It has mine. I have a close, close family member with schizophrenia. This has been so since I was the age of 13. It has caused much pain, confusion and frustration to me and my family for many years until we had the situation under control.
In my case, my family member lives with a caretaker and has a fiduciary to oversee her trust fund which she lives on. It was a great thing to have a trust fund in this case of she would be in state hospital. She will not take her mediation and goes off and on them which is hard for everyone but as she has become older, she is easier to reason with.
Voices, when I was a child I had to try to understand how someone heard voices and listened to them. It was very, very hard to loose this family member to the disease which is what happened. Although she is safe and can be visited, she will not stay medicated enough to have a real relationship. Also, as a child, I was worried I would "catch it," and went through many years of stress over that alone.
Does anyone else want to share if they have had mental illness touch their lives?
dancer9

yea its a tough one carring for someone thats mentalie ill can couse all sorts of strange problems.

Then there is the weighing up of not taking stuff personalie becouse its due to their illness and balancing out your owen self-esteem. If you get to talk of the situasion and its painfull or ongoinlie painfull then the advice one gets is just "leave them" no one should have to put up with that!. this i struggle with becouse in a sences its dooming everieone thats mentalie ill to be dumped out of relashionship pronto. wearby its obvouse that if someone is mentalie ill then at times they aint gonna be in their right mind and say do or behave in strange and or hurtfull ways. So carring or being a partner of someone who is mentalie ill can be verie isolatting becouse you get left with no one to descuss the stuff with becouse of the predijices to your partner and to oneself. i think their need be a diffrent yardstick to mesure behaviour towards a partner when they are mentalie ill. what peoples tolarances is or abilitie to cope varie diffrentlie. that when i think the old support groups come in handie thers nuthing as good as peer sharring for the partner themselfs becouse of identificasion


i come back to this if i may i gotta go wash the hair die outa my hair

I think America lacks in caring for the mentally ill. Many end up homeless and the violent ones are turned loose on society to kill or harm the public. Just spoke with a woman whose son is mentally ill and violent and the state is turning him loose in a few months when he turns 18 and she is scared to death for herself and others. He tried to kill her.

That said, I have always felt my father was a little "off" mentally and knew it and tried to push it off on me. Always told me whenever he disciplined me that I was mentally ill. Very difficult to grow up thinking that about yourself. So yes, it did affect me deeply.

Why is that? My mom was similar to that. She always thought I was mentally sick. Maybe I was. I do know that I was the last child and by the time I was a teenager, I think she was just plain tired of raising kids and wanted me to leave. So I did. I worked in a private psych hospital for 8 years at night (10pm-7am). What a trip that was! I finally had to leave for fear of losing my own mind. Fortunately, I was making a move 60 miles up the coast and I think it saved my sanity....well, somewhat. The only claim to mental illness that I had was a very serious post-partum depression after my only child was born. Within 6 months it became a post-partum psychosis and I was hospitalized. It was a terrible time to get back on my feet. Of course, we're talking 1975 and the antidepressants were not so good back then, so I just walked around zombie like for months which made it worse.

Being bipolar affects me nearly every day. I'm constantly on the watch so that I don't do or say something that will make someone suspect something. I'm very open with all of you. But, I'm not with others. Not even close family members. My husband knows, of course, and my middle daughter, but not my oldest or my youngest. Or, maybe they do, if my daughter has told them and just said, don't discuss it with mom. I don't know. My mom knows, but my inlaws don't. Unless my husband has told them, but I don't think so.

None of my writing community know. And, it's difficult to explain away my cycles. I have times when I can write and times when I can't. Right now, I'm depressed. When I'm depressed, I don't get on any of my forums and I don't socialize as much. As you've probably noticed. My doctor tells me this is a pattern with me and it always happens around the holidays so to ride it out and wait for the new year and not let it bother me. I still get manic sometimes, and it really throws me for a loop. Have you ever been manic and still depressed? Really messes with your mind.

I take my medications regularly. I don't mess with that. I know how important it is. And because of my very strict schedule of medication taking, it restricts our activities. When I went to the writers conference last weekend, I had to carry around a very large pill carrier with a pill alarm set to the various times for me to take my pills. (I kept it in a tote bag) I felt conspicuous, but hardly anyone noticed I think. No one mentioned anything.

When in public, sometimes I feel "exposed" with a big sign on my head that says BIPOLAR. There's such a stigma attached to the disorder. Most of it negative. There's been news coverage about people with Bipolar who've disrupted airplanes and become violent, and been shot, and it just hasn't been good news.

I shared my diagnosis with one friend and she's never called me back. I've tried getting in touch with her and no response. I have shared with another friend and she's been very open and understanding, so for that I'm grateful.

I was able to tell you, my boomer sisters because you didn't mock me, or judge me. For that I thank you. I'm afraid others in my "real life" won't be so kind.

So, for now, my Bipolar continues to affect my life as my secret. For now.

The only claim to mental illness that I had was a very serious post-partum depression after my child this is my first or big part in depression for the same reasons ladie-jane, think post partum started it then some seriouslie damaging life experinces got in the way of life when the child was 3 mounths old. T

The combinasion was disastrise, i wasen't hopitalised and the care of the child was still left up to me alone, with some help from communitie childcareing organisasions. My partner at the time wasen't a help and in fact made a lot of things worse as my depression was more like an inpatsont hinderances to them.

I don't know if once the brains chemicals have been seriouslie out of balances they never reallie go back to being fullie in balances, but i still finding myself getting depressed from when the light fades, about september in this part of world untill febuarie, then the light gets brighter and my mood lifts. Its that SAD thing with light levels. well i think i always gotten a bit blue over winter and since i was seriouslie depressed i am a bit more humble and take care of my self better in relashion to my mood especiallie if its going low, so i more liklie to go get help i need if i think its needed.

vickie i also wonder why ya onlie get the negative side of mental health being bleated all over the news and media, it sells stories but has a load of people afraid of the mentailie ill. Some people may be violent as di was saying but not all by any means but still listening to media hype one would think it was all mentalie unwell people. i don't like that attitude as well. like di i would love people getting the best type of treatment avalible to them spacificallie for their symptoms and condistion. was it decartes who said one could tell how civilised a culture was by how well they tended to their mentalie ill. Thats not just your countrie i'm talking about i more refairing to this one (i let you ladies comment on your owen countrie lol)

i have been remanticalie involved with someone mentalie unwell and not good at taking their medicasion or looking after themselfs and all i can say was its an experinces i aint gonna go near again, ever. Unwell or not the indivduel gotta take some steaps and responcibilitie towards keeping their behaviour level and within appropriate boundries, if they trulie can't be responcible for the symptomes unmedicated, then this is their onlie area. I have seen and knowen the diffrences appropriate medicasion and interventions make to somene unwell and its astounding.....well worth it if its at all pleasable to have it taken care off.

I was just reading an article on post partum psychosis. Very scary.

Vicki, I can't believe your friend turned her back on you. I gave my book to my next door neighbor in TN to read (she asked for it) and she never spoke to me again. A lot of weirdos out there.

I think it's wonderful that all of you are able to open up here and share because it does make a difference to others.

It's so true that people get afraid of anything that's out of the realm of their own little world just as you've all said. How can a friend be a true friend if they turn their back on you when you reveal something that is only life as it is...for you. People are afraid of mental illness or domestic violence largely due to ignorance and not really wanting to know. God help them if it happens to them. I was hospitalized more than once. I was a total mess in those days. But looking back now I think I was a very depressed child and teenager. Peoples opinions were a lot different in those regards in the 60's and 70's. But it's sad to see that those mindsets still exist everywhere today. People can complain about their aches and pains but somehow feel that the mind and brain are somehow not related to the body??? Kinda strange thinking when you see it like that!

LADIEJANES QUOTE. People can complain about their aches and pains but somehow feel that the mind and brain are somehow not related to the body??? Kinda strange thinking when you see it like that!END QUOTE
yea it is strange when put lik that LJane. its the it might be catching thing, maybee, like you catch mental unwellness or disabilitie.
di if it onlie cost you the price of that one book to find out that frend wasent a frend then you still got of lightlie girl. Knowing your true frends such a blessing and a godsend. i was just posting elswear about lossing a couple frend's due to diagnosis of my son, it hurts...but its bearable. I think i gotten off lightlie ignorances or awkwarness aside, if they don't make it back to me and i have lost a frend then i gratfull to lose them now and not latter.

post partum psychosis is very scary, thing is and i relativlie sure of this that if its gotten earlie enough and treated appropriatlie it cuts dowen the severitie of the symptoms by loads. I don't know if LJ agrees with this or not? Sometimes women don't know, sometimes, gp don't know, sometypes psykes do know but don't treat it right, shame when it could all be diffrent.
still no more kids for me anyway lol.

i was at the course as i posted about in kids tonight and heard parents sharring and talking bout stuff for first time, and i came away thinking it helped them, it helped me just by their openess so i agree with ya DI people opening up may be brave but look at benifit it can have.

Lady Jane,
I was so sorry to hear about your troubles taking care of your illness! You sound like you approach it in a very, very healthy way. A mental illness is just an illness and not a definition of anyone! If one takes their medicine they live their lives like anyone else who needs medicine, ( like myself,) to live their lives!

There is no, or should be no judgement of anyoone with a mental illness. Although I have had a family member who refuses meds, I do know, through her, a number of people who are responsible with their meds and are accomplished, kind and completely "normal," if you compare them to others who do not have the illness. Actually, I think some of those with Mental illnesses can be SMARTER than those without as they try to make their life work and learn so much about life and themselves as well as others.
Congratulations to you, Lady, for being a good person, period, not one with an MI!
dancer

Post partum depression. What is that like? If it is not too sensitive a subject, I'd like to learn a bit.
dancer

Celtic,Would you mind sharing a bit about how post partum depression can look like? I ask because of someone I know. I would like to learn a bit about it and someone who has had it is a very good source. If it is too sensitive a subject, please ignore my question!
dancer

Boy, have I stories to tell, but I don't feel free to here. Vicki, I so need to speak with someone like you, who has been through it. This just isn't the place to do it.

Vicki, your friend was not a friend at all, but ignorant!
You are a shining example of how one lives with bipolar in a good and responsible way! I can't imagine how you must have dealt with it initially but you seem to have your head squarely on your shoulders perhaps better than my own!

I think it's awesome that you are med compliant and I know how much it can hurt a family when one will refuse meds!

Again, you are a great example and a perfect "Vicki," in this world, your illness does not define you in any way. You are you and many of us have illnesses we must take responsibility for are the same as you. There is no difference if it is body or mind, we must take care to take our medications, (myself included,) in order to live our lives. I have to take pain meds because of my injury to get out of bed, if I don't I am a pain to my family and to everyone else and I would loose the life I have. I consider what I have to do the same as anyone who has a mental illness and has to take those med's every single morning no matter what. Diabetes, all sorts of meds are like this.

