Dads & Daughters

To put it plain and simply --- My husband doesn't get along with our daughters (17 & 15). I guess they all love each other but they certainly don't like each other. I'm putting the blame in my husband's court because he is the parent and they are the children.

I've been at home with our girls for 15 years. I know them very well and, for obvious reasons, know what it's like to be a girl. My husband grew up with 2 brothers and a mother who worked outside of the home. His mom has more of the personality of the typical man.

My husband travels frequently for business while I'm at home maintaining the fort. While he's gone, the 3 of us operate like a well-oiled machine. When he's home, he gums up the works and our family is off-kilter. Pun intended --- he's an engineer who supervises the design of multi-million dollar machines for the corrugating industry.

My husband was a fabulous Daddy to our girls all through their early childhood. But as they both turned 12 and became young women who don't see the sun rising and setting in him, he's got no idea how to relate to them.

I've tried to lead him to water but he won't drink! We subscribe to Daughters newsletter, but he rarely reads it. He's gone to one therapy session with our older daughter and me, but hasn't gone back. When he complains to me about what one of our girls isn't doing right, I tell him to talk to them about his concerns. He grumbles and says, "They won't listen to me." I've told him, "You can keep complaining to me about what they do or don't do, or you can do something about your concerns by talking to the girls with or without a counselor mediating." He just rolls his eyes at me, grumbles, and then goes to his cave in the basement to play on the computer.

I should mention that our girls aren't smoking, pregnant, drinking, or doing drugs. The only body parts that are pierced on them are their ears. They don't have tatoos. They are both excellent students (although my older daughter just got a "C" in Latin V --- horrors!).

Our younger daughter takes all GT classes, rides horses, volunteered at the local nature center, swims on the neighborhood swim team, and is a great kid. Our older daughter took 5 AP classes last year. She's in the Honor Society, is working on her Girl Scout Gold Award, designed the websites for the local Girl Scout troop and community, taught herself the Elvish language, is teaching herself Japanese, is an expert seamstress and knitter and, in my opinion, is a great kid. So, she's moody. So, she hasn't gotten a job this summer. So, she doesn't get up and run to the door when her father comes home. So, she'd rather read than go for a bike ride with her dad. So, what!

My husband says that I'm too easy on our girls. I counter that I'm here day in and day out and that I see a bigger picture of them while he sees only a snapshot. When he sees something that he doesn't like, he zeros in on it and focuses on the negative. When I told him, "There's no pleasing you" he got angry and stormed off to his cave.

Sigh --- I love them all but know that it's not my job to fix my husband's relationship with his daughters. He's a smart guy. He could learn how to relate better with them. But, only if he wants takes the responsibility to do so.

Any ideas from my fellow BoomerWomen?

My SIL is going through the same thing. "What happened to the little girl that loved and cherished me for so many years and thought I was the greatest thing since sliced bread?"

Maybe he's feeling left out. I think girls go through a time frame when they simply relate to mom better. Women understand girls and vice versa.

He might feel like none of you need him since you operate the house fine without him. You know, men can be kind of childish sometimes and just not understand and God forbid, they would be the ones to reach out and be the adult! My husband also works in another state so I've started saving up things for him to do when he's home that require manual labor. He seems to appreciate it and stays busy cleaning the yard up and also the garage. It's fine with me. I don't like heavy work. This might make him feel better and maybe you could talk to your girls about it so they will be aware that he's feeling left out. Just my 2 cents here.

Also Misfire many girls when they are young women in their 20's and away at college grow closer to their dad. Plus when they marry and he walks them down that isle it seems to erase all the past negatives. I speak from experience with my own dad and he and my mom were estranged, not a happy couple like you two....I would ask the girls to understand that daddy is missing his "little" girls....

