How many of those with Fibromyalgia take Tylenol??

I would appreciate it if those with fibromyalgia would consider answering the following questions. I have contacts at the Med School who are interested.

Have you ever taken Tylenol?
In what form?
When did you begin taking Tylenol?
Do you take Tylenol now?
How often?
How much?
How long have you had fibromyalgia (with or without diagnosis)?

smile

Yeah, Smile. I take Tylenol. (Tylenol 3 works better - when I can get it) How often? That depends. In a (relatively) pain-free stretch I won't take anything at all. In a bad patch I'll take it everyday - even twice or three times a day - usually with aspirin. Why that way? Aspirin is faster but Tylenol lasts longer so if I use them together I get better results. Hope that helps. BTW, on a scale of 0-10, I won't take anything til the pain hits 4 or 5. 1 - 3 I just ignore. Oh, and I've had it for about 20 years.

Tylenol does nothing for me. I might as well just sip water. I've had FM for at least 10 years that I know of.

I guess I didn't make myself clear. I am trying to discover whether fibromyalgia could result from taking tylenol. Some current research indicates that tylenol lowers the pain threshold of frequent users and I am curious about whether fibromyalgia might result from taking tylenol. As I recall, fibromyalgia began about the time tylenol became an over the counter drug.

Here's the questions again. Maybe if you could copy them into your post and answer them that way it would be easier.

Have you ever taken Tylenol?
In what form?
When did you begin taking Tylenol?
Do you take Tylenol now?
How often?
How much?
How long have you had fibromyalgia (with or without diagnosis)?

I have been trying to get some serious research going here about fibromyalgia. It seems to be ignored in the research community, maybe cause they don't seem to know where to start.
Thanks for your help.
smile

[ April 29, 2005, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Oh, I see where you're going with it now. I don't think Tylenol caused it, but I'll ponder your questions and ship them back to you.

Thanks Unique. I don't think I have Fibromyalgia though sometimes lately I wonder.
What has spurred my curiosity is that recent research has shown that tylenol relieves pain in the short run, but increases it over the long run.
For example, if you have persistent headaches and you take tylenol today it may releive the headache for a few hours, but if the headache returns, the pain will be worse.
That is a common, but little publicized, effect of many pharmaceuticals.
I thought the incidence of fibromyalgia increased drastically about the time tylenol became the analgesic of choice.
Maybe I'm nuts.
smile

Oh, I see where you're coming from. You could be right about that.
I know I wouldn't be a good subject for a study like that because I have atypical reactions to medicine. You know the little 'also reported in .7% of the subjects' part on package inserts? That's me. When I first started having big trouble with pain I only used aspirin - until one day I used so many mg. my ears were ringing so loud I couldn't hear the air conditioning unit in my window; I was afraid of cutting myself and bleeding to death. That's when I started to use Tylenol & aspirin together. It was about 1996. Tylenol helps (somewhat) but it's slow to kick in. Aspirin kicks in fast, but it doesn't last as long. So there you have it.
That sounds like an interesting focus of research to persue; I'd like to hear what protocols you'd use to discover correlations.
I have heard and seen research on pain relievers losing effectiveness for people over time - that people need higher doses to get the same effect - but I hadn't heard of them actually making the pain worse. That's awful! Do you have any links to data where I can check that out? I'd be interested in knowing more about that.
Bioethics - a whole new realm of science for manufacturers to ignore.

Hi, the concept of pain returning after being relieved is called "rebound." I get hissing and ringing in my ears when I take Ibuprophen (sp?) like Aleve and Motrin. I also used to take Excedrin at least 4 times a day, and that caused the tinitus too. I had to find new doctors when we moved here to CO. I told the doctor that I got a diagnosis of FM right before I got the diagnosis of breast cancer. I said that I was better able to accept the BC diagnosis then the FM because cancer can be determined by xrays, etc. and FM seems to be a phantom condition. She said that cancer was actually easier to treat then FM. She was willing to prescribe pain meds on a regular basis and I take them on a regular basis. I've let go of the concerns of addiction because I don't increase the dose, and the meds do not lose effectiveness for me. It works for me. This morning is a good example of FM. I woke up with aches and pains all over, and I did nothing strenuous yesterday. Unique, aspirin can be so corrosive to the stomach and intenstines. It kicks in faster when combined with caffeine. Caffeine tends to make things worse for me. Research ignores FM because it can't be read with a blood test, and because more women than men are diagnosed. Now, if the reverse was true, then money would be spent on research to improve the quality of life for men! LLL

Smile, do you want to share your symptoms that make you wonder lately if you have FM? Please tell your researchers my experience that Tylenol does nothing, because I think that's important too. I thought the drug of choice for FM pain was NSAIDS or ibuprophen (sp.). I think it's a coincidence that the increase in diagnosis came along with an increase of Tylenol as an aid. But, I am no doctor or researcher!

Hmmm. I've been given NSAIDS, too. And THEY don't work for me. AT ALL!! Ibruprofen makes My stomach feel like my intestines are being pulled out through my navel with vice grips. It follows peristalsis and literally makes me pass out from the pain! I forget all about FM because the ibruprofen pain is so much worse! Naproxen did work when I had tendonitis in my elbow - and I was so surprised! I was like, 'hey, this stuff actually DOES do something!' Just not for my FM.

Dear Ladies

Regarding Fibromyalgia, I've been studying up on herbs in order to bring more elasicity and lushness to the skin as well as more suppleness to tendons.