Someday we will see a change in the way others view mental illnesses, for life can be chaotic and a mess when people don't take other meds that are needed to live their lives.

Cheers to Vicki!
dancer

You're right, Dianne,society wants to ignore mental illness, push it out of their sight, and not validate it at all. This is a major problem. People are ashamed of problems when they feel them emotionally and are afraid to seek help! If we continue to make those with mental illnesses feel like they are "crazy," and that we want them to "get away from us," we are adding to the problems of this country.
So, some are ill in their minds, so what? That means medicine like any other illness does! We are oh so quick to help those who have diseases or illnesses we can see on them but we are not so quick to come the aid of a mentally ill person! Why is this?

Mentally ill people are hurt because many of the "evil ones," portrayed in movies and on television are said to be evil because they are mentally ill! Many mentally ill people walk amoung us or are C.E.O.s!

The statistics say that an abused child is more likely to be a C.E.O. than a criminal! This is fact! Still, society thinks that if we even come CLOSE to a person who is mentally ill, then WE are ill as well!

YOU were not ill because your father was any more than anyone else. YOU grew up to achieve great things just like many children who grow up with parents who are mean to them. Many would think that if you did not come from a "perfect family," you would be "messed up." But, you are not, any more than a whole lot of people like yourself.

I get frustrated, society is so ignorant on this subject. We need more education on mental illness, more documentaries and more biographies to help people understand and find compassion.

dancer, off her soap box now.

I'm pretty sure that my brother (sib #3) has mental illness issues that are not being dealt with. My sister and younger brother agree. Bro 3 is 48 and still lives at home with Mom and does NOTHING. Lies about jobs and missed opportunities constantly. Charming pathological manipulative liar. Rarely even leaves his room.

Mom refuses to see just HOW DYSFUNCTIONAL her son is. Because he's not a threat to anyone -- he doesn't acknowledge having a problem and Mom just ignores it -- there's nothing that can be done.

What this has done to my family is -- I'm the only sibling who will set foot in the door for more than 5 minutes. Sister will drive to Mom to pick her up but won't stay a minute more than necessary. Other brother will not go near Mom's house, period. It's made a huge rift that has been widening for over 15 years. Very sad.

And now Mom seems to be entering early stage Alzheimer's, and the rest of us are afraid what happens next.

Meredith,I'm sorry about your mother and the problem your brother is. My early education was in psycology and I can tell you that your brother's behaviors fit the profile for a few personality disorders. I can't tell which he has, but I'd bet he has one. NPD, BPD, many come to mind.

I guess you will have to decide how to help your mother now that she is having problems? I'm so sorry about that.
Do you have any ideas as to how to deal with it?

It can be so hard when one does not take medication and take care of their illness like your brother... I happened in my family and blew it apart as you say yours has been. One thing that can help is if you and your siblings get help together from someone as my sister and I did. That way you can preserve a sibling relationship and together you can do more than alone. Again, it helped my sister and I to get some therapy together so we could deal with my family member who was ill and not have our relationship torn apart. It was one of the best things we did.

Do you have a sibling that will try to take some sort of action with you?

dancer

Definitely not bi-polar. Can't say for sure on other possibilities.

Dad died in 1979, and Mom has been saying for over 20 years how she wants to sell the house and move to Florida. We've offered to go with her to find a place on more occasions than I can count. Every time she comes up with an excuse which is usually centered around "What would Philip do?" Hmmm, if she moved ... then my brother might have to find a job?? What a concept.

Three of us are at wits end because Mom refuses to do anything. The co-dependency polka with Philip.

Summer 2006 my youngest brother, his wife and 2 kids from Florida and me from Cali flew in for Mom's 80th, which we celebrated at my sister's house in Connecticut. Mom and I stayed a week, and then I took her back home to Long Island.

Philip was sooo charming my entire time at Mom's. I'm guessing he was trying to get someone on his side because the other two sibs completely hate him. If you didn't know him, you might not realize just how much manipulation was going on.

I did fall into a depression several decades ago for several months and underwent intensive counselling weekly while attending university. No drug treatment but it took enormous willpower to get out of bed to face each day. Looking back,...I must have been a robot to complete coursework.. THere were a number of personal issues which took a long time to sort out. Like years.

I never told my parents I underwent counselling until my brother threatened suicide. (See below.) I just wanted to be left alone during depression and work out my personal demons with the counsellor without interference/influence from family. So I told no one in my family at that time...and I still think it was best I have my privacy to "heal". I did tell a few close friends who were supportive.

Anyway, no question at least for me, the body symptoms are connected depression or at least denial of something quite wrong. When I psychologically deny something significant, my body will respond: I fall alseep too often (like literally not wanting to be awake to reality).

My brother did threaten suicide (in high school) and underwent some counselling. He in my opinion, is lucky since he refused long-term depressants. I'm actually glad for his sake he did. It's tough for him to have 5 strong sisters and a strong-willed mother. He bought and lives in his own home, etc. ..a good thing to live separate life from his demanding family. He's always had a full-time job ..and it pays well. He manages his money well. So it's a good base for him to move forward. I'm glad for him.

So meredith, I can guess what your family must be going through. It's serious counselling and self-analysis that your brother needs to cut out his co-dependency. Drugs will not be the solution. The sad thing is that it might take the death of your mother...for him to wake up if he doesn't wake up sooner to make change for himself.

One of my brothers-in-law, his brother, died of drug overdose. Behavioural problems and minor crime meanwhile his 2 other siblings were golden stars...university degreed, good jobs.

I also have a cousin who's husband committed suicide by jumping off a major road bridge. We went to funeral. Cousin has 2 children. Yes, I do believe it affected the children who lost their father in this manner. Suicide of a family member has a certain stigma also. I see a noticeable contrast of these 2 children in their psychosocial development both around the same ages as my niece and nephew.

Simbiotic behaviour between Mother and child (adult) is all around us. As people become more independant they strive for their identity.If knocked back even by kindness a person can remain dependent. It is possible to share a home if clear bounderies and personal space is adhered to.
I believe everyone should reach their potential and it saddens me when it does not happen.
Even quarrelsome and antisocial relationships can be simbiotic... one feeding from the other.
Mountain ash

Regarding the question by dancer of what post partum depression looks/feels like...as in anything, it would be something very individual, different circumstances, etc. Everyone gets a huge hormonal jolt after giving birth. For some, I believe it's worse for whatever individual reason. Also, I believe that much depends on the person's personality and background. For me, the last half of pregnancy was the happiest moments of my life. I was very content and calm, although feeling the normal concerns of what giving birth would be like. But I was just a happy mama at that point. I was only 21 and had been in a volatile marriage for 3 years already. Still, the impending birth seemed to make us both happy and serene. Life seemed to be good. After the birth which was long and traumatic, I had an instant change. In the hospital I cried continuously, felt incapable of taking care of this sweet little baby and just feeling like I was going "crazy." My mom, unfortunately, who lived only a mile from me had the belief that one needs to take care of their own child and should not look for help. It was her belief that you leave people alone with new babies for the bonding process to take hold. Weird. I so needed her those first weeks to just be available and supportive. But she refused. I was exhausted and terribly depressed. I cried when the baby cried and when she didn't. My husband came home one day and found me sitting on the floor in the middle of dirty laundry having a total meltdown. Three months later in the photos of my daughter's christening my arms and neck were totally bruised where he beat me whenever he drank or something wasn't "just so." It was a terrible time of life. I was ashamed and wouldn't tell anyone how I was truly feeling or about the abuse. I hid in my apartment every second that I could. I began to hear voices telling me how awful I was as a person and that I couldn't do this or that. We moved to the city shortly thereafter. When my daughter was 6 months old I was working full time. Things had gotten so out of control with my thinking that one day I had a total collapse during my work day. I don't remember the details of how or why. I know that rescue took me to the hospital. They found that I had been cutting my arms for months. I went through my first months of hospitalization then. My mom, who was never there for me, actually took the baby in during this entire time. I was a wreck off and on for 5 years, always on heavy medication, sometimes suicidal, hearing voices and labeled with every possible diagnosis out there. What finally happened was that I started talking about the abuse from my grandfather as a young child. I also obtained a divorce from my husband on the ground of cruel and abusive treatment. Unfortunately (??), I remarried him 13 months after the divorce was final. Actually, his act was cleaned up, he went to seminary, became a pastor and we lived a wonderful marriage until his affair in 2001. Anyway, I only skimmed the surface obviously. There were so many...too many details woven through this. I wrote a manuscript about this experience in 1989 but truthfully, I hate the story. It just exposes too much for comfort for me. To this day I still take an antidepressant. There are times when it needs to be increased and other times I try to live without it. However, I get to about 3 months before I need to get back on it. It is thought that there's a permanent chemical imbalance in my brain. It's part of me now, part of my history and my current everyday life. I feel fine unless I stop. I really didn't feel as well until the newer antidepressants were introduced in the 80's. They were a godsend to me...drugs that really do have you feeling human again and don't sedate. Fortunately, my daughter has had none of the problems that I had. I was always so afraid of how she might be affected.

thanks for asking dancer.
LadieJANES covered it well genrillie and in good deatail with her owen storie. I'v points in common with ladie jane so some things are more liklie to couse similare reactions in most people.


Babie born hormones started shifting. I had been physicallie unwell in pregnacie but thought over all goal ie having a babie was worth more than the pain. I had pelvic arpiothipie,sp!! just means ligaments round the joints streach as they should do but streached too much alowing bits of static bone to move about too much ie i sneezed and dislocated my arm.....I had a c. section, not the most romantic of ways to birth but sertinlie the less effortfull opption lol. After birth my demestic situasion got unpridictible, unstable and strange. i also had a high court case for visitasion writes to a child created within a past relashionship. it went to high court took a yr for date to come through and i knew i was gonna lose before i went in but i had to try anyway, if their was one inch chances of seeing that kiddie again like manie parents i would have taken it and i did take it. The court case was vicouse, i lasted 3 days in witness box, it melted me mentalie. The reason for this and the high presure and why i knew i was gonna lose became aparent in judes opening remarkes. The case itself changed a bit of legalitie in this part of the world. My demestic situasion became so riskie and unpridictible that i had to leave just before the court case so was stuck with frends and womans aid during the case. All together thats quite a big handfull of stuff within the time that was ment to be classicalie ideal, tender soft and safe. It wasen't on any counts.

