that raised some old regrets and I haven't been able to shake them off).

Your words made me realize again that I have to get out of that place. No amount of stewing over the "what if's" and "could have's" will rewind the tape or make any difference to what's already happened. I have to once again forgive myself, shake off the sense of failure, and keep moving ahead. That whole experience of watching my Mom die the say she did might well be one of those areas in my memory I have to fence off and resolve not to delve into again. What was, was. I can't do anything to change that past.

Thank you so much for writing, Lionspaaw. It's ALWAYS a joy and delight to hear your voice again.

Thanks for the "welcome back" ladies.

You're right chatty - it's really hard sometimes to remember that it's OUR life - must be a "woman" thing ;-)

Eagle Heart - we're so busy trying to please everyone else, take care of family or pets or a career or all three. Perhaps that's why it's so easy to get caught up in that "failure thing" and slip back into that world of regret. We wear ourselves out trying to be what everyone one around us is used to getting from us that when we get a little tired and let someone down -- even if it's only in our own mind -- we get sucked down into the muck of the past. Until we gain our strength again -- we can wallow there for quite awhile.

Maybe that's why our mothers seem to be the ones that have caused the most damage to our "psycie" - because they were going thru exactly the same thing as we are now -- the cycle repeating itself thru generation and generation. Did you ever think about it that way? Maybe it wasnt YOU but HER that had the problem climbing out of the muck?

I chose to stop that cycle. My mother can live out the rest of her life a miserable old woman - just like her mother before her - it's HER CHOICE. But she is NOT going to drag me down with her.

I know I'm not perfect -- and every one of my scars I now carry proudly as life's battle wounds. I have told my child I'm sorry - from the bottom of my heart and soul - for the times I let him down. I have told my husband I'm sorry - and I won't be that woman again. I have told my God I'm sorry - and thanked him for loving me anyway.

And now I'm through saying I'm sorry !!! There is not one person - man or woman - that can't say I'm sorry to someone so why should I continue to beat myself up for something someone else did to me while simply being a lost soul too ?

I forgave them and I forgave myself and that's it. It's over now. Every morning I get up and say THANK YOU Lord for letting me wake up and I'll make the best of the day !!!

HUGS LADIES

I think part of any grieving process is to laundry list the "What ifs", the "might have beens" the "should haves"...but then we need to all move ahead, and to quote our fabulously eloquent lionspaaw...

"it's human nature to have a pity party now and then -- makes us stronger to pick ourselves up, shake it off and move on.

The secret is to know when to leave the party ! "

Leaving that pity party is exactly the point..
a point I want to remember for the rest of my life...Thanks Lionsspaaw..

LION'S BACK. I'm doing a major happy dance. I've missed you! Gosh you're wise.

There has been a sparkly glow in my spirit for the past two days...I don't think it's coincidence that it coincides with Lionspaaw's presence here...

I too like your line "the secret is knowing when to leave the [pity] party". I need quick quips to throw at myself, and this is a good one to remember for those times when I'm mucking around in those tired old regrets.

"Time to leave the party" is a healthier line than the one I've been using far too often lately: "Time for chocolate". Although I can see myself combining the two, you know, using chocolate to bribe myself out of the mud puddles?

geeee you ladies sure know how to make a girl feel good

I dont know how "wise" I am Dotsie -- I'm just tired of hurting and missing the beauty in life because of it.

It's so much more fun to ENJOY life - don't you think

oh - and Eagle Heart --

CHOCOLATE WORKS FOR ME tee hee

Nancy - I LOVE your quote about how people always remember how you make them feel