Yes, I remember going through this too and them mom and I had a little chat. She reminded me about how special my father was and how he just needed a little bit of my attention. That was all it took a little bit of attention again and he was fine.
He forgave easy and we had a great relationship.
Maggie

Misfire, here's a thought...I think one on one is the best way to relate to our children. We do a lot of dividing and conquering in our home. Ross, or I will take one of the kids off for a meal, game, road trip, whatever, and leave the rest behind. It's a perfect opportunity to catch up without the distraction of the other kids.
Do you think your husband might like to do something like that?

Dianne mentioned a good point. HE may very well feel left out.

Thank you for all of your insights.

Here I want to wash my hands of all responsibility and just blame my husband for his crummy relationships and you guys give me ideas. Well, I did ask for it.

Even though my husband frequently comments that he's glad that I'm independent and able to handle our family stuff without him, he's probably feeling left out --- even if, being a guy, he doesn't even know that that's what he feels.

I'll talk to our daughters and ask them to consider asking Daddy to help them with something, asking him to go with them somewhere, or, God forbid, asking his opinion about something. I'm still willing to "lead the horses to water."

Just a point- My Dad was in the military, traveled without the family and he lived his entire middle age years regretting that he was nota part of our lives. I think it really ate him up. He never sat down and spoke to us girls about it but it would eek out at certain times and he was so melancholy about it.

I'm glad I was able to tell him how great a Dad he was just a few days before he died unexpectedly. That was divine intervention. I wish I had him now so that he could enjoy his grandson more than he was able to and we could reassure him taht he was a great Dad.

Lynn

Misfire, I decided to relieve my husband of chores when he visited on the week end and it was the wrong move. He was LOOKING for things to do! I realized then that he truly wanted to work around the house and not have me stepping in to make it easier for him. He loves his home and especially since he lives in an executive apartment all week with no yard, no nothing to work on. I guess it's a guy thing and part of that male pride and ownership. I'm even saving a leaking toilet for him to fix this week end!

I've decided to call a "family meeting" and express my feelings about the upsetness that exists between my husband and our daughters. I don't know what he's thinking and feeling and I don't know what our girls are thinking and feeling. All I know is what I'm thinking and feeling.

I'm assuming that the situation bothers the rest of my family but maybe it doesn't. All I know is that I'm not responsible for anybody else's thoughts, feelings, and behavior except for my own.

My job is not to be the peacemaker even though it's so tempting to return to the ways of my childhood.

I'll let you know what happens. Wish me luck.

In case anybody's interested ---

Family life has improved in my house.

The family meeting that I initiated went well.

My husband expressed his feelings to our daughters and they listened. He was feeling unappreciated and "out of the loop." I don't think that our daughters realized how hurt he was by the way that they talk to him. I made it clear that I will no longer be the "go-between" or the peacemaker. I am very relieved. All is out in the open. Of course, we still have upsetness and disagreements, but at least I'm not taking responsibility for all of it anymore and we have a means for handling it. :-)

Misfire, thank you for updating us. It sounds like your decision panned out for all concerned. Maybe you need to call another family meeting to say how pleased you are that things are finally working out better. It might get everyone thinking and trying a little harder all over again.
chick

Thanks chicadee --- we have had a follow-up meeting.

And, I feel like we're all closer to each other now. It's good to feel appreciated and loved.

It's the best feeling in the world!

Growing up my dad & I fought like cats & dogs!!!
We were so alike it was scary!!!!

When I turned 17/18 our relationship began to get better. Little did I know I would only have 5 more years with him.

Just when we were beginning to relate like adults, I lost him to lung cancer. Of course all those times fighting--telling him I hated him--it all came back to haunt me.

But I did tell him I loved him & was sorry. And he cried.

It will be 17 years this August.

Kay B, aren't you glad you had the presence of mind to do so before he died? Even though some people have to suffer through illnes and finanlly die, I sometimes think it gives loved ones a chance to speak truthfully and affirm the dying. I would hate the thougth of someone dropping dead and not having had a chance to ask forgiveness, or affirm thier lives. I know it happens every day. I guess this is why it's so important to live with right relationships. Then we don't have to worry about any of this crap.