I felt i had to leave the countrie, i went to scotland for a bit. Oh i was also studing a masters degree and it came to disertasion being written up so i continued to do so in scotland. The studie and the child save my life at the time as much as it gave me lot of presure and was stretched carring and doing, still recovering from the c section and the PA, life was physicallie and emotionalie painfull and uncertine.

i started having useless thoughts, not good enough thoughts but was shaking them off and kept going. I became suicidale. not being compulsive i had some type of responcibilitie to the child and consider i would live it to the best of my abilitie and make provisions practicalie and financilie for him for when i was dead. Can you imagine lol. dieaing would be most productive thing i could think of doing but if i took care of things then i rest that i had fullfilled my oblicasion, yea i know warped thinking but thats the nature of this bleeding thing. To top it all i didn't conmsider anything wrong with my thinking but thought it was best plann. Cut long storie short i became more detached from myself in real terms while managing to keep uo with my practical stuff ie studie and babie care. I went back to belfast at a point before returning to scotland a mate i chatted to ordered me to doc's and pointed out how strange and unlike myself i was and how not right my thinking was and they onlie knew some of the stuff.

anyway i responded quite well to antidepresent at lest enough to have me relise killing myself wasen't right, i wanted back home to god. I had to stay heer and live out my oblicasion and responcibilitie to the child, that was the right thing to do. So i did and heer i am, long haul from their too heer, some more medicasion changies a big lump of humilitie and i made it through ok. I did get smellie and not/didn't take care of myself, i was still in physical pain and about all i could do was feed clean and be over protective of the child.

This is a blessing as some mums reject their kid, i had no other choice, if i didn't do it for him he would have diead. I do still get more dowen in dark of winter, yes its winter now lol. i also like LJ think brain chemistrie been altered as well as longterm effects of domestick stuff still takes its toll. The pain of not seeing other kids still tough at times. Stranglie and ironicallie situasions have occured thats gonna bring me back into contact with that other kid, i looking forward to it and dreading it at same time, but thats a diffrent storie. My sons still my world, god had impeakable timming for if it haden't had been for him i would have let go having had no real reason to keep going. The court case and domestick situasion alone would have rock my world to core anyway.

My anger pain depresion focused around my owen neglect and harm not of childs (in fact it was all i knew how to do, he was well but i din't fell like i was doing a good goood job),i had some volentrie organisasions for kids under 5yr olds poped by couple times a week. I had no familie in northern ireland and could barlie keep a frenship going. I lost contact with frends, i isolated. It was later when i was well that one key worker (lisa)told me if i had gotten a wee bit worse they would have taken lucien from me and i been involunterillie institusionalised. She vouched that he was well cared for, i wondered why they make appointments and sometimes come by unannonced lol, i see why now. She took that job (being an accountant by tranning)of becouse she had similare experinces (PPD)He (the child)would have had to be fostered if i had had my responcibilitie taken from me and i belived he was more adiquitlie cared for then, i might have reverted back and killed myself at that time. Taking or leaving a kid with mums a vital steap for social services, a lot of risk with either desision and thats presure for them.

My degrees psycholigy, my masters (msc) in councelling spacificallie in self-harm. i felt sillie not knowing my illness had gottan as bad as it had.

My knowlage motivated me in careing for child for his sake and long term effect it may have had on him. My knowlage didn't save me or it wasen't enough to have me relise i was getting unwell, to degree i had done. Plz be carfull and kind to new mums who look like they aint coping so well, do wee favours for them, let them sleep, listen to them one never knows the potencial diffrences it will make

Oh i forgott i had a big car crash when child was 9 mounths i almost neralie diead in that crash but was left and still have physical problems from then till now. By that time it was hard but i was no longer suicidal, still badlie depressed but still wantting to live. I celibrated in a good way and what a quite joy i had knowing we made it on his first birthday. He's gonna be 4 this febuarie, i'm still making it. ther's not a hugh period of time between then and now so i still take care of myself ok enough and go get help when i need it, i'm proactive becouse i aint going back to weer i had been. but there is a world of diffrences between then and now

big bit of writting afterall, no bullet points lol,but i did leave some of the more hurtfull bits out.

left untreated, sometime even when treated that condistion (PND,PPD)can develop untill the woman is compleatlie delusional, more extreem cases will have woman belive her kid is christ reborn, therfore all and everieone a threat to the kid. The other direction can have woman belive the child is eveil and satan, therfore the woman becomes a threat to kids saftie. Theres also more mid range delusions that aint as extreem as that that can still just having kid neglected, bounding process not occuring all this has mum feeling more guilt more usless etc, becomming a worse depresive cycle.

1 hormones shift alone can do it
2 expectasions of life after birth is never quite how one imagines even when life is ideal, some woman have harder time adjusting to workload and diffrences in her life.
3to much insecuritie after birth can couse it.

any of those factors and or hormonal shifts alone can couse PPD some women get it in small way other in big big way.
the more of the above factors are present in the womans life then the more liklie she is that PPD occures.
All of them can trigger it off indivdualie by themselfs, some women have all of this and don't get it.

like much of the mind and indivduel diffrences, we are all unike who knows how anyone will react for better or worse to anything.
it just goes to show something that we are physicallie desined to do can still couse caose in our lives, even at the most presiouse and joyouse time in life. A lot of woman cover up how they feeling due to guilt at that time in thre lives, trying to forces a realitie that isen't their into place and just pretening its all ok. even if a woman has an ideal life, everiething she ever wants or needed and she can still be looking a bit dowen. It can be just that, a bit dowen, a bit tired. At other times its a bit more seriouse for one reason or another woman find it hard to talk about and express how things are for them. we all get cought up in that new mum thingie, life's wonderfull myth. I don't know just its a seriouse thing and something that takes guts to come to terms about and go looking for help. Some woman aint diagnosed for yrs and therfore go untreated for yrs. Thats a lot of myserie for them their families and potencial difficulties for kid in later life. I worked with one young mum, washed kid picture of happiness in front of hubbie but when he was gone left kid in play pen all day din't bother with it and aonlie feed it 10 minuets before hubbie came home from work, keeping up apperances and pretending that all was great. At the time i had a hard job not judjing her, or mums drinking or drugging to get through this period. If one rembers people aint well, its a reall couse or basis to a bad bad depression pluss some other things throwen in it get easier to understand. Even when mums hurt their young kids. I not justifing this type of treatment of kids and i belive in any instances the kids gotta be protected first and foremost. However i do have a bit more compasion for mums that struggling if i bear this in mind.
now we are the older ladies maybee younger mums look to us for bit of help support becouse of our age and wisdom and life experinces. My frends kids are having kids lol. just something to bear in mind when we meet young new mums.

promise that the wee leacture over lol. good luck being of service, a young mum may need you thats close by.

Celtic, Thank you for sharing your experience. I know it could not have been easy to write about it. I understand well how you suffered and I see you went through a whole lot at the same time you were stuggling with post partum!

It helped me on a personal level in a couple ways. It helps me to understand a young woman I know and it helps me to understand myself in my first pregnancy. It was not known, post partum depression, during the time of my first pregnancy but clearly I was suffering. I have had to battle depression once or twice in my life so I take an antidepressent to aviod any problems every day.
I feel better about myself knowing there is a name for what I suffered so young.

Thank you so much.
dancer

Lady Jane, As I posted to Celtic, it has helped me greatly to read this. It helps me to understand a young woman I know as well as myself many years ago before anyone heard of post partum depression. It was considered very rare and very, very intense when I was young and had my son so if you didn't exhibit very bad behavior, you did not have the illness. We know this is not true now and it helps me forgive my behavior and feelings at the time when I was struggling. It was in the very beginning of the 80's when I had this problem and although I sought therapy, they sighted my childhood as my problem when my problem was clearly, (now,) post partum depression! I wish more had been known then about the subject!

Lady Jane, I know it can't be easy to write about your experiences but take heart that it helped two women that I know of already. I know of a woman showing these symptoms and this will help me to help her as she talks to me about her feelings.

It makes me wonder if it is more present in those with an MI in their family though. I know that I have a close family member with a mental illness as does this friend of mine, the young woman.

For me, one pill, an antidepressant, fixes depression. I am lucky. I hope this is true for this other woman.

Your story shows you to be strong and I admire you for your survival and ability to help others like myself.

Thank you Lady Jane,
dancer

Orchid,
It must be hard to work through depression without the help of medication. I think it's great that you could and would, some time, love to hear how you managed. It would interest me very much.
dancer

It sounds, Meredith,like Philip is most of the problem. If you could find a way to "starve him out," if he does not work, that might be a way.
I know that with my family member, because she has a trust fund, there would be hangers on or family members coming around to ask for money for this or that and take advantage of her,
We decided to get a nuetral party to manage her money so that family or friends could not touch it or manipulate her out of her money. It has worked very well for many, many years! We leave the decisions to this fiduciary and that prevents any arguments, etc...
Could anyone take responsibility for your mother's finances and thereby get Philip out of the picture? Does he live off her money?
You said he did not work.
I relate to your frustration, Meredith, it's so hard to see someone you love weaken and be taken advantage of while feeling helpless to stop it.
Please let me know as this develops how you are?
If you need to talk, please PM me, I'd be happy to listen.
Best,
dancer

DANCER
the other events can add to the degree of PPD or be the last straw so to speek that tips someone into PPD. and again for some they get their via hormones alone.

great to hear you have gotten some self-understanding from all thse stories and that also you can help someone in the hear and now with this type of thingie.

meradithbead NBPD or just BPD is borderline personalitie disorders, with the n its for narcisistic sp! self-loving lol. don't know can't rember or have time at min to read back and see if you said you ggoled it or just mentioned commented on it not being Bi-polare for you brother.

hope you as a familie find some resolve for it all soon

Meredith,
BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder and
NPD is Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
You can google them both for a list of symptoms.
dancer

I googled both of them. Still, not having much experience with mental illness, it's hard for me to put a label on, even though it seems obvious to all that he's just not "right."

Your right,Meredith, he should be seen by someone and diagnosed. It could just be that he doesn't care!
Whatever is wrong, I'm so sorry.
dancer

if having knowlage of his condistion helps you in anyway withn the situasion then it might be usefull, otherwise its onlie a lable you know about but that in itself might not do much. You have good intusion Merbead and trust itif you think something amise then go with your feelingsa on it, afterall you know him well enough.

Apart from cousing trouble with your siblings and hopefullie that being healed in some way. What would you like to see for your brother and you mother individualie. Is it for him to stand on his own two feet, do you think he is capable of such things. Is it he just stop lieing and manipulating. Dose he manipulate just your mother or any familie member he gets close too. Just wonderring how you like to see it pan out in the long run. Is he capible of looking after your mum would you as a familie trust him to do so?
i know questions questions questions lol.

