The Good Suffer...?

Why does God allow good people to suffer? All my life I've asked myself why God allows war, suffering, and pain. I know Jesus suffered more than any other person
ever has or ever will. But for over three years now, I've watched a dear, dear Christain, unspeakably suffer. And the people that did this to her, she did nothing but bless them. I love God. I love people. I'd like to know how the rest of you deal with such questions.
Why does God allow good people to suffer? Why does He
allow child abuse, the mistreatment of babies, illness and pain. He came into the world to bless the world, that we may have life abundant. Why doesn't everybody fit under that canopy?

Jabber, that is a question that I always wished I had an answer to.

The only answer I can come up with is that maybe God isn’t all mighty. Maybe we have humanized God too much, therefore as humans we can’t understand how suffering is allowed. I believe God is a force in nature that is beyond our comprehension. I think he set a stone rolling…but doesn’t have the power or interest, ( I’m humanizing him now too), to tell the stone where to land.

I do believe in God, because I just can’t believe that all this is just an accident. I do pray, because it makes me feel good. But I’m not sure if those prayers are heard; because if they were…then as you asked Jabber, why wouldn’t this almighty God do something about it.

I’m so sorry to hear about your dear friend suffering. And being a good Christian doesn’t make her exempt of suffering. Just think if it did…wow…we would all be living in churches.

Anne327 & Ed2...
Both of your answers are really, really good. I've pondered this question all my life. I even have a cousin who's 5 years older than me, and pondering this very issue kept her from attending church. Cous had a little
3-year-old sister die from an agonizing disorder. Since then, cuz struggled just to hang on to her sanity. My "friend-in-a-mess" was a churchgoer, active in the both secular and religious community. The lady visited those in nursing homes; cooked meals for citizens' with cancer, etc. I mean, the woman helped a half dozen women fighting depression. She led many back to a relationship with the Almighty. And I don't get it. I research the topic on google. One person finally concluded, "I don't know the answer 2 such a quandary!" That's my answer too. "I don't know." But I admire members on this site and wondered how they justified such unjustice. I think we humans don't have the mental capacity to understand what God is doing. And perhaps it's just as well! Thanks for responding to this. I've been fighting with God for over three years now. If I ever get an answer, I'll surely share it with you gals!
Prayers and blessings,

Oh Jabber, such a great question and I'm right there with you...I've asked that question for years and years and never gotten an answer that seemed to soothe the questioning. Many years ago, I read "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" and my recollection is that something in that book helped me start moving in a new direction. Not, mind you, that it takes away the pain of seeing someone else suffer or feeling things are unfair and unjust. Just that it helped me start seeing life in different ways.

The most recent questioning came after seeing "The Kite Flyers". Have you seen it? The unfairness of so many things had me questioning again and again. And I had another of my "crisis of faith" moments (I spent over 10 years saying "God sucks and there isn't one" and lumping all churchgoers into a rather nasty bucket after my dad used Biblical principles to formally shun me).

To say I have an eclectic belief system is probably an understatement (for example, my belief in past lives). I've been studying Law of Attraction principles, Law of Duality principles and various other spiritual principles for quite some time (about 15 years or so), and this movie really had me questioning, again. I was in tears, sobbing actually, by the time the movie was done. And, because I believe in past lives, I talked to one of my mentors who does too. She reminded me that we don't know what another's path is...what they are here to learn or do or achieve or how they are to do what they came here to do.

I've heard many different teachers and mentors discuss the "value" of suffering and I wonder...why is it that it is that suffering is supposed to be such a great teacher. I remember when my second husband (a Zen Buddhist) said that is one of the Buddhist principles...life is suffering and the more we focus on why it "shouldn't" be, the more the suffering. Hum, I wonder?

Which leads me to the conclusion...we simply don't know the "why" (which drives me bonkers by the way), and it is our job, in my opinion, to support and question and be full of kindness and live in the most loving way we can. To work with the gifts we have and put them to the best use possible! To find the Light within in each being and honor that light, while not condoning inappropriate...or downright bad...behavior at the same time. Crud, the paradoxes of life raise their heads again. Can't it ever be "simple"! The good get the good stuff, the bad get the bad stuff, the punishment? EEK, guess my judgmental side is popping out, eh?

