Ok, you guys know by now that I am sadly childless. Yes, I do have a great life, but sometimes those zingers just hit my and it hurts even more.

So, I have this lovely, Christian friend for 10 years now. She has such a giving heart and has the gift of "helps". "C" (who is 56 yrs old)and I hit it off from the get go. Now, she works for me, which is wonderful...however:

She is CONSTANTLY telling me about how wonderful her daughter is to her (she only has the one)..that she buys her clothes etc. Helps her monetarily...and the grandkids/how wonderfully smart they are and what fun she has being around them and how much she misses them blah, blah, blah. My friend is not the brightest but her heart is big.

So, my question. How can I tell "C" that she may not realize what a heartache it is to hear her continuously bragging about her daughter. All of her talk is a huge reminder of what I do not have and longed for. All I say is "that's so nice". But inside I'm sobbing.

please help...and be honest!

Di, I'm sorry you're feeling so low. I've read many of your posts and visited your website, and I know that this is terribly difficult for you. But I'm going to say something that may not be popular -

People enjoy talking about what they love. If you don't allow people to share what's important to them, then it's difficult for them to have anything to talk about. Think about friends that get together for a good time - they talk about what they love and their friends ARE HAPPY FOR THEM.

We can all try to be sensitive to your loss - because it is a true loss - but we should not have to watch everything we say all the time. I sometimes feel that you are overwhelmed with sad thoughts and it's difficult for you to be happy for others.

I feel that you need to try to find things that DO make you happy, so you can share your good times and thoughts with your friends as well. Most people probably don't understand how deeply you hurt for a child, but will you let that ruin your friendships and other relationships?

I truly hope I haven't hurt you; you wanted honesty and that is what I feel.

Take care,
Kathy

Thank you for your honesty,kathy. I appreciate it.

Now my question would be doesn't anything else beside her daughter/grandkids make her happy? This is constant/every day she's here. I think too much is too much.

I'll never get over this emptiness I feel. Some people, I know, want to tell me to get over it, but I will never be completely healed. There is not one day that goes by where I do not sense an aloneness in this world. Everywhere I look there are reminders.

I may talk to my friend. She's a very compassionate so I think she'll understand.

Dear Di,
Like Kathy, I too have read all your posts. So many of us have tried to comfort and understand you, but were not able to really sooth your pain.

I agree that if you have such a good friend, she must know of your pain, and should be more considerate of your feelings. Only, that doesn't solve the problem. You will always meet people that will talk of their children and grandchildren. Maybe you should choose friends in the same situation as you are in. That's like everything else…we choose friends with whom we have things in common with.

I personally believe you have to find piece within yourself. You yourself are a child of God. Nurture yourself, take care of yourself, and rejoice in life itself.

Have you ever tried Yoga, meditating, or Tai Chi? I do Tai Chi almost every morning. At first I thought it was boring and a waste of time, but it's amazing. You really can go to "another" level; a level of meditating, where it's just you and your world. I've found peace through Tai Chi, and it has helped me move things back into perspective. I don't think it matters if you pray or meditate, but I can only get to that "other" level through meditation. I guess its sort of a self-hypnosis.

Have a wonderful peaceful day, Di.
Hannelore

Di, I've been thinking about this throughout the night, trying to figure out how to answer. Like Hannelore, I've read all your posts and empathized with you - I too am childless, not by choice, and I too have experienced that emptiness that will never go away. And I've experienced the kind of friendships you've shared here, where people aren't always so sensitive to what wounds me. It's not an easy road to walk, but I can guarantee you that as long as we hold on to the bitterness and the emptiness and the belief that we "will never be healed", we are doomed to sabotage every friendship, every social activity we try and every attempt by God Himself to help us find our way through to the abundant and meaningful life (and there IS an abundant life for those of us without children) that is ours to live.

You say that "too much is too much", but I have to ask where you draw that line, because from all of your posts, I've seen an emerging pattern - that anything is too much. That any child-talk in your presence is too much. And if that's true, you ARE doomed to a lifetime of disappointment and bitter regret, because I can guarantee it will never stop. Mothers will never stop talking about their children. Grandmothers will never stop bragging about their grandchildren. So what do we do? Avoid all mothers, parents and grandparents? That would deprive us of a lot of opportunities for growth and wisdom and abundance of life.

Nobody expects a childless or any other wounded woman to "get over it", but I do believe (because I've found it myself) that there is abundant life beyond our childlessness. I've managed to find that place where I'm finally okay with being childless, simply because that's my reality so what else can I do, remain bitter and regretful for the rest of my life? That's not how I choose to live my life. I choose to trust that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be in order to fulfill my unique pupose on this earth, that I didn't have children for a reason, and so I actively look for all the silver linings in that cloud (and there are LOTS of silver linings). I mean, if I have to be childless, I might as well find a way to accept that it's my reality, that it's never going to change, so I might as well enjoy it, because the alternative is to remain in that empty bitterness for the rest of my life. Well, that just doesn't appeal to me anymore - I WANT to live, and to live the life I DO have, not forever grieve a life I DON'T have and was never meant to have. So I'm searching for the benefits of being childless (and there are LOTS of benefits once you go looking for them) so that I can live an abundant life, and I also search for the "why" of my childlessness - not the medical reasons, but the spiritual "why", from the perspective of my unique purpose on earth.