DANCER
what was your experinces with PPD and how you get through it undiagnosed and with no meds. Did you have any understanding of it at the time or did you just feel you weer going crazie or worse you weer just a bad person, due to some of the thoughts that went on or rather can go on?

just inviting ya to share in case your feeling shy,

LADIEJANE
when you look back at that time how do you feel about it now?

Pretty horrendous that the police would be called in for a very depressed/suicidal person. That would be only necessary if the person was physically hurting someone else or destroying property which could hurt a bystander (ie. smashing windows, furniture, etc.)

I honestly see for alot of people, the use of drugs, only for a short-term. But counselling for a longer time period. How did I cope without drugs...I guess in my heart, despite my depression at time, I knew that in my heart, the problems lay in ...becoming an adult, asserting my own identity and independence of my life decisions away from pressuring parents/their expectations.

Drugs probably would have made me lethargic and unable to study...I hear this too much from people who are treated with drugs for temporary/or whatever for depression. To me, that is even scarier.

Just give me an excellent counsellor. And I did have one. Counselling sessions for me was thankfully was free...because she was part of the university's counselling /therapeutic staff for tuition-paying students on campus like myself.

I regretted never using any of the university's fine exercise/sports facilities at all during my 5 years there,...but their counselling staff and their expertise, can be a lifesaver for many students who are struggling to find themselves.

As we all survivors know, the scariest and hardest is taking real action beyond counselling/drugs, to improve/lift oneself up to walk well again.

My son was diagnosed with early onset bipolar disorder at the age of 12. He is now 19 and his current psychiatrist just told me he thinks he has a thought disorder instead of a mood disorder, meaning he thinks he's schizophrenic. We're awaiting neuropsych test results, but he sure doesn't seem schizophrenic to me and his symptoms seem to fall under those of early onset bpd. But docs are extremely reluctant to go with that diagnosis because, I think, they don't know enough about it.

See my blog at www.motherwarriors.blogspot.com

Yes! My son was diagnosed with early onset bpd at age 12. Having a mental illness made him high risk for drug addiction. We tried, but failed, to prevent it. He is now recovering from his addictions and is dealing with his bpd. It's tough, but getting better due to his maturity and sobriety. See my blog about adolescent addiction at motherwarriors.blogspot.com

Motherwarrior,
Thank you for posting about your blog, I can't wait to read it. I'll bet you are full of information and your experiences are very interesting and helpful to others!
dancer

You sound like you are very lucky and very strong! Somehow I picture you like that!
I'm glad you got through that time in the amount of time you did and were able to continue your life!
dancer

Celtic,
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to tell my story. This was so kind of you. It is a long and hard story and I would not subject the forum to it but I can say somethings about me that pretty much sum it up.

I have PTSD, severe. I was a very abused child whose story Oprah Winfrey wanted when it started to come out in my career. I had a record setting abusive childhood but a wonderful grandfather who served as a buffer and example of love for me during it.
I had the best treatment available for it, 12 years of therapy and some of it at Sierra Tucson's abuse program which is one of the best of it's kind. I started having almost no memory of my childhood as I had blocked it out and when I was finished regaining my memory, I had most of it.
I could not have even told you the schools I attended! One blocks out time when they are abused as children and I did so.

I was beaten with almost any weapon, left with bruises and cuts, and this occurred almost daily. I was hit, punched, kicked, almost buried alive and even hunted once like an animal.
Post Tramatic Stress Disorder, PTSD is what most are coming back from Iraq with. It is a complex group of symptoms resulting from severe trauma.

I was a murder witness. I worked undercover with the feds against the KKK. I was involved in trying to change law so that a person could sue their abuser many years later if their memory came back when they were much older. The law only allowed, at that time, three years to sue your abuser or press charges. Now, some states have a longer period of time. A child of 5, for example, cannot be expected to sue their parent in three years, or seven, for that matter! We were trying to change law here in Arizona.

When I was a child I witnessed murder and ended up testifying about it when I was an adult. This brought up some very bad memories and then memories followed those and on and on.

My sister and I teamed up in treatment to help each other remember, deal with and validate our pain. It is the book I have the offer on and it is why Oprah called me to appear on her show.

I was a dancer and singer and working heavily at the time and did not want to become famous for being abused so I put things regarding that on hold.

Again, I had a remarkable grandfather who was loving and did his best to try to intervene on my behalf as much as possible.

I want to say this too:
Abuse happens to children of all kinds. I was raised in a very wealthy family. I had violin lessons, tennis lessons, dance lessons and riding lessons, etc... I grew up on a ten acre estate that was paid for and my parents never made a morgage payment in their lives.My parents were young, attractive and dressed well. My father had modeled in his youth and my mother was a known beauty. My mother never worked a day in her life. I hung out in country clubs and belonged to exclusive clubs that are there for the wealthy to belong to and to be spoiled while there. By all accounts, as a straight A student growing up how I did, I was not the "type," one thinks of as being beaten until I had belt marks and cuts on my legs and arms! It happens. Look for it. It happens to all sorts of children and if ONE person had EVER approached me and asked me if I were being abused, I would have told them and been saved. No one asked, not even tennis coaches where my little legs had obvious bruises and marks all over them! Ask a child. Get involved. Please try to intervene in an abused child's life and never assume they do not want to leave their family!

If anyone wants to talk about this subject, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks for reading and Celtic, thank you so much.

dancer

Dancer, your work with the American Pain Foundation will be useful to you and others.

I guess 2 comments to your summary autobiographical points:

*Maybe one day we will meet. But since I am not part of your past dancer, I'd rather begin on present and future interests. Your past is part of you but doesn't need to be a basis to define new fruitful friendships.

*Some of us have (and hope to) never experience much (or any) physical abuse. (Probability is always abit there later....since elderly can get beaten up too.) However some of us probably feel our own other problems/encounters with bad times, are not necessarily typically experienced by the majority of this forum.

I do feel this way at times on this forum. In the area of depression, it can become quite complex in bicultural families where differences in values (old vs. new), shift in power (children who master English language, can wield some power over parents at times, in dealing with outside world), expectations, assimilation pressures, problems of adequate bilingual language fluency and family misccommunication/gaps..can create some family minefields.

But it is....incredibly true if a family has survived with its family members who have experienced depression, the family bond is much stronger and more loving.

AT least in my family, this is true.

Dancer thank you for telling your storie and i hope you have peace and healling from those times. I also agree abose happens in all types of familie to all diffrent types of people.

ORCHID depression, it can become quite complex in bicultural families END QUOT do you think it necassarie for insider cultural experinces on behalk of the counseller to make it easier in some way? even though you were counselled at uni.

ANN327, gess the horrors of what the troops are seeing has a lot more costs (not just financial) to the countrie (any countrie)than just the finanical pressure of the war machines. Troops are just people too (i know, obviouse) despite the tranning and thats what can't be tranned out of them.

That's so sad, Anne. There are record rates of dissertion as well according to my husband, who is full career retired military. (Coast Guard and DEA too.) He said that the multable tours over there are too much for them. It used to be that you do one tour, and you knew if you survived you didn't have to go back. Now, it's up to 4 tours. He said that for the first time, because of the medical care available on the sight, we are having record numbers of vet's with limbs lost. They apparently get to them so fast when they are injured that they are taking pieces of them to help them survive so it is a new kind of veteran. It upsets him greatly to see these young men treated this way and all his friends feel the same way. My husband could still be called to serve, although he is retired, he is young enough to be called and still technically under contract. The only thing I think that has saved him is that he was Navy, and lent out to other branches, and this is not a Navy war. Still, they are starting to train the Navy for ground war. They want to help replace troups on the ground.
dancer

i think that what you have said is fair enough orchid. Not sure why some people heer would take exeption to what you have said, as far as i am concerned its stating some facts and world/cultural situasions as they are.

On second languages i got a little experinces into that as i lived in a no-english speeking countrie for a yr or so, i learned a bit of language but it was tough, tiring and i mist a lot of the sutilties of counversasion. if i had to do anything romotlie offical it was hell, i could hardlie get a bank account opend.

thanks for all you have said orchid.

Orchid,
Could you elaborate a bit on your thoughts? If you don't
feel taking the time to do that, that's fine too.
dancer

Orchid,
I see you have elaborated here on how you feel. I do not take exception to your statements regarding race. I do not "pass," for white and am an Italian in looks. No one ever has thought of me as "white," although we Italians must check the "Caucasion," box on a form. I do not like checking that box because I am treated as a minority in many places.
In the mid-west I am considered very "dark." I also hear comments about the mob, etc.... I was affected by being non-white even as a girl playing tennis in state tournaments! I was the only girl with dark hair.
Italians are a breed that is mixed. Africa invaded Italy aned so did many other countries so we run the gamet of black hair and brown eyes as I have, to light blonde hair and blue eyes as my brother has! I have a sister with red hair and hazel eyes and another sister with my hair color and eye color but darker skin! None of us have the same coloring.
People always ask me "what I am." I usually get guesses that are Italian or French, which is what I am. Still, I am asked what I am. An anglo is not, unless it is what sort of country they originated from. I am asked because of my looks.
I could go on and on about race making a difference but I just wanted to tell you that I "got it." Also, my closest friend is Chinese American.
dancer

You're right, Anne. These new injuries we are seeing from IED's (Improvised explosive devises)are tragic and unique to this war. I think they are heart breaking.

I get an opportunity from time to time to talk to those who go over because of my husband. Sometimes they have scary feelings. Some do not want to live if they are hurt by an IED and try to make deals with their friends to well...help them not have to live, "that way." It is sad to hear but they mean it! Some are so very tired of being deployed over and over that they think in ways that my husband's generation never did. We are creating such a different type of disabled vet. My husband is very concerned for this type of vet because of the repeated beatings of going over and over to the front and because the National Gaurd is going and they did not sign up for this! PTSD abounds when they are finished with one tour and he says that the councilors will do anything to get you back out there, which they did to him when he was active duty. He once had to see a psychologist and she recommended he be deployed ASAP! She basically told him to pull up his boot straps and get on with it!
Imagine what they are telling these soldiers.

dancer

Celtic and others:
Philip chooses to be a bum. He doesn't work. He doesn't do squat to help Mom around the house either. He's a slob and Mom has to hire people to help out while she has an able-bodied son who does nothing. And still she keeps coming up with excuses for him. He will take advantage of the situation as long as he can. Above and beyond the obvious free rent and room service, one has to wonder how he lives with himself. Almost no friends. No social activities. How can you be pushing 50 and not want a life with SOMETHING beyond his limited existence?