And if you do get an answer, I, for one, would most certainly appreciate it! Maybe then I would quit bugging the bejeebers out of people by asking "why".

Mama Red, Can you remember what it was that helped you move in a new direction?

I wish I did sweetie...and I don't remember the specifics. I *do* remember it opened my eyes to a new way of thinking...I don't remember now if it was that book, or something later, that helped me start focusing on the gifts in situations and working to clear my judgment about what *should* or *shouldn't* be happening based on my own knowledge, realizing I didn't know the big picture for myself, let alone others.

Anne

I am right there with you. In fact, that is one of the points of disagreement between my amazing mom and me. She believes the Bible is the inspired word of God, as written by humans. I remind her that she and I have disagreements about how things happened and we, supposedly, speak the same language (American English)! How much more difficult when you add translations, political agendas and human frailties and opinions into the mix!

Anne, very eloquently put. And I agree with you. I also think the more we try to find an answer, the more confusing it is.

So, I just let it be. Let life happen. I didn't ask to be born, nor will I be asked when I shall die. And in the middle; just make the best of it. Try to be good, do no harm to others, and smell those flowers along the way.

AMEN TO THAT, Edelweiss!!!

Amen Edelweiss! Well said!

AMEN to that, Eidelweiss!!!! AMEN and Halleluja..

Mama Red,
I read that book, too, a while back. It didn't help me as much as it helped you. I don't blame God for the "bad" that happens in the world. I believe He's a good God. I'm just questioning why He doesn't jump in and protect those that love Him when they need help and ask for it. I agree. I didn't ask to be born.
And I can't decide when I'll die. And in between, I probably shouldn't question the stuff I don't understand or like. When my firend's unpleasant situation began, another friend advised me, "Don't question why!" And most of the time I try do what she said. But it's hard being human and I get off the beaten path sometimes. Thanks for all the input ladies!

A while ago, I said I wasn't going to bring this situation up any more. But a broken heart has a big mouth now and again!
In the future, I'll attempt to suppress the misery as much as possible.

jabber, I hope you don't stop. thinking things like this through helps us all.
first, we can see into the thinking of an array of beliefs. second, we can help each other make sense of this journey by letting each other know we have like questions
third, we can think as one brain, bringing in a collective understanding from diverse experiences
fourth, we can support each others doubting, encourage further thought and acceptance
five, we can make it easier on each other by opening our ears and our hearts... has anyone ever noticed that 'ear' is embedded in the word 'heart?'
six, we learn
... and so on....

Anne0327, your answers would mirror my answers, having been subjugated by Christian teaching for the better part of my life. There have been various PBS specials and books (many which I have watched and read, respectively) explaining, tearing down, building up, making sense of, introducing new elements, and fathering points with counter-points on the Christian faith (from whence your answers seem to stem). That is a piece of the puzzle, but just a piece, IMO. Personally, I think the answer to jabber's question goes to a point beyond that.

EW, you have touched on that very point with your answers, by virtue of "maybe we have humanized him too much." I ditto your statement "...God is a force in nature that is beyond our comprehension" and add, God is not to be comprehended. He is not the gray bearded mass of a man sitting on a throne waiting to strike us down on a whim or lift us up on the whisper of a prayer. Likewise, we are not 'our form.'

Part of the way I find comfort in how the universe works, I think these few words when I am in the throws of a problem or am witness to an injustice, "when prayers collide." One wishes (prays for) one thing, while another wishes (prays for) an opposing thing. This was to be the title of a book a sister and I started writing about five years ago.

I believe mankind has taken the wrong path. We have not concentrated on the 'spirit' things. We've focused on the 'ego' things - adding adjectives = pure spirit vs. selfish ego. If we don't branch over to the spirit path soon, we will surely bring greater doom to ourselves, mankind. To add, the spirit path is not paved with religions, which foster ideologies, human traits (ego, being one, but the biggest), and divisiveness. The greatest gift preachers, pastors, priests, rabbis, shamans, teachers in all sects, influential individuals, philosophers, etc. could give the world would be to direct our thoughts and aims to spirit, of which God is. There are opposing poles to everything, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction," Newton. The paradoxical nature of life, Mama Red touched on. I believe this applies to God, in spirit, too. A person who adopts and practices the good God energy, will bring good to earth. Those who adopt and practice the bad, bring the bad upon us. We are all living the same experience, just on different stages... my stage may have a bare bones backdrop, while yours has an opulent over-staging, but the three part play is the same - we are born, we live, we die. I'll add here, my play may be a tragedy, yours a comedy, while yet another is a 'feel good.' They are all equal, but which has the most value? I have my own opinion, but I'll leave that question for you to answer.