Within the book 'ENERGETICS OF WESTERN HERBS'
Treatment Strategies Integrating Western and Oriental Medicine by Peter Holmes VOL.2 (isbn 1-890029-07-6 )I came across 'CHASTETREE BERRY HERB', Latin name Vitex agnus castus L., OR V trifolio L. (Verbenacea).

It is 'a mild remedy with minimal chronic toxicity' and works on the 'liver, kidney, spleen, lung, chong, Ren meridiens'.

It 'stimulates circulation, dispels wind/damp/cold and relieves joint and muscle pain'.

'wind damp cold obstruction' causes painful joints and muscles, chills and headache.
Chastetree berry helps ARTHRITIS, FIBROMYALGIA, MUSCLE TENSION.

The reason CHASTETREE BERRY HERB helps fibromyalgia is due to its bitter pungent taste, the essential oil and flavonoid content. 'Its an antirheumatic and (its) analgesic action (can be) applied to rheumatic, fibromyalgic, arthritic and gastrointestinal pain'.

It is an expectorant, digestive stimulant, diuretic, spasmolytic and muscle relaxant.

It acts as an arterial stimulant and gives nervous sedation at the same time.

It also is a reproductive restorative and has a normalizing effect on the female system due to its dopaminergic action.

Remember ladies dopamine and seretonin in the brain are responsible for pleasure and the decreasing or dealing with the pain we feel.

As we age our dopamine and seretonin levels drop but they can be refreshed through diet and herbs.

They have just found out that the remedy chastetree berry has progesteronic and estrogenic, (although primarily progesteronic), actions that is why it helps to bring the body back into balance.

The chastetree berry herb has its most powerful effect in a tincture. The book says tincture dosage is 1-3ml.

Note: whenever you take an herbal medicine make sure you check with a pharmacist or doctor if you are on medication because there could be contra -indications. The chemistry of the herb may be in conflict with your medication or create a soup of toxins.

Licorice root is also available to help many problems with its estrogenic action and its energy also moves into all 12 meridiens. It's estrogenic properties help those with spleen/kidney qi deficiency. It also takes a hard edge off of other herbs that you may be taking.

Licorice -latin name glycyrrhiza L., G. uralensis,
Pharmaceutical name is - radix glycyrrhizae. With licorice root you need to study up on it, there are various kinds.

Remember herbal tinctures are more powerful than herbs that are decocted in a cup with boiling water.

It's very important to know your body, the medicines you take, their chemical composition, whether through deep personal study and knowledge or through the help of a doctor or pharmacist.

You also need to know what the combination of different herbs will do.

With thanks to Peter Holmes, this information wouldn't be available as he is the first man to study western herbs going back to the Greek days in history's time and to apply the chinese method of understanding the properties and energetic functions of western herbs.

Have a lovely day ladies.

with care
Leigha

I forgot to mention, there is also volume 1 of Peter Holmes book. It comes as a 2 book set. Volume 1's isbn is 1-890029-06-8.

Life is great when you move with the moment, effortlessly including your dreams and the beauty of surprises... just waiting for you to say hello!

leigha

Anyone with high blood pressure be cautious with black licorice (candy form) or licorice root. It can play havoc with uncontrolled blood pressure

These posts seem to confirm what is available in the literature. Basically that there are many treatments and everyone responds differently to each.
There is a lot of research into treatment, but very little into "Cause."
The questions I submitted were for the purpose of spurring research, not into treatment, but into a possible "Cause."

As I'm sure you all know, pain starts at some point in the body and travels through the nervous system to be perceived in the brain. Asprin which comes from willow bark stops the process at the site of the pain. Tylenol stops it in the brain where it is perceived. When drugs are taken to affect the brain's perception of something, the brain compensates by increasing its own sensitivity to that stimulus.
Recent research reported on mainstream media shows that taking tylenol increases the sensitivity of the pain receptors in the brain thus increasing the perception of pain in subsequent episodes.
That in no way diminishes the importance or the intensity of the pain and that was not my implication. However the news reports about tylenol made me wonder if it might be more than coincidence that fibromyalgia became endemic in America about the same time as tylenol was introduced.
I did a little research and it appears that the condition is much less common or even non-existent in countries where Tylenol is not in wide spread use. That seems to be more than coincidence to me.
I believe it might be the result of the production of isomers, but that's another long story, so...
I thought if I could find enough fibromyalgia sufferers who could trace their condition to Tylenol use, I might be able to inspire some sort of research. Of course it might be difficult because most research in America is controlled by pharmaceutical companies who supply matching money for federal funds, but...

smile

[ May 01, 2005, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Dear smile

What a worthy cause!I'm very interested in regard to the production of isomers and your theory.

Leigha

Leigha, if you just type isomers into a search engine, you may have to wade through a lot of stuff, but you should eventually come to a better understanding of the concept than I could possibly write here.
Basically it is that the body compensates for changes in the brain and other organs whose purpose is to alert the body to dangerous stiumli by causing a more intense response the next time the organ encounters that stimuli. Pharmaceuticals that do not change the stimulus, but change only the body's response to it produce mirror images of the response that they are designed to alter.
I know that is as clear as mud, but it is scientific fact. Read any package insert with a pharmaceutical and you will almost always find the condition that is being treated listed as a possible side effect. That is the result of isomers.
Long boring story.
smile

[ May 02, 2005, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Thanks smile

I'll check it out. I really appreciate the info and the time you've invested in this.

Leigha

Not boring at all, Smile. I didn't study isomers enough (at all?)(darn ol' Al, anyway!) in Biochem. Makes me want to dig out the ol' books - but search engines are soo much faster!!