I made the mistake of opening the door to his room once (Mom won't go in there, period.) Magazines covering every inch of the floor, as high as mid-calf level. A giant pile of clothing in the corner of the room. Dirty dishes and dead food throughout the room. And this is where he spends most of his time.

He can't manipulate any other family members because no one will speak to him. When I last visited, he was so full of sh-- I wondered if he actually believed his own lies.

And Mom won't move out -- although she's been saying she wants to for 15 years. She won't do anything to throw out Philip. She won't file a legal complaint, nothing. She has said that if the rest of us file a legal complaint about Philip, she'll defend him in court.

Because the situation is so bad in her own house, she's depressed most of the time. My sister wants Mom to get on anti-depressants so maybe she'll have enough energy to do something -- anything -- but Mom won't take drugs and she'd rather be depressed and cry all the time which she does.

So you can see a little more of what the problem is.

merideathbead perhapps all that you can do is talk about phillip (to blow off some steam) as i can at this time see verie little area were anything can be done. Its bound to be frustratting and tough to see your mum go throug this and know she wont do anything to change it in any way.

good luck watching this one it just dosent sound nice at all.

how do you feel about your mum, and the other siblings missing out on there mums care and having visites?

Muslim women, other races, cultures spiritualities and religions, id love that orchid. Ther be bound to be tensions at times but well worth it for what could be learned about others life experinces.

dancer, I saw a show about the vets who have come home and are suffering from mental and physical injuries. It was heartbreaking. I could hardly watch. I honestly don't know how they carry on. They amaze me and are true soldiers in every sense of the word.

orchid and celtic, I'm reading an interesting book called The Faith Club. It's written by three women. One is a Muslim, another Christian, and the third is a Jew. I really like it so far. They gathered to write a book (after 9-11) for children to understand the similarities between the three faiths. After many meetings, they learned the book needed to be written for adults because they recognized how little they knew about one another's faiths. So far, I recommend it.

Meredith, there is something about motherhood that keeps mothers protecting their kids forever. Do you think she feels sorry for him and wants to protect him? I'm sure she wonders what he'll do without her. Kinda sad, but true.

Meredith, just as well to show your mother some newish places that she could consider for her next phase in life. Really, she has to plan for future and if the focus to her, was about her health and better place to live..then later her son, can think about his own future and place to live.

But yea, easy for us to talk here...maybe your brother is part of Internet communities which keep him in his room. No need to interact heavily with outside world?

Mom just spent 10 days at my sister's house in Connecticut, she goes home tomorrow. So it's not as if she's being abandoned by her other children.

When I visited 2 years ago, Philip had a brand new computer -- presumably that Mom bough for him -- and he hadn't connected it yet. I offered to help him with it but he came up with evasive excuses. I'm sure he still hasn't set it up.

I've sent Mom brochures for nice senior housing communities here. Both my sister and other brother have taken her to Florida to look at senior housing. She always has an excuse why she doesn't want to move there.

It's pathetic, and it's sad.

Dancer -- I was on this topic late last night with a 6am wake-up for work, so I didn't get a chance to comment on your story. I'm so sorry you had to live through that abuse. I really have no comprehension of people who have children and then hurt them like that.

Meredith,
I feel so badly when I hear of all the problems you are having with Philip! It sounds, through all your posts, that you have thought about just about everything you can to get him out of your mother's life and stop his mooching off your poor mother. It seems she cannot take much more off him!

Have you thought of Adult Protective Services? If you can show them that he is detremental to your mother in ways that they can understand, they will take action to protect your mother from him. They are good here, in Arizona, when it comes to such things.

My mother has been severely disabled for many, many years. We have used everyone from Adult Protection when a "boyfriend" moved in to leach off her trust fund to the police when she refused medical help.
There is a way, we just have to find it.
Why you try to help, remember, you are NOT to blame and this is not all your responsibility. You are trying SO hard to help your mother but make sure you inlist the help of your siblings and any friends who might be likely to try to help you with this.
This can be SO hard on someone, taking care of one's mother has it's own pitfalls and issues! Please think of yourself as much as you do your mother and take good care.
It's hard, as I said, to see you suffer so as you stress to find the answer. I'm glad you are getting it out on this forum where people really listen and care what you are going through. I can't think of a better place to be for having friends who care.
Is there a site that deals with caring for parents when they reach this stage of life? I'll bet the internet has tons of stuff on this sort of thing. SOMETHING will work, Meredith, but take good, good care of you and take a break it it starts to get to you.
You are an artist as I am.. Use your art to take you away from it now and again and being creative can cure all our stress at times, no?
Best, very best to you!
dancer

I hurt so deeply for those who were abused as children. It changes their lives. So many of you here are wonderful with the freedom to open up. I admire you. Especially Dancer because I know it causes pain to type that much with her injuries. Bless you for sharing.

My father was mentally abusive. It took me years to get rid of his voice in the back of my brain but I finally did it with the help of a good therapist.

Ladyjane...all I can say is my heart aches for what you've been through.

Thank you, Dianne. You are very kind.
Dancer

It sounds so hard, Meredith. You're right, you have your siblings in this, (except your brother!) If you hang in, an answer has to show itself, it just does! I know it looks impossible now. Change is always there and change will come and perhaps give you an answer!
There is much literature on this subject. I've seen so much. Maybe if you read about others experiences who have gone through similar things, it would trigger ideas.
I've a question: Your mother needs to go to a facility now?
and if she is gone from the home, will your brother be able to stay in her home still?
dancer

She's still mostly self-sufficient, so no, a facility is not an immediate need. She's starting to lose her memory but it hasn't progressed to the point where it's dangerous. When I spoke about senior housing for her, I was referring to ACTIVE senior housing, not an institutional setting.

Mom just spent 10 days at my sister's and the report is -- same-old same-old. Despite my sister's best efforts, Mom was depressed most of the time. If my sister mentioned anything, Mom would go to her room and cry.

Right now most of the burden is falling on my sister because of the physical proximity. My sister has always been a good daughter. Her husband and kids are 100% behind her, but she gets upset because she's with Mom on a regular basis and sees how futile everything is.

There must be some dynamic between your mother and brother. Maybe she believes he needs her? Maybe she's trying to correct something from the past? I've seen it happen before and even in my own life.

hi all, Gimster, I just saw your post and sent you an e-mail. I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner. I haven't been on the board for awhile. I'm in a very deep depressive cycle, something that always happens around the holidays and I'm trying to deal with it. Trying to keep myself distracted with holiday activities and decorating the house.

I was manic yesterday and this morning and now I'm depressed. Go figure.

I think our troops go through post traumatic stress disorder and suffer a severe form of depression while in battle. They face undeniably horrific situations every day. Things they'd wish they could forget but are there in their mind and every time they close their eyes.

The same thing an abused child undergoes when they close their eyes or an abused spouse. Or someone who has witnessed a horrific crime.

Depression has many faces. Mine hides behind many masks. I can still function among other people, make conversation, take care of the house, my pets, my husband, and whatever, all while I'm broken inside.

But, a lot gets lost in the meantime. I lose touch with people. I don't log onto forums like I usually do. I don't participate in groups like I would.

And, I'm cutting back. Including this forum. I just don't have the energy right now, to stay "UP" for the holiday and family and still make it online and join in the conversations and participate. The depression is that deep for me right now.

I want to thank you all for being here for me whenever I needed to talk. And for being so understanding and non judgmental. You welcomed me into your group. Bipolar and all. And, that meant the world to me. You have no idea how much that touched me. Truly.

Thank you.

Vicki,You don't have to "be," any certain way to get along here! You can feel what you feel and everyone will understand! Don't feel you must weat a mask here and that no one would understand what you are going through if the depression gets to you!
I have PTSD and I have symptoms at times so I understand that you may have symptoms at times and that is OKAY. You ARE accepted here WITH bipolar and that means that we must be here for you if symptoms rear their heads! I, for one, do not want to just read your posts when you are feeling "up," or faking feeling "up."
Why not talk about the depression if it's coming up? I'm sure others can relate, I can!
Having PTSD is also having depression. There are many things about the holidays that bring up trauma for me and that is not a happy thing! Still, I think I will be accepted for who I am and so will you.
I'm sorry if the depression is getting to you right now. Do you need to check with your doctor or is this something you are used to dealing with?
Feel free to talk about what depresses you about holidays if you feel like it!
I just want you to know that this member cares about you whether you are symptomatic or not!

dancer

i agree vikie its nice reading your posts as and how they are. If absences is needed for a while when your cycling dowen then so be it, we all just keep our eyes open and know you be back when and as soon as you can. Think its getting close enough to the holiday session that a few people are begining to get that holiday/blues/horror feeling.

whatever level the holidays effect you all at i hope you all get through them with as much peace and contentment as one can.
VICKIE, generallie when dose the dowen cycle brake for you? or dose it brake? am i mistaken in thinking you also have SAD?
so it be start of febuarie heer in this part of world before the light levels incress significantlie to make a diffrences to ones mood. What mounth is that for you weer you are?

Vicki, take care of yourself. You have the love and support of all of us.

Meredith, I don’t think there is anything as frustrating as knowing how to help someone you love, and not being allowed to help. My mother suffers under her junk mail addiction, but gets upset if I try to help her out of her rut.

I found a good quote to fit this situation. I think it's very wise. I try to follow it, but can’t; although I’m getting better at it with age.

Quote:

---

Living apart and at peace with myself, I came to realize more vividly the meaning of the doctrine of acceptance. To refrain from giving advice, to refrain from meddling in the affairs of others, to refrain, even though the motives be the highest, from tampering with another's way of life - so simple, yet so difficult for an active spirit. Hands off!
-- Henry Miller

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Vicki, you have so much to offer. I have always admired your writing career. Hopefully this wonderful talent you have can help carry you through your hard times. And I hope you can make your own recovery the first priority in your life.

Hannelore, thanks for the quote. The basic consensus among the "good" sibs is that Mom will go to her death being unhappy and complaining, but never having done anything to help her situation. When that happens, the house will be sold and Philip will be on the streets.

Anne,
That is a simple form of PTSD but those with PTSD that have problems are those who may, for example, hear that noise and think they are IN that situation of being shot at and react to it, by running, or using aggression or shouting, etc... They cannot get out of the memory for awhile. Others with SEVERE PTSD would be reminded, let's say, of a particular bad event and try to change their lives to recreate the situation. An example would be a woman who was abused as a child and when she is "triggered," and remembers it, she would actually go out and seek someone who was abusive and recreate the trauma again and again.

There are those with PTSD who will relive the experience in sight, sound, smell, taste, feeling and all emotions. They would hear that gun and go through an entire episode of being in the situation again and act it out right there where they are. After this, they would still not come out of it but go on with their day, their life, still living that time period with their emotions and reject anything that does not fit into that traumatic memory.