I, too, have asked jabber's question, not unlike every other who has a brain that functions with any normalcy. The answer is deep within all of us... even those who choose to keep channeling the bad energy of the universe.

these are my opinions...

Spot on Gims, spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dearest Jabber

PLEASE don't stop asking and questioning, please?

Mama Red, please pray that I continue tapping into the good God spirit (insert a slight nod and imploring look from gims)

Dearest Gims

Of course, of course! (And the imploring look was the kicker...darn it anyway...MR laughing!) I know you're already tapped in and will stay that way. With your heart, nothing else is possible!

Gims said: What a sisterly thought. I love it.
Gims, here is my official order, when your book comes out!
How very true
I don’t believe in horoscopes, fortune tellers, or in anyone who claims they can see in the future, because I don’t think there is a plan. I believe our lives are a combination of coincidence, especially as to where we were born and raised. It’s a question of our health our ambitions, and if we have the energy and know-how to carry them through. One thing we all have in common, no matter where we live and under what circumstances, and that is time. We al have the gift of time. What we do with it is our own choice.

lol.... did you read 'plan,' EW, instead of 'play'... If yes, wanta borrow my glasses? If not, I'll respond with:
I read horoscopes every so often, but after the fact.
you said - "...our lives are a combination of coincidence..."... sometimes I wish the coincidences would stop... at least for a week, or two!

Hand 'em over gims. Yes I read plan instead of play....,

Now with your glasses I look super inteligent. One pair is on my head,...and yours are on my nose. heeehheheheheeeee

EW--I don't believe anyone can tell the future either, albeit for a different reason. And I sure wish people could quit focusing on the doomsday stuff about 2012! Talk about way into the future (considering the materials were written eons ago).

I also agree we all have time...it is a commonality for all of us, as is choice. And thanks for giving me another item to add to my list of commonalities for a presentation I do on diversity. I give students an assignment...to identify at least 25 ways in which all humans are the same. So now I can add time...for whatever reason I hadn't thought of it before (no clue as to why I left *that* one out!). Grin

I don't personally believe in coincidence...more in synchronicity and the value of each situation to give as an opportunity for choice. Aren't we blessed to have so many ways to look at the world!

Gims...and I do get what you're saying about wishing the coincidences would stop at least for a week or two! I've been there and I know it gets dadblasted tough to handle sometimes!

Hang in there girl! Hang in there! Sending love and prayers your way.

EW...I told my "daughter" you lived near Munich and she asked if I knew where...I told her no and realized I also told her I would ask you!

Coincidences - funny how things pop up.
There's been something I've been meaning to ask for a long time. But, seem to bring it up. I thought about it after submitting a post on one thread, then reading another soon after.
It concerns words.

Here's an incident as an example:
Yesterday I used the word congruent, a word I don't remember ever using before. Low and behold, if I didn't hear the same word on the TV last night.

I used the term "average Joe" in a post on the VP debate thread. Turned around and someone had used it in another thread, similar in nature. I don't commonly use the term.

This is another strange one, one that has stuck with me because it was so very weird.... I used the word "trophology," a word I've seen in writing, but I have NEVER used until one day. Within 24 hours, I heard the word used by someone else.

I could go on and on... at one point, it was becoming so bizarre that I thought I'd try writing notes of when it happened. Never did. Wish I had, 'cause it happens all the time... it's a recurring phenomenon (best I can describe it) with me.

Yes, I and others have the same vocabularies... but when the words pop up from nowhere into my speech, striking me as odd that I chose to use them, then hear or read them in a short span of time.... well, is it coincidence... or, could it be something else? Dumb thinking, huh?