My experience is twofold. If I was meant to have children, I would have had children. Since I couldn't have and didn't have children, it means that I was not meant to have children. That means that God has other plans for me, that my life has a purpose other than to raise children. That is our reality. And until we find inner peace, until we move ourselves beyond clinging to the emptiness and pain, and into an active embracing of that reality of who we are - not just childless women, but women with a unique purpose - everything anyone says will always be "too much" and we doom ourselves to a lifetime of sorrow and bitter anger. There's so much more to life than that.

I've managed to move beyond the disappointment and empty aching (it's still there at times, but I refuse to let it govern my life now) to find that being kind to others and being happy for others and being there for others in unique ways that mothers can't be helps to fill the void and helps to make my childlessness more meaningfull.

This probably doesn't help you with your current friendship. My experience is that people talk about what makes them happiest and what makes them saddest. The Golden Rule is still my rule of thumb, giving to others what I would want them to give to me - and what I want most from others is a listening heart and compassion for what I'm going through. While I don't always get that from others, I do find it gives me joy to give that listening and compassion to others, even when it's painful for me to do so. I believe that ultimately we are happiest when we are kindest toward others. Kindness often comes at a cost; despite the constant "child-talk", underneath all that, your kind and giving friend sounds lonely. Sounds like she needs a true friend, someone who loves her just the way she is, not just for what she can give.

Just a postscript I thought while doing housework. My Mom had four children who adored her. We spent as much time as possible with her, cooking, cleaning, listening, etc. And yet, no matter how much we did for her, no matter how much she knew we loved her, she was still lonely, and very terrified that she would die all alone in some lonely nursing home. I think that fear is much more prevalent than we can imagine - we think that as childless women, we have the monopoly on the greatest possibility of dying alone, but not so, unfortunately. Some of the loneliest, wounded and frightened people I know are women who have children...I think we all need each other's love and support to get through life. I still think kindness toward others is the best way through...it's the whole ripple effect thing again - we really do reap what we sow....

Ladies, you've given such lovely, heart-felt responses for Di. Thank you.

I believe all of us are given a purpose and gifts to live that purpose.

Di, you obviously have been given a purpose with your soap business and the gifts to be successful. I'm sure you chat about it with your friend while the two of you are working. I'm just playing the devil's advocate a little bit, so hang with me.

Do you think it's possible that your friend thinks you talk about your business too much? Or, do you think that being self-employed is something she would be grateful for?

She has kids, you would love to have them. You have a business. She may love to be self-employed.

I guess I'm just trying to share that all of us have different lives, very different in many aspects. We need to rejoice with those who rejoice.

I know this isn't the same, but are you willing to mentor kids at a local orphanage? If so, this may give you something to talk about when others talk about their children.

My husband mentors a little guy at the local orphanage. He began as soon as our oldest left for college. To this day our oldest jokes that he was replaced by a little orphan boy. This summer he asked Ross if he was picking up two more to mentor since our youngest two are leaving for college.

Please know this post is from the heart. I tried to have children for four years before adopting, then giving birth. I feel your pain. I recall the days and late nights of wondering what in the heck I would do if I never had a family.

I missed this post and I am writing just after posting a little mention to Dotsie on the day her daughter leaves for college.
for a second I thought OOPS...I have mentioned my children.Then I thought this.
My husband is blind... yet he listens to all we explain about what we have seen.I stopped wanting him to come to art galleries .I still go.I share my poems with him and he is moved to tears by some of the descriptions I attempt to capture.We all have areas of vulnerability.
For most of my career I worked with disability.I know the frustration that is carried within a person particularly a
child and the idea of tai chi is a good one.Or indeed a more active sport..acting and dance are also a good forums to access release from hurt.
A friend who talks about ONLY her daughter has a narrow range of interest.Perhaps you pick up on that topic like radar.If the friendship is to thrive keep other topics alive and be interested in them.Does the friend search for you to comment because you close up at the mention of her child.
I feel concern that you may botle up strong feelings and lose her friendship and then suffer needless remorse.
I may sound harsh...I dont mean to hurt I just want to show from another perspective that this is wonderful world.
Mountain Ash

I too have read every single post on this subject and answered many but something came to mind today. What you are doing Di is trying to censor mothers and grandmothers to not EVER speak of their prides and joy in your presence. That is like spreading the pain, changing its direction from you to everyone whos not childless. They shpuld be able to speak anyway they please, as should you. Maybe when someone begins to ramble on about their kids you sould say right out, immediately, "I prefer not to hear about this as I am childless, not by choice." Then stop and see what happens. Maybe you'd feel better about them and about yourself. I don't know just a thought.

Thank you all for your heartfelt replies. It's interesting to read the thoughts of those who are mothers!

I so appreciate everyone!

Di,
I don't 'know' you but I'm guessing that if this is how you feel, it's probably not going to change. So here's a suggestion. Next time your friend starts talking about her daughter, let her talk a few minutes and then simply say "You're so lucky. I've always wished I had a daughter." And then change the subject. You may be right that your friend has not got a lot of other topics to talk about and maybe you two could try some other subjects. I talk a lot about my kids too, for the very same reason. I don't have a lot of other subjects. But if someone LED me into a conversation about something else, I might follow.

Best wishes