Misfire, I'm so glad everything is out in the open. Are the girls doing things with their dad these days?

My Dad was a wonderful, gentle, loving father, but sadly, he and I barely knew each other during my teenage years. That painful estrangement lasted many years, until I finally wrote him a letter in my late-20's, pouring out my hurt and confusion over what I had always perceived to be his lack of interest and any outward expression of affection. He wrote me back a beautiful letter, explaining things from his perspective, and it opened my eyes to how I had misinterpreted his behaviour (and feelings for me) all those years.

After that heart-to-heart exchange, we grew very close and enjoyed a warm and wonderful relationship with each other. I'm forever grateful for those years with him, but often saddened by all those unnecessarily wasted years. It's difficult not to think about how radically different my life would have been if we had dared to have that heart-to-heart chat much earlier in my life. It's moot, and we can't go back, I am who I am and it's okay; but now I just hate to see the same sort of misunderstandings estrange other daughters from their fathers.

I can identify with your situation Eagle Heart. My relationship with my Dad was "at a distance" throughout my childhood and teens....it wasn't until I was an adult that we became close. He had been raised by his grandparents as his parents both died VERY young and his grandparents weren't "outwardly emotional" people - they were very reserved and didn't hug or show affection. He loved them and felt their love but not in the "physical" way. That's how I was raised by him....and it was something I overcame in my own way as a teen and adult.

But LATE in his life, he became the best hugger around....and we really were quite inseparable. I enjoyed taking care of him and learning all the interesting things there were to know about his early life. He'd never felt comfortable sharing those things before his last years I guess.

It is that "later in life" Dad that I remember now. We were simply the very best of friends and as close as a Dad and daughter could be.....I cherish that.

I found my Dad, after a long search when I was 40 plus. We jam packed a "lifetime lost" into three short years before he passed away.
It is never too late to call Dad and get together to make up for lost time. If anyone is thinking about it? Do it today for tomorrow may be too late!

chick

To answer your question Dotsie --

Although the girls haven't asked for their father's "help" with anything, we're doing things together this week because we're all on vacation together at Fenwick Island. We're not doing much of anything -- swimming, eating out, surfing the Web, but we're doing it together and haven't had any upsetness yet. Today, my husband and older daughter are going up to Philly/NJ together. He has a business meeting in Philly tomorrow and my daughter is meeting up with family friends and joining them on a trip to Cape Cod.

All things considered, life has improved in our family and, I'm thankful for it.

Misfire, keep enjoying your vacation, and most importantly...your family!

Eagle, Pam and Chick, maybe we should start a topic about father and daughters from our generation.

Sounds like a good idea Dotsie....!

It is a great idea, I agree.
chick

Count me in when the topic of our Dads & daughters is started. I've got lots to share on the subject.

I love the stories of getting together with your fathers. I just learned that the father of my three oldest children has a brain tumor. He's never been a father to any of the kids and is a drunk. I doubt there is any chance of reconciliation with him and my kids because I don't think they really want it. He's done too many horrible things to them but I still can't hope that before he passes, he will make the effort to reach out to them for resolution. I think they need that.

Dotsie,
Growing up my dad and I would go to the movies and take me places and go on rides with me. We even went fishing together and I caught more fish then he did . I even went hunting with him one time and he told me to keep my mouth shut and stay behind him with the gun. I never went again . Ha! If I need money he was there . Just some thoughts on that one.

