How can I help this woman?

A woman who is a friend of a friend has been calling me and we are going to do something together tomorrow evening. I've known her for about 5 years, but I have kept her at arm's length because she is an alcoholic and has not admitted it to herself. She was calling me before, sometimes very late in the evening and I could barely understand her words.

I'm just not sure I want to get involved, but if I think someone needs to be honest with her in a gentle way. I don't want to turn my back, either.

I'm sure there are some who are in recovery or have someone close to you who is. What helped you face the truth? I am interested in hearing your thoughts on how I can help her in a way that would be healthy for both of us.

Daisygirl

Daisygirl....I have a very wonderful woman in my life who is recovering alcoholic. My father and fatherinlaw both died because they were alcoholics. I don't drink. Never have. My friend went thru hell before she finally realized she needed help. She lost her husband to divorce, broke her hip, and leg at different times and had no insurance to cover her stays in the hospital and nursing homes because she had no one at home to care for her. Her son's disowned her, and to this day won't speak to her or even write a letter. She can't work because her hands shake so bad when she tries to fill out a job application. She now lives in the same town with her parents, a long way from here, and will be applying for housing for the low income because she has had to use most of her money for her injuries, etc. She refuses to ask her parents for help. I did nothing to try to help her. When she would call me late at nite, I would tell her I couldn't talk to her at that time, but when she was sober I would talk to her because she wouldn't remember what we talked about anyway when she was drunk. I guess what I'm trying to say, is your friend needs to want to get help. There isn't anything you can do for her. I really wish you could.
Lynne

Lynne has said it so well Daisy. My husband finally 'quit drinking' through AA. But AA is a whole program, a way of life. It goes beyond just admitting part of step one. For him, and maybe for most others, alcohal was a means of hiding or not dealing with other issues. By the time he joined AA, i didn't care if he quit or not, i just wanted out. But... 'he's joined AA, you cant leave now' everyone said. He quit drinking, but it took a certain incident 25 years later, and months after that before he realized the distrust and inner anger he carried,was no longer necessary.

I realize she has to want help, but I guess I'm just unsure of where to draw the line. Lynne, you answered when you said you wouldn't talk to your friend unless she was sober.

Ah, the old "drink and dial" thing. My ex has been an alcoholic for years and was doing this to my oldest daughter. She was afraid to tell him to stop calling, drunk. He finally wore down and stopped.

This woman sounds like she's almost beyond helping. Plus, she has to want the help and it doesn't sound like she does. I would stop answering the late night calls, unplug the phone so it doesn't wake you. She isn't your responsibility.

My best friend is an alcoholic and I will speak to him any time, drunk or sober. He knows I don't approve of the drinking so speaking with him doesn't mean I'm condoning it. Our friends need us to love them, unconditionally, drunk or sober. It is also important that they don't feel alone in the world. I think sometimes, they need to speak to people who are not alcoholics (especially if they're in AA).

Bluebird, that is just like you to have a wise kind answer. All the answers here are good ones but I have to agree on not answering the phone late at night. These calls probably upset you a little and make it hard to sleep as you think about the conversation in your mind after you've hung up. Eventually it will wear on your nerves too Daisygirl but I understand you not wanting to totally put her off. Just do what you can and hope she decides she's ready to heal herself.

My friend has never called later than 10 pm. And that was only once.
It is hard, though, having a friend wo always seems to be making their life worse and worse. You feel so helpless.

I have no alcoholic friends they couldn't stand my preaching after awhile and left me for greener accepting pastures. I alway unplug my phone at night once I am done working so I can get much needed rest and you never know, here in Las Vegas (drunkland) people get stupid drunk and dial wrong numbers, sheesh its a menace.

I'd like to add that by letting her call you at night it's giving her the "green light" that you are okay with it. Once she sees she can't get through she'll get the message that it's not okay.

hello!
i'm new here and in recovery, coming up on 6 years. i was guilty of the "drink and dial" for many years and most of the time didn't even remember that i did it.

i got sober when i was ready, after many years of knowing i needed to. friends and family let me know how they felt more than once and it only angered me and made me feel ashamed so i'd avoid them. it took me finally tiring of that lifestyle to do something about it.

now i mentor women in recovery through a program called Women for Sobriety (womenforsobriety.org). it's heartbreaking to see women come into the program and relapse, but i know i can only provide them with the tools and they have to do the work.

i think it's a good idea to tell friends and family how you feel when dealing with an alcoholic. you can't change them but you may be planting a seed and it can help them in the future.

it's nice to be here!

Deb, welcome to the forum! I appreciate your input. I've tried to be patient, but when this lady comes back from vacation she plans to get a dog and that is when I'll have to tell her PLEASE do not get a dog, you cannot handle the needs of a dog!

Again, welcome!

Daisygirl

Daisygirl,

Before you tell her, may I make a suggestion? (hope you dont' mind)...