I won't stop asking questions. I like to ponder varied answers. But when I restate the horrible situation that I've been living through for over three years now, I feel guilty. I believe everybody here is probably sick of hearing about it. I prefer to be upbeat. And most of the time I am. But once in a while reality smacks me up side the head and the serious side of life takes over. I believe God is spirit, too. Since He's everywhere, all the time, that's the only reasoning that makes sense to me. And again, I believe God is Good and bad comes from Satan or demonic, evil spirits. But many of the Psalms, etc. say God will protect the Christian. That was what I had been questioning. I cannot wrap my brain around why God did not protect and keep from precious friend from such devastation. Please pray for her by the way. She going downhill quickly. And it's very, very difficult to watch and be unable to do anything to turn things around. I pray morning, noon and night for the sweetie. She needs a miracle!

Hi Jabber

I know how hard it is...I've been there too and sometimes all you can say is "it sucks!". I will pray for your friend and sometimes I wish there was "more" I could do and then I remember the power of prayer, even though the results are not always immediate nor obvious nor what we wish to see.

I had to look up the word trophology. Thanks Gims, learned a new word today.

Our brains are amazing computers storing things we don’t know we have stored. That’s the only way I can explain using words that you never normally use.

When I watch the Millionaire show, I constantly surprise myself as to what I know. I have no idea how I got some of the information. I read it, and store it,…and it is still there. And the most amazing thing is; is to recall something you didn’t know you knew.

As far as you using words that you hear again from others with in a short time; well I think that is just coincidence. Maybe you are just more aware of those words, because you had just used them.


Jabber, I haven't thought you have been complaining alot at all. You are going through a terriblly sad time, and if it helps, then post as often as you want. We will never tire of it. We have helped Eagle in her pain, and now we will hopefully be able to help you.

I have a [Webster's New World, College Dictionary] and the word tropology shows up but not the word trophology.
They indicate the one without the "h" means moral rather than literal interpretation of literature such as The Bible. I guess some churches, like the "Assembly of God," the church my friend and I attended for decades, interpret over 1600 years of Biblical writings by over 44 authors, almost literally. I believe the Bible was inspired by The Holy Spirit. I'm not sure I believe in all that that non-denominational denomination practices but the basics seem okay. I do think humans with a reasonably healthy fear of God are less likely to harm others and more likely to live an honest, good, kind, helpful existence. I've tried everything humanly possible to pull my friend out of the mess she's in and cushion my efforts with prayer. God and a miracle are her only way out. Thank you ladies for being supportive. I love you for that!!! Prayers and blessings...

n.a.p., EW... hope others introduce new and strange words to us so we can learn more... and I went to bed thinking about what you said concerning the 'amazing' brain. I think you're right. Instead of it being some strange phenomenon (something odd like hearing/seeing words on two planes, ESP'g into/from a later date, getting a word-by-word message from an unseen source, whatever) it probably is coincidence... using an uncommonly used word, tuning me into noticing it if it's spoken or written within a short memory time span. It still feels weird when it happens.

Jabber, it is so hard hearing about your friend. But, you do know it's good to talk about it. We're hear to listen, no matter how many times you mention it. Something similar is going on in my mom's life, BUT it's my family (siblings - shared parentage) ) who are doing it to her... my situation - probably not any more personal to me as your situation is to you, but I expected more from family.
Why is such happening to two Godly women? He is preparing them, as they have prepared themselves. If, by truth and fact, they have put on the full armor of God, they have nothing to fear. My mom was the most faithful and forceful prayer warrior I've ever known. (I put it in past tense, because she is so drugged up, now, I doubt she has the capacity to fervently pray in a drugged state.) She has been an intercessor for sooooo many... an effective one, too. That, to me, is the greatest loss to the world, in her case. The only thing I find comfort in is that someone is learning a lesson by the horrible circumstances she has been brought to bear... God must have known she was that important and has placed her where he needs her as a means to an end. For me, it has taught me to fight (as in strongly oppose, seek justice - not physically) those who wrong her. By nature, I retreat when faced with controversy or conflict. I won't go into the limitations I've faced, but, to let you know, I am deeply saddened by your friends state of affairs. Give her a hug for me AND MY MOM.