When I was writing Beyond the Tears, which is a lot about dads and daughters, my lovely husband (thank you God) told me that I would have to find a redeeming quality for my father. (who molested me and my brothers and beat his wives and endangered his children) My husband is a former social studies and literature teacher; he said even Shakespeare's most heinous characters had a redeeming quality. I could not come up with a redeeming quality of my father's during his lifetime. However, years after my father's suicide, I found redemption in my character in regards to him. In other words, I stopped wondering what, if any, his redeeming qualities were, and asked myself what might be perceived as my redeeming qualities pertaining to him. As I heal, so may his soul rest in peace. I'm not looking for a medal. I'm just saying that in order for me to have peace during my life-time (instead of waiting until death) I was willing to do the inner work necessary so as not to follow his sad fate. Love and Light, Lynn

[ July 31, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: lynn329 ]

Lynn, I am so proud of you for breaking the chain. YOU GO GIRL! I know you aren't looking for a medal, but you deserve one.

Dianne, is their dad in the same town with the kids? What is his prognosis?

Nancy, hunting? I don't blame you for not going again. Do you still fish? I bet it brings back fun memories.

Misfire....Sounds like once everyone became "aware" of the problem, a solution is being worked at. That's great and I'm happy for all of you.
I'm an only child and was extremely close to my dad, who passed away 2 years ago April. I still miss him terribly, but I do "feel" his spirit with me frequently.
My problem, all of my life, was my mom. Controlling, unhappy and a huge lack of self-esteem, which when I got older I began to figure out was the major problem. She passed away this past Feb. and it was another life lesson for me......I'll have to see if there's a topic on here for Mothers/Daughters and post my thoughts there....Sorry, think I got carried away here.

Terri, you in no way got carried away, so please don't feel sorry. I am sorry that you lost your mother and father in such a short time span. It's hard to talk about fathers and daughters without also incorporating talk about mothers and daughters. Love and Light, Lynn

Thank you, Lynn...I appreciate your kind words. Yeah, since I'm an only child, I kept thinking "And all of a sudden, there were none." But I had a great group of cousins and my children to share the grief with and I journey on.

I didn't want to post over this very important topic so I started another one about OUR fathers and their relationship with US. It is titled fathers, daughters, and husbands.

Sounds like we all have a lot to discuss about our fathers as well as the fathers of our children.
smile

[ August 01, 2005, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Do we choose men who are like our fathers?

Hmmm --- let me think now --- my father was a mechanical engineer who put himself through college, my husband is a mechanical engineer who put himself through college. My mother and father dated for 5 years before they married, my husband and I dated for 8 years before we married. Because of my mother's depression, my father learned about relationships and the importance of talking, because of my depression, my husband has become savvy about relationships and the importance of talking. My father was a reliable loving man who strived to provide a better life for his family, my husband, well, it goes without saying.

Hi y'all, the pattern of marrying a partner who is like our father is a topic I cover heavily in my book. We are not only looking for obvious similarities, but the similarity of emotions we feel when in their company. Here's a passage from my book, and Todd was the man who married me (I was too passive) who was 18 years older than me and JUST LIKE MY FATHER: ***As I was responding to my counselor, I recognized the connection between my real father and my husband. There were obvious similarities between my father and Todd: My father liked country music, guns, and unfiltered cigarettes. There were also subtle similarities: Todd teased me like my father had and stirred sensations in the pit of my stomach, just like my father had. I was confused by Todd’s attention even as I craved affection, the same as with my father.***My now husband is not like my father or step father at all and I am not like the child I was or the young adult who got married to an older man. I noticed that my brothers' first wives are like my mother! Love and Light, Lynn

Hi, here's another paragraph on the topic. Karen was my counselor.***Karen remarked, “You’re becoming more aware of patterns that pertained to your husband and family. It’s not unusual to do things as we saw them done.”
“Oh, I get it,” I responded. “Todd was the perfect pick for perpetuating passivity.”***

What I am heartened about on this thread is that there are many of you who had GOOD relationships with your fathers. I'm glad to hear of these! Okay, off with my head now, I already had my chance as featured author. But this thread obviously struck a chord with me! LLL

My daughter is coming home from a 9-day trip today and my husband is coming home from a 4-day business trip tonight.

Wish us luck as the whole family will be back together again.

My mantra will be: "It's not my job to be the peacemaker ... it's not my job to be the peacemaker."