Ladies, apologies for bring this up again as I know some members here think I'm "blowing smoke", which I am not. But when you meet women for the first time, and if you do not KNOW, please don't ask if they have children. Or, be very cautious in a new setting of younger women. Or ask how many they have assuming ALL women have them! If we don't mention that we do, we either may not have them, may not want to talk about them or have other things to say!

Often times I converse with women not ever knowing they do have them 'cause they have outside interests...which is so nice to hear!

More often now we get comments on our website that we are "assumed" to be a mother because we are women. Another comment is "Oh, you LOOK like a mother. How many kids do you have"?

It hurts. Some women may never "get over' the fact that motherhood passed them up. When we say we "could not have them"....or "I was not so blessed", please leave it at that. Or simply say "I'm sorry". Making suggestions ie: "have you thought of adoption" just does not help. Please know that we have thought of every which way....or are not "called" to be adoptive people. Or have gone thru tests and may have depleted funds to have treatments only to come up empty armed.

On the other side of the coin, if you want others to know you have kids, tell them! Then we'll know which direction to go w/the conversation.

this is all part of my on-going effort to educate about us CNBC'ers. (Childless Not By Choice'ers)

I personally don't have a problem at all with your continuing education of women about childless, not by choice, friends. I never gave it a second thought until you pioneered the education of it all here. I salute you for doing so. I can't imagine someone here thinking you blow smoke about something so near and dear to your heart.

Carry on your mission. I would imagine you are helping a certain demographic in earnest!

I say Bravo!

Di, some of your suggestions sound fine in terms of raising sensitivity, but a few of them are contradictory. I have no idea how on earth I'm supposed to (1) guess that a stranger might not have children or not want to talk about them AND (2) go ahead and talk about my own children -- to the same person. Either way I will upset her.

Maybe I shouldn't ask if someone has family in case she has suffered a death or other loss. Maybe I shouldn't ask if she has pets in case her dog or cat just died. Maybe I shouldn't ask if she is married in case she's getting a divorce or has been widowed. Maybe I shouldn't ask if she likes to exercise in case she doesn't. Maybe all of these people haven't gotten over their losses -- who does, really? -- and I'll upset them. Maybe I just shouldn't talk to them at all.

Seriously, I assume that every single person our age has suffered some deep loss or pain; I just don't know what it is. But you know what? I'm going to be a lot more careful from now on when I meet people.

I do agree, by the way, with the idea that people shouldn't assume someone is a mother or try to 'help' by offering obvious suggestions as though the other person cannot think. People do this all the time on all sorts of issues -- childless or not -- and it's maddening.

Right Ellen. We (in my circle) often say that we know better how to respond since we are so sensitive to our needs and situation. For example:

Me: Hi, do you have kids?
Them: No, could not have any.
Me: I'm so sorry. I couldn't either and I SO understand your grief.

When way too often we hear:

Them: Do you have kids?
Me: No, could not.
Them: Oh, have you considered adoption? Have you tried this (sex position)? My sister could not have any for the longest time, then she was able to adopt..then she had twins! I understand. I could only have one.

The best thing to do is see how the conversations go...cautiously. I feel "left out" when others talk about the wonderful times they have w/their mothers. Mine is gone for nearly 35 years. It hurts EACH day. So, I do not engage in conversations that are too much for my emotional fragility.

My mom has been gone for a long time, too, and like everyone else who had a good one, I still miss her. But I don't get upset when someone who doesn't know me all that well asks what I'm getting my mom for Mother's Day. They don't mean any harm and I'm glad they still have their mothers.

Actually, I don't talk much about my family at all. My personal business is not there for other people to pick over, and if I don't know you (general you not personal you), don't trust you, or don't like you -- especially the last two -- you'll get almost nothing from me. Kinda weird, maybe, but that's just me.

I never ask a woman whom I've just met or only know distantly (and the latter could be for years), if she has children. It is almost as if the "children" question has to be known by some folks so that they can "slot" /fold you into their conversation.

As a librarian in a female dominant profession, other colleagues genuninely....don't really care....at all of your marital status or if one has children. Most of the time I have no clue if alot of these women have children. I don't ask. For the some of the female cyclists I've gone in groups..where I've led rides, I had no idea if they had children.

I'd rather that the woman offers voluntarily if she wishes, to indicate she has children. Different of course, if you are with your closest girlfriends.

Great to hear this, orchid. I think it's very considerate to not "pry" deeper than we are invited.

Unless a woman I just meet asks me a question, I volunteer nothing and vice versa. If I want to know something I will ask but usually don't want to know anything she does not tell me openly. That is something you can't plan for just play by ear.

Di,
I think it's great that you're educating others on being more
sensitive to the issues that really hurt. We sometimes know stuff instinctively, but throw caution to the wind. After hearing what you're going through, I'll be more careful what I ask strangers. Some hurts never heal; I know that. Prayers and blessings,