I am going to refer to earlier posts here on this thread where some of you ladies mentioned !bad people"...how do we know..I mean really know if someone is bad? By their deeds perhaps? But do we really ever know WHY someone does what they do? I can go so far to say that I don´t know for absolute certain that Hitler was a bad person..because I cannot see into his heart and soul. I am NOT defending what Hitler did by any means..but I am trying to to go to extremes to make my point. He did bad/evil/ horrible things to so many..YES. But is he a bad person? I don´t think that´s for me to say. I come originally from the Czech rep. so my family has suffered 1st hand from Hitler..I am not discussing this politically..but rather spiritually...

I think you mean that some people have chosen the wrong way in life, and that may not make them bad pursay. You are saying the deeds are wrong, but the person isn’t necessarily bad. Is that what you mean Humlan?

What about people who torture others? And even get pleasure from it? These people have something evil in them. It doesn’t matter to me if they had a horrible childhood. Many people have had awful childhoods, but still manage to make the best of it as adults.

You might want to call bad people mentally instable,… but then they are mentally unstable bad people to me. I think they are frightening, for they have no conscience. Infact they get all hyped-up if their victim pleads for mercy. Hitler didn’t have a bad conscience either. For me he was the epitome of evilness.

Friends of ours are parents of a “bad” boy. Honestly, I never met anything like him before. He is now 5 years old, but from birth on he has been a terror for his parents. He literally gets an evil gleam in his eyes, and then, watch out. Either he’ll whack his little sister, pull the table cloth with all the dishes on it onto the floor, or just scream to make your hair stand on end. He’ll break out into a run at a shopping mall, just to kick some other innocent child. This kid is bad. There is no other way I can describe him. Oh, and he’s my God child to boot.

Just as 'God' is not the white bearded mass of a man doling out good, Satan is not this physical being we were taught to fear, i.e horns, tail, breath of fire, and the pitch fork!-really!. The Bible does say that devil can appear in many forms, even that of an angel, but in my believing, he is simply the opposing side of good spirit (God). I really don't like personifying Satan; don't even like capitalizing the name given to the evil spirit - it's like giving it importance)

Psalms is a book of songs. I think (my way of believing) is that the verses you might be referring to seem to be saying God will protect us. Because they are poems/songs the purpose is slightly different from, let's say, something Jesus said. Also, study the story of Job. There was little Godly protection on his behalf. Maybe your friend should be considered a 21st century Job. Hard, yes indeed, to frame it that way!

You are so faithful. More prayers for your friend from here.

humlan, can you point out where some of us mentioned "bad people?"
Hitler was bad, regardless. Everyone has bad thoughts, but someone hurting another by manifesting evil, in my book, makes that person bad.

my opinions

Jabber,
Sorry that I've arrived late to the party here but your post strikes a nerve. I've been in a heated debate with God the Father for several years now. The past five years of my life have felt like God's been peeling my onion, stripping away layer after layer of everything I knew, loved, held dear, found comfort in......I was furious at Him. After a lifetime of living what I believed to be a righteous life, giving freely of myself, being a devoted wife and mother, worked for a church for pennies, PTA mom, blah blah blah, my life suddenly turned upside down. Parents died, brother died, husband lost his mind and left, financial woes, a son in Iraq......wave after wave of craziness. The stress was eating me alive, and I mean that factually not figuratively. I kept asking myself, what did I do to deserve this crap? I played by all the rules as I'd been taught them in catholic school, lived a life of service, never took anything for granted.....so why? And then one day I just realized that there will never be an answer to that particular why. It was just my turn to suffer.....sometimes shit just happens. I don't think God is the author of my mess and I certainly don't think it's part of some divine "plan" as some Christians might believe. It's just a consequence of the fallen nature of humanity. And I don't say this in any defeatist way, I just had to reach acceptance of my situation and find a way to keep it from killing me. My kids tell me often that they don't think it's fair that I have to struggle so hard after years of working so hard.....but much as I hate cliches, no one ever told me life would be fair. I have learned a great deal during these past 5 years, about my nature and the nature of the universe. The most important thing I've learned is perspective....just when I start to feel like the most tortured creature on the planet, I meet someone who has struggled with hardships far worse than my own. In reaching out to that person, in offering love or comfort, I find my own wounds healing; I find a purpose in my own hardships. I can stand just about anything if at some point, I discover that there was some purpose served, some lesson learned; that my struggle wasn't in vain. In the last year or so, I have found that my path has crossed the paths of others who are just now dealing with things like bi-polar family members, the sudden death of a parent, cancer, a messy divorce, a child in harms way and in offering them support or comfort, I recognize that while God may not have been the author of my pain, He has helped me to find the lesson in it, and to hold the hand of another weary traveler as together, we heal one another. I'm sure I've said all of this in a rambling, messy sort of way, but I hope you are able to understand. I guess in a nutshell, God may have set the world in motion, but it is up to us to determine its direction.