It has been documented that some women who remember, for example, being hit by something and over night, raise a bruise in the shape of that which they were hit with exactly in the same place on their bodies! They re-experience this so much that they actually can create injury marks!

Soldiers will usually get low on the floor and feel as if they are in battle, using battle language and seeing even police as "the enemy," whom they were fighting when their trauma happened. Thus, law enforcement tries not to ever get aggressive with a vet in this "flashback," mode or a person, a woman, who is in a flashback of abuse. If they don't get aggressive with the person, that person can calm down and realize they are where they are and safe. They can realize it is not the past.
PTSD can be crippling and this is why there is a fight on in the military to take it seriously and to help the returning soldiers who are diagnosed with it. It needs deep therapy. It can be taken care of but requires serious therapy.

Lecture by: (sorry,)
dancer9

Meredith,
Your poor sister! My closest friend is a psychiatrist. He often prescribes antidepressents for the elderly and says it helps them greatly with sadness and even at times, boosts their ability to use their minds! He said he has had good results from using them on the elderly.
Has your mother ever tried them? There are many different kinds and so if one was not what she responded well to, another might be. It might be a way to get her to want to do something about her happiness!
What do you think?
dancer9

I jump out of my skin and see a "picture" of one of these prior incidents, superimposed on whatever I am looking at, kinda like a movie or computer screen. It is only there for an instant. Is that PTSD? END QUOTE

i was diagnosed with PTSD, in the last lot of yrs and that was one of the symptoms. Something similaritie to the actule event brought back a replaying or more acuratlie reliving the even't, smells, sounds and emotions, even if onlie in my head.

ANN327 Have you had this cheeked out or being treated? it won't make it all better but effective treatment can help dramaticallie. Seeing you situasion again is or can be troubling enough for you Then as well having too explan (or not) to people who see you jump becouse of a rattle. Bet it be good not to have to react like that to simple safe everieday events.
good luck

Vicki, I emailed you back.
Hope and pray you are feeling better!
Blessings!

Mij, My story is so similar to yours! I too have suffered from dysthemia all of my life, although undiagnosed until my mid-20's after a severe depression. I too was hospitalized for 3 months, then booted out too early while still very suicidal (but didn't want to be)...I lasted two days before succumbing to the temptation. Thankfully that wasn't the end of my story, and I did go on to find my way through to the other side of that particularly gruesome bout of depression (PS, that was 20 years ago, and now, no matter how tough the going might get, I'm REALLY GLAD to be alive.)

Since then, I do still suffer from mild chronic depression and chronic fatigue. But have been able for the most part to learn how to manage it, which has given me a lot of freedom and meaning - the one thing I've been able to do (or am still in the progress of doing) is not allow that depression to define me, or be all that I'm about.

You've found a good place to come and just be. Many here struggle with chronic depression. So you'll find home for your heart here and some good wisdom on how to get through these tougher days.

Don't let those side effects take you somewhere dangerous - I know it's frustrating when the very people who are supposed to be helping you aren't there to help in the way you most need them to! It just makes getting through this even more brutal. Try to ride those side effects out, acknowledging that the weird feelings (including, possibly, increased suicidal feelings) are as much symptoms of the drugs as they are of the depression.

You are more than this depression. I'll be holding you in my prayers, praying that the right people will be in your life to help you through this particularly rough and dark patch right now. And trust me, Mij, the view from THIS side of that dark patch is worth the struggle through! Stay alive, and go to emergency if the side effects get too intolerable.

Mij, Welcome, I've not seen you post before!
I was so sorry to hear that depression sent you to hosptial!
Are you feeling a bit better after that?
How are you now with your depression and all that you face?
You are not alone in dealing with depression here. I'm so sorry about the hospital and that those steps were needed. I can only hope that it helped you. I will re-read your post and see if I can catch anything I might have missed. When I read that you were hospitalized I was worried about that and might have missed something.

dancer9

From Miji:

Quote:

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My insurance rep pushed the hospital doctor hard to boot me out, so he did, while I was in the middle of trying several new drugs. Bad idea. I am experiencing a lot of weird side effects.

It's hard for me to concentrate enough to express my thoughts here. I did want to say to Orchid that I didn't find your posts inflammatory(?) at all. I have a greater understanding of your language problems because my sister-in-law was born in Taiwan, but was raised in Japan. Her parents spoke Chinese at home (including her mother speaking Mandarin) and they did not speak much English - it took them many years to learn and they certainly weren't fluent. It was upsetting for the whole family when the kids were becoming fluent in Japanese, yet couldn't speak it at home. Then all the kids also learned English at school! All the kids came to the U.S. to go to school. My SIL met my brother at age 20 and her English was not that good. 35 years later, she still has trouble finding certain words, but she is definitely fluent. She has also retained her Japanese, but has lost a lot as there are no Japanese speakers around her.

She told me that she has always felt that she was a person without a native language. Her native language should have been Chinese. Japanese felt like a foreign language to her especially because of her parents. English is also a second language. It must be very odd to feel as if you don't have a native language.

Tired, can't type anymore.

---

Miji, who was responding to one of my comments in this super long topic thread. For quick reference, this is what I wrote here in this thread a few wks. ago:

Quote:

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I do feel this way at times on this forum. In the area of depression, it can become quite complex in bicultural families where differences in values (old vs. new), shift in power (children who master English language, can wield some power over parents at times, in dealing with outside world), expectations, assimilation pressures, problems of adequate bilingual language fluency and family misccommunication/gaps..can create some family minefields.

But it is....incredibly true if a family has survived with its family members who have experienced depression, the family bond is much stronger and more loving.

AT least in my family, this is true.

---

Thx for understanding Miji, the linguistic problem that happens in bilingual/multingual families particularily when there is not equal fluency/master of 1 language that parents and their children can have a detailed long dialogue.

You said that your sister-in-law feels not completely rooted to have intimate fluency with 1 native/mother tongue. I would define "intimate" language fluency, is even if a person has lost alot of their fluency, at 1 point earlier in their life, the person used to DREAM in that native language. I used to dream in only Chinese. I did not learn English until I was in kindergarten, though I was born in Canada. The ESL learning shock makes me more sensitive to all immigrants who must master English in North Amerca. My younger siblings learned both Chinese and English simultaneously before kindergarten..before their Chinese deteriorated severely once their schooling started.

Another informal indicator of native/intimate mother tongue fluency, is certain phrases, sentences, words and concepts are AUTOMATICALLY spoken by a person...WITHOUT the person having to think, translate from 1 language into another language before speaking. You speak automatically upon reflex...like sneezing or coughing.

I still do have command of some Chinese, where automatically I can speak some phrases or stumble across in horrible grammatically incorrect Chinese by thinking automatically in Chinese.... without translating in brain from English to Chinese.

Often really at that moment of speaking Chinese, I don't give a shit how grammatically incorrect I sound. I want to indicate to the other person to reach out ...to them in Chinese speech. Just any Chinese, to signal particularily to Chinese speaking recent immigrant person, that I AM also Chinese, that my parents are Chinese-speaking, that ...I understand them...inherently (and unspoken problems they might have as an immigrant) ...no matter how bad/bastardized my Chinese language has deteoriated. That signal is quite important to communicate to the other person upon initial meetings.

Part of learning a 2nd, 3rd language or retaining mother tongue, is to use it and not to be too self-conscious/afraid to speak the language just because you might sound slightly klutzy.

My parents accept 110% many decades ago that their children will assimilate so much they would lose mother tongue alot. So they are more than willing to hear lousy/broken Chinese from their own children ....and others outside the family. They did not force us to attend Chinese language school. After all, some of those schools don't ahve good teachers (alot of volunteers). I think they didn't want us to HATE our own mother tongue so they didn't want to subject us to not-so-good teaching methods of Chinese language classes. I was raised in small Ontario city where there were very few Asians-- compared to Toronto or Vancouver.

For your sister-in-law, I suspect she at least knows enough Chinese that is probably broken and basic. But she must grow to appreciate just this amount is better than nothing. She already has in her HEART, certain Chinese slang, idioms that a non-CHinese person would not have unless they are raised from babyhood in Chinese. Your SIL is like me...but I suspect her Chinese is better than mine because her parents forbade them to speak Japanese at home, when family was living in Japan.

The connection between language and depression, is quite simple or complex, depending on problem(s). As I said, for my mother, she can never really convey complex concepts in Chinese to her adult children. She needs my father to act as a translator. It's tougher resolve relationship issues with mother when there's an inadequate common shared language base. I'm sure if many people can even imagine how ensnarled and confusing a heated family argument can become if there are problems of language fluencies.

For this forum, let me give you how a lanugage fluency problem can escalate in serious family matters:
My parents rented an apartment to a recent immigrant CHinese family. Both parents worked (low income in factory & restaurant jobs) with 2 teenage children. The father is actually well-educated in China : he was full-time teacher at a technical college. Children immigrated to Canada when they were in puberty years. Daughter managed to pull herself through to eventually master English well and do well in school. Her brother, had more problems academically. He got involved in petty crime..where the police showed up at the door. I heard the mother crying upstairs... (I and some siblings were acting for our absentee landlord parents. We lived downstairs.) I am certain the parents had no clue that their son was involved in some crime nor were they alert to signals that would lead to this behaviour.. Neither parent mastered English much. They worked 12 hr. long jobs.

My family is more fortunate...my father is fluently bilingual in Chinese and English. He TAUGHT himslef English in his mid-30's. Mind-boggling when he was sole breadwinner as restaurant cook and had 6 young children. This is how valuable a parent-translator-cultural bridge is within 1 family.

HOw are/have your family members in viewed your depression? Is there anyone over the years, who has understood minimally what you are undergoing? I hope you have 1-2 good face-to-face friends who know you real well.

Other than your depression, some of us would be interested in knowing what your passions in life have been. What have excited you most and defines you best?

Don't know how the rest of you feel about what I'm about to post, but here goes. I really believe there are more mentally ill people hidding behind wellness facades than there are people actually identified as mentally ill. Those outside "private care" institutions, "county and state nursing homes" are sicker than those inside. They just play better cover up games. They're more cunning, manipulative, more crafty and better liers! Even some caregivers are less well than those they're "supposedly" keeping watch over. A lot of mental illness results from having been victimized by abuse!
So could it be, you're not mentally ill but emotionally hurt?

Could be, Bonnie. Interesting question. I know about three people who should be medicated and put away but are walking the streets to cause problems.