Ask her if she minds if you are brutally honest with her. And that you MEAN very honest but out of love for her. It may hurt, but you must say what you feel is right. And she can take what she needs and leave the rest.

Have to put my two cents in here.
You can be brutally honest over and over again with an alcholic, and they still will do whatever they want, when they want, and not care about what you are trying to do to help them.
They have to be ready to start living a different life. Meaning no alcohol.
My friend had to hit bottom before she finally realized she had to change her life.
Some people aren't that lucky, and never get out of their "alcohol fog."
My relaying this is because I lost my father and fatherinlaw to alcoholism, and it's not a pretty to sight to watch.
You can give them all the advice, love, anger, and pity, and they will still do whatever they want.
Daisygirl.....I hope you can talk your friend out of getting a dog. Good luck!
Lynne

Di you are right - I will try to get her permission before I talk to her. The thought of her having a dog depending on her concerns me tremendously.

Lynne, my father was an alcoholic also and he died from cancer, but his death may have been prevented if he hadn't covered up the pain with booze.

It's really sad to watch her spiral downward, but this lady I do not consider a friend, because I've kept her at arm's length since she's had her problem since I've known her. She is very lonely and probably depressed, but she thinks she drinks because she's lonely, but really, she's lonely because she drinks and normal people shy away from her. That's why she wants a dog. She wanted Asia, my foster dog, but I convinced her that she is an active dog and wouldn't do well in a condo.

Daisygirl

It's so hard to watch others spiral down in addictions and not be able to do anything. I agree that people don't do anything until they are ready - which can be so frustrating to those of us who care. I have a brother who is homeless on and off due to his drinking and drugging and it breaks my heart not to be able to help him. I don't understand why he keeps choosing that lifestyle but her does.

I still think it's a good idea to say how you feel, with care and compassion and kindness. You never know the seeds you may be planting.

Question: Can you pray with her?

I certainly will if she will allow me to. When I have this conversation with her, I will also pray before.

The truth is that until someone is willing to accept the help offered, there is no help for them...Its sad but some of these poor people are just lost causes. I suppose the trick is to know when thats true and whether or not our own persistance can change the outcome or if we're wasting good time that could be given to someone wanting our help...I applaud you for trying.

[ December 23, 2005, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Daisy, prayer is the best thing you can do. That puts it in God's hands and then you know your efforts are blessed.

Deb, will you see your brother at Christmas?

Chatty, I realize my conversation with her may not open her eyes at all. My main concern is that she wants to get a dog and I'm concerned for the welfare of the animal.

Daisygirl

Oh brother just what some poor animal needs. Hopefully you can talk her out of it, messy, smelly, expensive etc. Those reasons though not especially true may diswade her....I hope so.

[ December 29, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

My ex- is an alcoholic and my son, 19, is a drug and alcohol addict who has been using on and off since he was 8. He's currently in jail.

And I love him. And I have seen progress. Ironically, he's also seen progress in me.

It's a fine line to love/like the person and hate the disease. To say, lovingly and kindly that you can't support someone in getting a dog and wish them well. To set boundaries that say, no, you cannot call me after you have been drinking, but please call any time you are sober.

I pray for my son and ex-husband all the time. I also keep working on myself and the things that I need to do to improve my own life.

As Di said, take what you like and leave the rest. (I love that saying!)

Guess I was thinking only of the poor innocent dog and what it might have to go through being owned by someone who can't seem to care for herself yet. I am the one that usually has to pick up the pieces of these abused, neglected animals and believe me it isn't a pretty sight so forgive my less than fuzzy concern about the addicted person here.

Chatty, IMO, a dog should not be with a person who cannot care for herself. I will do everything in my power to disuade this woman from getting the dog. For one thing, as long as people are not truthful with her she will continue her behavior. I promise I will be gentle and kind.

Daisygirl

Daisygirl, Thanks for caring for both the dog and the woman -- what a nice person you are!

If what you say to her doesn't make a difference (and I am hoping it does), you can feel good knowing you did what you could.

Blessings

ChattyLady, I feel as you do. I rescued the most beautiful solid black Lab pup about 2 weeks ago and the whole ordeal ended yesterday. She belonged to a drug and alcohol addicted woman that couldn't care for her child much less the dog. It became a control issue, but the happy ending occured yesterday when my friend gave her a $500.00 cashiers check for the dog. My friend now has 21 dogs and cats! She does live in the country. We had a celebration lunch today. LL

The lady who wants the dog went to visit her son over the holidays and he had a 6 mo. old black lab. he-he-he........ God is good! She is rethinking the dog thing and realizes now how much work it would be, especially since she lives in a condo. I reinforced that fact and other bad things about having a dog.

No worries here....
Daisygirl

Hi Dotsie
Yes, he did show up at my brother's home. I was surprised and it was good to see him, as I fear he won't live much longer the way he lives. It was hard to see how much he has deteriorated. He looks so rough - no teeth (lost his choppers), rough skin and so skinny. I'm glad he came.