Kathryn

Thank you for sharing your story and your viewpoint. I know what it is to struggle with the situations we find ourselves in and feeling like it is "just" too much to bear. I, too, have railed and fought and pushed and shoved, and wondered what I could have possibly done to "deserve" the situations I'm in. And as I've surrendered more, I've found the same thing you have...many others have crossed my path who have similar situations and my coping skills (although not always perfect) or my learnings from the situation have helped others cope with their situation. The synchronicities I find are amazing...and each time I share with someone I heal a bit more.

We were given "choice" as a gift...and although I sometimes wonder if it is a gift, it is what it is and I've learned and grown so much. It is my current reality...to believe I have choice and to act on it. I love Byron Katie's saying (paraphrased): You can argue with reality...and you only lose 100% of the time. Each time I do my rail at the world gig, this saying pops up, reminds me to look at the facts, and see how I can use the situation to learn more, give me, and heal more.

Again, my thanks for sharing and living and grieving and being. You are such a gift to each of us who gets to share your path.

In one of those funny coincidences, yesterday I received an email newsletter from a special forces organization that I subscribe to. The theme of the founder's message this month was "suffering". Not 10 minutes after responding to the suffering post here, I was reading his take on suffering and his response to it, clearly from a warriors perspective, but some very interesting thoughts and a few quotes, which I share here.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts" Winston Churchill

"Pain is temporary, it may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever." Lance Armstrong

"For us warriors, knowing when to quit, retreat or yield from pain and suffering does not come easy and as it was with the Spartans each of us must come to that decision on his own. It is not in our nature as warriors to surrender to anything but we must know there will come a time when we will have to use courage to make that hard decision to stop and regroup to seek an alternative victory. Dave; former Special Forces soldier

"It requires more courage to suffer than to die." Napoleon

"Without cancer, I never would have won a single Tour de France. Cancer taught me a plan for more purposeful living, and that in turn taught me how to train and to win more purposefully. It taught me that pain has a reason, and that sometimes the experience of losing things-whether health or a car or an old sense of self-has its own value in the scheme of life. Pain and loss are great enhancers." Lance Armstrong

Oops posted too fast.....what I would like to close with is this

To all of my "warrior" women friends out there....I salute you, I embrace you and I hope to be here to journey with you, through the joys and the suffering as we seek an "alternative victory".

A perspective once shared with me by a woman minister who grew us as a missionary kid:

When people who are suffering ask, why me, her response was, why not you?

Now when hardships hit, I've learned to accept them as they are. This is a totally different perspective than the one with which I was raised.

Who do we think we are that nothing "bad" should ever happen to us.

I must say that I was raised in the Catholic church and it was there that it was implied that if you live your life a certain way, meaning according to God's plan, we could somehow side-step hardship. There is nothing further from the truth.

There an excellent book that I read recently called The Shack. It's about a man whose child is kidnapped and murdered. He is given the opportunity to meet with God the father, son and holy spirit for a weekend and asks the toughest questions about life and faith and the promises we are given. The author is brilliant with his answers.

If this topic has been of interest to you, I highly recommend this book.

Thanks for all the lovely reflections shared within this topic. I so love hearing other voices that speak to me, whether they are as I believe or not. They are all food for thought.

I should probably let good enough be good enough and give it a rest..but I can´t. I work with kids..have all my life. So I gotta tell you that your description of your godson..that 5 yr old boy..is something that I have seen before and can relate to. There are many mental and emotional conditions during childhood that are today attributed to very very tiny brain damage. We, today, do not have instruments sensitive enough to detect them..but we can detect them by the fact that something is missing in the brain tissue.