I met a woman patient in the psych ward several years ago - her profession? She was a psychiatric nurse who kept stealing drugs from the ward pharmacy, one or two at a time, saving them up until she had enough and then take just enough to get her admitted into hospital. She told me that it was a great way to get paid time off work...I asked her if she was afraid that she'd die, and she just laughed it off and said that after all her years in the profession, she knew just how many to take without doing actual damage.

It was hard to listen to, knowing how many people out there want help but can't get it because there aren't enough beds due to health care cutbacks!

Did you turn her in? She needs help.

I was a mouse back then. Terrified of confrontation and consequences.

I never turned her in, but there were interesting consequences to befriending her. My doctor was also her doctor, and he just assumed that that alone implied I too was playing "the game". That stunned me, because it had never occured to me that anyone wouldn't take me seriously - that was obviously before I became aware of the stigma of mental illness! For probably the first time in my life, I stood up for myself and told him this wasn't a game, this was my life and I wanted help. He ended up being an amazing doctor, whose compassion, wisdom and insights are still my most well-used life-management tools 25 years later.

But in later years, I was "blessed" with one or two genuine quack psychologists who - now I would dare to say - were in worse shape than I've ever been!

Bonnie wrote: "A lot of mental illness results from having been victimized by abuse!" As a social worker and advocate for victims, I can tell you this is absolutely the truth. I've been fortunate to have been in an academic environment where I could research this very topic, and present the research. You would not believe the number of people who are MIS diagnosed as bi-polar. Without the abuse, these people would not have a diagnosis. I was not born to be depressed and suicidal, but the abuse I endured made me so. I mean really, what is it when a 10 year old attempts suicide? That is a direct result of abuse. I also want to clarify that suicide in iteself is not a mental condition, but an extreme response to extreme abuse. Trauma changes the chemical and electrical balances in the brain FOREVER. Medications and therapy can alleviate some of the imbalance. But the trauma remains in the muscles and mind, and can result in fibromyalgia, chronic fatique, etc. I could say so much on this topic. And then there are the aspects of genetics. My father was diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. He was abused, and then he abused. My mother was sexually abused and neglected, and she is also schizophrenic. So, was I genetically pre-disposed to a mental illness? Or is it the abuse that is the common denominator? Mom now also has Alzheimer's. She acts out her childhood abuse now, more openly than before, because her inhibitions are reduced. Believe me, mental illness would be less prevalent if there was peace in our families and society! Oh, don't get me started on how depression and anxiety is diagnosed, and the CAUSES (such as abuse) are ignored. Enough said.

Dancer wrote: "more documentaries and more biographies to help people understand and find compassion." I wrote my memoir about growing up with mentally ill parents (among other topics) One of the reasons I wrote it was to open lines of communication so that we as a society can build our compassion. I will tell you this: unless you are a celebrity, such biographies do not get mass attention, so the stigmas remain intact. In this society, it is not about building compassion, it is about building consumerism and capitalism. I say that with cynacism. People talk about wanting to expand their horizons to be "all inclusive" with other but ignorance reins supreme. On the other hand, when one reveals trials and tribulations, there is another who is relieved that her story was told, that the secrets were released, and that she is not alone.

Orchid, I don't know why anyone would take exception to your knowledge and experience. I can tell you that as a social worker we were always concerned about cultural influences on a family. Many of my colleagues speak several languages in order to communicate effectively. Many learn sign language and/or Braille. One thing I learned in my studies: that women are considered a minority culture. This is relative to men, as the dominant/patriarchal majority, in terms of much of the world revolving around male gender specific values and beliefs. Consider the fact that until recently most medications were tested on men, not taking into account the very different anatomy and physiology of women. Anyway, Orchid, I found your post enlightening, and nothing to take exception to.

Regarding language, this is nothing heavy, just interesting. I am Italian, 2nd generation. I was born in the same hospital and delivered by the same doctor as my mother! Anyway, not only was Italy invaded, but many Italians went to Africa for jobs. My great-grandmother went from Sicily to Algiers in the late 1800's to get a job as a domestic. Great grandma came to Manhattan in 1906, with her 8 children and my great-grandfather, who died in the flu epidemic in 1917. My point about language is how I remember imitating my grandmother and great-grandmother speaking Italian. My grandmother would chastise me: "You're American, speaka de english." To my grandmother, assimilation meant education, education meant empowerment. Fast forward 50 years. When I tell her I am teaching myself Italian, my grandmother tells me she does not remember her mother tongue. She is over one-hundred years old. She was very sick 2 years ago. She had to enter a nursing home (but has since been returned to her own home, and lives independently!) Anyway, the morning that we were preparing to take her to the nursing home, I was alone with her. She was sitting in a chair, and I started to hear her mumbling in a certain rhythm in a language I did not understand. I got a little closer. She was saying the Lord's Prayer aloud to herself, in Italian. I sat in front of her, took her hands, and said, "Would you like to pray together." She said yes, and she started to pray with me in English. When she was well, I mentioned this to her: "Grandma, do you know you can still recite the Lord's prayer in Italian?" And she responded, "That's funny, I don't speak Italian." Anyway, the miscommunication in my family had nothing to do with language. It had to do with patriarchal hierarchies. What did us in was not so much the rampant mental illness, but the defense mechanisms used, such as denial, denial, denial.

Welcome Mij. I'm sorry to hear about your dysthmia. A close friend of mine has a story similar to yours and I see how much someone can suffer from it.

Mom is isolated because she lets herself be. The friends her age have all moved to Florida (or passed away) and she could move to senior housing and find friends if she wanted. She has never stood up for herself hardly at all. She was the obedient youngest daughter and then the obedient wife and all-suffering mother. She gave up a lot of things she wanted in order to be what she thought society wanted her to be. Unsurprisingly, she's had major depression issues that I've known about since she was in her late 30s.

Now she's just resigned herself to taking care of an adult son who refuses to take responsibility for anything, because she's his mother and her role is to suffer, right? And she's depressed 24/7 because she's unwilling to take those steps to make HER life better.

Meredith, my mother's brother was murdered when he was eleven years old. The family dynamics changed at that point because my grandmother, for some reason, put all her attention on the two remaining sons and ignored her two daughters. I believe this was when my mom's maturity growth stopped. She acts like a spoiled little girl and uses my dad as her gopher, to right all of her imagined wrongs. It's truly sad to see a 81-year old woman who has never been forced to grow up. My dad should have put a stop to it a long time ago but it's sure too late now.

Dianne,
I'm sorry to hear that your parents dsyfunction was visited upon you. I know that absent mothers so far as affection can do damage, it happened to me.

My mother lost the child before me shortly after birth so she was frightened of bonding with me! I, too, was largely ignored until she finally came out of this pattern with my brother who was born four years later.

I turned this around with my own children and paid them much attention. I felt it was important to heal in my generation that which was wrong in the one before me.

Therapy will do this.

I know you love your children as well. This stops the cycle.

dancer9

Princess Lenora,
Although I have been a performer all of my life, my education early on was Psychology. As a matter of fact, that is what my older son does.
What you say is Oh SO True.
I read a report once that said the predisposition for these illnesses are there in the child and when they experience trauma that is extreme, it "activates," that illness and cause it to surface. This seems like a possibility. There seems to be families where one child will seek treatment and other children from that same family will show the illness and attempt to live with it. The genetics show that the Mental Illness manifests itself one way, at times, in one parent, for example, and as another Mental Illness in a child. For example, the mother may be schizophrenic and the child may have severe depression or in extreme cases, even MPD!
Either way, enviroment has much to do with how the illness will manifest in the child. One way to try to stop the cycle is to get treatment for one's illness, and therapy while educating your children about mental illness, it's manifestations and how it may affect them in the future. It is also good to have a "plan," to impliment if the child should feel some symptoms coming on, such as getting to a doctor ASAP because they have been warned and educated.

I had a mother who was schizophrenic. As a child I had some therapy when my mother was DXed and I had a fear that I would "end up like her." I was taught by the doctor what to do if I felt symptoms and what could happen if one's parent suffered from an MI. This was very effective for me because when I hit depression after the birth of my first son and being under too much pressure, I knew what to do. I went directly to the doctor and to therapy right then.

My pre-dispostion to depression is under control because of early therapy and education.

In order to do this, however, education is a MUST for those families where illness manifests.

Only my opinion.

Best,
dancer9

Eagle Heart, Those life management tools are priceless, arent' they? I have been given very good ones myself from therapy!
Can you tell me, if you don't mind, did any of those help when you experienced your great loss?
Thank you,
dancer9

Dancer, some of those management tools have become so ingrained in me now that I can't really remember which ones came from where. But I can give you a few of the 'mantras' that help me through...some are well-known, some have come from various therapy sessions, some have come from right here.

- (from the Bible: Deuteronomy 30:18-20): I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life;

- (from prayer and experience) you already have everything you need to get through this; the people and resources that are in your life RIGHT NOW are there for a reason – it’s no accident that they’re traveling the same patch of road at the same time; so I need to keep my eyes, ears and heart open to their presence in my life; I’m meant to help them, be helped by them, teach them, learn from them – and always, always, always they will bring something important that I need to learn about myself, including things I don’t want to hear, but which are crucial before I can progress any farther;

- God doesn't give you more than you can handle;
- you are bigger than this;
- one day at a time;

- "wounded healer" is a huge one for me personally, the idea that we have the power to turn our pain around to help others (Henri Nouwen, my all-time favourite author, writes a lot about wounded healers);

- "go, nothing makes the soul feel better than to do something kind for someone else" (from a bookmark someone once gave me);

- and this isn’t a mantra, but that first psychiatrist took a lot of time to drill into me my key triggers (diet, sleep and stress) and how critical it was to keep all three in healthy balance. He also gave me my “road signs”, both warning signals and the map back to “home base” (my solid ground), so that if/when I ever start to feel like I’m straying off of my solid ground into precarious territory again (my main warning sign is increased mangled thinking), I know to get help immediately. These lessons/tools have probably helped me more than anything, because now I don’t wait until things get too unmanageable – I get help sooner so that there’s not as much damage to repair;

- and finally, the mantra that God gave me in prayer one very dark and scary night. It started out as the most difficult one to believe, but now it has become a much-beloved companion-along-the-way and runs through my mind constantly; I think it's finally starting to sink in enough to ripple healing into some very deep and dark places that nothing else has ever been able to reach: you are loved infinitely more than you can ever possibly imagine.

[Soon after receiving this in prayer, I read a book that someone here suggested, "Embraced by the Light", by Betty J. Eady - it was life-changing for me and helped me to be diligent about repeating that love mantra into my murky depths].

This "love mantra" could not have taken root without the example of faithful caring love shown to me by the women right here on BWS.