Since this child is only 5 yrs of age..if he should appear in my group of children..I would soon be allerting the "experts" that I work with at the large hospital in my area. They work as a team..a child neurologist, a pediatrician, a psychologist or psychiatrist, 2 teachers trained in working with special children and a family therapist (to help out the family and perhaps ascertain if there are some unhealthy patterns (most commonly, behavioral patterns) within the family that is uknown to them). The child would go thru examination..which takes about 4 weeks or more..and is done at the child´s level..with the parents also working with the experts..this is a criteria to have this done for the child..the parents much also be active and present. Because in my opinion..your godson is NOT evil..but has a mental problem. He is far too young to be "evil"..he is driven by something in his make-up that is missing. And he very very much needs help. If he were a child in my group, I would take this very very seriously. He is slowly dying inside while his environment..is unintentionally doing the "killing". EW..dear friend..this is quite a serious matter. There are so many disorders known today
which, if he be diagnosed properly..he could get help for. Today there are adults that have been diagnosed that are helping children with their syndrome..and giving lectures around the world about their problems and how they have learned to cope.

With love..to you, godmother and EW

P.S. EW..I must add that I have a certain syndrome in mind.when I read about your godson..but I don´t dare give a"diagnosis"..it´s not my field..altho I would probably mention my thoughts to the experts that I work with..as we know eachother quite well by now. Your godosn is not alone in his type of behavior..believe me..I would go as far to say that it is classic to a certain syndrome (combination of symptoms). Please try and get him some help..him and his poor family.

Hugs!

I don't know if people can be labeled "bad"; but what if they really are bad? When a Christian woman marries a "Christian" man and his children pretend to be sweet and kind and loving but the exact opposite is true, then to me that's bad. The lady in deep, deep is my "spiritual mom." I love her. And these past three years I've seen her cry, time and time again. I've seen her drugged. I've seen her suffer. She can't recover because she hasn't a house to go home to. And she does not deserve it, the misery befallen her. When humans deliberately torment another and steal from them and lie about them, to me that makes the evildoers bad! No one has the right to take another's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. All of this angel's civil rights have been stolen. Elder abuse is the perfect crime; she loves her husband and is protecting him by not snitching on his kids. Who can say that she didn't willing sign everything over to them: the house, car and investments. Be alert, people! Watch your aged loved ones!

I'm not asking why me Lord? I'm asking why her, Lord? I know GOD allowed JOB to lose everything! But the Bible says He'll repay double for your trouble. Job got everything back twofold!

Humlan, I have had the very same thoughts about this little boy.

His parents are highly intelligent and loving people. His mother is an internist and his father a Dr. Engineer. His mother is a mild, soft spoken, and in my opinion, too lenient, mother.

They don’t get any invitations to friends’ homes because of this child. When we meet them, it’s only at a lake:...where there is lots of room all around.

If the mother, who is an excellent physician, had any doubts about him being normal or not, I'm sure she would have him examined. Maybe she even has. I don't dare say anything, parents can get horribly offended. I’m sure they are fully aware of his problems. He has been kicked out of 2 or maybe 3 Kindergardens already.

I do believe my God child is highly intelligent, but he seems to hate everyone and everything around him. He has two siblings (he is the oldest). They are perfectly normal.

We once babysat him,…and he cried non stop for hours on end. He was so hoarse that he could only get a rasping sound out. Nothing could quiet him down. Hubby and I even danced the Irish jig for him. He cried more when he saw that. Come to think of it; I don’t blame him.

You have my utmost respect Humlan for working with such disturbed children. It’s a task that calls for unlimited patience. I just tipped my imaginary hat. Thanks you for your excellent suggestions.

EW2,
I wouldn't mind if someone danced the Irish Jig for me. And I don't think I'd cry, either. Laugh maybe. But not cry!

Ok, EW..sorry that it has taken so long for me to get back to you and this forum. Sometimes there´s just alot going on..and not necessarily bad either.

It sounds to me like his parents are having a hard time facing up to the apparent problems..but that´s totally natural. And, of course.. you have to go with your feelings!!!

Thank you for understanding and taking my post as it was meant for you.

Lots of love