Awesome, Eagle Heart, Awesome

PRINCESS LEANORAS QUOTEI also want to clarify that suicide in iteself is not a mental condition, but an extreme response to extreme abuse. Trauma changes the chemical and electrical balances in the brain FOREVER......END QUOTE

AS always princess i love your take and attitude to this sunject your wisdom and insight supplies a lot more claritie and points for considerasion.

that quote i agree with but also has me carefull and rightlie so. As parents we all have potencial to hurt or harm our kids in some way, hopfullie small ways but we also have abilitie to do this in a big way.....and as you put FOREVER. Now thats something i don't wanna pass on to my child. I put certine stratiges in place and absolutes to make sure any of the results of my hurts wont go on effecting my youngsters.
At one point i decided not to have kids for this verie reason fear of passing something not good onto them. That desision broke my hart but it be one i could have readilie stuck to instead of passing on damage or harm. I don't know if all considerring mums considere this when chosing a hubbie for marrige or in deciding if their gonna be producing kids.
So i studied a lot, took personal development courses and as i say stick to certine absolutes so to not pass anything on, its hard work and i say it again this alone is hard work.....never mind all else that has to be done regarding being a mum. It involves constent examinasion and commitment to wen noticing something wrong then putting all effort into righting that thing.....it dose make me nurotick worried and at times unecassarily guiltie (can i emphasise the unessasarilie lol) the guilt or worrie that is their when nuthin wrong has been done it just feels a bit too harsh and a bit far removed from the ideal model of a mum i want to be......
so i set myself up for the imposible, know i will fail then do it all again the next day. I rather this than fullfill the quote you provided and it be on luciens sholder forever!

in short my depression or PTSD affects me but i am an adult i also got to more than insure that it dosen't affect lucien, seems like an impossible task eh! but not so impossible at the same time.

Anyone else consider how their owen types of mental illness affects their kids or even their partners or the rest of their familie, if it dose affect any of the above in what ways dose it affect them, you think??
celtic

Celtic,I have PTSD and I had continuous therapy while raising my children for 12 years. If I had not dealt with my own trauma, I don't think I would have been a very good mother. I know I was a good mother by other's telling me and because my children have become fine adults but it was done with the help of psychiatrists!

I had much to deal with and was a mother at the age of 21. I was in therapy for being abused and I stayed there, as I stated, for 12 years and with 4 doctors. I also went through the treatment program for abuse at Sierra Tucson, one of the best in the country.

Yes, I think parents "stuff," very much affects their children and that we owe it to them to deal with our "stuff," so we can be loving and open parents who are PRESENT for them! PTSD takes us back to a bad time and we need to stay HERE for them!

I'm thankful for making the choice I did daily. It was very hard, and it was, at times, dangerous for me, but it was something I needed to live my life.

dancer

Celtic, I believe there was a forum on childless women, and I think I revealed that the main reason I did not want to have children was because I did not want to visit upon them the insanity of my family. I made this decision at 15 years old. I stood in the kitchen of my schizo father's house after some kind of typical chaos. I said, "I am never going to have children." All the females, ie aunts, cousins, etc were gathered around because we were consoling my step mother after another domestic violence episode with my father. They all said to me, "You are too young to make that decision." But I knew. I knew. Then, by the time I was able to distance myself from my intensely crazy family, and by the time I put myself into counseling, by the time I was emotionally mature enough to have children, it was biologically too late. Celtic, also know that Forever is a strong word and strong concept. There are studies that show that once a brain has been altered by trauma, it never becomes the same as it was before trauma. But there are many methods to healing than ever before. Rest assurred that your conscience, your conscious efforts to raise a child with love and peace, is enough. Dr. Phil (American pop psychologist) says it takes 1000 praises to undo 1 harm to a child. Also, even a child who witnesses violence, experiences the trauma. As for your last question, it seems to be my life's work to consider how mental illness has affected my partner, the rest of my family, my brothers' children, etc. I seem to make a personal study of it. I wanted to be a psychiatrist so I could fix my family. I learned that I can only fix myself. I also have PTSD, but I have fewer and fewer triggers, and medications have changed my life and ability to cope. Prior, I did not have the ability to cope, and therefore PTSD would have affected my ability to parent. You are aware and you have self-knowledge, and that makes for a great parent!

I can be a cynical and pessimistic person. I can also be a grateful and optimistic person. I appreciate that EH has incorporated methods and messages of hope and healing into this discussion. I think one of the important elements of our generation is the collective conscious awareness to make the world a better place for future generations.

OH MAN!!! I so wish this was a private forum!!!! If I created one, would some of you come to visit?

Gimster, would the topic relate to what we are talking about here? If you have something you want to share, and you think my input would have some meaning, I would come.

Maybe Dotsie is able to make a private thread here? Where you can only get in with a password and code number. That may make it easier.

We lost that capability Hannelore when we switched over to this new forum. Sorry....and Gimster, I might visit, but THIS is my forum home. I love it here!

Oh, yes, this is my forum home too. I thought the suggestion was to make a private thread here. We can always PM.

I wish we could Princess...we had one at one time, but it is my understanding that we cannot have one now. I'll check with Dotsie and see if that is still true. It would be great if we could because there are someeeee subjects all of us would love to participate in but don't because of the privacy factor.

PM is an option, but I think (and I'm not sure about this) it would have to be done one at a time.

I wish we could too.

dancer thanks for the answere i am glade it was a success for you.

princess, i made same type of decision young too then cmented it in earlie twenties, looking back it would have been a disaster if i had concived, well i think it would have been. I had a lot more to learn through as well as clean up the messie stuff.
I got pregnant late as you know as just in the nick of time biologicallie wise and also after i had given up hope on carrieing full term.
i still learning and still sorting but hopfullie what i know, what i descovered, what i changed in myself...is enough for the wee man.

FOREVER is a big word and what i relised when i read your post back was i had desolved any responcibilite that belongs to lucien. Hear this the right way, stuff happens we get hurt, we grow up then we become reponcible as to how we live our lifes theron in. That was the process for me as it is for manie of you.
Even with the best of my best intensions and abilitie, i pass on stuff to lucien, and its his responcibilite to not live from the yuckie stuff,
pheeewww think i got a bit gripped with yuckie stuff to the point that my desiree not to pass stuff on outweight the normal process of responcibilitie and learning and concise living that even my wee boy has to go through lol. imagine lol.
i may still want it to be the easiest pass for him and hopfullie it be easie enough and without the big messie yuckies that life can vest on the young.

what you ladies are taking about s some members onlie alternitive thread to run in parrelel to any other thread being descussed with any one being able to read it. that be reallie ususfull for some of the topics descussed heer. the onlie other thing is for one to pm, all who wanted to be involved and then all othrs comment on it.....its about all i can think off via the pm system wear we all get the same information.
well jj hope that you can get back with news that what was once in relation to this can onces again be done.

it's interesting, this decision to have children, to not have children.
I know this: My mother did not want children. If I were concieved in another time, I would have possibly been an abortion. I am just pleased to be here. Jack Nickelson says the same thing as I do because apparently he would have been one too!

I'm glad my mother was stuck with having children, despite how she felt. I'm just glad to be alive that way.
dancer, off the topic of the original thread.

on the privicy issue. iv been heer little over a yr. I don't trade on-line in celtic name, i don't have a picture of myself beside my name so no one would recognise me propablie even if i had a picture beside my name. Although with a bit of digging pictures been put on in relashion to some subjects that i been iinvolved in.
I wouldn't reallie say stuff heer that be hell if it was traced back to me. Putting all bits of the stuff thats identifiable together then youd have to kinda far read to find out all the stuff, so i feel safe enough heer to start talking about the stuff thats been my childhood and my adulthood experinces.
Mind you its taken me nearlie a year to go beyond what i'd say to nearlie anyone intrested in off-line frendships, saying that i wouldn't discuss certine stuff off-line anyway but i have on heer.
I feel relativlie annonimise and just getting free enough and safe enough in feel to be more open and less garded.....thinik i am kinda luckie that when all considered i still am annonimise, i know its not the same for everione some have bussinesses, they want to protect some have frends or relatives they'd want to protect.

if more of you are actulie quite annonimise and can't be traced back to real life ..life lol. Then whats the thing stoping you saying more (this to everione and no one in particulare) i know it took me 1 yr to feel this way and i not to sure it took that long, what are your reasons?

Yes, badly right now. I was moved from my "site" and have lost touch with the parent friends that I made. I haven't even posted on this site, becasue I didn't want to bring anyone else down.

Boy, am I down. I feel like I've lost all of my friends. i just don't feel at home at the new site. Many of the parents speak a different language.

Sorry to pop in like this. I just didn't want anyone to know how I was feeling. Just thought I'd add this because as bad as it makes other members of your family feel, those of us who suffer from depression or other disorders feel guilty for making all of our friends and family feel this way.

The guilt piles on top of how you are feeling (at least for me) and it feels unsurmountable.

Speaking for me and all who go through these crisis, we don't mean to make you feel bad.

Emily in Maryland

Eagle,

I just had to respond. I'm in a big down again. This scares me. I thought it was gone from my life.

I'll keep in mind what you said about not letting depression define my life.

It sure feels bad right now, though. I'm in touch with my Dr. and my social worker.

I never ever thought I'd feel like this again. I really didn't.

Love to all who are struggling so much.

Emily in Maryland

Orchid,
I think it is important to point out that those who are abused as children have not just two choices in rearing children. One does not either become an abuser or decide to do just the opposite and perhaps, become too lax of a parent and let them get away with murder!

With good, intensive cognitive therapy, a person can over come their abuse and even become more aware of those problems people who have had "perfect childhoods," have that show. Everyone carries baggage from their childhood as no parent is perfect. After much hard work on yourself, you find yourself seeing not only your own issues but those of others as well, even those who consider themselves "well and normal."
We need to give credit to those who both work with those who are abused for the "cure," they can effect as well as those who work on themselves and become, for the most part, "cured."
This does happen. We must take the stigma out of mental illness and abuse in the home and stop using it as a blanket exuse for those who abuse. I've seen plenty of abusive parents who claim to have perfect childhoods! It starts somewhere!
Those of you who are working on yourself with therapy, medications and other self help tools, take heart, you can be "okay," and a better parent than many!
I have always heard that I am a good, even great parent. Though I was an abused child, I did the work. I was able to raise children with both civilized discipline as well as love from the deepest part of my being!
I am a proud mother, but I am also proud of myself for being a SURVIVOR of child abuse and one of the winners.

We can over come and people do every single day in treatment.

dancer 9

Thanks Orchid, for letting me get this in print here! Your post motivated me to stand up and get on this soapbox! I'm sure you did not mean that there are limited choices for abused children.

Emily,
I'm sorry for the way you are feeling and I hope you feel "at home," soon!
dancer9